Author Topic: Strange oil situation  (Read 543 times)

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Richard230

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Reply #15 on: September 15, 2020, 02:45:21 pm
I might add that once the oil level is correctly set on my 2011 Bullet, the oil level doesn't change between 2K oil changes. Other than a little weeping of oil at the bottom of the engine case from the oil plug, the engine seems remarkably oil tight and is not burning any oil.  :)
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


axman88

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Reply #16 on: September 15, 2020, 06:07:28 pm
Did my usual return home procedure, parked on the drive on the sidestand but this time left the engine running, then whilst still running I opened the garage and put the bike inside and on the centrestand.
My C5 will die as soon as the sidestand is lowered.  Have you defeated the sidestand safety switch?


Is that sidestand safety switch strictly to prevent pogo sticking on a left turn, or might there be an oil flow issue if the engine is left idling on the side stand?


ren

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Reply #17 on: September 16, 2020, 08:20:29 am
My C5 will die as soon as the sidestand is lowered.  Have you defeated the sidestand safety switch?


Is that sidestand safety switch strictly to prevent pogo sticking on a left turn, or might there be an oil flow issue if the engine is left idling on the side stand?

Provided it is in neutral, lowering the sidestand whilst the engine is running does not stop it. The switch is there to prevent engaging the gears and riding off with the sidestand down and it's very common for bikes these days to have this feature for safety. I've had loads of bikes  and I think just about all those in more recent years had this.

It sounds unlikely that leaving the bike idling for a very short time, counted in seconds, on the sidestand would cause any oil flow problem.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 08:29:25 am by ren »


Haggis

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Reply #18 on: September 16, 2020, 11:54:22 am
On pre euro 4 bikes the sidestand down kills the engine even when in neutral.
Its an easy fix as all you need to do is unplug the connector.
Off route, recalculate?


fgp11

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Reply #19 on: September 16, 2020, 01:12:57 pm
Yes, sometimes oil seems to desappear from the level lens. That's because the oil pump no always discharges completely when cutting off the engine. To check, try kicking a few times the kick start with the engine switch off. After a few kicks you will see the oil returning to its level as by miracle (UCE engines don't burn or consume oil at all).
Cheers from Spain.


ren

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Reply #20 on: September 16, 2020, 03:20:46 pm
Good tip about kicking it over with the ignition off to bring up the oil level. The bike had been on the sidestand with the engine off and I had just put it on the centrestand also with the engine off, knowing this would give a false level in the glass but no matter as I hadn't planned on checking it at this time.

Then I saw your message so I had to try it. The level showed very low, barely appearing in the glass at all, which was expected given that I hadn't followed the engine running on centrestand procedure. Kicked it over about three times and sure enough the level rose to where it should be. Brilliant.  :)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 03:31:56 pm by ren »


Mad4Bullets

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Reply #21 on: September 16, 2020, 06:43:52 pm
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but I was under the impression that kicking the bike over a few times with the ignition off actually primed the oil pump and built up the oil pressure prior to firing it up. I had always heard that was standard operating procedure for an old bike that had been sitting for a few days unridden to counter gravity pulling the film of oil off vital engine parts and back towards the sump. Now here I read that kicking it through empties the pump? That seems counter intuitive to me. Maybe kicking the motor over a few times causes the Rotor/Reluctor assembly to kick the oil back into the sight glass area of the side cover as explained by Haggis. Anyone care to comment?  I do agree that kicking the engine through results in the oil level rising, but is that really a result of the oil pump emptying, or something else entirely?  I'm just trying to understand what's really happening. Thanks very much.


Haggis

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Reply #22 on: September 16, 2020, 07:55:39 pm
You are correct in your assumption.  Kicking it over spins the rotor and also the crank flywheels all of which pick up oil and throw it up and back into the gearbox area and raises the oil level where the window is.
Nothing to do with the pump and you you would have to be kicking at some speed to get any oil pressure.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 08:39:47 pm by Haggis »
Off route, recalculate?


Mad4Bullets

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Reply #23 on: September 16, 2020, 09:31:37 pm
Thanks very much for the clarification and additional diagrams Haggis. You've done a great deal to eliminate the mystery so often tied to the oil level within the site window. Suddenly it all makes sense.


johno

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Reply #24 on: September 17, 2020, 09:29:44 am
I have always done all of the above and not had any problems.
Another thing I do is when starting the engine either by kick or starter for the first time that day I do this with the bike on the main stand, then watch the sight glass to ensure the oil level rises as the engine warms up, gives me a bit of confidence that all is good to go  ;)
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ren

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Reply #25 on: September 17, 2020, 09:51:32 am
Thanks Haggis for the informative pictures and explanation.


Arizoni

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Reply #26 on: September 20, 2020, 01:31:08 am
Mad4Bullets:
Rotating the crankshaft does not drain the oil pump.
The oil pump also does not need priming.  It is a gerotor style oil pump and it doesn't lose it's prime when it is just sitting there.

As for starting the engine with the motorcycle resting on the side stand, there is no problem with oil pressure falling.  The oil pickup is below the oil level in the oil tank even with the bike leaned over.

If the oil pump were to suck air and cause the oil pressure to drop to dangerous levels you would know almost immediately because the hydraulic valve lifters would pump down and the valves would make a loud racket.  As long as you don't hear the lifters making sounds like a punk rock drummer beating hell out of his drums, all is good. :)
Jim
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1999 Miata 10th Anniversary


Mad4Bullets

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Reply #27 on: September 20, 2020, 03:13:28 am
Thank you very much for the further clarification Arizoni. The replies to this particular post have been very educational to me, and have gone a long way in separating myth from reality. I learn something new here every day and I am grateful.