Author Topic: Stock Interceptor vs my free-breathing Interceptor  (Read 5392 times)

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mwmosser

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Reply #15 on: August 05, 2020, 04:58:17 pm
I do like how this topic gets at the meta-level "head vs heart" discussions that are really at the center of all these mod posts. I also bought the RE as much for a low-cost fun bike to ride on weekends as anything, and while I've made a few minor mods to things like mirrors and an LED H4 bulb (not yet a full drop-in LED headlight, though that may be in future), I haven't done anything engine-wise and don't plan to. Like Cyril, I'm not keen on putting $1500+ into a $6500 bike for gains that I don't really need. Want? Sure. But the bike is pretty good as is and I'm happy with it. Plus I have a kid headed to uni soon and $1500 might buy a textbook or two  ;D
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Breezin

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Reply #16 on: August 05, 2020, 05:07:26 pm
$1500 might buy a textbook or two  ;D

Yes, but will it make any difference to performance?  :o  ;D


GlennF

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Reply #17 on: August 05, 2020, 05:21:05 pm
I tend to be a pragmatic. I bought a 6500€, 47HP bike. Because i liked its overall look, feel and engine. It just happened to be a royal enfield.

For the money of getting that same bike up to 50HP (and getting it not street legal in the process), i would buy a triumph street twin in a heartbeat. It has more displacement, a 65HP engine, better suspensions, better finish.

Do not get me wrong, I like my interceptor, and it is totally worth its cost. I just find hard to justify spending that kind of money on an engine to get so little in return.

I have nothing against people doing it anyway. Not everyone cares about the money side when passions shows its head. I am doing the same with my race car (although with VERY different result. OEM power: 171HP. current: 600ish. And it revs higher than my int. Turbos are great  8)) And just like it, it IS a serious money pit !

Yep ... I am happy enough with my B5 for now but may eventually upgrade (though to be honest I do not ride the B5 enough to justify its annual registration and insurance neverlone upgrading to a newer bike) and if I do trade up it will probably be either a stock 47HP  Interceptor or a stock 52 HP Guzzi V7 . 


jimku

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Reply #18 on: August 05, 2020, 07:38:25 pm
If you remove all of the Powertronics stuff and replace it with a Booster Plug, there might be something here that is meaningful to most of us who are not going to spend the bucks for a Powertronics or dyno tuning.
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NVDucati

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Reply #19 on: August 05, 2020, 08:18:47 pm
If you remove all of the Powertronics stuff and replace it with a Booster Plug, there might be something here that is meaningful to most of us who are not going to spend the bucks for a Powertronics or dyno tuning.
As I have said before, I don't have a dyno (bummer). But I've been around them and I'm willing to stick my neck out with a observation.
When you look at both bikes results, Red HD Mick's and blue the stocker, you will notice that the lines are pretty much parallel. Just that HD Mick's are better across the board. You will also notice that the blue OEM line gets wiggly near the top of the rev range. I think that is where the stock system struggles for air.
That tells me that both the factory team and Mick's guys know exactly how to map a fuel injection system. It must have killed the factory guys to choke down that engine in order to meet the licensing and insurance standards.
I also think that if you added a green line representing the BoosterPlug with the other upgrades it would cling to the underside of the red line. That is based on a wild guess and 40+ years of experience. ;)
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mwmosser

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Reply #20 on: August 05, 2020, 08:48:17 pm
That tells me that both the factory team and Mick's guys know exactly how to map a fuel injection system. It must have killed the factory guys to choke down that engine in order to meet the licensing and insurance standards.

It's also emission standards. Not going to get into a flamey kind of discussion about all that, but Euro 4 and Euro 5 emission standards are tough for a reason, and they are the global standard (even more than EPA). Yes, bikes are a small percentage of overall vehicles on the road. Yes, diesel trucks and lawnmowers and any big ICE is going to be emitting more than any of our no-longer-compliant bike with a cat delete and re-tune.

Yes, bikers are notoriously independent and crotchety and hate to be told what to do  8).

All that does not change the fact that manufacturers are making bikes to meet emissions requirements. We're free to modify as we wish. But engineers have to design to standards that allow bikes to be sold.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 08:56:25 pm by mwmosser »
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NVDucati

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Reply #21 on: August 05, 2020, 09:22:37 pm
It's also emission standards. Not going to get into a flamey kind of discussion about all that, but Euro 4 and Euro 5 emission standards are tough for a reason, and they are the global standard (even more than EPA). Yes, bikes are a small percentage of overall vehicles on the road. Yes, diesel trucks and lawnmowers and any big ICE is going to be emitting more than any of our no-longer-compliant bike with a cat delete and re-tune.

Yes, bikers are notoriously independent and crotchety and hate to be told what to do  8).

All that does not change the fact that manufacturers are making bikes to meet emissions requirements. We're free to modify as we wish. But engineers have to design to standards that allow bikes to be sold.

I'm pretty sure that it was not a coincidence that RE hit exactly the HP number for the "junior" license barrier and in turn a demarcation line for insurance rates. All the global market bike do have emission standards, you are right about that. But bikes can meet those standards at 104hp on up. The global operators limitations were based on displacement not long ago and still is in some countries. But then the midsize bike got faster and faster.

So you are certainly not wrong. However, I'm pretty sure that the horsepower was on the cover sheet of their business plan for this model.  ;)
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mwmosser

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Reply #22 on: August 05, 2020, 10:09:33 pm
I'm pretty sure that it was not a coincidence that RE hit exactly the HP number for the "junior" license barrier and in turn a demarcation line for insurance rates. All the global market bike do have emission standards, you are right about that. But bikes can meet those standards at 104hp on up. The global operators limitations were based on displacement not long ago and still is in some countries. But then the midsize bike got faster and faster.

So you are certainly not wrong. However, I'm pretty sure that the horsepower was on the cover sheet of their business plan for this model.  ;)

Great points. Totally agree with the A2 and other graduated license standards driving this as well. TBH, I wish we had those here in the US as well. But that's a thread for another day....
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08crd

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Reply #23 on: August 06, 2020, 07:32:36 am
We all go through it, when I was a young bloke I bought an XS2 650 Yamaha, bored it stuck in 650 Benelli pistons and still got my ar$e kicked by a Honda 4.
Now I've gone full circle, up to 2.3 rocket and now back to a 650 Interceptor and loving it.


Starpeve

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Reply #24 on: August 06, 2020, 08:24:08 am
For those who have been waiting for facts and figures without the bullshit. Here is a stock 650 Interceptor and my 650 Interceptor that is fitted with S&S Cycle, Inc. mufflers, pipes from Royal Enfield Sydney / Revelry Cycles, DNA High Performance Filters air filter, and tuned with a PowerTRONIC - Plug-In Performance ECU.

The blue lines are the stock bike. The red lines are my bike.

The tuning was performed by Dave and Vince at Sydney Dyno Pty Ltd

Don't just look at the peak horsepower numbers, look at the improvement in torque and horsepower everywhere. This is a difference that you will definitely notice. It's not a race bike but it is a bucket of fun to ride. Especially with the quickshifter.

Thank you to Will and Santina at Royal Enfield Sydney
That’s something like a mean 10% difference. Good on you mate, those graphs are hard to argue with. Although I bet Cyril will!
Thanks, Steve
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Starpeve

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Reply #25 on: August 06, 2020, 08:29:05 am
Thanks HD MIck for doing this and publishing it.
I know that some folks will dismiss "up-tuning" a midsize motorcycle when you could just buy a faster 1150cc something. Then they dismiss the bigger bike because nobody uses all that power ... etc. blah de blah.
That is missing the point entirely. A point that you make and I agree with. Sweet running motorcycles -especially midsize ones - are a real joy to ride. My bike has gone from a really great bike to a _ I love this freak'n motorcycle!
Well put and my opinion entirely 👍
Steve
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Starpeve

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Reply #26 on: August 06, 2020, 10:15:28 am
As I have said before, I don't have a dyno (bummer). But I've been around them and I'm willing to stick my neck out with a observation.
When you look at both bikes results, Red HD Mick's and blue the stocker, you will notice that the lines are pretty much parallel. Just that HD Mick's are better across the board. You will also notice that the blue OEM line gets wiggly near the top of the rev range. I think that is where the stock system struggles for air.
That tells me that both the factory team and Mick's guys know exactly how to map a fuel injection system. It must have killed the factory guys to choke down that engine in order to meet the licensing and insurance standards.
I also think that if you added a green line representing the BoosterPlug with the other upgrades it would cling to the underside of the red line. That is based on a wild guess and 40+ years of experience. ;)
Rational contributions as usual👍
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Starpeve

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Reply #27 on: August 06, 2020, 10:20:49 am
I'm pretty sure that it was not a coincidence that RE hit exactly the HP number for the "junior" license barrier and in turn a demarcation line for insurance rates. All the global market bike do have emission standards, you are right about that. But bikes can meet those standards at 104hp on up. The global operators limitations were based on displacement not long ago and still is in some countries. But then the midsize bike got faster and faster.

So you are certainly not wrong. However, I'm pretty sure that the horsepower was on the cover sheet of their business plan for this model.  ;)
As I've said elsewhere, when these bikes become popular enough, I'm sure someone will 'crack' the stock ECU and create aftermarket maps which will will significantly improve the performance with few other mods required, other than filters and exhausts. Steve
I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy...


Warwick

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Reply #28 on: August 06, 2020, 11:24:09 am
Thanks for publishing the dyno chart. I look forward to seeing how all modifications impact performance. Keep em coming
cheers and beers
Warwick
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cyril31

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Reply #29 on: August 06, 2020, 11:27:55 am
We all go through it, when I was a young bloke I bought an XS2 650 Yamaha, bored it stuck in 650 Benelli pistons and still got my ar$e kicked by a Honda 4.
Now I've gone full circle, up to 2.3 rocket and now back to a 650 Interceptor and loving it.

Did something similar. I was once the owner of a 1200 bandit, that i fitted with a 1100gsxr head and carbs for good measure. The chassis was already not up to the torque the oem engine could bear, so now i could feel it twist proportionnally to the throttle i gave it.
Then the engine was destroyed by the mechanic i paid to set valve clearance, and he happened to have one for sale, only this one had been fitted with 1340cc upgrade. So it went int, for cheap.
Eventually i grew tired of destroying tyres and spending more money on gas than on a car. I also felt like i was going to die on every corner entry, exit and straight line, so sold the engine, got an oem one, sold the bike, and got a twin 650 that i kept for around 10 years.
And then sold that one for the interceptor. Which is a great bike  8)