Author Topic: C5 Classic...Normal Engine Noise?  (Read 890 times)

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grey pegasus

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Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 06:01:12 am
Good luck with your dealer.

When I contacted my dealer after the noise arose he was not interested at all to investigate the issue. “Quite normal – they all have such a sound” he explained. As was not happy with such a statement and contacted the factory’s customer service. They sent their aftersales manager to deal with the problem. “Quite normal – they all have such a sound” he also explained. “No reason to care. The dealer will look for it the next time you bring in the bike for the service in 3000 km.

I decided to open the engine myself and found a disaster. The inlet rocker arm was defective due to a lack of oil supply. The reason was a defective O-ring at the oil pump output stud (the “famous” O-ring).  The story ended with exchanging the rockers, the valve and valve guides, the piston, the lifters, the oil pump, and made an oil pump and oil filter modification to get rid of the O-ring as a source of the problems.  Needless to say that I had no support at all from the dealer.  After reporting these facts to the factory the importer sent a new oil pump and rockers for free with the permission to install them myself. You may find the whole story elsewhere.

After finding some more issues and fix them the engine is running reliable now without strange sounds – and without a dealer doing the regular services.
Sometimes it is better to give the impression of incompetence by remaining silent than to finally dispel any doubts about it by talking
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Karl Fenn

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Reply #16 on: April 01, 2021, 10:50:25 am
God what's wrong with these dealers they appear useless, just want to sell a bike nothing more.


Richard230

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Reply #17 on: April 01, 2021, 02:07:20 pm
God what's wrong with these dealers they appear useless, just want to sell a bike nothing more.

Apparently "They all do that, Sir".   ::)
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


fressko

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Reply #18 on: April 01, 2021, 07:15:12 pm
At 1:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0pTz923hk0

that is normal sound. All else is not normal in a new classic 500 UCE.


suitcasejefferson

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Reply #19 on: April 03, 2021, 09:42:37 am
At 1:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0pTz923hk0

that is normal sound. All else is not normal in a new classic 500 UCE.

Actually that is not the sound I think a 500 UCE engine should make. That one is completely stock. Mine has been converted to a carburetor, and has an aftermarket exhaust. With the carburetor I am able to make it idle slower, so it has that thump thump thump sound an Enfield is supposed to make, and the aftermarket "silencer", which is anything but, makes the exhaust sound louder and deeper. I did the carb and exhaust mods shortly after buying it new in 2013, so I don't have much experience with a stock setup, other than I hated it. It could be that my louder exhaust is covering up some of that ticking noise. But it does still have a lot of mechanical noise, which any old school, long stroke, pushrod valve, air cooled single is going to have. You really can't compare them to a modern Japanese engine, which has all the charm of an electric motor (which is why I DON'T like them) and why I own both an Enfield and a Harley Sportster. This engine design is nearly 70 years old. You can't compare it to something "modern"
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martinw650

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Reply #20 on: April 03, 2021, 12:38:17 pm
My dealer is ok.
RE roadside recovery have collected the bike and it is back with them now.
Lets see.


Keef Sparrow

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Reply #21 on: April 03, 2021, 01:52:35 pm
This engine design is nearly 70 years old. You can't compare it to something "modern"
The basic motorcycle design may be over 65 years old, but the engine isn't. The current UCE engine dates from around 1995 and was a brand new design by Austrian firm AVL designed to fit straight into the old frame while still having pushrod operated valves to retain the 'old school' vibe. Although it looks old it was a completely new engine in 1995 and replaced the old 'pre-unit' (separate engine & gearbox) models with the gearchange on the 'wrong' side and external oil lines to the cylinder head. Apart from the frame itself and headlamp casquette I think there is very little left from the 1950's Bullets in the latest models.
Past: CB125-T2, T500, GT500, Speed Triple, 955i Daytona. Now: Royal Enfield Bullet Trials 500


suitcasejefferson

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Reply #22 on: April 04, 2021, 04:20:56 am
That's like saying the Harley EVO engine was a completely new engine compared to the Shovelhead. They were actually were the same engine, the EVO (for evolution) just had an aluminum top end (like the UCE) that was more oil tight due to some fairly minor design changes that had nothing to do with technology. The engine itself is still a 1954 design. The main difference between it and the Iron Barrel is the unit construction. And about all that did was require new cases (but no new technology) that put the transmission and engine in the same case. Much the same as the Harley Sportster, designed in 1957 (unit construction) and the Big Twin (non unit construction) still use the exact same technology, which dates back to the 1936 Knucklehead, with only minor changes.

The UCE still uses an ancient design, unlike the modern short stroke OHC design of the Himalayan and 650 twins. It's hydraulic valve lifters were fitted into the same place as the old engines mechanical lifters. It may have had a few minor tweaks, but the only "new technology" on the UCE was EFI, which I got rid of on mine. The Enfield 500 single is in no way a modern "retro" bike just designed to "look" old, like the Kawasaki W650 and W800 are. In fact it still uses the same frame, suspension, and rear brake as the Iron Barrel.

My former 1966 Triumph Bonneville had a unit construction engine. Nothing modern about that bike.

Also, the overall quality of the UCE models does not seem to have improved much if any over the Iron Barrel. My 2013 B5 model looks like it was hammered out by the village blacksmith. It has had it's share of issues. But the wonderful feel and sound it has more than make up for those.
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fressko

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Reply #23 on: April 04, 2021, 09:43:20 am
One of the reasons I chose the classic is that it might well be the last chance ever to buy a newly built mid cc thumper with pushrods. My first bike was a 1954 german thumper, very similar architecture with the RE, same pleistocene tech. Might as well ride a dinosaur (aka proper bike) before electric kills all ICE. While the UCE is in theory a rather "new" engine, its general architecture is totally obsolete, which I love.

p.s. we are not hijacking this thread :) , we are merely waiting for the op to come back with the conclusion. Was that noise normal after all?


Karl Fenn

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Reply #24 on: April 04, 2021, 11:23:35 am
UNC engines go back a lot further than 1995 the British were using them for decades and decades before that the enfeild engines are a continuation of these designs, many engines were unit construction this is a common British design.


Keef Sparrow

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Reply #25 on: April 04, 2021, 02:39:26 pm
That's like saying the Harley EVO engine was a completely new engine compared to the Shovelhead. They were actually were the same engine, the EVO (for evolution) just had an aluminum top end (like the UCE) that was more oil tight due to some fairly minor design changes that had nothing to do with technology. The engine itself is still a 1954 design. The main difference between it and the Iron Barrel is the unit construction. And about all that did was require new cases (but no new technology) that put the transmission and engine in the same case. The UCE still uses an ancient design, unlike the modern short stroke OHC design of the Himalayan and 650 twins. It's hydraulic valve lifters were fitted into the same place as the old engines mechanical lifters. It may have had a few minor tweaks, but the only "new technology" on the UCE was EFI
The current gearbox has 5 speeds instead of 4 as well as the gearchange being moved to the other side but you claim it's still the same transmission? I challenge you to find any parts of the 1950's engine that are interchangeable with the UCE.
Quote
The Enfield 500 single is in no way a modern "retro" bike
No one here said it was a retro.
Quote
In fact it still uses the same frame, suspension, and rear brake as the Iron Barrel.
I don't remember the Iron Barrel having a rear disc brake? Or gas shocks on the rear? And the front fork design has been changed too from the design with the spindle on the front of the fork slider to at the bottom. The box section swinging arm is completely new as well.
Past: CB125-T2, T500, GT500, Speed Triple, 955i Daytona. Now: Royal Enfield Bullet Trials 500


Richard230

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Reply #26 on: April 04, 2021, 07:27:57 pm
Also the weird snail chain tension adjusters went into the dumpster on the new models.  ;)
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


axman88

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Reply #27 on: April 05, 2021, 07:04:38 am
The UCE still uses an ancient design, unlike the modern short stroke OHC design of the Himalayan and 650 twins. It's hydraulic valve lifters were fitted into the same place as the old engines mechanical lifters. It may have had a few minor tweaks, but the only "new technology" on the UCE was EFI, which I got rid of on mine.
I would agree with you as far as to say that the closest thing to a RE Iron Barrel engine available today is the RE UCE engine.  I don't think they are going to last much longer either, with RE being their own biggest competitor to the UCE with their OHV 350 and already on track to release a new 350 Classic which is the biggest UCE model currently.  I guess that OHV engine will become the NEXT, closest modern equivalent to a 1950's moto engine.

But, I would point out that between the IB and the UCE, the oil pump and oiling system was redesigned, and the bearings, and the piston rings revised, the timing chest redesigned, the exhaust pipe mount changed, the decompression system changed, the electric start system redesigned, the clutch redesigned, and the ignition timing technology changed.  You mentioned the hydraulic lifters already, and others talked about the primary chain and the transmission.  I can't think of any parts used in common, but there must be something, maybe?

It's too bad that changing one of these UCE engines from throttle body to carburetor doesn't let one toss the ECU.  Perhaps somebody has figured out how to cut in an electronic ignition system that doesn't involve too much expense and rebuilding?

I don't remember the Iron Barrel having a rear disc brake? Or gas shocks on the rear? And the front fork design has been changed too from the design with the spindle on the front of the fork slider to at the bottom. The box section swinging arm is completely new as well.
To be fair, my UCE machine came from the factory with rear drum brake, Offset spindle forks, and round section swingarm.


Keef Sparrow

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Reply #28 on: April 05, 2021, 12:16:21 pm
To be fair, my UCE machine came from the factory with rear drum brake, Offset spindle forks, and round section swingarm.
Yes, those things were still on the bikes when the UCE engine was introduced in the 1990's, but they were all replaced on new Bullets several years ago.
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Guaire

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Reply #29 on: April 05, 2021, 02:07:51 pm
Yes, those things were still on the bikes when the UCE engine was introduced in the 1990's, but they were all replaced on new Bullets several years ago.
UCE engines in the 90's?
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