Author Topic: AC regulator, for headlight.  (Read 429 times)

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AzCal Retred

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Reply #15 on: March 28, 2021, 10:18:06 pm
MAYBE here?  http://www.enfield.20m.com/bullet1.htm

Let us know what you find. - ACR -
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


Adrian II

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Reply #16 on: March 29, 2021, 11:57:19 am
Elextrex World in the UK sell a replacement 12V. 120W alternator kit for the Ducati Singles which includes a self-generating CDI ignition,  this is for the wide case singles, but I think they make one for the narrow cases singles too.

https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=ducati&PN=STK-164.html

The one advantage I can see over your home-brew conversion is increased generator output.

A similar set-up (with AC headlamp) actually exists for some Indian home market 350 RE Bullets, mostly the kickstart AVL Machismo and Thunderbird models, the factory adapted the Lucas-copy alternator to have one power coil replaced by a CDI charging coil, the rest of the alternator acts like their normal 4 wire iron barrel Bullet version with an AC headlight supply. It worked quite well, though it's not a direct replacement for iron barrel Bullet alternators as the rotor fixing arrangement is different.

A.

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AzCal Retred

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Reply #17 on: March 29, 2021, 03:10:38 pm
Adrian II - but it can be adapted through some creative drilling on the stator? The rotor taper is the same? This would eliminate the gear lash slop and actually be a beneficial upgrade.
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


Adrian II

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Reply #18 on: March 29, 2021, 09:23:32 pm
The stator mounts are the same three studs as on most Indian iron barrel and Redditch alternator Bullets.

The drive side crankshaft on these is NOT tapered, it's a 3/4" diameter plain shaft, same (almost) as on the iron barrel Bullets, the rotor just slides on (and off).

So what's the problem?

There's no rotor key or keyway for the rotor cut into the drive shaft. Instead there's a keyway cut further back along the shaft and the alloy spacer that sits between the drive sprocket and the rotor is keyed to the crankshaft. An extension to the spacer acts as a reluctor arm for the CDI trigger, and the spacer has a couple of extensions on the alternator side, these mate in special slots in the rotor, which is held (hopefully firmly) in place by traditional rotor nut and spring washer on the end of the shaft.

What you MIGHT be able to do is cut a keyway in the CDI rotor to mate with the normal iron barrel Bullet rotor key, but it would have to be positioned correctly to get the reluctor arm timing correct.

A.
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Nadroj

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Reply #19 on: March 30, 2021, 10:29:08 am
What does the reluctor arm interact with?


AzCal Retred

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Reply #20 on: March 30, 2021, 04:15:47 pm
Good definition here:

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2018/04/19/installation-and-removal-tips-for-ls-engine-24x-or-58x-reluctor-wheels/
What is a Reluctor wheel?
Many crankshafts feature a press-fit toothed timing wheel, referred to as a reluctor wheel. A magnet sensor mounted stationary in the block is aligned to the wheel and picks up crankshaft position. ... This toothed wheel is used by the crankshaft position sensor for ignition timing.



A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


Adrian II

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Reply #21 on: March 30, 2021, 04:49:28 pm
What does the reluctor arm interact with?

One of these, it mounts on the stator studs. If necessary, right click on the picture to see it.

A.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-X-NEW-PICK-UP-PULSAR-COIL-ELECTRA-AVL-SUITABLE-FOR-ROYAL-ENFIELD-pummy/373406510299?hash=item56f0c32cdb:g:gzIAAOSwZZ5aweG9



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Nadroj

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Reply #22 on: March 31, 2021, 10:14:45 am
Can the pickup assembly be moved for timing adjustment?


Adrian II

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Reply #23 on: March 31, 2021, 10:45:35 am
I think the only adjustment possible on these (at least out of the box) is a little wiggle room for setting the correct air gap for the reluctor arm and the pulsar coil. You could try making a custom pulsar coil bracket with elongated slots, or an adjustable reluctor arm/spacer.

AFAIK this set-up actually works quite well on all the bikes it was fitted to. It's a shame we didnt get this on the 500 AVL Classic and the Electra-X, but I suspect that with only 5 of the original 6 alternator coils available for lighting/battery charging purposes, there may not have been enough output left to keep a battery charged up enough to power an electric starter as well.

A.
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Nadroj

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Reply #24 on: March 31, 2021, 11:14:48 am
This possibly could be usable on a Lucas equipped '60s British motorbike, suitably modified, if it fits.
I've been using a Boyer-Bransden with no battery (eliminator type circuit with capacitor), but disappointingly at the low voltages available at kickstart speed, the retard action doesn't work - just when it's most needed.
A CDI as for the Bullet models (some of them) is to be kept in mind. B-B is not CDI, rather it's a transistorised elec ign.
It's fun to discover alternative uses for components.
Thanks, RE India.  ;)

There does seem to be a big range of Enfield models and variations over the years, a bit confusing sometimes.


Adrian II

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Reply #25 on: March 31, 2021, 01:21:35 pm
As I mentioned, that stator studs are in the same position, and the Indian/Lucas stators and rotors are mechanically interchangeable. The CDI and points ignition Bullet main shafts are the same diameter, so it's just a question of cutting a reluctor keyway in whatever main shaft you've got if you want to fit the CDI rotor, assuming there's a similar spacer between the engine sprocket and the rotor.

CDI kits for old (alternator fitted) British bikes ARE available, it's just that the versions with lighting coils included have a pretty dismal output. The Ducati kit I linked to seems to do much better in that regard.

Boyer Bransden ignitions were notorious for going full advance at low voltage, some of their employees left to found Pazon Ignitions, which sells a similar after-market TCI conversion, except that they're better made AND their TCI boxes are designed to handle lower starting voltages. BB belatedly woke up to this fact, and their Mk4 ignitions now claim to be better in this respect.

Quote
There does seem to be a big range of Enfield models and variations over the years, a bit confusing sometimes.

If we ignore all the UK-built stuff, for years the Indian RE factory just produced the old 350 as far as the Bullet was concerned, then came the 500, then the electric start models, then the lean burn engines, then the 5 speed gearboxes, sorry, was that home market or export version? Points, CDI or TCI igntion? Then the UCE/EFI models... Just for fun I build anglo-indian RE bitsas with Indian Bullet engines and gearboxes in old UK-built RE frames (they bolt straight in), hours of joy just planning which bits to use. :)

Somewhere I posted a link to the RE Indian Retired Models (Pre UCE/EFI) parts book on-line, if you ever got insomnia I'd recommend it!

A.



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Nadroj

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Reply #26 on: April 01, 2021, 01:54:41 am
Good.
I found the contact breaker housing useful years ago, when I used the RE part to mount a Dyna-S ignition made for a Ducati twin to my Panther 600cc single.
Happily, the Ducati ignition baseplate has the same diameter as a Lucas/Enfield one.


Adrian II

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Reply #27 on: April 01, 2021, 11:16:50 am
Now THERE's a bit of lateral thinking!  :)  It also rather suggests that that Ducati CDI/120W alternator kit could be made to work on a Bullet with the rotor and stator suitably modified.

A.
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Nadroj

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Reply #28 on: April 01, 2021, 11:55:12 am
They say that anything is possible.
But maybe not always practical.
It was a huge project to change to electronic ignition on the Panther, done because I'd had it with unreliable old magnetos.
The modification required a change to a 12V belt driven alternator, custom rotating magnet to trigger the Dyna-S, and lots more.
Results have been very good.