Author Topic: Save me from selling my E5 Bullet!  (Read 5020 times)

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Rattlebattle

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Reply #30 on: October 24, 2019, 05:11:21 pm
I wouldn't say the engine sounds particularly noisy. I feel that if the intake side is not clogged then it's likely to be fuel starvation at wide throttle openings. Could the fuel pump be partially blocked? Not sure what the flow rate should be on these bikes or whether or not it can be tested in situ. A look at the spark plug might be useful - does it look excessively lean after a fast run? Whilst the ignition timing is non-adjustable, I suppose it's just possible than the rotor was fitted on the crankshaft a little out of alignment - mine has a little play despite having a Woodruff key - ie it's a bit of a sloppy fit. If the timing were a little retarded throughout there range it would restrict performance. This is a real long shot though, but I do wonder why it's never been right. Another possibility is that if you followed the ludicrously low running-in speed suggested in the manual the engine has not run in properly. Have you tried an Italian tune-up - ie given it a good thrashing?
Sic se res habet: fractum est...


Roy L.

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Reply #31 on: October 24, 2019, 08:22:00 pm
Hi Rattlebattle
I ran it in meticulously. Didn't even try to go above 80 for the 1st 10,000kms.
Then it started running like a dream. Great response and power. Just, no decent higher speed performance.
This may be interesting - There's actually a discernable a difference when I fill up with Shell's V-Power petrol.
Could that be due to the cleaning agents in the fuel, I wonder. Hmm. I'm really thinking blockage now..

I love the idea of an Italian Thrashing!
I'm only familiar with the Torquay Thrashing..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv0onXhyLlE


gashousegorilla

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Reply #32 on: October 24, 2019, 11:39:48 pm
Thanks for posting the video Matt.  I wouldn't be surprised if some of the guys in here could diagnose most engine problems from a short video with audio like that.

Does anyone else think that the valve clatter audible in Matt's video was a bit more than should be expected, or is that about normal?

   A little clattery when he first rev'd it after starting it ?    But better the second time he rev'ed it.  Pressure may have not built up fully in the lifters the first time ... but OK by the second time he rev'ed it.   Other then that ,  to me it actually started up and ran pretty well.  And over all sounded normal .   IF ... a lifter was collapsing at higher rev's , that would shorten the duration on his cams.  On the Intake side he may still have good bottom end , but no top end.   And if it was the exhaust side ... a shorter duration might restrict.  BUT... I would think he would hear a gawd awful racket  if his lifters were collapsing at higher RPM's.     If his lifters or a lifter pumped at higher Rpm's ... from loosing control of the valve train due to a weak valve spring or a auto-decomp hanging  up,  than l sudden loss of compression could do it to.

   If his cam timing was off ?     If the Intake were advanced a tooth....  he would have much better power down low and good mid range , and give up a little in the top end.    More then one tooth on the intake , would likely have the  valve tapping the the piston around TDC.    If his intake were retarded one tooth he would have better mid range and top end.    Two teeth back , and he'd have good mid range any everything else would be not so great... it would be harder to start the bike that way with less compression.    If his exhaust  opening late and closing late... that may kill his top end as well on a stock cam..


Hi Rattlebattle
I ran it in meticulously. Didn't even try to go above 80 for the 1st 10,000kms.
Then it started running like a dream. Great response and power. Just, no decent higher speed performance.
This may be interesting - There's actually a discernable a difference when I fill up with Shell's V-Power petrol.
Could that be due to the cleaning agents in the fuel, I wonder. Hmm. I'm really thinking blockage now..

I love the idea of an Italian Thrashing!
I'm only familiar with the Torquay Thrashing..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv0onXhyLlE

   Certainly do the compression test first.... It can tell a world about the condition of the engine.  Rings , valves , cam timing and etc.  And maybe set you in the right direction..  IF... there is a internal problem with the motor.   

 To check your fuel pump and fuel delivery , really the  only was to know for sure is to cut in a tee fitting between the fuel pump and the injector  and check the pressure with a fuel pressure gauge.   It should be 42-43 psi.  And it should maintain that as you rev the motor . And stay there when you shut the motor off.    Also the pressure should also not be too high... that might indicate a problem  with the regulator in the fuel pump.     If the pressure is  too high  or spiking high, you maybe running too rich and bogging out ... your head pipe shows very little bluing around that first bend in the pipe .   So I don't think you are running lean BTW.     Another problem that I have found with fuel delivery , is the insulator between the intake manifold and the cylinder head.   There is a clearance notch in it for the tip of the injector ...  I have seen those put in the wrong way around , so the spray of the injector is obstructed.  And  I have also seen them blasted apart by the injector , with a piece of the insulator blocking the injector. 

   The higher octane fuel 93 fuel , should really only help if your motor is pinging.    As if your compression was TOO high due to your combustion chamber being REALLY carboned up ... and it would take a LOT  of Carbon build up to raise your compression ratio above say .. 10:1  or so.  I doubt it.  If the detergents in the good fuel are cleaning things up ... then when you ran the regular fuel ... it should behave about the same, because you cleaned things out with the good stuff.


 Another possible exhaust restriction could be the inner pipe inside the head pipe .  I have seen them break inside at the 02 sensor opening.   It is week there , where they drill the whole between the outer pipe and the inner pipe , and it breaks off at that spot.  The inner pipe will shift a little inside and possibly obstruct the exhaust flow.    Take a screw driver and tap  the handle of the screw driver along the head pipe and listen for any rattles..   

 
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 02:29:12 am by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


Roy L.

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Reply #33 on: October 25, 2019, 08:31:25 pm
Another top-class reply GHG, thanks.
There are no unpleasant sounds from the bike at all - anymore. When it was new it sounded like a rattling box full of nuts and bolts. Oh my, those first oil changes.. But after 2 careful years it started running great. It doesn't like cold mornings however and can be a little stuttery for the first mile or so at low revs.
I just don't have a bad feeling about the engine, to be honest. It runs absolutely great. After all the advice given above, I'm really thinking FLOW of some kind. Fuel, air, exhaust.
One of our board members has offered to sell me his PC-V very reasonably and I'm going to do it. I also like the idea of a whole new free-flow exhaust, silencer and air-filter.
GHG, right back at the beginning of this epic thread you mentioned fitting a "5 " UNI pod filter stuck right onto the Throttle body." Having seen my bike, are you sure there's enough room to get one of those fitted in that way? Do you have any photos of that? Can you point me to an exact model, please? What do you think about the K+N?

BR as always


Arizoni

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Reply #34 on: October 26, 2019, 12:23:14 am
I had poor luck with my "made specifically for the Royal Enfield Bullet" K&N filter when I used it in my 2011 G5 Deluxe.

The air box on the G5 is slightly different from the B5 and C5 so maybe that was the reason but in any case, the K&N air filter restricted the airflow and reduced both the top speed and the fuel economy.
I went back to the OEM paper filter and set the K&N on a shelf in my workshop, where it will stay.
Jim
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gashousegorilla

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Reply #35 on: October 26, 2019, 01:39:21 am
Another top-class reply GHG, thanks.
There are no unpleasant sounds from the bike at all - anymore. When it was new it sounded like a rattling box full of nuts and bolts. Oh my, those first oil changes.. But after 2 careful years it started running great. It doesn't like cold mornings however and can be a little stuttery for the first mile or so at low revs.
I just don't have a bad feeling about the engine, to be honest. It runs absolutely great. After all the advice given above, I'm really thinking FLOW of some kind. Fuel, air, exhaust.
One of our board members has offered to sell me his PC-V very reasonably and I'm going to do it. I also like the idea of a whole new free-flow exhaust, silencer and air-filter.
GHG, right back at the beginning of this epic thread you mentioned fitting a "5 " UNI pod filter stuck right onto the Throttle body." Having seen my bike, are you sure there's enough room to get one of those fitted in that way? Do you have any photos of that? Can you point me to an exact model, please? What do you think about the K+N?

BR as always

   Well ... I'm thinking if your in Finland , that it is likely cold there a lot of the times ?...  Especially in the mornings ?   Even in the summer maybe  ?    ;D   I could be wrong though , because I have no Idea and have never been there.  " Finland" to ME  now , just sounds cold .  ;D   So If I am somewhat right about that ?  I think you could use a thinner oil ... like a 10w-40  or a 10w-50 if you have it over there.   That should help you with those cold start ups , and  get oil into your lifter's and top end quicker  on those cold mornings.   These bikes take a LONG time to worn up !  They have excellent oiling and cooling features , and they do not run hot generally.

  I think a lot of this .." It takes 1500 or 2000 miles for the motor to free up and run smooth stuff".... has to do a lot with the Cam gear lash set at the factory on these bikes.   I think they set the gears too tight.   It takes forever for them to wear in .. They are HARD steel gear teeth.  A lot of power is also lost when they are set too tight.... turn you motor over by hand when they are adjusted a little loose versus too tight, you'll see what I mean .  And I think ... I KNOW !... that they make a racket when they are set too tight.

   The Uni filter that I and other have had good luck with is a UP-5182 part number .  Yes it will fit , because you will remove the stock air box that would be in the way.  Your crankcase vent, you can just route back along the frame over the area of the chain and loop it down pointing at the chain, or out and back off the rear fender.  No worries I think,  about anything getting sucked back into the crank  case vent.  Pull the crankcase vent  hose off of the side cover while that bike is running , and tell me if you think anything is going to to get sucked INTO  that motor ?  It's a steady blast of air coming out of there.   You can also tee in a sediment trap along that length of vent hose ... a six inch section off of the main vent line with a cap on the end ,  to trap , collect  and then  drain that watery mayonnaise like oil  instead of it getting getting on your chain if you want.    Up to you .  BUT... you do not want to restrict that vent line with ANYTHING in my opinion , because pressure could build up at higher  RPM's  and you start leaking out out of your gaskets and seals.   I have had NO luck with any kind of  PC-V valve on these bikes.   And when you are done with all that ... just put the stock right side cover back on and it will all look the same from the outside .  ;D    BTW... That Uni filter will lay right on  that flat section , behind the oval tool box on the right side of the bike  on a C-5.... almost like it was meant for it.   On either bike a six inch rubber tube added between the throttle body and that  Uni filter  will be better in the mid  range.    Tough to fit in on a C-5 because of space... but perfect on a G-5/ Electra  with that stock air box gone.


  Good deal on the PC-V ...  I personally think it is the best and most versatile tuner out there for these bikes.   But remember... because people wont always tell you  or they are vague about it...  you must have that bike tuned or you tune it for the changes.   And no two bikes are the same , even when they have the same modifications.   So you should tune or have tuned, your bike , with your modifications and where you are located.   Little  things like  the type of fuel you use locally, your altitude , the TPS reading on your bike vs others and etc.   The condition of YOUR motor vs others and etc.

  I think K&N filters are good filters ... but pricey.   I think the biggest benefit from them is that they are reusable .   Inside the stock air box ?   I don't see them doing much of anything at all in this case with the Enfield.   As you can see By Arizoni comments above ... I have not heard good things about them .  That could be because they are more restrictive .. with all that oil on them ... then stock ?     OR... it could be because they are less restrictive then stock , and the air fuel ratio is getting leaned out a bit and you actually loose power ?   I'm not sure myself  as I never had a need for that type of " in the box filter. "   It would be easy to tell on the dyno what's going on , or with a wide band sensor in the head pipe.   But I think a Similar sized K&N to the Uni might be OK.  I like the Uni's because they  DO flow a good amount of air and filter well , and a I believe the foam smooths out the air flow past the MAP sensor.   I like them...   
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 01:53:32 am by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


Roy L.

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Reply #36 on: October 26, 2019, 10:42:41 am
Thanks for the comment Arizoni. Interesting. I think I'll go with GSG's recommendation for a Uni filter, then.

Hey GSG. Thanks again for all of that!
Quote
... tell me if you think anything is going to to get sucked INTO  that motor
I sure will, buddy. In April! That's the soonest I'll be seeing her again.
All your help here has pretty much persuaded me to give the bike one more season at least and get those flow mods on it.
The Uni filter sounds good, so I'll get one of those on order.
FYI: Finland and weather, think Minnesota. Long cold winter, 6-month riding window - 4 of those usually absolutely beautiful weather. Welcome anytime GSG (and bring your overalls ;-)

Has anyone any experience of AEW exhaust systems from India? I like the look of this one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293041762118?ul_noapp=true#shpCntId
Supplier just replied to me that it's an original AEW. They seem to get positive reviews on YouTube.
Cost approx. 130GBP / 150EUR / 165USD incl shipping


Enfield Pro

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Reply #37 on: October 26, 2019, 12:04:51 pm
Has anyone any experience of AEW exhaust systems from India? I like the look of this one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293041762118?ul_noapp=true#shpCntId
Supplier just replied to me that it's an original AEW. They seem to get positive reviews on YouTube.
Cost approx. 130GBP / 150EUR / 165USD incl shipping

I don't have specific experience with this silencer, but here are my complaints about Indian market silencers in general.

Some styles are super heavy.

The finish is below standard compared to chrome you would find in the U.S. or U.K.

Fitment is never "bolt on" out of the box. You will probably need a universal bracket in addition to whatever hardware they supply.

I'm not saying don't buy it, just manage your expectations.

The listing does not specify if this silencer fits 350 or 500cc I would clarify that for sure.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 12:10:19 pm by Enfield Pro »
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gashousegorilla

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Reply #38 on: October 26, 2019, 11:18:37 pm
Thanks for the comment Arizoni. Interesting. I think I'll go with GSG's recommendation for a Uni filter, then.

Hey GSG. Thanks again for all of that!I sure will, buddy. In April! That's the soonest I'll be seeing her again.
All your help here has pretty much persuaded me to give the bike one more season at least and get those flow mods on it.
The Uni filter sounds good, so I'll get one of those on order.
FYI: Finland and weather, think Minnesota. Long cold winter, 6-month riding window - 4 of those usually absolutely beautiful weather. Welcome anytime GSG (and bring your overalls ;-)

Has anyone any experience of AEW exhaust systems from India? I like the look of this one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293041762118?ul_noapp=true#shpCntId
Supplier just replied to me that it's an original AEW. They seem to get positive reviews on YouTube.
Cost approx. 130GBP / 150EUR / 165USD incl shipping


  Ahhhh.....  Like Minnesota .   So your basically snowed in about now, right ?   :o ;D ;)    And no ... I was just being a bit sarcastic with the with the crank vent.    You should feel a steady and  strong flow of air blowing out of that thing when it is running.     If that vent is blocked , you would know it .    Oil would be blowing out of all your seals and gaskets ! ;)


  As for as a muffler for good top end ?   I would say a tapered, wide open megaphone about 12-18 inches long ... if you  and your neighbors can tolerate the sound  ?...   Hahaha !    ;)    Or to tone it down a bit ,  a tapered muffler like a reverse cone , a Dunstall , or a Goldstar type.   Kinda like the one you posted there , without that eagle beak on the end .  The less packing or baffling you can tolerate the better.   The tapered shape will allow  the hot exhaust pulse to expand inside that muffler , and help scavenge the pipe at higher RPM's.     Things CAN get loud when you crack that throttle open at higher RPM's , but it's effective.    Emgo makes a bunch of reasonably priced universal mufflers that should fit the bill.     

The head pipe should be at least a 1 5/8 " pipe for good top end ... actually port matched to the exhaust port and then move up to that 1 5/8"   .   Bigger is even better... but I would say between a 1 5/8 - 1 7/8 head pipe .   Keep it smaller if your not getting Cams.   My daily beater bike has a custom made stepped 1 5/8 " pipe ... it's actually a stock head pipe , that has been cut open and that puny ,crazy straw sized inner pipe removed and I welded back together.  My hot rod bike has  a stepped  1 7/8 pipe .   But you should be able to find something out there .  If not ?    Take you shock pipe to a muffler shop and say ... " here , make this, in this size."    If you are going to tune the bike yourself ... with something like that auto tuner add on to the PC-V ?     Then you will need an 18 mm threaded bung welded onto that head pipe , for the wide band sensor... in place of the stock 12 mm narrow band sensor.   But if you are taking it to a Dyno instead ? ... then you don't need to do it.

 Once you get the head pipe on ... don't put the muffler on just yet.   Take a grease pencil , and mark the head pipe with lines , spaced about one inch apart  for about 8-12 inches on either side  of the foot peg.  Then take the bike out for a short blast and bring it up to around 4500-5000 rpms... being careful to not get the pipe too hot and melt  ALL your marks.   At the spot where you find one mark melted and the one next to it not melted ... cut your head pipe off right there, and stick your muffler on at that point. You'll get even better top end that way..  ;)

 

 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 11:43:23 pm by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


Roy L.

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Reply #39 on: October 27, 2019, 09:26:52 am
Quote
manage your expectations
Hi EP! Indeed. Thanks for all of that sound advice - it's duly noted.
AEW pipes seem to have a decent reputation in India. This guy in Tasmania seems to be enjoying his:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rlgEErk--E

Hey GHG. Once again, all top stuff. I'm really up for this now.
Loved that last paragraph. Never heard that before. Certainly going to do it just to be able to nonchalantly drop it into a conversation.  ;D
Oh, you can take the internal pipe out of the existing header? Nice. My farmer-buddy is a welder, so he can do that. I hate just throwing stuff away.
Btw, Minus degrees and Fargo-esque up in Lapland already. Down here in Helsinki it's an overcast +3c this morning. Hope to get some snow starting December to brighten the place up!


heloego

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Reply #40 on: October 27, 2019, 01:36:48 pm
"Loved that last paragraph. Never heard that before. Certainly going to do it just to be able to nonchalantly drop it into a conversation."

As did/had I!  :) Well worth knowing, and when we reach that point on my current project this will be a definite step!
Thanks GHG!  ;D
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tooseevee

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Reply #41 on: October 27, 2019, 03:27:08 pm

Oh, you can take the internal pipe out of the existing header? Nice. My farmer-buddy is a welder, so he can do that. I hate just throwing stuff away.


           You can cut that hot tube loose very easily with a cutting wheel on a Dremel tool if you don't want to cut the header pipe shorter. You just have to cut the tack welds loose.

            Did that on my AVL long time ago; took about 10 minutoes  :)




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gashousegorilla

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Reply #42 on: October 27, 2019, 04:47:26 pm
Hi EP! Indeed. Thanks for all of that sound advice - it's duly noted.
AEW pipes seem to have a decent reputation in India. This guy in Tasmania seems to be enjoying his:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rlgEErk--E

Hey GHG. Once again, all top stuff. I'm really up for this now.
Loved that last paragraph. Never heard that before. Certainly going to do it just to be able to nonchalantly drop it into a conversation.  ;D
Oh, you can take the internal pipe out of the existing header? Nice. My farmer-buddy is a welder, so he can do that. I hate just throwing stuff away.
Btw, Minus degrees and Fargo-esque up in Lapland already. Down here in Helsinki it's an overcast +3c this morning. Hope to get some snow starting December to brighten the place up!

"Loved that last paragraph. Never heard that before. Certainly going to do it just to be able to nonchalantly drop it into a conversation."

As did/had I!  :) Well worth knowing, and when we reach that point on my current project this will be a definite step!
Thanks GHG!  ;D


    Hillbilly Exhaust tunin' .... taught to me by the master  ;)   Simple and quite effective.   One should not have to spend a mint to go fast,  particularly on an Enfield !    Simple trick's and the accumulation of all the little horses here and there add up.  ;)

  There is another FUN way of doing it in your garage..... Muhahaha !    Take a larger diameter  "slipper pipe" , that you can slide back and forth over the outlet end of the head pipe .    Rev the motor up.... UP !!!.... as you slide that slipper pipe back and forth until you find the  "SPOT" .   You will know when you are there , because your ears will be ringing, you will be seeing star's , your teeth will be rattling in your head, parts will be falling off the shelf,  and your wife will come running into the garage screaming at you !   Hahaha !     But who cares ? 
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


gizzo

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Reply #43 on: October 27, 2019, 07:53:33 pm

   There is another FUN way of doing it in your garage..... Muhahaha !    Take a larger diameter  "slipper pipe" , that you can slide back and forth over the outlet end of the head pipe .    Rev the motor up.... UP !!!.... as you slide that slipper pipe back and forth until you find the  "SPOT" .   You will know when you are there , because your ears will be ringing, you will be seeing star's , your teeth will be rattling in your head, parts will be falling off the shelf,  and your wife will come running into the garage screaming at you !   Hahaha !     But who cares ?

That sounds a lot like the time I started a Bailey pulse jet on the back porch. Especially the wife part.
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wildbill

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Reply #44 on: October 27, 2019, 11:26:43 pm
my thoughts would be this-if you replace the plug with a ngkbpr6es and then put on a free flow exhaust as per the video link below - these are the only two mods I usually do to most of the 15 uce bikes ive owned over the past 7 years and at the moment that's down to ZERO...LOL  but saying that its enough to get them well over 100 kph cruise.
if those two mods don't make a difference then i'd say you have a problem some-there as just that change in plug helps and that change of exhaust from stock to sports helps hugely and picks up a fair bit of get up and go. check out the clip
https://youtu.be/G56P5AA0jEY