Author Topic: Cruising at 120 km/h  (Read 2054 times)

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AzCal Retred

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Reply #15 on: December 16, 2020, 08:39:18 pm
There's always the Jawa Perak for comparison. 6 speeds. 30 HP at some undisclosed RPM, I'm guessing maybe 8500-ish? It HAS to spin more than the Meteor to develop 50% more power (on paper, at least). Price is about 15% more than the Meteor. Mileage seems to be in the 28-32 Km/L range, probably more often 65 MPG mostly as kids of all ages will be exploring the powerband more thru that 6-speed box. Car 'n Bike think it'll run 125/75 pretty reliably, (DriveSpark is thinking 150-160 KPH (90-95 MPH) which squares with maybe 28-30 HP. It will definitely be more "frantic" than the Meteor. That 6-speed may possibly mean it's a bit "cammy". Keef Sparrow & Derottone have made a good point about market suitability. The Perak would certainly be suited for the US market where we don't mind rowing the shifter a bit. The Kamikaze Ninja 250/300 is proof of that. Derottone's other point about MPG seems borne out also, a possible 65 MPG for the more muscly Perak against a probable 85 MPG for the more laid back Meteor.

https://www.carandbike.com/reviews/jawa-perak-first-impressions-2192708#:~:text=The%20Perak%20is%20a%20factory%2Dcustom%20motorcycle%2C%20and%20India's%20most,capacity%20engine%2C%20with%20more%20performance.

https://www.drivespark.com/two-wheelers/2019/jawa-perak-top-speed-mileage-seating-height-exhaust-bookings-deliveries-more-029879.html
Jawa Motorcycles are yet to share any official performance figures of the Perak motorcycle. However, considering the power output and weight, we expect it to come with a top speed of around 150km/h to 160km/h. Mileage & Fuel Tank Capacity The Jawa Perak comes with the same fuel tank as the Jawa and Jawa 42 motorcycle. This includes the same 14-litre tank capacity as the others. However, with slightly higher displacement and power output from the engine, we expect the Perak to return a lower mileage figure than the other two models. The fuel efficiency figures of the Jawa Perak will be in the range of 28 - 32km/l.
Read more at: https://www.drivespark.com/two-wheelers/2019/jawa-perak-top-speed-mileage-seating-height-exhaust-bookings-deliveries-more/articlecontent-pf106935-029879.html
« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 09:38:59 pm by AzCal Retred »
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axman88

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Reply #16 on: December 17, 2020, 03:06:54 am

Highway speed limit is in most countries 120 km/h.

Yet, However, apparently not so in India.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_India

Yeah, I do get it apart from building a brand new bike that isn't an equal to what the Japanese were producing 30+ years ago  :-[

Since Japan's national speed limit is basically 62 mph,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_Japan#:~:text=Statutory%20speed%20limit%20in%20Japan,and%20T%C5%8Dhoku%20Expressway%20(E4)    I can only assume that they have been building all those high powered, high speed products for export.  Is this a clever form of cold war?  If so, it's certainly effective, kill the bravest and youngest, and make them pay well for the privilege.

But, I'm just being silly....

It is equally silly to think that a manufacturer serving the Indian motorcycle market needs to concern themselves much with what the rest of the world thinks it wants.

In 2019, about 470,000 motorcycles were sold in the USA.
              about 108,000 in the UK.

Both of these english speaking countries total sales combined, comprise LESS than 3% of the 21,180,000 motorcycles that were sold in India in the same year.

I calculate Royal Enfield's piece of the India pie as around 4%.  Export sales of RE's represent around 5% of their total sales.

To put it in perspective, approx.
         1 Harley Davidson motorcycle sold worldwide for every 3 Royal Enfields sold.
         1 Harley Davidson sold worldwide for every 100 motorcycles sold in India.


Bilgemaster

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Reply #17 on: December 17, 2020, 08:04:37 am
Royal Enfield's situation in its home market is similar to Harley's in its as far as expectations go. They can't really churn out bikes SO different than their tried and true models without risking that market. The Bullet 350 has been the mainstay of Enfield's sales since their creation in the mid-'50s...even iconically so. When they could no longer squeak the old original Iron Cylinder models through ever-sharpening emissions and other requirements, they came out with the UCE model, designed with similar, if perhaps slightly improved, riding characteristics to the old model, hoping their traditionalist market would accept them. By the same token, now that years later the UCE is no longer a viable platform to carry them through yet stricter standards, their new Meteor line is designed to be similar enough to the UCE Bullets to continue to cater to that mainstay market. And that home market doesn't really care to or frankly have many opportunities most days of cruising much at 120 kph (75 mph) anyhow.
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.

(Legal enough to pass muster if they don't look too closely in Woodbridge, Virginia, where the buses don't run at night, holidays or weekends and I'm a contender for 'Village Idiot')


derottone

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Reply #18 on: December 17, 2020, 08:38:53 am
I would probably disagree that the meteor 350cc engine is anyhow better suited to match emission standards.The ironbarrel design is the original RE design, what they have done inbetween the meteor and iron barrel was kind of cosmetic improvments. Most likely just purchased from 3rd parties like AVL. All this resulted in a kind of inconsistent engine mishmash with lot of lesser exciting features for the general customer. With the meteor engine they took a clean sheet of paper and developed an engine that is likely not to trash their existing customers by keeping the nostalgia features like the long stroke, the thump, economy conciousness.....csimulataniously adding on attributes that any new customer unfamiliar with REs is likely to expect. Low vibrations by adding a counterbalancer, this alone makes life easier for all components attached to the Chassis by reducing the risk of them comming loose or break, remember the Speedo bracket on the GT535 tex., or the tail light? So I doubt this design work was much to do with emmissions, more like a contradiction oriented innovation to satisfy the existing RE base and simultaniously win new customers. Increase the quality with simultaniously keeping the cost within spec. A new coherent engine design.
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derottone

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Reply #19 on: December 17, 2020, 09:07:45 am
The bad news is though that with the low. vibrating engine they can employ now a lot of idiot bracket designers with low technical understanding which will ultimately lead to the demise of the company.  ;D
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #20 on: December 17, 2020, 09:08:15 am
Derottone - I'm onboard with your emissions theory. I'm not seeing how one air-cooled 2-valve motor magically becomes significantly "cleaner" that another would be. Squish, combustion chamber shape, C.R., all can be handled with a cylinder head & piston. Stroke is still essentially 90mm. The biggie for emissions is probably the EFI, but that is again just another bolt-on. Counter balancer is a really nice sales feature, seems like it should have to increase reliability & engine longevity as well by virtue of cancelling out at least some vibration. For my money the hydraulic valves should have stayed, but chain driven OHC was probably cheaper.
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #21 on: December 17, 2020, 09:13:55 am
@ # 19: Maybe use some of those pressed-plant-material plastics or go really old school and use bamboo laminates for instrument mounts , fenders, etc.
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derottone

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Reply #22 on: December 17, 2020, 10:43:50 am
@ # 19: Maybe use some of those pressed-plant-material plastics or go really old school and use bamboo laminates for instrument mounts , fenders, etc.

 ;D

...definitely, the aesthetics may benefit, who knows.  ;)

not only that, even in racing there might be a benefit to a counterbalance if you have a vibrating single. Fixing this issues the guy had in the video attached sure is possible without a counterbalance too, it would turn the bike into a tank however. So you can say that adding the counterbalancer saves weight in this case.  :)

https://youtu.be/28GlbQQomrE

This guy must have been fortunate enough never to habe worked in a retarded parasitic truck company though.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 11:45:17 am by derottone »
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Richard230

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Reply #23 on: December 17, 2020, 02:06:50 pm
Derottone - I'm onboard with your emissions theory. I'm not seeing how one air-cooled 2-valve motor magically becomes significantly "cleaner" that another would be. Squish, combustion chamber shape, C.R., all can be handled with a cylinder head & piston. Stroke is still essentially 90mm. The biggie for emissions is probably the EFI, but that is again just another bolt-on. Counter balancer is a really nice sales feature, seems like it should have to increase reliability & engine longevity as well by virtue of cancelling out at least some vibration. For my money the hydraulic valves should have stayed, but chain driven OHC was probably cheaper.

Yesterday, I read that BMW managed to push their air/oil cooled 1200cc boxer engine, as used in their popular R9T models, to meet Euro 5 emissions standards by redesigning the engine's combustion chamber to increase intake swirl.
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zimmemr

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Reply #24 on: December 17, 2020, 02:11:08 pm
;D

...definitely, the aesthetics may benefit, who knows.  ;)

not only that, even in racing there might be a benefit to a counterbalance if you have a vibrating single. Fixing this issues the guy had in the video attached sure is possible without a counterbalance too, it would turn the bike into a tank however. So you can say that adding the counterbalancer saves weight in this case.  :)

https://youtu.be/28GlbQQomrE

This guy must have been fortunate enough never to habe worked in a retarded parasitic truck company though.

When counter balanced singles first became popular for off-road bikes a lot of dirt trackers were convinced they offered better traction. Whether they provided any real advantage or not I can't say. I rode both types and never noticed much difference. And the win/lose ratio was about the same.

 For the majority of my working life I was a truck/heavy equipment mechanic, but I was fortunate that only one of the places I worked was parasitic. Though given the owners current financial worth it doesn't appear that he was retarded.  ;). Can I assume that you're also a truck mechanic?


derottone

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Reply #25 on: December 17, 2020, 02:18:59 pm
When counter balanced singles first became popular for off-road bikes a lot of dirt trackers were convinced they offered better traction. Whether they provided any real advantage or not I can't say. I rode both types and never noticed much difference. And the win/lose ratio was about the same.

 For the majority of my working life I was a truck/heavy equipment mechanic, but I was fortunate that only one of the places I worked was parasitic. Though given the owners current financial worth it doesn't appear that he was retarded.  ;). Can I assume that you're also a truck mechanic?

The owner was the parasitic loss than. No I'm not a truck mechanic, I do what I want.  ;)
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zimmemr

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Reply #26 on: December 17, 2020, 03:10:21 pm
The owner was the parasitic loss than. No I'm not a truck mechanic, I do what I want.  ;)

The owner was a F**king loon, but you make a fair point, I did what I wanted as well, which was to work on trucks, which for me was a challenging and very rewarding career. For 32 years I worked for a public electric utility where I was a shop foreman. If our trucks didn't roll, especially during storms people were without power. It may sound silly to you but I always felt like we had a social responsibility to keep the trucks on the road and by extension the power on, and so did most of my co-workers. A lot of us bitched about the "bosses" though I don't think we ever called them parasitic, as some of the more common 8 letter words were more descriptive but our attitude was that our union really controlled the way things worked on the ground and that the bosses were just there to do the paperwork. ;)


derottone

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Reply #27 on: December 17, 2020, 03:23:19 pm
Now you receive the payment for acting socially responsibly I guess. If the owner doesn't pay, those who benefitted from your work never will. At times a union can be worth something, however more often they act like another self serving organisation. ;)
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zimmemr

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Reply #28 on: December 17, 2020, 04:29:00 pm
Now you receive the payment for acting socially responsibly I guess. If the owner doesn't pay, those who benefitted from your work never will. At times a union can be worth something, however more often they act like another self serving organisation. ;)

A union is only as good as it's members who have to be responsible enough to elect honest, reasonable and intelligent leaders. If not you end up with something like what the UAW is currently undergoing or what caused the downfall of the Teamsters. It's extremely hard to do, which is why a lot of them (Unions) get it wrong.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 04:31:01 pm by zimmemr »


derottone

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Reply #29 on: December 17, 2020, 05:35:53 pm
A union is only as good as it's members who have to be responsible enough to elect honest, reasonable and intelligent leaders. If not you end up with something like what the UAW is currently undergoing or what caused the downfall of the Teamsters. It's extremely hard to do, which is why a lot of them (Unions) get it wrong.

..my favourite is the swedish Unionen, f@#in Imbecilles. One of the greatest things ever they introduced was "mansplaining", someone has to do the explaining I suppose, consequently the company didn't come up with anything ever since.  :D
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 05:38:39 pm by derottone »
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