Author Topic: Has anyone done a C5 carb conversion  (Read 2037 times)

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viczena

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Reply #15 on: March 10, 2021, 06:57:00 pm
When TPS is fixed, the rpm just moves one column up and down in the injector map. And why would you advance timing for TPS =0?

By using a voltage divider you could select another column. And maybe this would lead to advance. How much and in which rpms? Has to be tested. But you still have to select a column with less advance on lower rpm  to be able to use the kickstarter.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 07:00:46 pm by viczena »
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TrianglePete

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Reply #16 on: March 10, 2021, 07:34:21 pm
I still say put 500 cams in and power commander mapped to 500cc . Enjoy !!


AzCal Retred

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Reply #17 on: March 10, 2021, 07:39:45 pm
" How much and in which rpms? Has to be tested. But you still have to select a column with less advance on lower rpm  to be able to use the kickstarter. "

If Hitchcocks has a dynamometer, it is a logical assumption to speculate that they also have a timing light.
It is unreasonable to assume that a business devoted to retail market sales operating in a litigious environment hasn't fully tested & documented the claims it's making for it's retail market product.
They have access to all the same tuning software as yourself, and maybe more.
They make & sell performance UCE parts, have a dyno, and undoubtedly test to failure or close to it.
You state repeatedly that a carb makes 20% less than an EFI. Hi's says they can equal or exceed the base EFI's performance. Your whole premise is that Hitchcocks is either deceptive or incompetent, that your knowledge is the sum total of what is known about the UCE ECU function.

Lets see some real data here & stop the back & forth. Take your TPS and read it for span resistance. Plug in a variable resistor covering the same range, park it at a known value and use your timing light to see what actually happens as the rev's change. Prove what you think you know. It is unlikely the engine can start easily & put out useful power with no ignition advance as RPM changes. Something is going on - it can be determined empirically. My experience with pre-programmed PLC's is that there can be a lot of non-obvious associations going on, some you only find by going hunting. Otherwise you are asking me to believe that H's has stumbled on a miraculous way to get full power out of an engine at 8 degrees total advance at 6000+ RPM. If you are unwilling to prove what you think you know, maybe TrianglePete can step in here.

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/amal-carburettor-conversion-kit-efi-models/22197

xxx
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TrianglePete

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Reply #18 on: March 10, 2021, 08:13:50 pm
I don't want to get down on Hitchcocks , they run the forum for us to kibits...

You can not make near full power with only 8 degrees of timing.  I did not read the claims.

As a grand dad I rather make performance with the controls in tact.  If you have a stock bike and use oxygenated

fuel please try The Fin intake manifold  just switch and get better drive ability and a slight gain in power.

What ever we do you can't overcome lack of cam duration.   You can upgrade without taking the tank or valve cover

off.  You don't even have to change the oil !!!


viczena

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Reply #19 on: March 10, 2021, 08:19:12 pm
What cams would you suggest for the 500?

And what is a FIN intake?
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TrianglePete

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Reply #20 on: March 10, 2021, 08:37:06 pm
It is an intake with a vortex generator installed  it works best with Reg. E-10 or E-15

The cams I sell on e-bay under US spec.


TrianglePete

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Reply #21 on: March 10, 2021, 08:39:22 pm
The Fin intake


viczena

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Reply #22 on: March 10, 2021, 10:04:56 pm
Have you got links and more infos on these items?
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TrianglePete

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Reply #23 on: March 11, 2021, 12:20:30 am
Viczena

      I just learned how to post a photo...   a link ???

   Search e-bay   Royal Enfield U.S. Spec    that should bring up all the stuff I make for the American Road

I tried to correct the short comings of this classic single so we could enjoy them in the USA.

The Fin I stopped advertising because everybody turned up their nose when I mentioned it helps emissions.

I give them to people who prefer stock..  or I sell them every once in a while.    Don't buy from e-bay...


gizzo

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Reply #24 on: March 11, 2021, 02:48:50 am
Viczena

      I just learned how to post a photo...   a link ???

   Search e-bay   Royal Enfield U.S. Spec    that should bring up all the stuff I make for the American Road

I tried to correct the short comings of this classic single so we could enjoy them in the USA.

The Fin I stopped advertising because everybody turned up their nose when I mentioned it helps emissions.

I give them to people who prefer stock..  or I sell them every once in a while.    Don't buy from e-bay...
Open a new browser tab, navigate to the page you want to link to. Right click on the web address and select "Copy" from the drop down box. Go back to your forum reply and paste the copied web address in the box where you're writing your text. Cursor in the text box, right click and choose "Paste" in the drop down box.

ie https://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Enfield-Camshafts-500-535-UCE-engines-U-S-SPEC-215-In-230-ex-0-50/153438981294?hash=item23b9ad0cae:g:6YgAAOSwS7ZcVdQ4
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 02:57:15 am by gizzo »
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suitcasejefferson

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Reply #25 on: March 11, 2021, 08:51:05 am
"Has anyone done a Mikuni carb conversion such as offered by Hitchcock’s on a Euro IV C5" No, but I did an Amal carb conversion kit on a 2013 B5, and couldn't be happier with it. The bike runs 100 times better, and that is not an exaggeration. It FEELS like it has a lot more power, but that may be because the carb fattened up the mixture a lot. No more sputtering and hesitation. No more wheezing along at 55 mph. It now pulls hard, sounds much better, and has instant throttle response.

I am very familiar with Mikuni carburetors, but only on Japanese bikes. I don't know how one would work on a RE. Are you talking about a CV carb? Also the Euro IV bikes may have a completely different EFI system than the first gen EFI bike.

If Hitchcock's says you will not lose power, I would tend to believe them. I've dealt with Hitchcock's many times over the years, and always been satisfied with their service. The cost of shipping from the UK to the U.S. is another matter, but that's not their fault. I would actually be willing to give up some power just to get rid of the EFI, but I seriously doubt that is the case.
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TrianglePete

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Reply #26 on: March 11, 2021, 09:52:12 am
Thanks gizzo , I will try that later.

Viczena try my personal e-mail for more pushrod info.

I have found that steel pushrods multiply the engine vibration.

Frequency ...


AzCal Retred

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Reply #27 on: March 11, 2021, 06:44:30 pm
This thread In this UCE forum seems to have some good pragmatic info -     
IT'S ALIVE!!! Carb install a success!
Suitcasejefferson appears to be satisfied with the outcome of "carbing" his EFI UCE, so regardless of the particulars it does work.
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


viczena

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Reply #28 on: March 11, 2021, 07:25:53 pm
Nobody said, that a carb conversion does not work. But you have to pay a price for it. Point ignition also works. Magnetos work. Glow plugs work, you just have to heat them with a torch.
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #29 on: March 11, 2021, 09:52:44 pm
Apparently no price if you are just looking to replicate or even mildly improve stock performance.
Extracting maximum BHP per liter is a whole different game. Enjoying a rideable stock(ish) bike is another.
Have you read the TPS and put a timing light on some fixed values to see what the output advance curve looks like yet?
If not, why are we beating this dead horse? Claims without empirical data to back them up are not productive, just entertainment for the claimant.
Try another angle - how can you have a fixed ignition advance and duplicate on a dyno the HP/torque curves of an engine with an advance curve? How much fixed advance would it be possible to use with an electric start system? Do these numbers seem compatible or even possible?

In the old days two strokes ran with fixed advance, but the tuned exhaust pipe had a large effect on power output. Transfer port and exhaust port heights determined the real compression ratio. The big bore machines could deliver quite a kick back if you weren't awake. 2-cycle Outboard motors used huge variable ignition advance and deflector pistons to make their power. But 2-cycle engines are a whole different animal.

If H's can have NO ADVANCE CURVE and replicate on a dyno UCE factory HP/Torque numbers as they claim, WHY is there any advance at all on the pre-unit Bullet? Did H's just discover some new law of engine combustion physics unknown to Harry Ricardo in 1915? Why do they advertise that their conversion replicates or slightly improves performance? Why do the owners of these converted machines performance claims closely parallel H's? What's the logical assumption here?
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.