Author Topic: Rev limit in 1st gear  (Read 1647 times)

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JettaKnight

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Reply #60 on: July 01, 2020, 03:12:11 am
But I want my amp to go to 11 not 10. Thats why I got an 11 knob made.


After riding a bike that topped out at 6, I'll perfectly happy with 10.  ;)


JettaKnight

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Reply #61 on: July 01, 2020, 03:18:12 am
You really think you could do anything bad to a motor by hitting once in a while the rev limiter?

Please explain.

Knowing where rev-limiter kicks in is a safety issue.

You MUST know where it kicks in, that's the point where you are going to lose the traction.

Out of thousand members of this forum, not even one hit the rev limiter in first gear?  ;D ;D

Hitting the rev-limiter is NOT "mistreating" things. Where did you get that idea?  :D :D

Safety issue?

I must have missed that chapter in Proficient Motorcycling.


If you're worried about power loss between 7,000 and 7,500 in 1st gear, then you bought the wrong bike.


twocoolgliders

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Reply #62 on: July 01, 2020, 07:42:20 am
There are plenty videos on the Net, and diagrams too...showing how to determine the "optimum" shift points for top acceleration performance....it does involve running up to, or at least close to, red line in each gear....

Anybody "worried" about such things, regarding the RE 650.....has purchased the completely wrong motorcycle!

The RE is not designed to be used in that fashion...(this bike is not one for max traction cornering either)

I'm not saying you can't get pretty good performance out of the RE...but...for "sport" riding...get a Sport Bike..

I suggest looking into a "Liter bike"....CBR RR.....etc.


Cookie






If you hit the limiter and upshift, you are not going to accelerate any quicker than if you shift slightly earlier without the engine being cut by the limiter. What power there is after the limit is static, not increasing. The limiter isn't a shift indicator, but a protection against abuse. There are shift lights that display the ideal shift point to avoid the limiter or one can simply use a handy tachometer. I've unintentionally hit the limits on my bikes while street racing, often followed by some special words. YMMV.


Bilgemaster

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Reply #63 on: July 01, 2020, 09:06:54 am
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.


Starpeve

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Reply #64 on: July 01, 2020, 09:20:54 am
The problem people are having with you is not that you’re hitting the rev limiter,  it’s that you haven’t run the motor in first. It displays a total disregard for your bike. And why are you idiots suggesting that he tries this on a demo bike??? So he screws some other poor sucker over.? Great.
My brain hurts


Haggisman

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Reply #65 on: July 01, 2020, 10:39:57 am
Apparently you can disable the rev limiter on some of the 50cc 2 stroke scooters by cutting 1 wire. The guy who told me they could go faster then, it significantly shortened the engines life span. He said he didn't care because they were very cheap second hand and he enjoyed wringing their necks to destruction.
Reminds me of a Blade Runner movie statement "The flame that burns twice as bright lasts half as long".


twocoolgliders

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Reply #66 on: July 01, 2020, 11:03:08 am
Cookie sez:

"A motorcycle which goes twice as fast, burns 4 times the fuel, and requires 8 times the horsepower!"


-Cookie


"The flame that burns twice as bright lasts half as long".


twocoolgliders

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Reply #67 on: July 01, 2020, 11:05:29 am



LOL....

Another reason to never buy a "demo" bike, or a car from a car rental company!

I think those who suggested revving out a dealer's demo bike, were of course in jest....


Cookie




The problem people are having with you is not that you’re hitting the rev limiter,  it’s that you haven’t run the motor in first. It displays a total disregard for your bike. And why are you idiots suggesting that he tries this on a demo bike??? So he screws some other poor sucker over.? Great.


twocoolgliders

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Reply #68 on: July 01, 2020, 11:06:13 am
Ya gotta love this forum...some really funny shite here!


Cookie





agagliardi

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Reply #69 on: July 01, 2020, 12:25:49 pm
Hello dcolak.
A curious phenomena that must have a reason. The replies indicate that nobody revs their RE's that high. However why is the bike behaving so? I would think that the limits are determined by computer chip calibration. I believe that in the past rev limiting was mechanical, and fuel or spark was cut off at redline. I doubt that in this day and age, this is engineered mechanically, but rather by computer. I would bet that all the bikes behave the same way, and that the chips are calibrated so.  It would make sense, from a transmission syncro gear protection point of view, as most missed shifts would occur 1st to 2nd, so limiting revs in 1st would be a good thing.

Maybe one of our more experience mechanics can elaborate
1988 Super Magna, 2000 Harley Softail, 2004 Hayabusa,
2020 Royal Enfield Interceptor, 2004 Corvette


ace.cafe

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Reply #70 on: July 01, 2020, 12:39:33 pm
Why not? What do you think would happen?  :)

If you think you would break something, you are simply wrong.

Actually, it is you who is wrong. In first gear the load is very small, nearly like revving it to the moon in neutral. As alluded previously by another member, the engine can(and will) rev freely beyond the rev limiter rpm under such conditions of very fast wind-up speed...sort of like missing a shift. The rev limiter may not save the engine, or maybe it will. You are taking your chances.

I believe that due to your lack of experience, you think rev limiters prevent engine damage, and this is not so. In fact, even riding on the rev limiter frequently can cause engine damage by the upset the limiter creates when it actuates.

While this isn't an answer to your 7000 rpm question, and I cannot answer that question because I ride an Enfield single, it may help you to understand that reaching the top rpms is best done in the higher gears, and not first gear, due to the wind-up speed.

Good luck on your question about 7000 rpm hesitation. Maybe shifting it at 7000 or lower might even be a good idea, unless you are a professional Enfield drag racer for money.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 12:44:18 pm by ace.cafe »
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bikerken

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Reply #71 on: July 01, 2020, 12:46:49 pm
let me know the reg number of your bike , so as i will never be tempted to buy it.


dcolak

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Reply #72 on: July 01, 2020, 01:47:10 pm
Actually, it is you who is wrong. In first gear the load is very small, nearly like revving it to the moon in neutral. As alluded previously by another member, the engine can(and will) rev freely beyond the rev limiter rpm under such conditions of very fast wind-up speed...sort of like missing a shift. The rev limiter may not save the engine, or maybe it will. You are taking your chances.

I believe that due to your lack of experience, you think rev limiters prevent engine damage, and this is not so. In fact, even riding on the rev limiter frequently can cause engine damage by the upset the limiter creates when it actuates.

While this isn't an answer to your 7000 rpm question, and I cannot answer that question because I ride an Enfield single, it may help you to understand that reaching the top rpms is best done in the higher gears, and not first gear, due to the wind-up speed.

Good luck on your question about 7000 rpm hesitation. Maybe shifting it at 7000 or lower might even be a good idea, unless you are a professional Enfield drag racer for money.

I am not sure I follow you.

One is simply accelerating in 1st gear and wants to change gear at top HP point which is at 7.250 RPM. It is no "free revving" it is simply riding the motorcycle.

Unfortunately, bike bogs down at 7.000 RPM and then continues to rise slowly to 8.000 RPM where the rev-limiter is actually set.

No other gear does that, they all freely rev to 8.000 RPM without bogging down at 7.000 RPM.

Regarding the "engine break-in" there are many different theories. Many scientific studies. Conclusion is, with modern engines, that is no longer an issue. Actually all new motorcycles have their engines "broken in" and revved high as a sky before even leaving factories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpoglovyy_8

https://youtu.be/BM_sM9tsmoY?t=312

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ruk6GLJgbA

"I work at an OEM'er building big diesel engines. Every engine is tested for 15 minutes. 5 minutes of heating up, making sure all pressures are correct, nothing is leaking etc. Then after 5 minutes its full throttle all the way. Cold oil, somewhat warm coolant.  The last few minutes are for cooling down. Those engines don't burn a drop of oil. Nothing even remotely in the manual about 'breaking in'.
Its full send from the factory and it works."

So, no one on this big forum has ever used the whole available RPM range in 1st gear?

That is unfortunate.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 02:17:18 pm by dcolak »
Triumph 800XC, Royal Enfield 650GT


ace.cafe

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Reply #73 on: July 01, 2020, 02:08:01 pm
Obviously, you don't follow me, so here's something else you probably won't follow.

On virtually all of the available dyno charts for the 650 twin, none of them show a peak hp point of 7250 rpm.
They actually peak at 6500-7000 rpm, depending on the example tested.

So your information about 7250 rpm would seem unsubstantiated in the real world.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 02:15:12 pm by ace.cafe »
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dcolak

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Reply #74 on: July 01, 2020, 02:18:15 pm
Obviously, you don't follow me, so here's something else you probably won't follow.

On virtually all of the available dyno charts for the 650 twin, none of them show a peak hp point of 7250 rpm.
They actually peak at 6500-7000 rpm, depending on the example tested.

So your information about 7250 rpm would seem unsubstantiated in the real world.

Look closely on those dyno runs, see how they hit against the rev limiter several times.

None of them bog down at 7000 rpm.

7250 rpm HP max is what is in GT 650's tech description.
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