Author Topic: ABS or Not?  (Read 2596 times)

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Dr Mayhem

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Reply #15 on: October 12, 2019, 05:07:10 pm
I don't know anything specifically about the Himalayan anti-lock brakes, but with the 650 twins on dirt you can see in the dirt how the brakes are being momentarily applied, 6-7 times per tires revolution and you do come to a full stop while staying hard on the brakes
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 05:09:29 pm by Dr Mayhem »
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gashousegorilla

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Reply #16 on: October 13, 2019, 12:43:52 am
   Good stuff boys.     So my take is ...

   If you are hard core off roader and or racer and you hate the government telling you that you have to have it .... ABS sucks !  Hahaha !  ;)

  For most everyone else ... in particular with these bikes , which are not really dirt bikes and will spend most time of the time on hard pavement.... it's a good thing.


An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


ody04

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Reply #17 on: October 14, 2019, 04:18:28 pm
I feel ABS is must if you are planning to drive on tarmac, yesterday I went for a ride in norcal mountains with lot of twists and turns. In one of the corners which is almost like a u turn suddenly a car crossed the line and came straight in to as I was leaning already at about 40miles speed with out ABS I would have certainly crashed. Bike performed beautifully in mountain roads handling is a breeze. Gravel roads I am yet to try. Will update once I have done that.


Dr Mayhem

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Reply #18 on: October 15, 2019, 07:10:15 pm
I feel ABS is must if you are planning to drive on tarmac, yesterday I went for a ride in norcal mountains with lot of twists and turns. In one of the corners which is almost like a u turn suddenly a car crossed the line and came straight in to as I was leaning already at about 40miles speed with out ABS I would have certainly crashed. Bike performed beautifully in mountain roads handling is a breeze. Gravel roads I am yet to try. Will update once I have done that.

So you applied too much brake and momentarily lost traction, is this correct? Which tire was it? Do you remember exactly what you felt the bike/tire do at that instant?
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bigm

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Reply #19 on: October 17, 2019, 10:12:19 am
I would strongly recommend you to get a bike with ABS. All these reviewers who say that himalayan the rear will not lock and you will not get the feel of an dirt bike. Who said himalayan is a dirt bike. It was meant for all terrains not for dirt bike stunting.
Please buy a bike with ABS because anyhow you will not feel like making it jump and roll because its heavy but purposeful.

Please check mileage of himalayan in this video. Please appreciate if you like my video.

http://soulfulbiker.com/royal-enfield-himalayan-mileage-test/


mattsz

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Reply #20 on: October 17, 2019, 12:33:06 pm
ABS doesn't work well in the dirt, or any loose surface, because when you go to stop, technology takes over (like a Boeing 737-8 Max) and when the ABS feels the tires start to rotate at different speeds it cuts the braking until the wheel speeds match.  Which they usually won't - leaving you without brakes and heading for the nearest tree, ditch, or cliff, without any brakes at all.

I guess this is the kind of thing I've heard about - no experience myself, either with ABS or with proper dirt riding.

Richard, has the effect you described happened to you?


Richard230

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Reply #21 on: October 17, 2019, 02:21:41 pm
I guess this is the kind of thing I've heard about - no experience myself, either with ABS or with proper dirt riding.

Richard, has the effect you described happened to you?

No. I don't ride in the dirt, but I have talked with people who do and read lots of magazine articles written by people who do a lot of off-road riding. To a man, they all say that ABS can cause the bike not to stop on loose surfaces, especially when riding down a hill. The ABS system feels the wheels rotating at different speeds and "thinks" they are slipping so it cuts braking until the wheels start turning at the same rate, which might not happen when one wheel hooks up and the other wheel doesn't on a loose surface with varying traction. 

That is why many ADV models now coming on the market have a switch that allows the rider to turn the system off.  Others have a setting for off-road riding that turns off the system for the rear wheel, but keeps it working on the front wheel. You will see these features showing up on most current European ADV models such as BMW, KTM, Ducati and Triumph brands. They wouldn't be offering switchable ABS systems unless they felt their customers needed or demanded them.

In my case, I have owned BMW motorcycles that have had ABS for the past 12 years and not once has the system activated and done anything other than increase the complexity and expense of my braking system, along with resulting in fluid replacement costs that had to be performed by a BMW dealer at a 2-hour labor charge. So for me, ABS seems to be a waste of money. Having been riding for 57 years without it and I have only experienced a rear wheel skid once, so it just isn't something that makes sense to me.   ???
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ody04

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Reply #22 on: October 20, 2019, 08:44:28 pm
So you applied too much brake and momentarily lost traction, is this correct? Which tire was it? Do you remember exactly what you felt the bike/tire do at that instant?

The front brake with out ABS it would have locked up and crashed, at the same time I applied back brake which is not advisable in the corners as there will not have much traction. Its the rear tire that skid little bit and dragged sideways as I was leaning. The bike did not lose control because the front tire was not locked up. Its a left hand turn just an FYI



mike_bike_kite

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Reply #23 on: October 23, 2019, 09:08:29 am
Since you've never "been there", when the front wheel locks up, even for just an instant, the front tire will skid to the side and the whole front end of the motorcycle suddenly falls rapidly to the opposite side and the rider is thrown off.  This is commonly called a "high side" and the landing is not pleasant.

When a motorcycle "low sides" with the rear wheel slipping out to the side, you can usually feel it coming and kick off of the pegs and let the motorcycle slip out from under you without much damage to you.
With a "high side" everything is going good and then suddenly, usually under brakeing, the front wheel slips and, POW.  There you are, landing on your head or shoulder. :(
That's not a highside I'm afraid. A highside is when a bike has a sudden and violent rotation around its long axis. The rider is usually thrown over the top of the bike. It's usually caused by over accelerating in corners and then loosing traction on the rear wheel then, when the rider lets off the throttle, the rear wheel suddenly bites and everything suddenly goes south. Here's a quick video of a highside in action, it happens in the first 20 seconds. Personally I wouldn't ride a bike without ABS these days.


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Arizoni

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Reply #24 on: October 23, 2019, 10:55:10 pm
While I totally agree that the cause of a high side can be caused by the rear wheel skidding to the side and then suddenly re-gaining traction, I'll stand by my comment that the front tire suddenly skidding to the side can cause a "high side" crash.

When the front wheel locks up and it suddenly skids to the side, it will instantly cause "a sudden and violent rotation around its (the motorcycles) long axis" (to quote your definition).
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olhogrider

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Reply #25 on: November 19, 2019, 11:50:11 pm
While I totally agree that the cause of a high side can be caused by the rear wheel skidding to the side and then suddenly re-gaining traction, I'll stand by my comment that the front tire suddenly skidding to the side can cause a "high side" crash.

When the front wheel locks up and it suddenly skids to the side, it will instantly cause "a sudden and violent rotation around its (the motorcycles) long axis" (to quote your definition).

Stand by all you like but it's the same as calling a bagel a donut just because it has a hole in it. A high side is when the rear slides out, then suddenly catches and catapults the rider over the high side! If the front or rear slides out and the bike drops to the pavement, that's a low side.

What I found out riding the INT in dirt is that the smooth, road going tire will slide as soon as you apply the brakes. The ABS kicks in and no matter what you do, you have no brakes! Once I put an off road tire on, it would grab the dirt and slow down. The ABS only came into play on pavement since the knobby wouldn't grab asphalt.

I have had two broken bones in my 50+ years of riding. Both were caused by a locked front brake. ABS would have saved my bike and my bones both times. The real world can be a dangerous place. ABS can lessen the danger and there's almost no downside (or low side ;) )


olhogrider

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Reply #26 on: November 20, 2019, 12:11:32 am


Arizoni

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Reply #27 on: November 21, 2019, 01:02:08 am
Whatever it is called, you end up being thrown forcibly off motorcycle and land on your shoulder or head.

Not a good thing, in my opinion.
Jim
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mattsz

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Reply #28 on: November 21, 2019, 11:53:47 am
Whatever it is called, you end up being thrown forcibly off motorcycle and land on your shoulder or head.

Not a good thing, in my opinion.

Something we can all  agree on!