Author Topic: Tubeless tires for us tube guys?  (Read 654 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

agagliardi

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Karma: 0
on: February 23, 2021, 04:00:16 pm
We all know that tubeless is superior. But, for those of us that do not want to change wheels or do the outex thing, and are will to gamble with tubes, what tire would be the best choice? It seems that most of the tires made today that work with the 650 are tubeless design, and work perfectly. Is it true that tubeless tires generally have stiffer sidewalls? If this is true, would not tubeless be somewhat safer in a blowout, as the stiffer sidewall would offer a bit of "run flat" characteristics, be less likely to come off the rim suddenly, and allow the rider to maintain a bit of control to stop? Other characteristics to consider would be ride and ease of mounting. Are the tube type tires easier to mount, and do they offer a smoother ride? If the tube tire if superior in most ways except ease of flat repair, is there a tube tire that boasts superior puncture resistance? I would think so with all the dual purpose bikes out there with spokes and tubes.

What say our veteran riders of experience and our other experience riders.
 

1988 Super Magna, 2000 Harley Softail, 2004 Hayabusa,
2020 Royal Enfield Interceptor, 2004 Corvette


NJ Mike

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: 0
Reply #1 on: February 23, 2021, 04:32:55 pm
I'm not sure that I've seen any tube type only tires in a long time. At least not for a road bike.

A tubeless tire designation itself will not necessarily be less prone to coming off of a rim, the individual tire design has more to do with that. A rapid and complete air loss is going to be a problem for any tire. But in the most common situation with a nail or screw in your tire, a tubeless type will generally lose air more gradually, giving you fair warning. However a tube will deflate more quickly under every scenario.

I've done the Outex kit myself, and it takes time and patience.

However it takes far less time and patience, and is much safer than getting a flat with a tube tire out on the road in the middle of nowhere, in the dark, without cell service, tire lube, big ass irons, a pump, a few extra tubes as you pinch one or two, and a jack in your tool kit in case it's the front wheel.

Personally, the tube type wheels were the biggest impediment to actually deciding on getting the bike. I knew, before I even got it, that I'd be doing the tubeless conversion. I've had flats on the road over the years on various bike, and always had a plug kit for them. It's easy and safe to do, and generally won't ruin your day.

I was on a ride with a guy on him Moto Guzzi California a few years ago. We were miles from home and he got a flat. No center stand, no tools, no spare tube, nothing, nada, bupkis. His choice was either a $300.00 tow truck, or one of our riding buddies rode home, got his trailer and van, and drove back to pick him up.

That said, many people are fine with tubes.
Been riding since 1980.
Current Ride: 2019 RE Conti GT 650

Past Rides: 2002 SV 650, 2001 Moto-Guzzi V11 Sport, 1985 BMW K75, 1992 Honda 750 Nighthawk, 1982 Yamaha Vision, 1981 Kawasaki GPZ 550, 1978 Honda 750F, 1980 Honda 650


biscot

  • Idaho, USA
  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: 0
  • 2020 Baker Express
Reply #2 on: February 23, 2021, 05:51:44 pm
You're scaring me bit. I've had a few flats, even one blowout (thanks to patching a tube, which I've never done since, at least on a motorcycle) and never had a problem controlling it. A tire coming off the rim? You'd be down for sure. I did have a buddy who rolled a sew-up on a racing bicycle (right in front of me) - those tires are glued on a rim that doesn't have a bead - and he was down so fast it was like he slipped on ice.
I've always run tubes. Tubes or tubeless, what are the chances a tire might come off the rim, and what might cause this? Has this ever happened to anyone on an RE 650? It seems unlikely, but curious minds want to know. Any type of tire better to prevent this?


6504me

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 0
Reply #3 on: February 23, 2021, 05:57:53 pm
If you run premium quality tires and premium quality tubes (most people buy cheap tubes), maintain correct tire pressures for your riding style, and pay attention to the road you can minimize the occurrence of flat tires.

Wish I had a nickel for every mile a motorcyclist has ridden on a tube tire with tube without getting a flat since... let's say the 50's.


NJ Mike

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: 0
Reply #4 on: February 23, 2021, 06:25:09 pm
Tires coming off the rim is pretty rare. And the safety bead on the inside of the rim helps with that.

One place you don't want to go cheap is on tubes, or tires for that matter. Pay attention to what your tires are doing while riding, and you'll probably be aware of a loss of pressure long before it gets too far gone.

Many riders go their entire riding career without ever having a flat, so maybe there's not as much need to be concerned about it as I seem to think there is.

Been riding since 1980.
Current Ride: 2019 RE Conti GT 650

Past Rides: 2002 SV 650, 2001 Moto-Guzzi V11 Sport, 1985 BMW K75, 1992 Honda 750 Nighthawk, 1982 Yamaha Vision, 1981 Kawasaki GPZ 550, 1978 Honda 750F, 1980 Honda 650


agagliardi

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Karma: 0
Reply #5 on: February 23, 2021, 06:39:42 pm
Thanks for your imput. I also have ridden and toured with tubes. Never had a flat. I had a nail in a tubeless tire once which I did not notice until randonly checking the pressure which, to my horror, was 11 PSI. I was cruising just before and actuallly did not notice much of a difference!  It is a stiff Avon road rider, no doubt the stiff sidewall helped to mask the low pressure.   

I have been lucky, but you know how luck goes! It runs out.

I would continue to ride with tubes, but would love to find a tire that has superior puncture resistance. I know there must be differences in puncture resistance and "hardness of rubber compound"between various brands. For example, Contis and Dunlops seem to have softer rubber, in my experience, wore out more quickly. Maybe a tire with a longer mileage rating may be the way to go.
1988 Super Magna, 2000 Harley Softail, 2004 Hayabusa,
2020 Royal Enfield Interceptor, 2004 Corvette


grahamfirestorm

  • grahamfirestorm
  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: 0
  • ridden for 53yrs raced in the 70s and 80s
Reply #6 on: February 23, 2021, 07:16:55 pm
Yes that was my concern when i bought my silver spectre -getting punctures,so thats why i have squirted BIKESEAL into each tyre which should stop rapid loss of air,or better still according to the company actually seal a puncture-£30 for 2 wheels-peace of mind.
boss the bike not the other way round.


Karl Fenn

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Karma: 0
Reply #7 on: February 23, 2021, 08:10:15 pm
I always buy expensive off road tubes and then keep my fingers crossed, you will never Plug a tubless tire for longitivity so it will have to come off at some point for mushroom plugging.


biscot

  • Idaho, USA
  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: 0
  • 2020 Baker Express
Reply #8 on: February 23, 2021, 09:02:18 pm
What tubes do you use - anything in particular? I might swap for some heavier tubes. Any downside to that? I'm not that big on putting goop into my tubes.


agagliardi

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Karma: 0
Reply #9 on: February 23, 2021, 09:06:39 pm
I also get nervous about using those sealants. Anyone had experience with punctures on a tube tire, positive or negative?
1988 Super Magna, 2000 Harley Softail, 2004 Hayabusa,
2020 Royal Enfield Interceptor, 2004 Corvette


zimmemr

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
  • Karma: 0
Reply #10 on: February 23, 2021, 11:40:11 pm
I also get nervous about using those sealants. Anyone had experience with punctures on a tube tire, positive or negative?

I've had a few, the worst was on the rear of 1970 H1 Kawasaki, I pinched the tube installing it, and it blew out on me at about 75 mph, but it stopped in a straight line. Other than being a pain in the ass to repair, especially on the roadside they were no big deal. But I have heard of them rolling off the rim and causing serious accidents. If you're really nervous about it, and still want to run tubes install a rim lock. A rim lock or side wall screws will keep the tire on the in the event of a flat.


agagliardi

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Karma: 0
Reply #11 on: February 24, 2021, 03:52:36 am
Thanks Mark, I will research these items
1988 Super Magna, 2000 Harley Softail, 2004 Hayabusa,
2020 Royal Enfield Interceptor, 2004 Corvette


6504me

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 0
Reply #12 on: February 24, 2021, 05:04:17 am
What tubes do you use - anything in particular? I might swap for some heavier tubes. Any downside to that? I'm not that big on putting goop into my tubes.

Bridgestone and Michelin tubes are first rate and far superior to the run of the mill tubes. They are more pricey though.


6504me

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 0
Reply #13 on: February 24, 2021, 05:06:35 am
Yes that was my concern when i bought my silver spectre -getting punctures,so thats why i have squirted BIKESEAL into each tyre which should stop rapid loss of air,or better still according to the company actually seal a puncture-£30 for 2 wheels-peace of mind.


No goop will slow a tube blow out.

If you have ever have to repair a flat tire that has any kind of goop in the tube you will never put goop in another tube.


NVDucati

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,388
  • Karma: 1
  • USA 2020 INT
Reply #14 on: February 24, 2021, 05:30:01 am

No goop will slow a tube blow out.

If you have ever have to repair a flat tire that has any kind of goop in the tube you will never put goop in another tube.

Just for the record, "goop" comes in two basic formats. Fiber particle latex and adhesive. The adhesive style cures after year or so into real nasty goop which won't work but is less expensive. The latex never cures and washes out with water. It is ready to work indefinately by packing the fiber elements into the puncture hole stopping the air from escaping rapidly (slow leak).
Member: AMA
Current Rides: '14 DL1000 ADV, '06 SV650N, '93 900CBRR, '74 Ducati 750GT