Author Topic: Oil level  (Read 798 times)

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gashousegorilla

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Reply #30 on: October 11, 2019, 11:33:23 PM
   This is what I do , and it's been working for ten years now.   Your results may vary ??   Also trying to put it in a way as to NOT over think it .... Because it's really not hard  and complex a thing to check.

     After an oil change.....

  When I refill the crankcase with oil ... the bike is sitting level and on the center stand.   I refill until the gauge glass shows and settles to about 2/3's -3/4's of the way full to the top of the glass.    As you refill... and you watch that gauge glass, you will notice how the level in the gauge glass rises as you get close to being full and then it setting back down.   When you see it rise like this in the gauge glass ... STOP pouring in oil ! and let it settle !  Pour it in very slowly  at that point.  ... or just splash a little at a time down the funnel as you watch it settle.

  THEN ... run the bike for a few minutes, and after you check around for any leaks .  Shut the bike off and take a look see  where the oil has leveled off in the gauge glass.   It WILL BE a little lower NOW, after you ran the motor.... it may even be below the bottom of the gauge glass.  But most times you can see it down near the bottom.   Now stick your funnel back in there, and as you watch that gauge glass... splash in that last couple/ few ounces  to get it to the middle of the gauge glass.    And CALL IT GOOD !   ;D      If you go much beyond half way up the gauge glass, under longer sustained higher rpm rides... like on the highway.... you may start blowing oil out of the crank case vent and into the air box.     Half way up that glass is more then plenty ..

 
 In between oil changes.....

  If you bike is sitting on the side stand ... say in your garage before you go out for a ride.   Simply pull the the bike level on the left side handle bar .... hold it there for a few seconds and watch that gauge glass.    In a few seconds.... that level will be right where you left it when you checked the level after the oil change.    You know .... obviously  maybe lower if it was  a LOT of miles since you changed that oil and you used some oil.    You can also do the whole throwing it back up on the center stand/ level ground routine  and running the motor and shutting it off again thing ?  Go ahead  ? ...  but when you do that , you are sloshing the oil all over the joint inside that engine case , and THAT is why you have to run the motor, to recirculate it and get it back to the level that you would have seen ..... if you had just grabbed that handle bar and pulled the bike level .  ;D

   If you park the bike up on the center stand , your oil level is now off the mark because of the action of doing that.    BUT let it sit like that.  And over time .... say you walk back into the garage after a few hours or even the next day  ..... take a look at that gauge glass again.     I bet ya that oil level is right on the mark from where you left it the last time.  Or it should be .   Over time , even after throwing it up the center stand ... that oil will make it's way back to that level.   


  If you find that the oil level shows too high in the gauge glass , or too low in the gauge glass when you pull the bike to center , or check it by putting it up on the center stand and running it  and shutting it off  doing it that way ... or after the bike has sat for a period of time up on the center stand ?   The oil level was not set correctly initially when the oil change was done.   It was over filled or under filled.  Or if it's low and you know how to check the level ,  you used some oil obviously.... 

   

 

 
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 01:03:48 AM by gashousegorilla »
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Arizoni

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Reply #31 on: October 12, 2019, 02:54:12 AM
I'm still puzzled. My oil level (2019 model 500) is above the max, unless I've put it on the sidestand first. My dealer's mechanic said that's right, run it for a short while  put it on the sidestand, so the oil collects and then onto the centre stand to read the level through the glass. Everything else I've read has said, as soon as you put it on the sidestand, you won't  get a true reading! Although apparently over-filled on the no sidestand reading, there's no blow into the air filter chamber that I can see. Only 400 miles so maybe too early to tell?

Confused.
Your mechanic is full of shit.
Putting the motorcycle onto the side stand pours a lot of the oil in the oil tank (located below the engine) into the left side cover.  The drainage holes in the sidecover are high enough to prevent some of the oil to return to the main oil tank and the drain holes in the right hand cover are high enough that they don't allow the oil to drain into that right hand cover.  Net result?  The sight glass on the right hand cover shows a low oil level.

If there is enough oil in the main oil tank to refill it, I say the engine has too much oil in it.

The instructions to check the oil level in the Owners Manual are quite specific.  They say, put the motorcycle on the center stand.  Start the engine.  Let it run for a while.  Shut if off.  Wait for a few minutes. Then, check the oil level.

I guess the only good thing about having more oil in the oil tank than you need is, it is a separate tank and there's little likelihood of it flooding the crankcase or causing problems with the oil pump.
It could get up into the transmission gears though.  That would whip the oil up and possibly cause foaming and a lot of excess heat in the oil.
Foaming can be bad because the oil pump doesn't like pumping air.  A little excess heat usually won't cause a problem.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 02:59:11 AM by Arizoni »
Jim
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Ove

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Reply #32 on: October 12, 2019, 09:06:09 AM
Thank you, I will reduce my oil level a touch. I guess the front drain plug? Expect no blow into the air box because I'm still riding below 60mph, running in.The mechanic also told me they never touch the oil strainer behind the cap under the engine. Losing confidence in the dealership.


mattsz

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Reply #33 on: October 12, 2019, 11:18:23 AM
GHG and Arizoni are correct.  And they've been at it with these RE models probably quite a bit longer than your dealership!

Thank you, I will reduce my oil level a touch. I guess the front drain plug?

That's a convenient spot to drain off some oil, and because that orifice drains just the chamber where the crank is spinning, if something goes amiss (like if you accidentally drop the plug and it ends up rolling under the bench) you won't end up dumping all your oil.  But don't forget that if you do drain it from there, don't expect to observe a real-time change (lowering) of your sight-glass level - that won't change until you run the engine again and that crank chamber gets refilled.  Earlier, GHG said, "There are are oil passages throughout the inside of that crank case lead to each other," which is correct, but I don't believe that the crank chamber will actually drain on its own, which is why RE added that third plug.

Occasionally I've seen where members have suggested various suction methods for removing a bit of oil from the oil fill opening, but if I recall correctly I was never able to get anything down past the mechanicals inside the engine to actually reach the oil.

As GHG said, when you're doing the final "top-up," you want to add just a little bit at a time, and of course when you do you need to be patient and give it a chance to dribble down into the sump and actually raise the level.  I actually keep an old plastic squeeze bottle filled with fresh oil so when I'm topping up, I can just squirt a little bit in at a time, and forego the funnel altogether.  Get yourself one like this and adding oil will become the highlight of your day:



Quote
The mechanic also told me they never touch the oil strainer behind the cap under the engine. Losing confidence in the dealership.

Codswallop!  When your engine is running, oil is sucked from the sump, through that screen, and directly into the oil pump.  That strainer is your first line of defense against all the production-line crap that ends up in your oil during the break-in - machining swarf, bits of gasket-in-a-tube squeeze-out, fibers and even chunks of cloth from gloves or rags or who-knows-what... a search through the archives reveals some photos of those screens, taken during first oil changes, which show an impressive quantity of junk clogging up the works:






Admittedly, these photos are of some of the earliest UCE bikes; supposedly things have changed a lot at the factory since 2009, when these pics were posted.

Anyway, that screen should be removed and cleaned every time you change your oil.  After a few oil changes, things will improve as that junk gets flushed from the system, and all you'll end up with is some metal "dust" on the sump drain magnets.  But keep checking that screen at every change - it's an easy way to keep an eye on how things are behaving inside your engine...

If you'd like to know more about your engine's oiling system, here's a link to an old thread where I pondered the question about how to drain as much oil as possible.  You'll find photos of the crankcase interior which may shed some light on the subject...

https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=21436.0

My ol' pal Gremlin posted a link to a "slide-show" graphic which describes the oiling of these engines; it's so simple and informative that I'm including the link here:

https://www.slideshare.net/classicmw/royal-enfield-uce-lubrication


Ove

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Reply #34 on: October 12, 2019, 05:14:32 PM
Thanks very much. Advice appreciated. Links really interesting. Do you think I should check the sump screen straight away, or wait. I'm planning a further oil and filter change before 1,000miles. Filter ready and waiting!

Sorry to highjack the thread. Help appreciated.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 06:15:37 PM by Ove »


gashousegorilla

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Reply #35 on: October 13, 2019, 12:29:26 AM
   Excellent post Matt..     Especially the Honey bear !  Hahaha !  That's a good idea.     And yeah ... as you can clearly see in your previous posts , and from what I have seen inside these engine Cases.    There is no oil left in the LEFT side cover , when the engine is brought back to a level position.   It WILL flow to the left side cover when on the side stand , but as you pull the bike level ... it goes right back down into that sump  (tank?) and back out through the passage at the right side giving you your oil level at the gauge glass.    Give it a few seconds to get there ...

  And yes,  a small amount of oil does stay there laying under the  flywheel's or webs of the crank shaft .   A very small amount , enough just to touch the bottom of the webs.   So draining from that front drain plug will NOT immediately show a lower oil level in the site glass, like the rear drain plug or the sump screen plate would.    If one wants to lower their oil level.. YES ... do it at the rear plug or at the sump screen an watch the gauge glass.

  My gawd ...  Never clean the sump screen they say !?    :o    OoOofff !!     How do they think the motor will get  lubricated as that screen gets blocked up over time ?!
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Ove

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Reply #36 on: October 13, 2019, 06:51:19 PM
Removed over 1/2 litre of oil to get to top line in sight glass.