Author Topic: Cam Check Cam Card  (Read 781 times)

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TrianglePete

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on: March 17, 2021, 03:17:21 pm
I set up my block/fixture to make a cam card for Bill.

If anyone needs a cam checked and cam card made, let me know.

Please only professionally ground cams.

Peter


Karl Fenn

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Reply #1 on: March 18, 2021, 03:09:53 pm
Can you tell me what the cam card is, l presume it's something related to certain tolerances judging by your many dial gauges just not familiar l looks highly specialised.


ace.cafe

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Reply #2 on: March 18, 2021, 03:55:08 pm
It measures the cam profile in the engine. This allows an accurate representaion of cam events and lift profile with respect to crankshaft position and TDC.

It is important to know this information for accurate engine building.
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TrianglePete

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Reply #3 on: March 18, 2021, 04:02:42 pm
Karl,

      It is a bench top, real world way of checking cam specs. Duration, lift, lobe separation and install.

In America we check at 0.050 lift for the duration  no BS .   When buying an aftermarket cam you should request

a cam card before purchase to make certain it will do what you are looking for.  The cam is the brains of the

engine .   Any questions you can reach me at my e-mail address.


Karl Fenn

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Reply #4 on: March 18, 2021, 04:56:28 pm
Oh l see l wondered what it was, l built a couple of engines over the decades but can't be sure l did it right even though they ran, my last one l send to a pro firm, they did work on the crank and gearbox bearings sent the whole engine minus the top end it came back ready to put in bike in wooden box they did a brilliant job, my feeling is these jobs have to be done correctly for any sense of longevity, well thanks for letting me know, it did appear to be a specialised field  but l was uncertain of what a came card was, thank you.


Taurim

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Reply #5 on: March 19, 2021, 12:29:41 am
Hi Peter,

Did you have the card for the stock CGT 535 cams ? (probably the same cams installed in all 500 EFI engines)

I have the data for Hitchcocks performance cams currently installed in my 535 :

Copy/Paste :

EFI Performance Camshaft Kit 90350
The following is the approximate timing for the above camshafts set with 1mm clearance:
(These figures are for information only as the EFI engines run hydraulic lifters so these figures cannot be checked in the conventional way).

Inlet opens 30° BTDC Exhaust opens 70° BBDC
Inlet closes 70° ABDC Exhaust closes 35° ATDC
 Inlet valve lift 11.3mm Exhaust valve lift 10.2mm


TrianglePete

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Reply #6 on: March 19, 2021, 02:58:02 pm
Taurim,

      I did a card for stock many years ago..  The 350,500,535 UCE engines all had the same cam. What I

remember is the stock duration 195 intake 198 exhaust   Way too small for 500,535.  on modern roads.

      The Brits like to measure their cams so they look bigger..  We measure @0.050   more realistic

No problem measuring with used lifters that have been filled with oil. they don't give enough to change things.

      How about Hitchcocks specs @0.050  for comparison purposes .


Taurim

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Reply #7 on: March 19, 2021, 08:35:51 pm
0.050 inch is 1.27mm

Hitchcocks says it is measured with "1mm clearance". So probably slightly longer opening values if I'm right ?


TrianglePete

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Reply #8 on: March 19, 2021, 09:15:04 pm
Wow    280 degree intake duration
           285 degrees exhaust duration

   I would like to measure at 0.050 to see what they really are.


Taurim

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Reply #9 on: March 19, 2021, 11:28:00 pm
At least I can show how it looks like compared to stock :


(HM = Hitchcocks Motorcycles)



Aus.GT

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Reply #10 on: March 20, 2021, 08:03:21 am
I have measured the Hitchcocks Camshafts and the duration Specs @ 0.050 are 
Inlet      245.29 degrees L/C  109.35,  Opening 13.3 BTDC  Closing 51.99 ABDC  Lift 0.360"
Exhaust 244.23 degrees L/C  112.86   Opening 55.00 BBDC Closing 9.29 ATDC   Lift 0.323"
These are at the camshafts.
Hope that helps
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2014 Continental GT
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viczena

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Reply #11 on: March 20, 2021, 11:01:51 am
The hitchcock has an Overlap of 23.30 degrees and has in Intake Duration of 245.30 degrees. The Exhaust Duration is 245.00 degrees. Your Lobe Separation Angle is 110.93 degrees. The Inlet Cam has an Installed Centerline of 109.35 degrees ATDC. The exhaust cam has an Installed Centerline of 112.50 degrees BTDC.

Sounds much more realistic than an overlap of 65°. According to the data in the manual.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 11:06:48 am by viczena »
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ace.cafe

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Reply #12 on: March 20, 2021, 02:42:01 pm
Just in case anyone is wondering why the cams are measured at .040" or .050" lift, there are two main reasons.

One is that it is not as easy to get an exact measurement for the precise timing of seat contact. There have been various selections of specs to measure at, including the traditional .012" lift spec from Enfield, and some other makers use a .004" lift spec.

Second, the .040" or .050" lift spec relates to the opening of the valve, where it unshrouds the seat and flow starts to get flowing better. So, using that sort of spec gives an indication of the period of opening where there is more meaningful flow going on.

However, I find it useful to also know the actual seat timing specs for a few reasons, so I still like to see seat timing specs in addition to any of the other specs provided.
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Bullet Whisperer

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Reply #13 on: March 20, 2021, 03:06:01 pm
Just in case anyone is wondering why the cams are measured at .040" or .050" lift, there are two main reasons.

One is that it is not as easy to get an exact measurement for the precise timing of seat contact. There have been various selections of specs to measure at, including the traditional .012" lift spec from Enfield, and some other makers use a .004" lift spec.

Second, the .040" or .050" lift spec relates to the opening of the valve, where it unshrouds the seat and flow starts to get flowing better. So, using that sort of spec gives an indication of the period of opening where there is more meaningful flow going on.

However, I find it useful to also know the actual seat timing specs for a few reasons, so I still like to see seat timing specs in addition to any of the other specs provided.
I agree with Ace and there is another point to bear in mind, if using 0.040" or 0.050" clearance, or other large figures when checking timings - valve to piston clearance - what might appear to work timing wise at such figures might put a valve too close to the piston when a running clearance [or lack of] is set. Numbers are great, but keeping fast moving metal parts away from each other is of more interest to me.
 B.W.


TrianglePete

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Reply #14 on: March 20, 2021, 03:20:59 pm
The SAE standard is @0.006

   In the American cam aftermarket we all us 0.050  it leaves out the fancy ramps and  BS  sales pitch.

The cams pictured above    They look like pre- UCE cams   where is the de-comp slot ect ??

A 245 degree cam is a race grind    We use 250 degree range in circle track racing.