Author Topic: Pinging  (Read 3505 times)

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gizzo

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on: December 20, 2019, 12:02:08 pm
Today going to work in the heat, the CGT was pinging taking off from the lights or accelerating at rpms it's usually happy with. Had to be pretty gentle and use more revs than usual to get a ping free getaway. Coming home after the cool change had hit, it was back to normal. Temp going to work was 45 deg c,  so prolly a bit warmer on the road. Coming home was much nicer at around 34 deg. 
Just an observation. Maybe the PC V needs a hot weather map with retarded ignition.
simon from south Australia
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ace.cafe

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Reply #1 on: December 20, 2019, 02:00:03 pm
Try some premium fuel or octane booster.
Xylene(the paint thinner) works good with a 5% add mix. Same with toluene. Both should be available at paint/hardware stores at lower cost than pre-bottled octane boost products that are weak and overpriced. I recommend limiting it to 5% add mix. Theoretically you can do a bit more, but probably not a good idea.

Both of those chemicals are actually commonly used as octane additives in premium gasoline formulas that you get at the pump.
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gizzo

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Reply #2 on: December 20, 2019, 05:32:43 pm
That's a great idea. I even have some xylene in my shed. Use it for thinning Goop. I'll give it a try. Hopefully I don't have to go riding in that stupid hot weather though. We just had 5 days over 40 deg.  I'm not into it.
simon from south Australia
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jez

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Reply #3 on: December 21, 2019, 12:41:47 am
If that doesn't work try a colder plug


gizzo

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Reply #4 on: December 21, 2019, 02:44:52 am
It's all good. It doesn't get ridden very often in that kind of heat. Thanks for the input though. I could probably get away with putting a tank of 98 in it on those days.
simon from south Australia
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SSdriver

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Reply #5 on: December 21, 2019, 02:31:31 pm
If it hasn't been doing this before, Could just be water in fuel?
Just a thought...Jimmy
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gizzo

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Reply #6 on: December 21, 2019, 03:55:13 pm
Not that. I'm pretty sure it was just the excessive temperature that day.
But you raise a point: if there was water, how would you get it out? We can't run the tank on reserve to let any water drain away. My wife's monster had an extremely rusty tank from the water sitting in there for so long. Until the side of the tank rusted through. Was a big job rebuilding that.
simon from south Australia
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ace.cafe

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Reply #7 on: December 21, 2019, 04:38:29 pm
Not that. I'm pretty sure it was just the excessive temperature that day.
But you raise a point: if there was water, how would you get it out? We can't run the tank on reserve to let any water drain away. My wife's monster had an extremely rusty tank from the water sitting in there for so long. Until the side of the tank rusted through. Was a big job rebuilding that.

Gas dryer additive.
It is basically a gas line anti-freeze product consisting of alcohol, which is hygroscopic and absorbs water from the gasoline. It then passes thru more normally.
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Richard230

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Reply #8 on: December 21, 2019, 04:41:45 pm
Gas dryer additive.
It is basically a gas line anti-freeze product consisting of alcohol, which is hygroscopic and absorbs water from the gasoline. It then passes thru more normally.

So should we be happy that a lot of the gasoline in the U.S. contains at least 10% ethanol?   ::)
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ace.cafe

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Reply #9 on: December 21, 2019, 05:27:52 pm
So should we be happy that a lot of the gasoline in the U.S. contains at least 10% ethanol?   ::)
For a winter formulation, there are some advantages to the alcohol. Cold weather causes water to condense out of the air.
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KD5ITM

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Reply #10 on: December 21, 2019, 07:21:39 pm
I would avoid ethanol gas at all cost. It doesn't do anything to improve gas mileage. It destroys rubber fuel lines and carburetor seals. It also creates moisture in gasoline and lowers the shelf life of gasoline.

In my GT I use stable ethanol formula each fill up.

In my 61 Willys wagon, 64 Volvo, and 79 Hurst/Olds I run down to the local Municipal Airport where I have access too low lead 100 Avgas without the people complaining. Low lead 100 have gas has no ethanol and has a much much longer shelf life. All of my hot rods only get driven on the weekends and to and from car shows so paying five bucks a gallon isn't that bad when I'm only feeling up every 3 to 6 months. I'm not sure load LED 100 Avgas wouldn't be practical for the GT. So I just add stabil ethanol treatment along with using premium gas.
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gizzo

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Reply #11 on: December 22, 2019, 09:20:45 am
Gas dryer additive.
It is basically a gas line anti-freeze product consisting of alcohol, which is hygroscopic and absorbs water from the gasoline. It then passes thru more normally.
Ah, right. I doubt that's even a thing here. It never goes below freezing, thank goodness. We do have e10 so I  could run a tank of that once in a while I guess.

I did the experiment a whole ago with a jar of petrol with some water, just to see how much gets the alcohol can absorb. It's not much, right?  But as an ongoing thing, it would probably work.  The monster, though, it had about 3litres of water below fuel pump level. Need more than a tank of e10 to soak that up  ;D .the water drain is fixed now, so it shouldn't happen again.

We have e85 here now, too. The street machine crowd have embraced it.
simon from south Australia
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gizzo

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Reply #12 on: December 22, 2019, 09:36:32 am
I would avoid ethanol gas at all cost. It doesn't do anything to improve gas mileage. It destroys rubber fuel lines and carburetor seals. It also creates moisture in gasoline and lowers the shelf life of gasoline.


I'm not too worried about the odd tank of e10 in my bike. It would only be there for a few hours. 
simon from south Australia
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ace.cafe

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Reply #13 on: December 22, 2019, 01:44:27 pm
Ah, right. I doubt that's even a thing here. It never goes below freezing, thank goodness. We do have e10 so I  could run a tank of that once in a while I guess.

I did the experiment a whole ago with a jar of petrol with some water, just to see how much gets the alcohol can absorb. It's not much, right?  But as an ongoing thing, it would probably work.  The monster, though, it had about 3litres of water below fuel pump level. Need more than a tank of e10 to soak that up  ;D .the water drain is fixed now, so it shouldn't happen again.

We have e85 here now, too. The street machine crowd have embraced it.
One of the more popular ones here in the USA is "Heet". It was once basically methanol, but now they have an isopropyl formula.

For 3 liters of water, naturally that would not be solved with an additive. Additives are for small amounts of water condensed out of the atmosphere on cold days.

E85 is great for hot rods because you can run much higher compression and get more power. It might not be so convenient though, if your vehicle is not Flex-Fuel, and has a fixed tune for E85, if fuel stations aren't everywhere.
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Arizoni

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Reply #14 on: December 22, 2019, 11:58:36 pm
I think with a motorcycle that is built in India, made to run in the high temperatures that are found in much of India, on Indian gasoline which isn't the best stuff, the most likely cause of pinging on the Royal Enfield UCE's is the rider is "lugging" the engine while trying to accelerate.

I've often ridden in 108 degree F temperatures using 87 octane gasoline and the only time I've heard a hint of a ping, shifting down a gear before accelerating solved the problem.
Jim
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gizzo

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Reply #15 on: December 23, 2019, 10:18:33 am
Mine spends more time near the rev limiter than at low rpm's but I know what you mean. Just popping away and giving an extra bit of throttle can certainly make it ping. I have the Ace air cleaner, Motad pipe and squish mod so I guess the extra air plus raised compression might have something to do with it. Have the PC V so I can always fool about with more maps. Like I said, it's not a problem, just something I observed on a crazy hot day.

I hear you about the made for Indian conditions thing and that thinking is what makes me feel OK about riding it in such hot weather.
simon from south Australia
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KD5ITM

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Reply #16 on: December 23, 2019, 11:56:32 pm
I'm not too worried about the odd tank of e10 in my bike. It would only be there for a few hours.

It's been about a year since I've checked but the only gas station closest to the Houston area that does not sell 10% ethanol fuel was over 100 miles away. So around here, every tank of gas contains ethanol.
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Arizoni

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Reply #17 on: December 24, 2019, 12:25:01 am
Every time I've checked the web for local gas stations that sell gas without alcohol in it, when I find one and go there, the only thing they have is gasohol.

There is one place that sells "racing gasoline" which is high octane and no alcohol but, they want more than an arm and a leg for each gallon.

No way will I pay that sort of price for just knowing that I don't have any alcohol in my fuel.
Jim
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olhogrider

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Reply #18 on: December 25, 2019, 06:44:32 pm
Every time I've checked the web for local gas stations that sell gas without alcohol in it, when I find one and go there, the only thing they have is gasohol.

There is one place that sells "racing gasoline" which is high octane and no alcohol but, they want more than an arm and a leg for each gallon.

No way will I pay that sort of price for just knowing that I don't have any alcohol in my fuel.

Avgas doesn't have alcohol but most airports won't sell it because they get in trouble. You aren't paying road taxes. They might go for a five gallon can. Also Avgas uses real octane ratings, not the US mishmash of numbers we see at the pump.


hpwaco

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Reply #19 on: December 25, 2019, 08:06:34 pm
Ethanol Free gas is available at at least 2 of the Wall-Mart Murphys stations here in the Waco area at about $.30 more per gallon then regular.   I regularly fill up my GT at the one 2 miles from the house.    I wonder at the volume of sales though and how "fresh" it is and normally add Startron.    Recently saw a Chevron Techron fuel stabilizer ad and may switch.  Only infrequent "pinging" I've experienced was from "lugging" when failing to down shift!


axman88

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Reply #20 on: December 25, 2019, 10:21:19 pm
This website maintains a list of retail sellers who carry ethanol-free gasoline:  https://www.pure-gas.org/

I don't ride a 535, but I noticed some pinging on my 2012 C5 last summer, when trying to maintain 105 kph on a modest upgrade on the local expressway.  Backing off on the throttle a bit dropped my speed below 100 and resolved the issue.  I was running the standard 87 octane swill with 10% ethanol that is sold as "regular" around here and an NGK BPR6ES plug.  Never noticed pinging at any other speed or load condition, and hills are extremely scarce around here.


olhogrider

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Reply #21 on: December 26, 2019, 02:17:40 am
This website maintains a list of retail sellers who carry ethanol-free gasoline:  https://www.pure-gas.org/

I don't ride a 535, but I noticed some pinging on my 2012 C5 last summer, when trying to maintain 105 kph on a modest upgrade on the local expressway.  Backing off on the throttle a bit dropped my speed below 100 and resolved the issue.  I was running the standard 87 octane swill with 10% ethanol that is sold as "regular" around here and an NGK BPR6ES plug.  Never noticed pinging at any other speed or load condition, and hills are extremely scarce around here.

I've looked at this one. The only ones that aren't private trucking company pumps are more than a tankful away😒


ace.cafe

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Reply #22 on: December 26, 2019, 01:21:54 pm
Typically pinging comes at rpms lower than torque peak(~3500) rpm. If you are cruising in top gear and you want to pass a car or something, then downshift a gear to get the rpms up first, and then it is less likely to ping.
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KD5ITM

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Reply #23 on: March 09, 2020, 12:26:48 am
There's a local small airport not too far from me. For the past five or six years I have been able to pull in right up to the pumps and fill up two 5-gallon cans with no problem. All I run in my 79 Hurst/Olds
And 61 Willys Jeep wagon is Avgas LL 100. No ethanol and much longer shelf life. My hot rods are weekend rides. Maybe to and from a local car show. It's easy for a tank of gas to last five or six months if not more.

I'm not sure there would be any advantage in paying $5.50 per gallon for LL 100 just to put it in the GT.
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1964 Volvo PV544 - desert sand
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gizzo

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Reply #24 on: March 09, 2020, 05:07:12 am
I've been letting the PC Autotune at it for a couple weeks now.  Damn it's running well.  It feels so good that some of the character seems to have seeped out, if that makes any sense.  If anyone's looking for a map for a 535 with ace air cleaner, Otto trumpet , Motad exhaust,  squish mod running at sea level-400 meters on 91 (that's 80something for US crew)...
simon from south Australia
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