Author Topic: Time for Another Project  (Read 7462 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
on: April 16, 2019, 09:58:55 pm
OK, so my Not A Fury big head special is done and has turned out fine, so now what?

Back to the madness, I fear, let's start with an Electra-X 500 AVL barrel:



No, not that one, it's too nice. Fortunately I have a reasonable used one off my old Electra, which might clean up with a good hone (I have a + 0.020" piston for it if not).

Pass me the angle grinder!  :o





Yes that will do, but why on earth chop a still half-decent barrel about?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
If you guessed another hybrid engine, well done, but as some of you will know I've already got one, with its barrel fins intact, what gives?
.
.
.
.



Yep, this one is getting a Lucas SR1 magneto, just like the '56 - '59 Redditch Bullets, and it bolts right onto a set of iron barrel Indian Bullet cases. For the crank I'm using a Hitchcocks' Electra-X item which should not do what my Electra's OEM crank did at under 18,000 miles. The cases will need minor modification for the AVL timing cover, and of course, just like the Redditch Bullets, this one will need a fairly thick spacer for the carb to clear the magneto.



For this, a 20mm thick chunk of Tufnol suitably drilled and shaped will do. Otherwise I end up with a slight air leak between the carb and the head.



To be continued.

A.

Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Superchuck

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 0
Reply #1 on: April 17, 2019, 01:19:25 pm
Very cool, keep us posted!


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,297
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #2 on: April 17, 2019, 01:22:28 pm
Looks cool, Adrian!
 :)
Home of the Fireball 535 !


heloego

  • A 2x4. My kingdom for a 2x4!
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,485
  • Karma: 0
  • USA '12 C5, '06 ElectraX
Reply #3 on: April 19, 2019, 01:41:29 am
Hmmm. Looks very cool! Keep the popcorn coming!
'18 Bonneville T-100, Blue/White
'12 C5 Classic
'06 Electra X AVL w/32mm Mikuni and Gold Star system.


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #4 on: August 02, 2019, 09:29:56 pm
It's been a while, there turns out to have been a major problem with the timing side of those crankcases.

See the problem?



Yep those had to go back to Mr Hitchcock for a refund, while I managed to bag a better set off John Hutchings of Tollgate Classics. These were even modified for the wider NU2205 bearing, so better mainshaft support too.

I tried to post a long update with pictures earlier but ran foul of the dreaded database error message. Excuse me while I go through the Libre Office draft and eliminate any of the characters that our still unfixed forum can't handle, more soon - I hope.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #5 on: August 02, 2019, 10:11:40 pm
No, still won't accept it. Is this issue ever going to be fixed?  :(

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #6 on: December 16, 2019, 08:58:58 pm
OK, thanks to our new hosts the picture posting function seems to working with my current choice of photo hosting web site, so I can finally post the summer's update, FOUR MONTHS late!

Now where was I?

Oh yes, timing side crankcase broken, replacement found.

Well, if you DO extend the bore for the main bearing housing to fit the NU2205 it means that the extra width of the new bearing will foul an oil way.



Never mind, a little removal of alloy in the area will let the oil flow round the outer bearing race to reach the rollers.



After my experience with an Electra-X big end failure, there is no way this thing takes to the road without a magnetic sump plug. This one gives you an idea, though I’ve just ordered a snazzier version which can be lock-wired into place.



Only trouble is there’s no hole for one, though there is a nice reinforced section of the timing side crankcase close to the feed from the sump to the scavenge plug. Time for my 0.5 inch drill and the 14x1.25mm taps (spark plug thread!).



NEXT job. How to make these classic Bullet cases work with the AVL/Electra-X timing cover? The AVL re-design moved the oilway that feeds the rocker pipe for some reason. Fortunately, this being a recent enough set of cases the blob of alloy is already there for it, the factory wisely arranged for the crankcase castings to be adaptable for classic OR lean-burn Bullet production.

So we need to extend the drilled hole which is the current rocker feed supply from the rocker feed banjo bolt housing up to meet the position of the new feed to supply the AVL/Electra-X timing cover, and drill a hole in the joint face where the timing cover sits, using an old Electra-X gasket to mark the position of this hole. Just like the meeting of the English and French bores of the Channel Tunnel in 1991, it all meets up a treat! Note the original hole for the rocker feed side with the 6mm allen screw, the hole has been tapped 6mm for a grub screw to seal it off.




What you CAN’T really see is that the hole into the joint face actually has to be drilled off-perpendicular otherwise the holes won’t meet up. More like 100 (or 80?) degrees, this shows you more clearly.



So here is a pile of dinky 6mm grub screws made of best stainless chineseum, and here is some Loctite.



That’s that taken care of.



Just re-check with the old Electra-X timing cover gasket, it actually lines up better than this.



So after much cleaning out of swarf, we have a nice new oil way. These are now officially lean-burn Bullet cases.



Meanwhile, what does every custom Bullet engine need? That’s right, a great big hole bored into the oil tank.



Ideally I would like to have been able to tap that for 0.25 inch BSP but the metal is almost perilously thin at that point, so I shall have to use the bulkhead fitting seen lurking in some of the previous pictures with a big nut on the back and a copper washer either side (and possibly half a tube of Tri-Bond. Ahem). Here’s a better shot of it.



That doesn’t look quite so bad.



OK, now what is this for? The answer is an oil level gauge so that I can easily see where the oil has got to. There’s another hole drilled to take a 13mm stainless P clip, the one shown is a bit bigger but will give you the idea.



Of course the risk with this is that a pressurized oil tank will simply pump all of the oil out of the top of the gauge, SO I have tapped the drive side oil tank 0.25 inch BSP for a couple of extra breather outlets, which will feed to the air filter. There will also be a Hitchcocks’ breather tower which will serve as the breather input to the oil tank as well as an extra vent. Sorry these two photos are a bit fuzzy.





With a freer-breathing oil tank I have opened up the drain hole from the timing chest a bit.



I also noticed that the two fins on the drive side casing stuck out a bit beyond the bottom fin of the Electra-X cyclinder. Also note the 5/16 inch BSC stud holes, but the Electra-X cylinder studs are 8mm/M8. More on that later.



Giving the fins a quick trim is easy enough, though.



Now the replacement crankcases are from an electric start Bullet. The will make using the Electra-X rocker oil pipe easy but will cause some extra work where the primary cover is concerned. Why?



The kick-start chain case mounting holes are in the wrong place.



The stud holes are actually a couple of mm oversize, so I used a 10mm drill to mark the spots for drilling, lined up on a 5/16 inch BSF stud in the chain adjuster stud hole.





Then it’s a case of 3 x 6.8mm holes (tapping size for the M8 thread)



Get in there with the M8 taps.



There we are, it seems to be in the right place.

.

OK. now what about those cylinder studs? Well, I had thought about getting the stud holes helicoiled for M8 studs, but having a closer look at the threads they seem to be in very good condition, shame to disturb them. So we're looking for a set of 5/16" studs the right length. However I am now addicted to using M8 flanged stainless steel nuts on my AVL engines. This may be bad practice, but I ended up getting some custom made studs from EN16T, 5/16" BSC at the crankcase end, M8 on top! They may need trimming a little as stock length AVL studs leave a large chunk of exposed thread at the top, that always looked wrong to me.



There have been another couple of shifts in the project too.

During one of my conversations with John Hutchings he told me about the tuned Bullet he had built with a Lucas SR1 magneto, but running fixed ignition advance.  Fancy kick-starting one of those? John assured me you can, it's perfectly OK if you use the proper starting drill and keep the throttle closed. However, other people would want to borrow the bike, which was a good performer, only to find that, when they ignored his instructions and tried to start with the throttle open, the bike would kick back rather assertively. In order to reduce the instances of ankle injuries he reluctantly fitted the auto-advance magneto pinion which made starting less risky. The down side was that the performance lost some of its sparkle, as the fixed advance gave a livelier engine at all revs once the thing was safely started.

So could I carry on with the SR1 but just fit a plain timing pinion and leave the auto advance on the bench? Hmm, I find that getting older seems to take its toll on any gung-ho I might ever have possessed. WHAT ABOUT a manual advance and retard  magneto? That was good enough for my father and his bikes.

Right, game on. Which mag, though? Well some kind of platform mounted magneto would certainly look classic, and as Grumbern has shown with Project Laubfrosch, modifying the Indian Bullet crankcases is just a question of some accurate machining and a couple of adapter plates, but I do not have the equipment, skills or patience for that, now matter how great a BT-H KD1TT mag would look or perform, or even a vanilla Lucas N1, more within my price range.

OK, flange mounted it is then, but the SR1 manual advance magnetos don't exist apart from home-brews, so what am I left with? Lucas K1F or BT-H KC1?  Well the answer came at the Beaulieu Eurojumble (swap meet) in September, I found a just about working working but very much in need of overhaul KC1 at an affordable price. Now there are a couple of issues with this, but it's the one.

First off, it didn't have the manual advance end plate, most likely it was off a Velocette with an auto advance drive pinion. However, speaking to the magneto repair man, I was informed that he had the parts to fit the manual advance during the overhaul, so that is taken care of.

Second, the magneto doesn't fit! Although it is flange mounted, the K1F/KC1 flange is larger, same as on the later RE twins the raised section in the middle of the flange is about 2"/50mm, the hole in the back of the crankcase is 1 5/8" or 41mm to fit the SR1 (originally). We'll see about that.

Machining a shallow recess (no more than about 3mm) in the back of the timing chest shouldn't be too hard with suitable hole saw, I just need to get it lined up accurately.

The flange size actually isn't such an obstacle either. I have an old alloy adapter plate used for fitting K2F magnetos to RE twins.As the SR2 magneto the twins originally used has exactly the same body shell casting as the SR1, and thus the holes for the three 1/4" screws in the back of the twins' crankcases are in the same position, all the holes line up, so it was just a case of using the plate on the back of the mag to mark the hole centers, then drill and tap for three 1/4" BSF screws



Still doesn't fit?



Also I trimmed the area around the bottom mounting hole on the mag as clearance on the Bullet crankcase is tight. Took off just enough to allow it to fit , but still leaving plenty of metal in case it ever has to go back on a Velocette. The breather pipe unions will need some more thought as to how to route the breather hose given the extra length of the BT-H magneto, no big deal.

You might have noticed the tuned head from the inlet port. This was originally opened out for fitting a big 36mm Mikuni on my old Electra-X, though on remeasuring the hole I found that it was nearer 38mm or 1.5". Big hole.

Now it would be very easy to adapt a 1.5" Amal GP carb to go on there, though for street use that might not be the wisest choice,  however cool it might look. But then a 38mm Dell'Orto PHM carb from a BMW R90S came up on ebay, which is definitely a performance carb. That is now waiting to go on, which it can once I get a custom alloy mount made up.



That's it for now, I have plenty to do getting the Electra flat-tracker finished, and the magneto won't be back until some time in January, so I'm hoping we'll see a lot more progress in the new year.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


mattjohnson207

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
  • Karma: 0
Reply #7 on: December 17, 2019, 05:35:14 am
Just in time Adrian!    just today split my cases and freed the crank.  I'm interested in doing the NU2205 bearing mod.   Looks, to a non machinist, that it just needs to be machined out a little deeper...not wider?
        Have a couple of IB tappet guides that I will have turned down, leaving a collar,   and I am definitely putting in that magnetic sump plug!   
         Thanks !


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #8 on: December 17, 2019, 12:10:08 pm
Yes, the bearing is wider, so the housing only has to be deeper, same bore. A quick check of a bearing catalog ought to confirm this.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,297
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #9 on: December 17, 2019, 02:27:49 pm
3mm deeper.
Re-route the oil dripper hole to suit, as Adrian showed in his photo.
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #10 on: December 17, 2019, 03:41:51 pm
AFAIK it's a C3 fit, same as the other main bearings.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


EnfieldGuy

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 0
Reply #11 on: December 18, 2019, 12:06:30 pm
Nice project Adrian, its great to read through threads like this with the steps listed, will follow this one ;D ;D


heloego

  • A 2x4. My kingdom for a 2x4!
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,485
  • Karma: 0
  • USA '12 C5, '06 ElectraX
Reply #12 on: December 19, 2019, 03:29:37 am
In total agreement here!
Love what you're doing, Adrian!
'18 Bonneville T-100, Blue/White
'12 C5 Classic
'06 Electra X AVL w/32mm Mikuni and Gold Star system.


mattjohnson207

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
  • Karma: 0
Reply #13 on: December 19, 2019, 07:17:47 am
thanks for the direction...Ill be looking for a machinist


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #14 on: December 21, 2019, 03:43:01 pm
More magneto madness. Mmm.

I heard back from the guy restoring the magneto, he has managed to get it stripped for inspection, and much as anticipated, it is totally worn out, though fortunately it has not been the victim of any bodged repairs. Back in September he deliberately quoted for a high repair bill cost to be on the safe side, and that's what it's going to be. Total rebuild plus conversion to manual advance is, wait for it, 600GBP plus VAT @ 20% = 720 GBP or approximately $935 USD.

Given the wealth of expressions available in American English for expressing surprise and disbelief, I'm sure you could suggest one or two.

Then just when you think this is already getting a little too crazy, another BT-H KC1 magneto appears on ebay UK. This one HAS manual advance, and the vendor claims it's in good order with a healthy spark. Now the repair costs for the first KC1 magneto, steep as they are, are expected and budgeted for, with money being put aside each month, but I was hoping for a quiet month to pay for all the Christmas stuff. The sensible thing would be to have said "that's nice" then forget it.

You can see where this is headed, can't you?  ::)

Yep, winning bid paced, the magneto arrived Wednesday, and yes it has a good spark.  :) It even had the advance/retard cable fitted, though this is in need of replacement, only the missing points cover needs replacing, but these are available.





Here's the crankcase modified to take the KC1's locating spigot, same diameter as a Lucas K1f (or K2F), I manged to line up a 50mm hole saw using an old magneto adapter plate off a RE twin.



Now there's been one rather nagging question over this, that advance/retard cable exit is on the left hand side like the Lucas N1 magnetos that RE used to fit to the competition variants of the Bullet, e.g. the Fury and the Indian Westerner . However the Lucas cable exits the magneto vertically, but the BT-H exits at an angle, possibly not an issue on a Velocette or JAP speedway engine, but on a Bullet this could cause the cable to run foul of the cylinder barrel. Will it fit?



Looks like the answer is "yes". Careful routing of the cable (maybe a piece if stainless steel braided oil hose as a heat shield) should protect the new cable.

Now the elephant in the room is that if I'm already expecting to get my other magneto back in A1 condition (with the cable exit on the RIGHT hand side), why on earth did I buy this one? That's a good question. I think it's because I wanted to know if it would fit!  ::)  :P

This mag may well end up on my other AVL hybrid, which is still prone to pinking/pinging under certain conditions. The electronic magneto on there at the moment does a fine job, but its automatic advance/retard function won't let me control the ignition once pinging does start, being able to control the ignition manually will let me slacken off the advance to suit.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,297
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #15 on: December 21, 2019, 04:41:25 pm
Wow!
What a good find, Adrian!
Lucky you!
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #16 on: December 21, 2019, 10:15:39 pm
I just missed out on another one a couple of weeks previously by £2, determined not to be outbid on this one - up to a point- and got it for £113 (or $147) plus mail costs. They seem quite easy to come by at the moment, currently FIVE complete KC1s on ebay UK.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=BTH+KC1+magneto&_sacat=0

Only one of these already has the manual advance end plate - I sent the vendor a message asking what condition it was in and got no reply, so didn't bother with it.

There's a racing version of this magneto around too, the BKH1-TT. I am unlikely ever to find one.

A.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 10:25:59 pm by Adrian II »
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


heloego

  • A 2x4. My kingdom for a 2x4!
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,485
  • Karma: 0
  • USA '12 C5, '06 ElectraX
Reply #17 on: December 22, 2019, 12:08:17 am
Fantastic find(s)!Keep it up! ;D
'18 Bonneville T-100, Blue/White
'12 C5 Classic
'06 Electra X AVL w/32mm Mikuni and Gold Star system.


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #18 on: January 06, 2020, 12:20:33 pm
Just for the record I thought I ought to mount the thing properly.

So here it is with no visible means of support.



Remember this?



That's how this works.



the main reason for the bolt-on test was to check that my attempts at machinging were accurate enough for the mag drive pinion and the idler pinion to mesh properly.

Fits pretty well. And relax...



A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #19 on: January 22, 2020, 10:45:57 pm
After a long wait I got the main magneto back for the project today.

Dave Lindsley has done a wonderful job on refurbishing a totally clapped-out relic into a fully functional spark generator, and does it spark!. It even has that newly refurbished smell. Also the adavance/retard is on the right hand side, so the cable won't conflict with the cylinder at all. Might get the other one swapped over.





It didn't have an oil seal before, but he's fitted one, nice!



Meanwhile I managed to get a brass points cover for the spare mag from someone in a part of Australia that hasn't burnt down. The original would have been chromed but I shall probably let it go as is.



Maybe now it's time to get that engine built?

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #20 on: February 26, 2020, 07:21:55 pm
Just for a bit of bling, I've gone for the racing magneto look with a repro points cover and adapter ring. nothing wrong with the "vanilla" points cover but this one also has a carbon brush and terminal to run a kill switch off it, as well as looking the business. It's actually molded black nylon, but it all looks OK with a quick spray of primer and Ford champagne gold. To go for the whole illusion I should probably use hex-head screws with the heads drilled and lock-wired.

A.

Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,297
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #21 on: February 26, 2020, 08:50:05 pm
Nice looking unit!
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #22 on: August 23, 2020, 04:40:51 pm
Hey, it has been a while with this one, time to kick a bit more life back into this project.

Having briefly flirted with the idea of going over to a CGT 535 top end after seeing this done successfully (and decided against it, maybe another time?), I'm keeping with the AVL top-end.

That means, for me, at least, there has to be an iron barrel-type decompressor valve in the cylinder head. I have posted pictures of the successful conversion I carried out on my first AVL hybrid, and several AVL owners have since done the same. What I didn't do then was post any "how it's done" pictures, so if anyone is vaguely interested, I remembered to take some pictures this time.

OK, old ground first, here's what I want to end up with, sorry for posting these yet again.





Starting point then is a scabby 500 AVL head like this one. See those three fins above the spark plug hole in the middle? Not for long, you won't. Target acquired...



The actual head I'm using this time is off my old Electra-X, all that tuning work I put into it is not going to waste. It also scrubbed up nicely after my local finishers managed to strip/vapour blast the cruddy old powder coating off it. They cleaned up the cylinder too.

Having neither the milling machine nor the skills to use one, I found the best way to remove the three fins was with a rod saw blade in a humble hacksaw, using a finger sander (and a little help from a tungsten carbide burr for a die grinder in the hand-held drill) to clean the head up afterwards. The bolt-on carb stub from Mikuni Oz doesn't look as though it really belongs, despite being a good fit where it matters, but I shall be coming back to that in a few days.



Next job, center-punch for the correct location. The valve body has a 14 x 1.25mm thread (which is why twin-plugging an iron barrel engine is quite an easy task), I need to start the pilot drill just over 7mm from the edge of the combustion chamber. Too far in and it gets too close to the valve seats.



Because I want a nice accurate job it's off to the drill press.



I'm not best pleased when the drill bit deflects to the left by 2mm, of course I keep forgetting this is an el-cheapo drill press with a bit of slop in its vertical movement, which doesn't seem to like drilling fresh holes where the center-punch should tell it too. Once this poor workman had finished blaming the tools  :-[, it was time for a bit of un-planned die-grinder action to avoid any further foul-ups. This one. I bet Grumbern never has this happen...  ;)



I should have drilled it with the hand-held to start with, never mind. With a now un-missable hole for the pilot bore things were heading in the right direction once more, you can just see how this had been going wrong.



At last, the pilot hole is through, any bit in the drill press will now have a hole to follow.



Repeat in stages until - well the charts say 12.5mm tapping size for 14mm spark plug thread, but my 1/2" long series bit is fine. The drill press doesn't mess this one up.



Let's see if I can get THIS right, sorry for fuzzy picture,



And RELAX, the tap has cut a good thread all the way down (or up).  8) I won't be needing the insert kit, unlike last time.



Stay focused, Adrian...



Last job, counter-bore 7/8" to get the valve sitting at the right height/depth, with the head of the decomp valve level with the surface of the combustion chamber. I do have a secret weapon to flatten out the bottom of the counter-bore for the valve body's seat if needed, though I think the copper crush washer will manage by itself.



Hope this was of interest.

A.










Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,297
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #23 on: August 23, 2020, 08:07:10 pm
Clean job, Adrian!
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #24 on: August 23, 2020, 08:38:46 pm
I admit I was starting to worry when the pilot drill began wandering off.  ::)

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


heloego

  • A 2x4. My kingdom for a 2x4!
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,485
  • Karma: 0
  • USA '12 C5, '06 ElectraX
Reply #25 on: August 24, 2020, 03:56:16 am
   Yes!
   Very neat job Adrian! And very glad to see the head was cleaned up properly by the blasters that cleaned up the head.
'18 Bonneville T-100, Blue/White
'12 C5 Classic
'06 Electra X AVL w/32mm Mikuni and Gold Star system.


AzCal Retred

  • Chennai Wrencher
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,747
  • Karma: 0
  • Laissez le bon temps rouler! Fresno, CA
Reply #26 on: August 26, 2020, 06:03:24 pm
Beautiful work! Is the Electra head about the same as running the Hitchcocks Big Head? The combustion chamber & valve included angles look very nice. The port aperture pictures from another thread look very formidable.

The oil level gage in the tank will have no differential pressure "pumping" issues if the top of the gage vents directly back to the oil tank. That way the instantaneous pulse pressures are the same on top of the column as on the bottom, leaving just the fluid pressure to determine level.

Great, informative, educational stuff - thanks for sharing this project.  - ACR -
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #27 on: August 26, 2020, 09:44:37 pm
Rather than plumb the oil gauge back into the top of the oil tank I'm relying on extra oil tank breathers. Something like a model steam locomotive boiler water level gauge would be where you're coming from, I did find one, but it looked at bit vulnerable to be situated next to the heel of my right boot. The gauge I'm using has a partial brass shield.

The Hitchcocks' replica big head still has the classic hemi-head combustion chamber, though the one on my sort-of Fury replica has been re-worked to include a proper squish band. The AVL combustion chamber (which is pretty much unchanged for the EFI/UCE models) is a more modern design. Still, that's not the last word on AVL heads, have a look at tooseevee's Fireballed AVL head back in the archives, I assume the pictures are still up. It's a shame Ace didn't get a few more customers for this, I gather it's quite something.

Meanwhile, just a minor job, I had another look at that carb mount. Looks like it's just slapped on there, "yeah, good enough...". No.



OK, got 6mm Tufnol/Micarta? Check. 38mm hole-saw? Check. Time to play.

Some marking out, drilling, cutting and filing later, this emerges.









Which gives me this, at least it looks like it's trying to belong.



A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


tooseevee

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,706
  • Karma: 0
  • A Simple Twist Of Fate
Reply #28 on: August 27, 2020, 12:38:59 am
         I haven't commented, but I love what you're doing and I'm so F-ing jealous I might just have a hissy fit and roll on the floor kicking my feet so I haven't commented  :) :) :) Hozatt for coming full circle (jerk) with a sentence?

         It just so happens that I just started and ran the '08 Acehead after a couple weeks before I looked here (I've been a bit busy with a 30' trench and a giant hole for a drywell) . I canNOT start it cold with the kickker so I just punch the PHD button and try not to feel bad about it. I just literally breathe on the button and it is running and sits there and idles just as it should (NO THROTTLE!). In about 15 seconds it will steadily increase to about a thousand. Perfection!  :)   

         I can upload some pictures of Ace's excellent headwork, for which I will be eternally grateful and praise his talents and expertise to the heavens, if anyone's interested. I have also figured out the war between my camera and my (F*cking) Windows laptop so I MIGHT get some pics up of the new black exhaust. After Lo, these many weeks  ::) :)

          It's been so bloody HOT here the birds are walking.
'08 Black AVL Classic.ACEhead 9.8:1/manifold/canister. TM32/Open short bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #29 on: August 27, 2020, 12:03:40 pm
Yes, your new avatar shows the re-worked combustion chamber pretty well. Ages ago I put up a composite photo of the AVL fireball combustion chamber alongside a stock one, ACE might still have it somewhere.

No matter, whatever I manage to come up with you'll still have a very rare and (for AVL fans, at least!) desirable motorcycle.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #30 on: August 28, 2020, 09:23:46 pm
Another small task is done.

The carb-to-head flange adaptor is sorted, but there’s still a bit of an issue with the carb. Fans of the Dell’Orto will know that some of their carbs come with stubs that fit into a short connecting hose, while some of them clamp onto a stub fitted to the cylinder head. The carb is off a BMW R90S, BMW specified the clamp-on type (as did some big Ducatis), with a nylon sleeve between the carb and the stub (which was steel in the BMW’s case).



The O/D of the nylon sleeve is 48mm, the I/D of the nylon sleeve (therefore the O/D of the BMW stub) is 45mm. Only problem is my Mikuni mount’s stub is 44mm, the carb clamp won’t take up that much slack.



While I was tempted to get my son-in-law to knock one out in plastic with the smaller I/D on his 3D printer (which I might still do if the following doesn’t work), a search on ebay revealed that there was some alloy tubing exactly the right size to marry up the two, viz 48mm O/D x 44mm I/D. A short length of it arrived today, so I sawed off a piece to fit into the carb.  The is bore is slightly too tight just to push onto the Mikuni stub, but heating it up a little let me tap it on with a mallet, I also had a good smear of blue Loctite between the two. Could have used stud and bearing fit grade, but I might want to remove it at same stage, e.g. if I ever want to fit a Mikuni.



I will also need a short length of alloy filler tube, with a little notch to clear a fuel drilling, but that’s on order too.



Time to offer the carb up, now doesn’t THAT look sexier than a Mikarb CV29? I might still go for an air filter, I have not finally decided yet.



Loads of room for the magneto too, again if I need to revert to a Lucas SR1, it looks like there’s still plenty of room. Good. I am alsofairly condifent that the PHM to under tank clearance issue I ran into with Not A Fury should not happen here. The crankshaft bearings are due next week, while the Hitchcocks’ crank waits patiently in its carboard box just behind.



Getting closer.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,297
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #31 on: August 28, 2020, 09:38:20 pm
Very sexy!
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Nitrowing

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
  • Karma: 0
Reply #32 on: August 28, 2020, 10:48:15 pm
Looking good  8)
No wonder we no longer have a motor industry


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #33 on: August 28, 2020, 11:40:47 pm
Adding weight, though!  ;D

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Nitrowing

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
  • Karma: 0
Reply #34 on: August 29, 2020, 01:21:11 am
Adding weight, though!  ;D

A.
I'll wager it's lighter than the standard airbox & filter  ;D
No wonder we no longer have a motor industry


AzCal Retred

  • Chennai Wrencher
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,747
  • Karma: 0
  • Laissez le bon temps rouler! Fresno, CA
Reply #35 on: August 29, 2020, 02:12:48 am
Beautiful work, as is usual for you! That screen keeps out gravel, loose coins, errant fasteners, etc. Skip the air filter, you're not riding in Arizona! ;D   - ACR -
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


heloego

  • A 2x4. My kingdom for a 2x4!
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,485
  • Karma: 0
  • USA '12 C5, '06 ElectraX
Reply #36 on: August 29, 2020, 10:50:45 pm
Nice, Adrian!
That alloy sleeve was a good find, too! Looks great!  8)
'18 Bonneville T-100, Blue/White
'12 C5 Classic
'06 Electra X AVL w/32mm Mikuni and Gold Star system.


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #37 on: August 31, 2020, 08:21:25 pm
Just a quick few minutes spent on the head this afternoon, the decomp valve arrived, so I finished off counter-boring the decomp valve hole.

Also trimmed and smoothed the rough/sharp edges where the threaded hole meets the combustion chamber.





Thought I'd better check for carb clearance with the other Electra-X based engine that's still occupying the project frame, looks like I was right about there being enough carb to underside of tank clearance. However, clearance between the bottom of the frame lug for the head steady and part of the Dell'Orto's accelerator pump looks like it will be minimal, the underside of the lug may get 2mm trimmed off it on the right-hand side. I will have another look once the engine is built and fitted.

A.

Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


AzCal Retred

  • Chennai Wrencher
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,747
  • Karma: 0
  • Laissez le bon temps rouler! Fresno, CA
Reply #38 on: September 02, 2020, 12:42:42 am
Adrian - do you polish the casting roughness out those combustion chambers later or have them ceramic coated? I've heard of using ceramic inside the exhaust port also for additional head heat rejection. Or maybe you've found that there's no operational difference?  - ACR -
A brace of 1999 Bullets: 1 Red Deluxe, 1 Green Standard. Also, 1 wee orphan 1956 Fire Arrow project.


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #39 on: September 02, 2020, 03:38:39 am
I have never tried to polish the inside of the combustion chamber on these, they're not that bad, though the iron barrel Bullet's combustion chambers were always machined, which makes them look a little rougher by comparison. As far as I know only Ace has used ceramic coating on the inside of these heads, but AFTER the combustion chamber has been built up with weld and re-worked. I have however smoothed off the edges of the combustion chamber as well as the decompressor hole.

There are some areas where these heads can use a bit of work.

1. Inlet port. I posted a picture of the stock port recently, what's with the oval-ish port shape, 32 x 36mm, roughly? The stock carb on these was only a CV29. Dell'Orto make a carb with an oval port, maybe I should have bought one of those for it. Anyhow, it makes opening up for a larger carb easy.

2. Exhuast port. These are terrible on a stock head, a very small hole, and rough barely describes the finish. With the narrow inner bore lean-burn exhaust pipe it probably wasn't worth the factory's time to finish them properly, that was left to us!

3. Valve seats. For some reason the outside edges stick out into the combustion chamber by about 1mm, on this head I had them cut back some years ago so that the outer edges are flush with the combustion chamber surface. Also they're not smoothly blended into their respective ports, with the inlet valve seat in particular actually sticks out into the inlet tract slightly.

I gather that the Ace Fireball conversion for the AVL head deals with all of those issues.

That said, Bullet Whisperer managed to get a tuned Electra-X to do 103 mph with a totally stock head, this was left unchanged at the customer's request. So as imperfect as they are, you can still put together a decent engine with one.

Today I got the alloy tube to finish off the carb mount.



There is a teeny hole drilled in the carb as part of the idle circuit, but you can see where the end of the mounting stub could obstruct it.



Just needs a groove filed in the end of the stub.



A.


Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,297
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #40 on: September 02, 2020, 03:55:27 am
Yeah, we did chamber and exhaust port coatings on all the Fireball heads.
The AVL wasn't really needy for it because it has plenty of cooling ability as it is.
But, there are still some advantages of the coatings, and they don't cost much.
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #41 on: September 13, 2020, 10:00:15 pm
Just a little timing cover work today.

Sooner or later you realize that the AVL timing cover won't fit. It looks as though it OUGHT to but try it...

What's the problem?

1. Cam spindles. The adjustable spindle ends on the AVL engine are reduced in diameter from ⅝" (15.88mm) to 15mm. Why? No idea. If you want to use fixed as opposed to adjustable cam spindles (that'll be me) you have to break out the ⅝" reamer or drill as the old design uses a ⅝" diameter for the entire length of the spindle. Or so I thought. Turns out Henry Price was able to get some fixed spindles for very late iron barrel Bullet with the reduced end diameter. That was a new one on me, but here one is on the right next to the usual type.



However the AVL timing cover I'm using already had the holes reamed out to ⅝", so that's one job less. So where's the other problem?

2. Idler pinion spindles. With a crank-mounted ignition the AVL design has no idler gears to drive a contact breaker, so neither the timing side crankcase nor the inside of the timing cover is fully machined.



It needs to look like the inside of the iron barrel's timing cover.



The good news is that the part-drilled top hole and the un-drilled lower hole (which still has an indentation for the drilling) picks up a 1/2" drill in pretty much exactly the right place to line up with the idler spindles in the crankcase.



That just left me needing to mill the ends of the holes in the cover to match the depth of the ones in the iron barrel timing cover. My improvised milling machine (best not to ask!) managed to do the job, not prize winning stuff but it checks out fine against the i.b. cover now.





Fits fine now. :)



A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


heloego

  • A 2x4. My kingdom for a 2x4!
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,485
  • Karma: 0
  • USA '12 C5, '06 ElectraX
Reply #42 on: September 14, 2020, 04:08:53 am
Nice work, and glad it went easily enough for ya!  ;D
'18 Bonneville T-100, Blue/White
'12 C5 Classic
'06 Electra X AVL w/32mm Mikuni and Gold Star system.


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,297
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #43 on: September 14, 2020, 04:39:15 pm
A lotta work!
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #44 on: September 14, 2020, 06:58:36 pm
Actually one of the easier jobs!  :)

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #45 on: March 05, 2021, 01:36:55 pm
Carburetor choice?

I've been thinking about that, I dug out the spare cylinder head a while ago and and ported that too.



Back in the summer I fitted a big Dell'Orto PHM38, you may remember.



But if we're looking at alternative carbs, the name Mikuni has to come up at some stage, Niche Cyle in the US offered me a good deal on a VM38 with XT500 Yamaha jetting, and someone in California was selling the exact manifold which would let me bolt it straight on. Thank you, America!



While finally (unless someone has a spare Keihin FCR39) I needed to revisit the Amal carb options. The 38mm Mk2 Concentric would do the job, though these days you're forced to look around for a used or the odd NOS item if you want one that size. Maybe something more er... classic?







Yep, a GP 1½" carb from Mr H. set up to RE Fury specs, with a good used float bowl off ebay. The issue of the non-matching stud centers (60mm on the head, 65mm on the carb) will need some work, but I filed down the inside faces of a couple of 6mm studs just to get the carb on there. In case you're wonder what happened to the magneto, the engine in that frame is the one which will eventually be used in my wife's project bike but which is the one ORIGINALLY intended for this project.

The spare head might go on the street tracker or my other AVL hybrid.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


tooseevee

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,706
  • Karma: 0
  • A Simple Twist Of Fate
Reply #46 on: March 06, 2021, 12:03:33 pm
Yeah, we did chamber and exhaust port coatings on all the Fireball heads.
The AVL wasn't really needy for it because it has plenty of cooling ability as it is.
But, there are still some advantages of the coatings, and they don't cost much.

            Here's my '08 AVL head after Ace and Mondello's worked their magic on it, lo, these many years ago. Thanks again, Ace. I've never regretted it. The coating just plain looks good though never seen.

            The only thing I regret now, with 20/20 hindsight, is that I didn't have you install a really nice, little decompressor valve. It is INCREDIBLY difficult to get just past TDC with your foot. In fact I'll say this : "It's bloody imPOSSible"! I can kick start it reliably ONLY after it's been run down the road and is warm. Cold kicks? Impossible.

             Starts cold almost instantly with the button so why worry?
'08 Black AVL Classic.ACEhead 9.8:1/manifold/canister. TM32/Open short bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #47 on: March 06, 2021, 02:01:52 pm
Having the carb dialed in correctly must help, and if I ever renew an ignition coil your choice of Pertronix Flame Thrower has been noted.Champion plugs now preferred too! Also, my old Electra-X's starter motor still sits forlornly in the garage, it's yours if the one on your AVL Classic ever goes belly up.

Should the need ever arise, I don't think retro-fitting one of the smaller 10mm decomp valves would be too much of a challenge, Ace seemed to think it was do-able when I discussed it with him some time ago. It has certainly been done with the CGT535 head.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


tooseevee

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,706
  • Karma: 0
  • A Simple Twist Of Fate
Reply #48 on: March 06, 2021, 05:20:56 pm
            Here's my '08 AVL head after Ace and Mondello's worked their magic on it, lo, these many years ago. Thanks again, Ace. I've never regretted it. The coating just plain looks good though never seen.

            The only thing I regret now, with 20/20 hindsight, is that I didn't have you install a really nice, little decompressor valve. It is INCREDIBLY difficult to get just past TDC with your foot. In fact I'll say this : "It's bloody imPOSSible"! I can kick start it reliably ONLY after it's been run down the road and is warm. Cold kicks? Impossible.

             Starts cold almost instantly with the button so why worry?

            I forgot the damn picture  :-[ ???
'08 Black AVL Classic.ACEhead 9.8:1/manifold/canister. TM32/Open short bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades


Adrian II

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,630
  • Karma: 0
  • Sharing my ignorance with anyone who needs it
Reply #49 on: March 06, 2021, 11:36:34 pm
Yes, it looks like 100 mph just sat on the bench. Still plenty of room for that decomp valve. I think it was a great shame there wasn't more interest in the AVL Fireball at the time, yours will be quite a collector's piece.

How many of these did you do, Ace? They must be a lot rarer than the IB Fireballs?

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,297
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #50 on: March 07, 2021, 01:52:11 am
Total of 3 AVL Fireball heads were done.

Iron Barrel Fireball heads were around 45 total.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 02:14:03 am by ace.cafe »
Home of the Fireball 535 !


tooseevee

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,706
  • Karma: 0
  • A Simple Twist Of Fate
Reply #51 on: March 07, 2021, 12:02:35 pm
Having the carb dialed in correctly must help, and if I ever renew an ignition coil your choice of Pertronix Flame Thrower has been noted.Champion plugs now preferred too! Also, my old Electra-X's starter motor still sits forlornly in the garage, it's yours if the one on your AVL Classic ever goes belly up.

Should the need ever arise, I don't think retro-fitting one of the smaller 10mm decomp valves would be too much of a challenge, Ace seemed to think it was do-able when I discussed it with him some time ago. It has certainly been done with the CGT535 head.

A.

            Yes. I believe I'm pretty damn close on the carb dialing. Godknows I've spent enough time at it and experimenting. I get a good idle and really good, smooth road performance.

            BUT, never satisfied, I've made a few changes that I will experiment with when it gets warm. I'm like a crippled up old turtle in the cold.

             Right now (I mean last season), I get a good mixture at a bit less than 1 and a half turns out on the mixture screw (so the 27.5 Pilot must be OK) and I can idle it down suicidally low and it won't die (which I only do as an experiment). I NEVer dies on it's own. I quit worrying about that long ago.

             So I've had the carb off and cleaned and petted, etc., and I have leaned the needle one notch just to see what happens. If it doesn't improve anything I will put the needle back in the middle notch as it was before. Also, because the plug is still a bit blacker than I like to see them, I'm going to try a 1 number hotter Champion plug, but only AFter the needle notch change experiment. The needle change may change the plug. Who knows?

             The plug looked good/OK at the middle notch, but just slightly blacker than I like to see.

             I also have bought a Gunson Colortune and cannot WAIT to play with THAT puppy  :)  From what I read, I'll be able to tune from idle to mid-range in the garage using the colors and that's where I do ALL of my riding.

              Much of my cold kick start problem I'm sure may be me (although it was already a problem in 2014). I've lost a lot of muscle strength plus it hurts like hell now and after 3 or four kicks I'm ruined if it hasn't started. Also I only weigh 124 now at 83 (Birthday March 5th). Also 9.8:1 comp.

           

« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 12:05:43 pm by tooseevee »
'08 Black AVL Classic.ACEhead 9.8:1/manifold/canister. TM32/Open short bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades