Author Topic: OIL  (Read 424 times)

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axman88

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Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 05:30:06 pm
That looks like good stuff.  I'm not seeing any readily apparent oil analysis results but there's no mention of "high efficiency" or "high mileage" in the marketing language that would suggest it's got a lot of friction modifier chemicals in it.  https://www.exol-lubricants.com/assets/data-docs/tds-new/Optima-Sport-10W-60-M482.pdf

I'm no expert, but it seems like those high mileage oils are generally in the 30 weight and lighter viscosities.  A 60 weight is a quite heavy oil to be expecting fuel economy from.  JASO MA testing includes testing for certain friction parameters that would be a lot more difficult to home brew.  Also probably difficult to locate Exol numbers for that Optima Sport 10W-60.  Here's a little info on JASO specs:  https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/JASO_MA_JASO_MB.php

I'd still be favoring my suggestion of custom blending my own mix, by combining with a compatible lighter viscosity oil.  A home viscosity test isn't that hard to improvise.


zimmemr

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Reply #16 on: April 01, 2021, 05:32:55 pm
Excerpt from 2020 Bullet Trials Owners Manual, page 17, found at https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1881210/Royal-Enfield-Bullet-Trials-500.html?page=17#manual

"RECOMMENDED LUBRICANTS
Engine Oil Grade 15W50 API SL Engine Oil (JASO MA2)
Capacity 2.75 Ltrs. (First Fill only) 2.30 to 2.50 Ltrs. (during oil & filter element replacement in periodical maintenance"

There appears to be no mention of "synthetic" or "semi-synthetic" as such, at least in that version of the manual.

As far as that "JASO MA2" standard concerning the clutch, while I would concur that in most cases all that JASO business is just an additional costly certification hurdle that oil companies often simply choose not to pay extra for, since it serves absolutely no purpose with their lubes primarily marketed towards 4-wheelers, one should nevertheless probably best avoid any oils in unit construction motorcycles with "ENERGY CONSERVING" or really anything written in the bottom half of those API certification "Donut" labels, such as shown below:


Those "ENERGY CONSERVING" additives are most likely the sort that will definitely bork up one's unit construction clutch, as described in this thread over on the Triumph Rat Net  Forum: https://www.triumphrat.net/threads/api-label-clarity-oil.672226/.

One major issue with the use of Energy Conserving oils is that the viscosity ranges tend to be unsuitable for air cooled motorcycle use. I'd think that using a 5W30 in an engine spece'd for 15W50 would create far worse issues than clutch slip. 


Bilgemaster

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Reply #17 on: April 01, 2021, 06:23:20 pm

From what I can discern, while it may not be "optimal" for your bike, it likely wouldn't do it any lasting harm either, particularly in very warm weather or with lots of stop & go or mountain driving where it might be getting a tad "torrid". Still, if that 20 liter fleet service tub were still unopened and mine, and I had a UCE, I might try to reach out to someone with a BMW M Series car that calls for precisely that unusual and normally pricey 10W60 brew via craigslist or similar, and work out some kind of sale or trade for just what the manual prescribes. On the other hand, that thick goop might also do the trick squeezing out a couple-few thousand miles from some real clunker, or at least quiet down its unholy valve or rod knockings long enough to sell it...😈 I'm sure my ancient Durango "tow beast" with near 200,000 miles on the clock would lap up that goo and ask for more.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 07:09:00 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.

(Legal enough to pass muster if they don't look too closely in Woodbridge, Virginia, where the buses don't run at night, holidays or weekends and I'm a contender for 'Village Idiot')


mangizmo

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Reply #18 on: April 03, 2021, 10:26:15 am
  I am assuming that the sump guard/bash plate will need to come off to change the oil ?


Karl Fenn

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Reply #19 on: April 03, 2021, 06:31:00 pm
Well l just hope the oil they refill the 650 with at service with is not semi synthetic, god knows they charge enough for it, and there was poor old me thinking it was the best oil on the planet.


Richard230

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Reply #20 on: April 03, 2021, 10:36:29 pm
Well l just hope the oil they refill the 650 with at service with is not semi synthetic, god knows they charge enough for it, and there was poor old me thinking it was the best oil on the planet.

My Royal Enfield/KTM dealer uses nothing but expensive 15W-50 imported Swiss semi-synthetic oil.

My BMW dealer uses slightly less expensive semi-synthetic BMW 15W-50 oil for their "legacy" models and slightly more expensive BMW 5W-40 full-synthetic oil manufactured from natural gas for their newest models. They don't mention if it is refined from naturally-aspirated Bavarian sauerkraut, sausage and beer German farts or something else.  ;D
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


mangizmo

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Reply #21 on: April 04, 2021, 04:43:52 pm
  I am assuming that the sump guard/bash plate will need to come off to change the oil ?
No it hinges down by just removing 2 bolts


AzCal Retred

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Reply #22 on: April 04, 2021, 08:35:33 pm
About $23 for 5 quarts: 
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-Advanced-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-15W-50-5-Quart/20713647?wmlspartner=wlpa

My guess is that any major US brand of 10W-40, 15W-50, or 20W-50 is far better than whatever juice they came with from India. Certainly better than any oils from the 1940's when the Pre-Unit Bullet saw daylight, and definitely better than the 1960's oils that were about when Honda started selling machines by the tens of thousands that used common oil for the clutch, gearbox & engine. Engines that in most cases ran the cam bearing surfaces directly on the raw aluminum of the head. I have seen few Honda's that couldn't crack 50K miles with proper maintenance, and many that had over 100K.

B.W.'s recent experience with the cam followers in an Electra going belly up & eating the nose off of the cam is likely more about a possible factory defect in the follower or improper valve clearances than a direct lubrication failure. We're awash in good oils, but there's only so much even the best oil can do. Keep clean decent quality oil in your beast & change it often.

The only real slickum-voodoo juice I've ever seen actually work is the "Lucas TB Zinc Plus", which just as Bilgemaster says cuts the valve adjustments way down in the Pre-Unit Bullet, so it definitely is doing something. Sadly it probably wouldn't be a good plan for the wet clutches in the lighter-weight modern unitized construction "common oil supply" designs. But for dry-clutch designs it would likely be beneficial.
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


Richard230

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Reply #23 on: April 04, 2021, 11:10:44 pm
I just saw a YouTube ad for STP "ceramic" oil from the company that made the really thick oil "improver" years ago that you could put in your American junker and it would make it purr like a kitten. The stuff that would take 30 minutes to come out of the pint can.  ::)  I had no idea the were still around.  ???
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 11:58:05 pm by Richard230 »
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


Bilgemaster

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Reply #24 on: April 05, 2021, 12:56:55 am
About $23 for 5 quarts: 
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-Advanced-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-15W-50-5-Quart/20713647

[...Snip!...]

The only real slickum-voodoo juice I've ever seen actually work is the "Lucas TB Zinc Plus", which just as Bilgemaster says cuts the valve adjustments way down in the Pre-Unit Bullet, so it definitely is doing something. Sadly it probably wouldn't be a good plan for the wet clutches in the lighter-weight modern unitized construction "common oil supply" designs. But for dry-clutch designs it would likely be beneficial.

That Mobil1 15W50 with about 2 ounces of the Lucas TB Zinc goop is exactly what my "Iron Belly" seems to adore. About 13,000 miles into that cocktail, on Ace's suggestion here made ages ago, and still not the slightest adjustment has been necessary to my flat tappets, which I do check from time to time. So, while I would recommend it unreservedly for Iron Barrels, I cannot say it would be suitable for UCE engines. Then again, I'm not saying it wouldn't be. That Lucas stuff would  almost certainly serve as a fine assembly lube whatever the engine, which is what many use it for.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 01:01:42 am by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.

(Legal enough to pass muster if they don't look too closely in Woodbridge, Virginia, where the buses don't run at night, holidays or weekends and I'm a contender for 'Village Idiot')


Richard230

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Reply #25 on: April 05, 2021, 01:35:16 am
That Mobil1 15W50 with about 2 ounces of the Lucas TB Zinc goop is exactly what my "Iron Belly" seems to adore. About 13,000 miles into that cocktail, on Ace's suggestion here made ages ago, and still not the slightest adjustment has been necessary to my flat tappets, which I do check from time to time. So, while I would recommend it unreservedly for Iron Barrels, I cannot say it would be suitable for UCE engines. Then again, I'm not saying it wouldn't be. That Lucas stuff would  almost certainly serve as a fine assembly lube whatever the engine, which is what many use it for.

I have never heard of Lucas TB Zinc additive, although my local auto accessory store carries many of their products. I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that it is banned in California - just like a lot of other useful common chemicals that we used for years in the past. They are all deadly poisons now and just about anything that can be sold in this state must have a warning of its dangers to any resident of the state brave enough to buy it. ::)
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


Bilgemaster

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Reply #26 on: April 05, 2021, 05:00:27 am
I have never heard of Lucas TB Zinc additive, although my local auto accessory store carries many of their products. I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that it is banned in California - just like a lot of other useful common chemicals that we used for years in the past. They are all deadly poisons now and just about anything that can be sold in this state must have a warning of its dangers to any resident of the state brave enough to buy it. ::)

I just order mine online from Wallyworld, $13.94 with free delivery: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Lucas-Oil-Products-10063-Engine-Break-In-Oil-Additive-Plus-Zinc/44819568 -- enough for several oil changes.

It doesn't seem to be banned in Kalifornia, so you can go ahead and serve it as a dressing over your state's renowned Kale 🥬 (And please also note my astonishment that I do in fact have  a "kale emoji" along with an out of touch geezer's dread that my use of it could well be some bizarre kiddie shorthand that I "enjoy its use in some manner that dare not speak its name", especially when it's all lubed up and glistening with naughty-naughty zinc)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 05:25:29 am by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.

(Legal enough to pass muster if they don't look too closely in Woodbridge, Virginia, where the buses don't run at night, holidays or weekends and I'm a contender for 'Village Idiot')


Richard230

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Reply #27 on: April 05, 2021, 02:32:39 pm
 I am pretty sure that residents of the San Francisco Bay Area are not allowed to purchase anything from Wally's World as they are not unionized and therefore are banned from doing business here.   ::)

I still remember the riot at city hall in South San Francisco where I worked when years ago Walmart tried to obtain approval to open up a store in the industrial section of the city. You would have thought that the Devil was opening up a recruiting office in town.   :o  Needless to say that their application was roundly rejected by both the city's planning commission and city council.   :(
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 02:40:17 pm by Richard230 »
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #28 on: April 05, 2021, 03:43:53 pm
Readily available in the Land 'o Froots, Nutz & Flaques @ Wally Werld, Auto-Zone, Oreilly's, just waltz in & plop down your dinero. Must be good on kale?  ;D
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


Richard230

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Reply #29 on: April 05, 2021, 10:52:16 pm
Readily available in the Land 'o Froots, Nutz & Flaques @ Wally Werld, Auto-Zone, Oreilly's, just waltz in & plop down your dinero. Must be good on kale?  ;D

When I was in Air Force basic training in Texas during 1965, I was part of a group from the SF Bay Area and Hawaii. The other recruits were from Nebraska and referred to us as coming from the land of fruits and nuts. These were the same guys that told us stories of how you could have sexual fun with new born calves and beautiful sheep. (I guess the pickings were slim on the farm in those days. ;) ) Let me tell you, those were some disturbing stories.  :o We definitely kept to ourselves after that.  ::)

(Is this enough thread drift for you?  ;) )
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1