Author Topic: Front brake upgrade  (Read 624 times)

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Hog Head

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on: April 08, 2021, 04:09:40 am
RE Thailand are ignoring the safety recall and given their history of shoddy service and no parts, I have given up all hope on any recall.
I see little point for trading a shitty calliper with marginal performance, for an "improved" calliper with marginal performance,  so taking my own approach to the front brake safety issue.   

I am now designing a front brake upgrade, using Brembo P4 callipers - 4 piston opposed, axial mount, type
The current design path uses a 30/34 piston calliper, for a 6.87% larger piston area than stock.  Not a big increase in area, but with EBC-HH split friction area pads (4 edges), 4 opposed pistons, and a Brembo RCS15 MC, will be a significant improvement.
Once the design is proved I personally will opt for the P4.34 calliper with 34/34 pistons using 4 pads, for a 20.16% increase in area over stock RE.

The problem is spoke clearance and I have a couple of solutions to that issue, and awaiting a calliper from the USA
Doing this from Thailand is not easy and a bit slow as I have to import the parts which takes time and doubles any cost.  The plus side is that there is a lot of CAD capability and machine work is reasonable.

Will have more in 2-3 weeks.........................
 
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YellowDuck

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Reply #1 on: April 08, 2021, 03:23:38 pm
Interested in how this turns out.  I did an identical thing on my 2006 Ducati sport classic.  Went from the 2-pot, 2-pad sliding calipers to brembo 4p-4p units.  Spoke clearance was the issue there as well.  It was a track bike so aesthetics were less important and I just converted to cast wheels.  But I wondered if shimming the disks outwards and also machining down the caliper mounts by the same amount would have done it.  Some guys shaved some material off the corner of the calipers but that solution made me nervous.



NVDucati

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Reply #2 on: April 08, 2021, 03:27:34 pm
RE Thailand are ignoring the safety recall and given their history of shoddy service and no parts, I have given up all hope on any recall.
I see little point for trading a shitty calliper with marginal performance, for an "improved" calliper with marginal performance,  so taking my own approach to the front brake safety issue.   

I am now designing a front brake upgrade, using Brembo P4 callipers - 4 piston opposed, axial mount, type
The current design path uses a 30/34 piston calliper, for a 6.87% larger piston area than stock.  Not a big increase in area, but with EBC-HH split friction area pads (4 edges), 4 opposed pistons, and a Brembo RCS15 MC, will be a significant improvement.
Once the design is proved I personally will opt for the P4.34 calliper with 34/34 pistons using 4 pads, for a 20.16% increase in area over stock RE.

The problem is spoke clearance and I have a couple of solutions to that issue, and awaiting a calliper from the USA
Doing this from Thailand is not easy and a bit slow as I have to import the parts which takes time and doubles any cost.  The plus side is that there is a lot of CAD capability and machine work is reasonable.

Will have more in 2-3 weeks.........................
 
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BlackIce619

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Reply #3 on: April 08, 2021, 04:17:46 pm
I am excited to see what you come up with. I dont know if you are familiar with this motorcycle, but someone has already done something similar and you can use it as inspiration. I know I would love to have this upgrade on mine.

https://www.returnofthecaferacers.com/royal-enfield-cafe-racer/harris-gt650/

The image below will show you the front brake setup. I would love to know how to mount something like this on stock forks  8)




_____________________

Another reference. I follow this channel quite a bit as he has very tasteful mods and discusses the brake upgrade issue. This could be something you could do instead of caliper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSAWxQXiDP0


« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 04:46:11 pm by BlackIce619 »
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wachuko

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Reply #4 on: April 08, 2021, 05:01:53 pm
Following!!!  Keep us posted!!

I once changed the caliper on a bike... a Yamaha Roadstar MidnightStar... the Yamaha R1 or R6 caliper was a bolt on part... it gave it much better braking performance for such a heavy bike, when I went to a single caliper/rotor setup.

Bike is still in the family... we call it the whore bike... I gave it to my cousin so he had something to ride... then it came back when he bought my HD Softail Slim S... then I gave it to a friend so we could go riding... he gave it back when he bought something to use with his wife... and now it is with another friend... and he too will be returning it when he gets a bike that he can use with his wife...

I modified the crap out of that bike... so it will never see a passenger seat...





« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 05:26:39 pm by wachuko »
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martinw650

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Reply #5 on: April 08, 2021, 05:04:09 pm
Marginal?
Who knew : :o


NVDucati

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Reply #6 on: April 08, 2021, 05:18:52 pm
I am excited to see what you come up with. I dont know if you are familiar with this motorcycle, but someone has already done something similar and you can use it as inspiration. I know I would love to have this upgrade on mine.

...

The image below will show you the front brake setup. I would love to know how to mount something like this on stock forks  8)


That solution can be done with the stock front forks by installing wider triple trees. Followed by different axle spacers and maybe a slightly longer axle.

_____________________

Another reference. I follow this channel quite a bit as he has very tasteful mods and discusses the brake upgrade issue. This could be something you could do instead of caliper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSAWxQXiDP0
Member: AMA
Current Rides: '14 DL1000 ADV, '06 SV650N, '93 900CBRR, '74 Ducati 750GT


Jack Straw

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Reply #7 on: April 08, 2021, 05:22:56 pm
That is a really impressive front brake install but on the stock forks?  I'd submit that if you need that brake for anything besides the looks, you'll need those forks. 

That said there's something appealing about a new $2500 front end on a $6000 bike. 8)
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Blazingatom

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Reply #8 on: April 08, 2021, 05:45:06 pm
I agree with jack, I’ve up graded the pads to HH sintered and with the stock forks I was diving like an extra from the hunt for red October even with some back brake input. Extra and thicker fork oil with preload helped but still isn’t ideal
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6504me

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Reply #9 on: April 08, 2021, 05:47:14 pm
I did it this way on my 2007 Sportster XL883... fit fine with alloy wheel but not on a buddy's wire wheel version.

With stock master cylinder dramatic increase in braking and feel. Brembo sintered pads worked well with stock disc.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 05:56:54 pm by 6504me »


BlackIce619

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Reply #10 on: April 08, 2021, 06:07:59 pm
That is a really impressive front brake install but on the stock forks?  I'd submit that if you need that brake for anything besides the looks, you'll need those forks. 

That said there's something appealing about a new $2500 front end on a $6000 bike. 8)

I truly believe EBC or Brembo pads alone will do the job. If you want to step it up a notch, then go the BREMBO RCS15 BRAKE Mastercylinder route. That should resolve all issues... and I believe it would even suffice for a track day....  8)
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Jack Straw

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Reply #11 on: April 08, 2021, 07:12:59 pm
+1 on the EBC HH sintered pads.  I just put 'em in the front and I think it's a substantial improvement.  I'll do the rear as needed.
 
I ride pretty slow these days but I appreciate predictable, strong brake response.  Serious track use might well raise questions.  Member Couchy documented plenty of track days on his Conti, it's worth searching them out for his take on track day brakes.
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viczena

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Reply #12 on: April 08, 2021, 09:39:39 pm
Has someone already tried the 15mm brembo pump?
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Hog Head

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Reply #13 on: April 09, 2021, 04:11:16 am
My problem is that RE Thailand are ignoring the corroding piston issue, and I want an opposed piston calliper with more clamping force.  Perhaps my Ducati M4 brakes have spoiled me.................

Stock calliper with EBC-HH pads is a big improvement, and with the Brembo RCS15 radial MC results in a decent, bolt on system for about 400.00.  One could always take an incremental approach, and buy the new MC and then see if you want more.  I suspect that most would be happy with the performance and value for money.
If you want more clamping force, and/or an opposed piston calliper then it is a much bigger step.

Making an axial calliper mount is not the difficult part - spoke clearance is the bigger problem.  Rotor centreline to calliper inboard face is 40mm for most common, reasonable priced, opposed piston callipers
The simple way to solve the spoke issue is to simply buy a narrow Supermoto calliper from Brembo or Discacciati but be prepared to pay.  Pretech used to make nice narrow callipers but I think that they are closing shop.

The lower budget approach requires some creative design.  The common methods to address this problem are noted above.  Methods not mentioned is a larger OD rotor to move the calliper outboard.  and a custom hub.  I have done this before using all of these methods, and once I get the calliper in my hands, I will be able to get on with it

Not RE related, but here is an approach I used on my Triumph T-120:
https://www.gt-rider.com/se-asia-motorcycling/threads/bonneville-t-120-brake-upgrade.15439/#post-100763





« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 04:31:05 am by Hog Head »
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gizzo

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Reply #14 on: April 09, 2021, 05:26:12 am
My problem is that RE Thailand are ignoring the corroding piston issue, and I want an opposed piston calliper with more clamping force.  Perhaps my Ducati M4 brakes have spoiled me.................

Stock calliper with EBC-HH pads is a big improvement, and with the Brembo RCS15 radial MC results in a decent, bolt on system for about 400.00.  One could always take an incremental approach, and buy the new MC and then see if you want more.  I suspect that most would be happy with the performance and value for money.
If you want more clamping force, and/or an opposed piston calliper then it is a much bigger step.

Making an axial calliper mount is not the difficult part - spoke clearance is the bigger problem.  Rotor centreline to calliper inboard face is 40mm for most common, reasonable priced, opposed piston callipers
The simple way to solve the spoke issue is to simply buy a narrow Supermoto calliper from Brembo or Discacciati but be prepared to pay.  Pretech used to make nice narrow callipers but I think that they are closing shop.

The lower budget approach requires some creative design.  The common methods to address this problem are noted above.  Methods not mentioned is a larger OD rotor to move the calliper outboard.  and a custom hub.  I have done this before using all of these methods, and once I get the calliper in my hands, I will be able to get on with it

Not RE related, but here is an approach I used on my Triumph T-120:
https://www.gt-rider.com/se-asia-motorcycling/threads/bonneville-t-120-brake-upgrade.15439/#post-100763

That's impressive work Mr Hog Head!

Here's my lowbrow GS500 to dr250 slowtard conversion. Bracket made with CAD (Cardboard Aided Design). Just a crappy 2 piston slider but it stops well.
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