Author Topic: ABS Removal  (Read 1490 times)

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viczena

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Reply #60 on: April 07, 2021, 08:59:56 am
Aux contraire mon chere. Most of my friends sold their bikes just to get a newer one with ABS. Bikes without ABS loose value in rapid pace.

If there were an ABS retrofit package that you could install on older bikes (and get a registation, ABE..) it would sell better than any other accessory on the market.

If you dont want your ABS, just pull the fuse. And then feel like the mega tuning-king. Who shoved it to the merciless regulations.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 09:20:50 am by viczena »
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martinw650

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Reply #61 on: April 07, 2021, 10:24:28 am
And this thread shows the problem with human beings. Faced with any issue, the very cohesiveness necessary for our survival, mitigates against becoming a contented and stable emulsion.
The kingdom of false dichotomies, ruled over by the straw king.


Ove

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Reply #62 on: April 07, 2021, 10:48:07 am
Eh, do you mean we enjoy a good argument?  :)


martinw650

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Reply #63 on: April 07, 2021, 11:03:19 am
Eh, do you mean we enjoy a good argument?  :)
Yes.
If by 'good' you mean 'bad'.
And if by 'argument' you mean 'polarised shouting competition'.
And if by 'enjoy' you mean 'fulfill an obsessive need driven by obsolete biological mechanisms'.

Yay humans!  ;D


Guaire

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Reply #64 on: April 07, 2021, 02:08:50 pm
Aux contraire mon chere. Most of my friends sold their bikes just to get a newer one with ABS. Bikes without ABS loose value in rapid pace.

If there were an ABS retrofit package that you could install on older bikes (and get a registation, ABE..) it would sell better than any other accessory on the market.

If you dont want your ABS, just pull the fuse. And then feel like the mega tuning-king. Who shoved it to the merciless regulations.

That makes me think of the Honda ST1100 and the BMW K bikes. Both of them started production as non ABS. Then in later models of the same bikes, ABS was added.
  On forums of both those bikes, I have never read of anyone removing their ABS on those bikes.
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Haggis

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Reply #65 on: April 07, 2021, 03:31:18 pm
You jest, no.?
Bmw forums have whole sections on how to remove the abs systems. Especially the servo ones.
Early ones had about six or eight bleed points.
My present R1200GSA has NO abs as requested by me from the factory.
Wouldn't have abs on a bike if you paid me. Just my personal preference.
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viczena

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Reply #66 on: April 07, 2021, 04:32:59 pm
The old servo BMW is something  special. These ABS pumps are very expensive, even as a return unit. And they cost often more than the bike value. So there is a need to completely get rid of servo, ABS etc to be able to drive these old horses some more years. There is a german distributor who sells exchange units that have all the electrics but no pumps. And they seem to get the approval of the MOT (TÜV). Most off these old ABS get  broken because the owners did not change the internal brake fluids for decades and never did an electronic reset-flush with them.

Modern BMW have the same ABS as mostly everybody else, the Bosch M9. A small, compact and cheap unit. Also used in the Royal Enfields.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 05:30:32 pm by viczena »
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axman88

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Reply #67 on: April 07, 2021, 05:03:19 pm
Bikes without ABS loose value in rapid pace.

If there were an ABS retrofit package that you could install on older bikes (and get a registation, ABE..) it would sell better than any other accessory on the market.
I can't say if the depreciation issue that you claim is true where you live, and you offer no support for your statement, but I don't believe this is at all true here in the USA.  Of course, ABS is not currently required on new motorcycles in the USA, but is available as an option on many.  Cosmetic condition is a far larger component of value, here in the USA, in my opinion.  If and when ABS is required, and is recognized by insurers in the form of reduced premiums, perhaps what you say will become true.

I am dubious that a safety / legal compliance related accessory would be a big money maker here in the USA, where the top selling aftermarket items are (loud) exhausts and add-on ECU modifier gadgets.  Both of these items, incidently, often being sold with the disclaimer,   "legal ... only for racing vehicles which may never be used, registered or licensed for use upon a highway."

My point in my last posting was NOT that ABS is not generally beneficial, especially to beginners and less skilled riders.  I believe it is.  My point was that failure of ABS systems can, and likely has, caused injury and perhaps death.  Certainly there are also many cases where ABS has been beneficial, as per the links you posted.  Testimonials are not statistical evidence.  Statistical evidence supports a general conclusion, that ABS is, in general, a benefit, even in the old studies, and this is why ABS has increasingly been adopted.

I don't personally care for ABS systems, because its presence negatively affects reliability and substantially increases repair costs.  ABS braking systems contain all the elements of a conventional hydraulic system.  Master and wheel cylinders can fail, hydraulic lines can leak, and fluid can become corrupted and cause internal corrosion in both ABS and non-ABS systems.  But ABS systems also contain additional sensors, electrical wiring, connectors, pumps, valves, and electronic controller, all of which can and do fail.  All these additional failure modes exist on top of base reliability issues with a conventional hydraulic system.  If parts aren't present, they can't cause problems, and I don't need to spend money fixing them.
 
The million+ vehicles recalled for ABS system defects confirms this point:
     https://www.torquenews.com/3769/ford-recalls-600000-vehicles-keep-brakes-failing-due-sticking-valve
     https://www.carprousa.com/Hyundai-&-Kia-Fire-Risk-Recall-Expanded/a/1593
     https://www.motorsafety.org/tag/hyundai-anti-lock-brake-recall/
     https://newyork.legalexaminer.com/transportation/nissan-implements-third-recall-of-400000-vehicles-due-to-abs-issues/
     https://motorsportsnewswire.com/2020/08/10/indian-motorcycle-recall-of-certain-scout-motorcycles-equipped-with-anti-lock-brake-systems/
     https://www.consumerreports.org/recalls/harley-davidson-motorcycle-recall-brakes-abs/
     


viczena

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Reply #68 on: April 07, 2021, 05:13:12 pm
Only one time you dont fall because the ABS safes you, and you safe more money than any ABS related cost will ever be. Injuries not even counted.

ABS systems are built in billions. They are standard everyday technology now.  As long as you change the brake fluid AND reset the ABS after doing it, you will have no problems. Your bike examples (Harley/Indian) were exactly this problem.

Three of the four examples with cars are for fire hazard. Not for improper working ABS.

The last car example was for improper brake fluid. ABS systems rely on DOT4. Ford put DOT3 caps onto their brake reservoirs.

You can always get a recall. Even for a simple and stupid thing like a Royal Enfield brake caliper. With "Bybre" written on it. I never had any issue with any vehicle with original Brembo calipers. In salt, bad weather, off road. From light offroad bike to 600kg V8 bike.

ABS is good for every motorcycle rider,  especially for the "experienced" one. The novices are over-cautious.

Novices often look for good weather and good road condition, the experienced one drives whenever and wherever he wants.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 05:38:11 pm by viczena »
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axman88

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Reply #69 on: April 07, 2021, 06:31:34 pm
Three of the four examples with cars are for fire hazard. Not for improper working ABS.
The report says:  "problems with the antilock brake system, which may result in an electrical short and vehicle fire."  A major component catching fire is improper working.  If the ABS controller catches fire, that is a reliability issue that CAN occur with an ABS equipped vehicle, that CANNOT occur if this controller is not present on a non ABS equipped vehicle.

Ignoring statistical data from focused studies on the subject changes nothing.  Ignoring market realities and legislative environments in countries other than your own, changes nothing.  You think ABS is good and are willing to pay for it and have expressed your opinion.  Others disagree, for various reasons, some of which are well documented.

But none of this is really relevant, the Original Poster asked about removing an ABS system, something which has been done many times, by many people, to their satisfaction.  Ignoring those reports, forum threads and videos, to express your personal opinions, does not address the OP's question.  Neither do my most recent posts, although my first was fairly squarely to the point.


viczena

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Reply #70 on: April 07, 2021, 06:36:07 pm
There was a leak of brake fluid around the ABS that ignited fire over time by eating up the insulation of wires. So what? Can happen with every brake line.

I do not ignore your reports. I am just reading them. And understand them.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 06:38:21 pm by viczena »
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suitcasejefferson

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Reply #71 on: April 08, 2021, 07:09:28 am
I have made my opinion clear. I am not the only one with the same opinion. Here is a comment I found on a review of Honda's newest Goldwing. It echo's my feelings exactly.

"If you are looking for a MOTORCYCLE, you need to look to the past. If you are looking for a COMPUTER that just happens to have wheels on it, the Honda probably has what you are looking for. But why would you want it? Motorcycles are ceasing to exist right before our eyes, and nobody is noticing. It started with EFI, then Cat Con exhausts, then ABS, then all manner of electronic "rider aids" (I don't need no God damn rider aids) now cruise control (not a throttle lock, but actual computerized cruise control) Next will come some kind of computerized gyroscopic system that will not allow the bike to fall over. That already exists, it was used in the fortunately ill fated Segway. Then will come brakes that apply themselves if the computer senses something ahead, and steering that will automatically move the bike in a different direction if a COMPUTER decides evasive action is required. Then there will be a touch screen or voice recognition computer on the bike. When you get on, you will either type in an address or use voice control to enter the address, and the bike will take you there, without a single control input from the passenger. Notice I said passenger. That's because riders will no longer exist. Their skills and experience will no longer be needed, and will fade away. You will no longer be able to make decisions or take risks. In short, you will no longer be a human being. You will be the slave of a computer"
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viczena

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Reply #72 on: April 08, 2021, 08:03:19 am
You are talking about a Honda Goldwing. The one bike in which EVERY gadget possible was built in. Since the beginning. Thats what you are buying. Intentionally.

If you dont want a bike with every gadget possible, buy something else.

And as I remember the Goldwing is neither self driving nor self stabilizing. And it still needs somebody who can drive a heavy cruiser. So what is your argument? Lots of gadgets (necessary or not)?

And the article even rants about gadget that "will" somedays be available and dont even exist. Its gadget fiction.

I understand why you like this article. It declares problems which are not existent.

On the other hand a blocking front wheel is a real and  existing problem for bikers. But that does not matter to you.

Your opinion is clear. "I dont want a selfdriving bike, therefore I am disabling my ABS". You are a hero.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 08:10:21 am by viczena »
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johno

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Reply #73 on: April 08, 2021, 08:50:02 am
Well thats not true is it?
I own 2 1984 GL1200's they do not have any gadgets apart from electronic ignition, both have carbs, no ABS in sight, they are simple to work on and will last forever (frame rot excepted!)
I wouldn't touch a GL1500 or 1800 with a barge pole...
of the other bikes I own the NT700va (Deauville) has some electronic gadgets (including ABS) and I hate it, complicated, heavy and difficult and expensive to diagnose any issues. soon to be rid of it.
The same number of motorcyclists sadly get killed every year whether riding a bike with ABS or not, bikes still fall over and get hit by other vehicles. Hitting another vehicle where you say ABS will stop you (bullshit) Is only one accident format and if you ride with your, the bikes and road limits rare, if you ride like an racer, ABS won't save you.
 So is really a 'can't do without' device, I have managed for 40 years and am sure many others have. Just because you don't have a choice it is now in your mindset that it must be a good thing. which is why I am confused into why you bought an Enfield...............
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viczena

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Reply #74 on: April 08, 2021, 09:07:04 am
OK, the GL1200 started with a big engine. That was gadget enough 40 years ago. But shortly after they started their gadget contest.

ABS doesnt protect you from every possible accident. Just from one special occasion: Your front wheel blocks and you dont loose it within 2 sec. After that you fall.

That situation can happen quiet common. With everybody. Novice or expert.  And it is not easy to train without ABS. At least if you dont have a large pocket full of money.

If you want to drive without ABS: Its your life. I drive 20.0000 km per year and have seen many things go sideways in the last 30 years. By "experienced" driver who thought they already know everything. Or just by idiots driving around. Thinking it is a good idea to make a turn in front of a driving motorcycle.

And I am not interested in driving a racer.

Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijJouHoDjQU

Especially after 1:18. These are not racers at all. Just standard everyday driving situations. The non-ABS bike falls, the ABS bike moves on. 60km/h, wet double laned street. Light rain.

Here is another beauty. Front brake locks, 2secs later he falls:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xusq1ohkOGI&t=6s

Maybe another "No need ABS, I Big Kahuna".
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 09:35:05 am by viczena »
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