Author Topic: Iron Barrel 350 project  (Read 468 times)

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Bilgemaster

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Reply #15 on: March 14, 2021, 08:01:01 pm
Like Paul our "Bullet Whisperer" said, all things being more or less stock, about 5 or 10 mph (about 8 to 10 kmh) less top speed compared to a comparably standard 500 Bullet might be expected, along with a little less "Oomph!". But there's still plenty of fun to have with a 350 out there on those nice little "B", "C" and other roads out there all around Ballarat, where it wouldn't need to struggle (See: https://www.travelvictoria.com.au/victoria/roads/).

By the way, there's also a town named Ballarat in California, named by one of your countryman. All but a ghost town now, it was once a fair-sized center for mining in the area. It's had a peculiar history, including the Manson Family shacking up there for a bit.


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(Legal enough to pass muster if they don't look too closely in Woodbridge, Virginia, where the buses don't run at night, holidays or weekends and I'm a contender for 'Village Idiot')


AzCal Retred

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Reply #16 on: March 15, 2021, 04:52:53 am
Paul W's Bullet sounded pretty crisp to me, the 5 speed really was working well to keep him "on the cam". You can hustle along smartly on 23-25 HP with proper ratios. My old bone-stock 1978? XT250 Yamaha ran 65-70 pretty reliably on flat ground, no headwind. The big gap between 3rd & 4th on the 4 speed drops my 500 I.B. noticeably "off the cam". The 5 speed has better ratios to work with. These engines seem capable of 6000 RPM, maybe not as a steady diet, but Paul W had room for more. For max speed the gearing needs put the max HP where it can balance the drag. Many have gone 100 MPH on 30 HP, proper gearing & rider blended into the paint.

My speedometer is temperature dependent - at under 55F keeping up with local traffic I show 60-65 MPH. A bit later in the day at 65F, the same traffic is 50-55 MPH...Obviously I am much speedier in the AM! Or the grease dragging the magnetic cup around in the speedo is grippier when cold...  ;D ;D ;D   In any event, the Bullet speedo is more entertaining than informative.

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Paul W

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Reply #17 on: March 15, 2021, 08:14:54 am
My normal cruising speed on the 350 is about 55 max, mainly because I enjoy that speed and I don’t often ride on the motorway. I use the bike mainly for backroad exploration, occasionally with some off tarmac stuff. I’ve no desire to get any more speed out of it. I’ve  already found the natural rev limit; it needs stronger valve springs....but I doubt I’ll get round to that anytime soon. It does the job as it is.

If I want a faster run I’ll use my 1991 CB750 Nighthawk, although since I bought the Bullet the Honda has has very little use...the battery for that sits on my workbench.
Paul W.


viczena

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Reply #18 on: March 15, 2021, 08:19:13 am
Standard Indian 350 vs standard Indian 500? Subtract about 5 - 10 mph for the 350.
 B.W.

The 350 and the 500 have the same cams . So no wonder why the 500 does not produce more.
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Seipgam

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Reply #19 on: March 15, 2021, 09:28:23 am
Bilgemaster,
You have way too much time on your hands.

Geoff.
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Adrian II

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Reply #20 on: March 15, 2021, 12:43:24 pm
The 350 and the 500 have the same cams . So no wonder why the 500 does not produce more.

Nothing to do with the original 500 iron barrel Bullet being a mid 1950's upgrade of a late 1940s design, then? I think the best preforming Redditch 500 singles (apart from the competition models) were the Big Head Bullets from 1959-61 which claimed 27BHP. That was using the "S" cams, which were the same as the 350 Bullet used, and why not ON A TOURING BIKE? For scrambles and racing use they had the "R" cams. Indian iron barrel cams are similar to the "S" as the engine is just a continuation of the Redditch design.

Hitchcocks' used to offer different performance cams of their own for the 350 and 500, maybe they still do!

Getting back to the use of stock Bullets under Australian conditions, Winifred Wells managed to cross Australia from West to East and back on her 350 seventy years ago, and both bike and rider managed perfectly well.

A.

 
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


ace.cafe

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Reply #21 on: March 15, 2021, 01:33:02 pm
The 350 and the 500 have the same cams . So no wonder why the 500 does not produce more.

But the 500 has larger inlet and exhaust tracts, and larger valves that the 350. This means that even though both 350 and 500 have the same cam specs, the 500 has more air flow in/out of the engine during the time that the valves are open.
The cams may be the same, but the engine breathing is certainly not the same.

Cams are only part of the equation.
And BTW, those cams have 280° duration, which is not a short cam duration by any definition. They have plenty of duration.

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Paul W

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Reply #22 on: March 15, 2021, 04:38:09 pm
I've read various discussions about 'S' and 'R' cams, here and elsewhere.

Does 'S' stand for standard and 'R' for racing? If so, are there any other factory cams?
Paul W.


Karl Fenn

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Reply #23 on: March 27, 2021, 04:03:55 pm
I have been toying with the idea of a 350 for the odd Sumer day out plotting the county lanes, l don't expect it to be any faster than a C15 but l will only ride it at 45, l had iron barrels in the 70s they never cooked up, never had it happen, just a trip in the past where not much traffic goes these days.


ddavidv

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Reply #24 on: March 28, 2021, 12:17:52 pm
Having had both 500 and 350 versions in my garage, I can say the 350 is a nice, cheeky around town bike. Where it fails is out in the country. Where I live we have quite a few steep hills that will slow a 500. The 350 really didn't like them. Not that it can't climb them, it just requires a lot more throttle, noise and downshifting. Kind of reminded me of my dad's old Honda CT90.  ;D

If you live where things are mostly level or nicely undulating, no real problem.
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Paul W

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Reply #25 on: March 28, 2021, 01:11:40 pm
The "rideability" of my 350 was transformed by fitting a 5 speed gearbox. No more big gaps in gear ratios means it will go up hills very well. I'm now often held up by traffic ahead rather than holding up traffic behind.
Paul W.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #26 on: March 28, 2021, 06:00:27 pm
" l had iron barrels in the 70s they never cooked up, never had it happen " - Karl -

The cooling delta between the iron barrel & alloy barrels is large. The Iron Barrel stays cool for a couple minutes before beginning to warm, long after the head is warm. Quite a thermal lag. The good news is that it retains heat on a cool day and requires less or no choke to restart. If air temp is less than 75F it probably won't ever matter much. Here at 110F it's a lifesaver.
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.