Author Topic: Putting oil into the gasoline tank?  (Read 2628 times)

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quebbeck

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on: March 30, 2020, 06:45:58 pm
Hi,

I just got a new Royal Enfield Himalayan and someone told me to add 50ml of two-stroke oil when tanking 10l of fuel (to break-in the engine or so). It sounds very weird to me and I am scared of breaking my first bike if I would follow this advice. The person keeps insisting that I should do that, but I would like to ask some people familiar with the bike about their opinion on that.

 I googled and apparently people do that on diesel cars and with old bikes and motor scooters, as well as in the sports sector. Any experience on a Royal Enfield?


Stanley

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Reply #1 on: March 30, 2020, 09:53:04 pm
That's a bad idea for many reasons. Read and follow the manual so you won't end up with no warranty coverage. Your bike just needs gentle riding to break it in.


Richard230

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Reply #2 on: March 30, 2020, 11:41:28 pm
I guess you could add top cylinder oil to your gas if you want.   ???
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Bilgemaster

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Reply #3 on: March 31, 2020, 12:03:39 am
As you say, lots of guys pushing around older air-cooled iron (think old Triumphs, Nortons, BSAs and such) swear by routinely adding a splash of 2-stroke to their fuel, and it seems to do them the power of good. It's also just the ticket for older fixer-upper bikes or other vehicles being resurrected after not having run in a long while.  I myself run an ounce or so (about 30 ml) of something called Marvel Mystery Oil per tankful of fuel in my primitivo-design "Iron Belly" Bullet. I premix it in 89 octane (as per R+N/2 measurement used in USA) ethanol-free with some StaBil 360 fuel stabilizer as well. Unlike my other more humdrum vehicles that just get that regular 10% ethanol spew at the pump, my Bullet's on a steady diet of the good stuff from fuel cans, as are my outboards, generators, mower and other small engines.

Now, whether adding 2-stroke or anything else to the fuel of a more modern engine like yours is a good idea, what with its finicky  catalytic knick-knacks and electronic fripperies is debatable. My 2005 Bullet is actually the newest vehicle I own, so I don't know how much solid guidance I could offer anybody with a vehicle warranty. I frankly doubt I'll ever have one. I guess I'm just not a "new car smell" kinda guy.
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.

(Legal enough to pass muster if they don't look too closely in Woodbridge, Virginia, where the buses don't run at night, holidays or weekends and I'm a contender for 'Village Idiot')


gizzo

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Reply #4 on: April 17, 2020, 11:41:46 pm
I wouldn't. If it needed it,  the manual would say to do it.  The rings and bore need a small amount of friction to bed in in any case. The oil might stop that happening.  It's why brand new engines use mineral break-in oil and swapfor synthetic at the first oil change. 

I use an upper cylinder lubricant additive on my classic Ducati. It was made in the leaded fuel era. But same as bilgemaster, I don't bother with it in newer bikes.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 09:55:24 pm by gizzo »
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olhogrider

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Reply #5 on: April 20, 2020, 02:25:58 am
It will foul your spark plug but it will smell good and smoke like it's the 1960s ;D


tooseevee

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Reply #6 on: August 07, 2020, 12:03:36 pm
Hi,

I just got a new Royal Enfield Himalayan and someone told me to add 50ml of two-stroke oil when tanking 10l of fuel (to break-in the engine or so). It sounds very weird to me and I am scared of breaking my first bike if I would follow this advice. The person keeps insisting that I should do that, but I would like to ask some people familiar with the bike about their opinion on that.


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heloego

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Reply #7 on: August 08, 2020, 06:16:50 am
Tell that person he's an idiot.
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Freddy1

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Reply #8 on: August 11, 2020, 06:45:20 am
I am a bit of an idiot  ;D because, from 20.000 km, I put about 20 ml of oil for 2t at each refueling (it becomes  0.2% about oil-fuel mixture). Sometimes the petrol pump, in the morning when it was turned on, meowed like a kitten for 1/2 second. Now it doesn't meow anymore. I also believe that this little oil is useful for lubricating the moving part of the injector. However, 0.2% of oil is very low and does not hurt, no problems have been encountered.


Richard230

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Reply #9 on: August 11, 2020, 02:53:23 pm
Well, there is always "top cylinder oil". I have been using that stuff in my gas off and on for about 50 years. While I have never had a problem with the additive, I am not sure that it does much of anything at all, other than deplete your pocketbook.  ::) Most modern motorcycle manufacturers always say not to use any gasoline or oil additives in their vehicles.   :)
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tooseevee

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Reply #10 on: August 12, 2020, 02:56:03 pm
Well, there is always "top cylinder oil". I have been using that stuff in my gas off and on for about 50 years. While I have never had a problem with the additive, I am not sure that it does much of anything at all, other than deplete your pocketbook.  ::) Most modern motorcycle manufacturers always say not to use any gasoline or oil additives in their vehicles.   :)

         I used top oil faithfully in everything through the whole '60s and a lot of the '70s because I used Amoco White that whole time until finally the last station near me closed its doors.  Never had any valve issues from unleaded. Tore down one Volvo 1.6 L (PV544) with 80K on it, clean as a whistle inside. Punched it out to 1.8 and put it back together. Lovely until I was almost killed in it. '68. Headon. My own lane. 6 weeks in hospital. Totalled.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 03:02:25 pm by tooseevee »
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #11 on: September 23, 2020, 05:33:36 am
Here's just the ticket:

Blendzall #460 Racing Castor Lube
The finest race-proven racing castor oil available in the world today. Unsurpassed in quality & performance.
* For use in all 2 cycle engines.
* Cleanest burning degummed castor lubricants available.
* Will not foul plugs.
* Eliminates engine wear.
* Designed for extreme temperatures.
* Blends with all fuels.
* Contains a seal conditioner, preservative and rust inhibitor.
* Contains no acids, nitrates, or rust promoting synthetics.
* Race proven since 1959.


I can't say it'll make your Bullet faster, but any old racer standing downwind will break into a big smile... ;D    - ACR -


A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


cyrusb

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Reply #12 on: September 23, 2020, 02:33:54 pm
And so the never ending search goes on for "Miracle in a can".No one knows for sure but I think it began when the first shaft rotated in its first bushing. Now that's not to say there isn't some logic here. For instance four stroke inboard boat engines benefit from Mystery Oil injectors since there is never any vacuum in their upper ends. In effect they are always pulling uphill, never coasting, and the mystery oil provides much needed upper cylinder lube. But I have seen many Super Oils, Super Additives, come and go. Nothing beats proper maintenance and a little mechanical sympathy.  But, when Miracle in a can is recommended by car/bike manufacturers I'll take a six pack
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Richard230

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Reply #13 on: September 23, 2020, 03:04:10 pm
I love the smell of burnt castor oil in the morning. It smells like victory!  ;D  (Especially when being burned by a big British racing single.  :)  )
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


cyrusb

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Reply #14 on: September 23, 2020, 04:36:07 pm
I love the smell of burnt castor oil in the morning. It smells like victory!  ;D  (Especially when being burned by a big British racing single.  :)  )
Loved the aroma in my old 2 stroke dirt bikes. I was never sure if that premix was actually burning the castor. At the end of the day I could pour it out of the exspansion chamber. What looked like smoke may have been vapor .
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tooseevee

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Reply #15 on: September 23, 2020, 07:34:39 pm
I love the smell of burnt castor oil in the morning. It smells like victory!  ;D  (Especially when being burned by a big British racing single.  :)  )

            "Duvall Rules" :) ;) and Coppolla  :)
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Keef Sparrow

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Reply #16 on: September 23, 2020, 08:38:11 pm
Don't do it on a modern bike - oil and catalytic converters don't mix. Fuel (petrol) injection systems are not designed for it either. If this was a good idea it would be mentioned in the owner's manual.
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #17 on: September 25, 2020, 07:24:44 am
This here be dinosaur country, son... thud...chuff...thud...chuff... ;D ;D ;D - ACR -
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


zimmemr

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Reply #18 on: December 23, 2020, 08:42:21 pm
Don't do it! The idea of the oil control ring is to prevent oil from reaching the combustion chamber. Oil in the fuel will lean out the mixture, especially on a carburetor equipped bike, the oil displaces the fuel as moves through the jets, will foul the plug and stick the rings. If it was required there would be an oil injection tank next to the fuel tank. Yes, I know all about Marvel Mystery oil, it's great for cleaning air tools...


AzCal Retred

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Reply #19 on: December 24, 2020, 04:31:21 am
Wrong side of the piston. The oil control ring applies to liquid thrown onto the cylinder walls, not a minute fraction of oil blended into the fuel. Mixtures richer that 16:1 are the only ones I know of where there is enough oil to begin to affect fuel viscosity & flow rate and necessitate jetting changes. The 100:1 or less blends suggested here just affect corrosion or exhaust smell. In my desert days the sons of affluent folks would run 100:1 or even 120:1 blends in their two strokes to gain some microscopic HP advantage. Daddy was soon replacing crankshafts on Sonny-Boys subsidized racer and the blazingly fast first place experts were still running EZ-on-the-mechanical-innards "low-performance" 26:1 to 40:1 blends. Skill is an amazing thing to watch...
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


zimmemr

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Reply #20 on: December 24, 2020, 04:58:26 am
Wrong side of the piston. The oil control ring applies to liquid thrown onto the cylinder walls, not a minute fraction of oil blended into the fuel. Mixtures richer that 16:1 are the only ones I know of where there is enough oil to begin to affect fuel viscosity & flow rate and necessitate jetting changes. The 100:1 or less blends suggested here just affect corrosion or exhaust smell. In my desert days the sons of affluent folks would run 100:1 or even 120:1 blends in their two strokes to gain some microscopic HP advantage. Daddy was soon replacing crankshafts on Sonny-Boys subsidized racer and the blazingly fast first place experts were still running EZ-on-the-mechanical-innards "low-performance" 26:1 to 40:1 blends. Skill is an amazing thing to watch...

All your points are valid, especially in the minute quantities you use in your examples, though I might quibble that anything richer than 30:1 had an adverse effect on my Bultaco Astro,'s jetting but that was a two-stroke short tracker, running at sea level, not a desert racer. I still don't think adding any oil to a modern four stroke's fuel is a great idea. But I admit not much smells better than an engine running a genuine racing Castor oil. ;)


zimmemr

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Reply #21 on: December 24, 2020, 05:02:24 am
Here's just the ticket:

Blendzall #460 Racing Castor Lube
The finest race-proven racing castor oil available in the world today. Unsurpassed in quality & performance.
* For use in all 2 cycle engines.
* Cleanest burning degummed castor lubricants available.
* Will not foul plugs.
* Eliminates engine wear.
* Designed for extreme temperatures.
* Blends with all fuels.
* Contains a seal conditioner, preservative and rust inhibitor.
* Contains no acids, nitrates, or rust promoting synthetics.
* Race proven since 1959.


I can't say it'll make your Bullet faster, but any old racer standing downwind will break into a big smile... ;D    - ACR -

It's also a great lubricant if you get stuck behind a guy that's burning it for a lot of laps, and I don't mean that in a good way ;) ;)


AzCal Retred

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Reply #22 on: December 24, 2020, 07:13:48 pm
I've read about the WW1 pilots being affected the same way after spending flight time behind their castor oil spewing rotaries...the "clean" air war, eh?  :o
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zimmemr

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Reply #23 on: December 24, 2020, 08:16:12 pm
I've read about the WW1 pilots being affected the same way after spending flight time behind their castor oil spewing rotaries...the "clean" air war, eh?  :o

I've heard that as well. I'll bet there were some embarrassing and hurried cockpit exits. My mother (91) told me that her mother use to make all the kids take a teaspoon of it once a week to keep them "regular."


heloego

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Reply #24 on: January 03, 2021, 04:22:54 pm
My mother did that for awhile to all six of us kids. We hated the taste, but there's always "that one kid", a friend next door, who claimed he loved the stuff. Time proved us correct that there was something definitely "wrong" about that lad.  ::)
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Karl Fenn

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Reply #25 on: February 22, 2021, 11:56:42 pm
I'm sure if this old wives tale had any validity engine manufactures would mention it, the best way to break an engine in is to take it easy, two stroke oil might build up carbon on the piston.