Author Topic: ebay sellers and available stock?  (Read 383 times)

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crabjoe

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on: September 14, 2020, 02:50:24 pm
Anyone know what ebays policy might be on sellers selling items they don't actually have?

I had ordered a short flyscreen with compact engine guard from a seller called VintageBikeCountry.  They had a 98.8% positive rating.

The order was placed on 9/5.. estimated delivery was 9/14-10/22..  Delivery method was listed as India Post.  Having ordered from China, seeing a broad time frame in
delivery wasn't unusual to me.

On 9/8, I messaged them asking for a tracking number, if the items had shipped, if not, when they expect shipping.  I got a reply the next day saying it was being processed,
then followed by a tracking number notification. 

I started checking the tracking number the following day, and the only information from I could get was that no information could be found with the tracking number.

Two days ago, I messaged the seller stating based on the tracking number they provided, they hadn't actually shipped and when they expected to ship.  This morning, I got the below reply.

"These parts are genuine and comes direct from Royal Enfield on order. So it takes some time for the dispatch. Your parcel is still under process."

The way I'm reading this is that they never had the parts in stock and they're now waiting to get the parts themselves before shipping.

Has anyone seen this before?  Anyone if if eBay allows this and if not, what my recourse might be?

Thanks!


heloego

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Reply #1 on: September 14, 2020, 03:05:43 pm
I just hope you used PayPal so you do have recourse.
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Bilgemaster

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Reply #2 on: September 14, 2020, 03:15:51 pm
I just hope you used PayPal so you do have recourse.

If you did use PayPal, just report non-delivery with eBay from the item's entry in your account's "Purchases" section, and you'll be refunded in a few days. I've done this several times with random doodads from China that never showed up.
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.

Legal enough to pass muster if they don't look too closely in Woodbridge, Virginia, where the buses don't run at night, holidays or weekends


axman88

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Reply #3 on: September 14, 2020, 04:34:37 pm
I have experienced various issues, like unannounced substitution of similar items, no-delivery, and sellers cancelling orders.  In every case so far, ( I use Paypal ) whenever the seller didn't already refund, Ebay has refunded the purchase price.

BUT

The long delivery windows specified on most of these items from India and China means that for any issues related to fulfillment, one needs to wait until the END of the delivery window to get resolution.  If the seller claims that delivery takes from 10 days to 2 months, I wouldn't bother asking Ebay to resolve issues until the full 60 days have passed.  You can complain directly to the seller, but I wouldn't anticipate a lot of satisfaction coming from this.

What you described, 3rd party fulfillment, is standard operation procedure nowadays.  It's common practice on Amazon and with various other internet sales sites, including Ebay.

I have posted previously, and complained to Ebay, about what I call "the long delivery window scam", which I think works as follows:
     1)  Seller offers an item with a wide delivery window, like between 3 weeks and 3 months.
     2)  Delivery routing information shows "shipment number reserved" or something like this.  Foreign shipping companies/ post offices are very opaque.  This status qualified in the Ebay system as "item shipped", now the buyer must wait.  Has the item actually been shipped?  Maybe, but who can say.
     3)  If you enquire, seller says, "wait".  You must wait the full 3 months before Ebay will act on your behalf.
     4)   After 60 days, the sale drops off your Ebay front page, the information is still there, but it's not in your face.
     5)   At 90 days, buyer loses the ability to leave feedback.  Negative feedback is about the only effective tool to discipline bad sellers.
     6)   If you complain, seller can cancel the transaction, and refund your money at any time.  The transaction "disappears".  Buyer can't leave feedback on a seller-cancelled transaction.
     7)   If you complain, early in the wide delivery window, seller can easily send a 2nd shipment and still meet the WIDE delivery window.
     8)   If you don't complain, seller keeps your money.  I suspect that a good percentage of buyers don't complain.  After 2 months, they have forgotten about a $7 purchase.

The cheap prices come with a cost.


Stanley

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Reply #4 on: September 14, 2020, 05:33:46 pm
I'll add my 2 Rupees here.
My Bullet was purchased knowing there was no local support of any kind.
I've gotten overall positive results with Indian suppliers with dozens of orders. One exception was a gas tank undelivered until I complained and got a refund. I imagine this served as a microloan for the seller. Another was the long delivery time/too late to refund scam and I lost $7 on that one. Oh, and one bonded pump worm was unbonded. I just laughed and stuck a cork in it. Otherwise I'm quite impressed by the service of Enfield County and other major sellers over lesser sellers who fail to post part numbers or clearly describe the item.  To those discriminating shoppers who can appreciate and afford the finest of products and service, Hitchcock's is the gold standard.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #5 on: September 14, 2020, 08:44:49 pm
Kudo's to Axman88's analysis. Pithy & concise - well done.

My two pence - It's the perennial "needs vs. wants" argument. R.E. Iron Barrel ownership isn't a necessity. Transportation can be had cheaper a wide variety of ways. Riding/repairing/"fettling" an I.B. falls squarely in the hobby classification, and reasonably is supported out of the disposable income piggy bank. For me, the hassle of dealing with marginal suppliers is in no way worth the aggravation. I check H's parts prices against e-bay, and in most cases H's is close enough to make taking a risk on dodgy parts unpalatable, particularly so with engine parts. Almost every item I buy for my I.B. pertains to hardware I have no interest in failing on a ride: cables, seals, bushings, filters, levers, etc. Foo-foo stuff, like side covers, horns, seats, brass doo-dads I'm OK with because e-bay has more variety of these "arty" items. I don't care if a brass monkey falls off of my side cover, but I sure wouldn't put a pot metal "pattern" con-rod inside my engine. - ACR -

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Nitrowing

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Reply #6 on: September 14, 2020, 11:07:05 pm
. R.E. Iron Barrel ownership isn't a necessity. Transportation can be had cheaper a wide variety of ways. Riding/repairing/"fettling" an I.B. falls squarely in the hobby classification, and reasonably is supported out of the disposable income piggy bank.  - ACR -
I totally agree. All of the Big 4 produce a more reliable bike for the same price second hand. They may not be as simple to work on but as they don't break down in the first place...
My Bullet is a toy, something for nipping in to town on.
No wonder we no longer have a motor industry


heloego

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Reply #7 on: September 15, 2020, 06:59:59 pm
I've had a few interesting interactions with Amazon lately.
Several times I've had stuff delivered ordered by someone else. Baby Clothing. Photo Studio lighting. And more. None for which I have much use.
Amazon didn't even want them returned, and I would not be charged for something I did not order.
Interesting. I hope the intended buyers were taken care of.
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Narada

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Reply #8 on: September 15, 2020, 09:14:51 pm
Don't forget Tim, right here in the USA.   ;)

https://westerncyclesupply.com/
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Richard230

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Reply #9 on: September 15, 2020, 10:21:47 pm
I've had a few interesting interactions with Amazon lately.
Several times I've had stuff delivered ordered by someone else. Baby Clothing. Photo Studio lighting. And more. None for which I have much use.
Amazon didn't even want them returned, and I would not be charged for something I did not order.
Interesting. I hope the intended buyers were taken care of.

I had the same experience two months ago. The delivery was made to me, but the address was at the other side of town. So I got on my bike and delivered to the correct address.  Then last month I ordered a green, size medium jacket and received a blue, XL sweater. I sent the sweater back to Amazon via the local UPS store, but three weeks later is still hadn't left their facility. When I asked why not, they told me that they have a large box that goes to the Amazon warehouse and they don't send it out until it gets filled up with returned items. So I finally contacted Amazon customer service via chat and they gave me a refund based upon my UPS receipt and tracking number.
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tooseevee

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Reply #10 on: September 16, 2020, 12:24:50 am
If you did use PayPal, just report non-delivery with eBay from the item's entry in your account's "Purchases" section, and you'll be refunded in a few days. I've done this several times with random doodads from China that never showed up.

           All in all, I've had very good luck with Ebay. There was one item (many weeks ago) I never received. It showed as "Delivered" and I then submitted an "I did not get my item" message with Ebay. Ebay answered "We've notified the Seller". Finally it showed up "Resolved" & Ebay messaged me the Seller says "it shows Delivered" and it can't be proven he didn't get it so we can't/won't do anything in this case. I got no item, I got no refund. No, it was not stolen. There is ZERO traffic, afoot or on horseback or on wheels, on my road and delivery trucks have made MANY deliveries here over the past 31 years. I know, I know, that's traffic  :) :)

               ??? ??? ???  ????

               Should I have talked to PayPal even though Ebay would not support my claim?   

               I have another item Right Now that was supposed to have arrived Aug 20. I have done what I'm supposed to and STILL no answer from Ebay.

               Hope it doesn't come in threes.

           
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axman88

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Reply #11 on: September 16, 2020, 03:28:25 am
There was one item (many weeks ago) I never received. It showed as "Delivered" and I then submitted an "I did not get my item" message with Ebay. Ebay answered "We've notified the Seller". Finally it showed up "Resolved" & Ebay messaged me the Seller says "it shows Delivered" and it can't be proven he didn't get it so we can't/won't do anything in this case. I got no item, I got no refund.

               Should I have talked to PayPal even though Ebay would not support my claim?   

               I have another item Right Now that was supposed to have arrived Aug 20. I have done what I'm supposed to and STILL no answer from Ebay.
   

You may have fallen prey to the "intentional wrong address" scam.
     https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Selling/How-to-prevent-this-scam-Intentionally-ship-to-wrong-address/td-p/23844613

I have had quite a few of what I suspect are these, because the tracking information shows it going to our local, Chicago international postal receiving terminal, where apparently it remains, or a few times it shows it has reversed and is heading back to the seller.  I think our local USPS international depot may be wise to this scam and checking somehow.  When the seller gives me the message, "go to the post office and ask", I get suspicious, because that international terminal at the airport is NOT a place you can go, it's just a zip code.

What I do is, early in the delivery window, if there is anything untoward in the delivery tracking info, or NO tracking info, is to contact the seller and start asking for VALID delivery information.  I figure this will encourage them to send an ACTUAL shipment.

Another thing I often do is include some text in my Paypal payment, something like "Pack well and ship to address provided, I look forward to receiving my item as soon as possible but no later than (date they have listed)".  Anything to make it clear to the buyer that I am involved and active in the purchase.  Let them scam the next guy.

If I need to, I call Ebay and get a real person on the phone.  Late at night is the best time, I've gotten somebody on the phone at 1 in the morning.  I think it's helpful to be able to show that, as a buyer, I've sent multiple messages, over a period of time, attached pictures etc, and really tried to work it out.  It probably doesn't hurt that my account on Ebay is 25 years old, and gets used steadily.

All this probably sounds like a hassle and compared to ordering from Hitchcock's it is, but I only have trouble with about 1 of 15, and generally not at all with any US sellers.

Good Luck!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 03:32:05 am by axman88 »


tooseevee

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Reply #12 on: September 16, 2020, 02:37:15 pm
You may have fallen prey to the "intentional wrong address" scam.
     https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Selling/How-to-prevent-this-scam-Intentionally-ship-to-wrong-address/td-p/23844613

What I do is, early in the delivery window, if there is anything untoward in the delivery tracking info, or NO tracking info, is to contact the seller and start asking for VALID delivery information.  I figure this will encourage them to send an ACTUAL shipment.

Good Luck!

            Just this AM I have been given a full refund on only the 2nd thing in my whole Ebay "career" (since '97 I believe) that has not been delivered.

            On your "delivery window" reference above: Do you start "queerying" Ebay and the Seller immediately the day after the stated delivery date?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 02:41:12 pm by tooseevee »
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tooseevee

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Reply #13 on: September 16, 2020, 02:49:33 pm
I'll add my 2 Rupees here.
My Bullet was purchased knowing there was no local support of any kind.
I've gotten overall positive results with Indian suppliers with dozens of orders.

            Same here. No dealer near. All day round trip driving a CAR. Got my '08 brand new NOT from a dealer. Never have BEEN to a dealer. For ANYthing. Have done fine with parts from CMW, Hitchcocks, Western Cycle, Baker Cycle, Low Brow, J&P and Ebay.
'08 Black AVL Classic.ACEhead 9.8:1/manifold/canister. TM32/Open short bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades


axman88

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Reply #14 on: September 17, 2020, 12:20:34 am
            Just this AM I have been given a full refund on only the 2nd thing in my whole Ebay "career" (since '97 I believe) that has not been delivered.

            On your "delivery window" reference above: Do you start "queerying" Ebay and the Seller immediately the day after the stated delivery date?
Your success rate is much better than mine.  It took me three tries just to get oil filters for my C5 from India, the first and second shipments failed to arrive.  Finally, the third time, the shipment was late and the seller agreed to send a replacement shipment.  Three days after we made an agreement, their original shipment showed up, and twenty days after that, the replacement shipment showed up, so now I have a lifetime supply with a cost of about 65 cents each.   I delivered the positive feedback that I promised.

Regarding when I start communicating, if the shipment tracking info doesn't show regular progress, or just shows "tracking information entered", but doesn't update, I'll start communicating with the seller very early in the delivery window, like day 10.  At this point Ebay is NOT involved, any communication is just friendly messages between the buyer and the seller.  I'll ask for VALID shipment tracking info.  I'll ask for PROOF that the item was actually shipped.  I'll write messages like, "I'll be happy to leave positive feedback IF I receive the CORRECT item and it arrives ON TIME and in good condition", so they can read between the lines that I will leave BAD feedback if I don't get anything or it's the wrong thing.   Squeaky wheel gets the grease!

After the item shows as delivered, Ebay is automatically involved in any communication that goes through their site.  The seller is given quite a long time to respond to your initial inquiry, and the buyer must respond to the seller's communications in a timely manner.  If Ebay closes the case, it's not a done deal, an email or phone call can re-open it.

If things look like they are going to go bad, one thing I'm careful to do is to NOT miss the negative feedback deadline.  Before I leave negative feedback, I'll make sure I tell the seller exactly what they need to do to avoid that negative feedback, give them plenty of chances to straighten up and fly right.  If you both sell AND buy, and are thus sensitive to receiving negative feedback yourself, wait till the 23rd hour of the 89th day to leave your negative feedback.  Lots of sellers will neg. feedback a buyer who leaves them negative feedback, and they can also ask Ebay to intercede and expunge neg. feedback from their own record, which Ebay will do if the buyer's communication doesn't show due diligence.  Neg. feedback is a powerful tool.  I try to use it as more of a carrot than a stick, and try to always give my messages a positive, understanding tone.

Another scam is sellers sending a bogus cheap item instead of a the actual expensive item.  This is easily fought by posting pictures.  I just opened a case today, with a seller who sent me a cheaper plastic substitute for some  "vintage" steel bicycle headlights I ordered.  The picture of the items are clearly different, so I don't anticipate difficulty getting either a replacement with the correct item, or a refund.  The problem is that shipping from the USA to China costs more than a lot of items.  If the seller insists on a return, I think I'll use a variation of a seller trick and take a hammer to the headlights, smash them flat and put them into an letter rate envelope.  In retrospect, I should have seen this coming, ... the seller's ad had blanks in all the descriptive fields.   Next time my initial message will say, "Purchasing METAL headlight with rotary switch and visor, NO substitutions will be accepted".

Some cultures enjoy haggling, and that's what we dealing with when buying from the east.  It's considered to be part of business.  If one enjoys that sort of thing, it can be as much fun as any other video game.