[REpozer]

Hello all , I’m coming back after long hiatus.
Do you have any tire/ tyre recommendations? I’m considering getting an old school trials type pattern , might go K70 , what stores  and tyres do you like ? Cheers .

[AzCal Retred]

These bikes are fairly heavy. A 4.00x19 Duro HF308 for the rear. Front 3.50x19 Duro or K70 on the front. The current crop of K70's are sticky but wear fast, but not a problem on the front. The Duro HF308 wears & performs very much like the K70's of yore. Reasonable street & trail traction and 9K - 12K life. The bike will sit slightly higher but the center stand will work fine.

[stinkwheel]

There are a lot of trials style tyres out there as long as you don't want to do actual trials on them. I have Heidenau K67s on mine. They look the part but don't grip very well on mud or wet grass. They don't actually make a proper trials tyre in 19" which is why I'm in the process of fitting an 18" wheel to mine.

[Mr_84]

G’day
The great tyre debate, K70s are good with the trials pattern as mentioned, but that damn rear wears so very fast especially on our coarse roads (NZ) .
I currently have a K70 on the front and a Metzeler Block C on the rear and definitely lasts longer but still wears on our roads .
 Had the  Metzeler on the front but didn’t like the large profile but still a very good tyre just my preference on the profile size.

I’m going to try the Dunlop TT100s next just out of interest , more roady looking compared to the K70 .
Anyone tried the TT100 ?

 A pic of our coarse back roads .

[AzCal Retred]

Looks like our roads here. The Duro HF308 has held up very well. A 4.00x19 puts more rubber on the ground, decreasing the loading per unit area. Also it's rated at about 750 pounds vs. the 500 or so for the 3.50x19. The bike already weighs +400 pounds, the rider adds another 150-200, the slightly larger tire gives you more wiggle room for a passenger or luggage.

[ddavidv]

I had Duros on my KLR. The rear performed admirably and seemed to last decently. The front became cupped or scalloped about halfway through it's life. But I would buy another rear Duro any day. I'm not afraid to mix/match front and rear to get what I want.

[Seipgam]

Last time I wanted a tyre here in Oz (post covid) it was a case of have what you can get. Hopefully supply has improved in the last 12 months.
Anyway, I’m running Mitas H01 3.25 on the front and H02 4.00 on the rear. They have served me well and seem good value for the wear I’m getting.
Grip well enough for what I need, I’m not one to test how sticky the sidewalls are.

[allanfox]

Both mine came fitted with Conti TwinDuros and have always happily grounded on corners with them, a bit noisy but no problems so far. 

[BruLan]

Sorry to jump on this thread, but I'm looking at making my 65 look a little different and wonder how large (wide) tyres can be fitted ?
Looking for something more Trials / Bobber based.
Any recommendations appreciated
TY

[AzCal Retred]

A 4.00x19 will fit on the front but you'll have to either raise the front fender or live with road spray when the road's wet. Don't follow any motorhomes or cattle trucks...

[Adrian II]

The factory swinging arm on the Sixty-5 limits your choice of tyre, anything much above a 3.50", 410 or a 100/90  section is going to foul the chain guard or the front of the swinging arm. I tried an Avon 4.00" x 18" AM26 on one of mine, had it truly been 4" wide it would not have been a problem, but the width was actually 116mm or roughly 4⅝" inches. It might pay you to check the tyre data sheets in various manufacturers' web sites. With that tyre on, the wheel would only fit at the very back-end of the chain adjustment range.

A.

[stinkwheel]

As above, I managed to fit a 4.00 x 19 trials pattern tyre on mine but you could just about get a fag paper between the tyre and the swingarm if you snipped the nibs off. Other brands may not fit.

[Adrian II]

If you desperately want to fit a wider rear tyre, Hitchcocks' sell a wider swinging arm to fit your frame, but it does seem ludicrously expensive!

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/rear-suspension/21138#

A,

[BruLan]

If you desperately want to fit a wider rear tyre, Hitchcocks' sell a wider swinging arm to fit your frame, but it does seem ludicrously expensive!

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/rear-suspension/21138#

A,

That's certainly reassuringly expensive 

[AndyMcP]

Take an angle grinder to it, like they do on many of the YouTube channels.  What could possibly go wrong?! 

[Adrian II]

You probably could get your existing swinging arm modified, but I'd want it done in a proper jig to keep the end plates and front tube kept in the correct position while any cut and shut is going on. THEN go gung-ho with the angle grinder! 

A.

[Paul W]

So, from what others have said, am I right in thinking that it’s the length of the arms that is a little restrictive, rather than the lateral spacing between them? In other words, the diameter of the wider tyre may catch the cross tube…..or is it both dimensions?

To lengthen the swing arms would be fairly straightforward. Cut the arms on a straight part, make up a stepped spacer plug with a suitable length, weld back together, file smooth, paint, fit a slightly longer chain.

I suppose the width of the assembly could be increased in a similar way. But yes, it would be vital to keep everything in line. My old BSA C15 had a very strange “stance” in that when the rear axle nut was tightened right  up, the wheel leaned over to the left. I think it was shoddy quality control at the factory because the hub plates weren’t parallel. But then the whole bike was made to a fairly shoddy standard (although as an inexperienced teenager I thought at the time it was the bees knees).

[stinkwheel]

Width is the main issue, You can set the wheel fairly far back on the fork-ends of the swingarm, may need fiddling with chain halflinks to make it work and have good chain tension.

The main issue is the chanstays taper in as you move towards the pivot and it's very tight by the time the tyre is in there. The higher the prifile, the tighter it gets at the widest point of the tyre so it gets you both ways. There is a boss for mounting the chainguard which hits first, i have a homemade lightweight alloy chainguard on my trials bike and it's fitted with a very low profile dome-head allen bolt. 4.00 x 19 trials-ish tyre in standard swingarm:


I have a proper 4.00 x 18 trials tyre to fit but it's a higher profile and works out almost exactly the same as the 19" in terms of width and rolling diameter. It will take some fillding to make it work.

[Adrian II]

So, from what others have said, am I right in thinking that it’s the length of the arms that is a little restrictive, rather than the lateral spacing between them?

The trouble is not so much that the length of the swinging arm is too short, but that the main tubes are too close together at the front. Look at where they're welded onto the front tube, Paul, they could easily have been welded closer to the outer ends to give more tyre clearance and still fit an Indian Bullet frame.

A.

[BruLan]

The trouble is not so much that the length of the swinging arm is too short, but that the main tubes are too close together at the front. Look at where they're welded onto the front tube, Paul, they could easily have been welded closer to the outer ends to give more tyre clearance and still fit an Indian Bullet frame.

A.

That looks like quite a simple fix on a standard Swing Arm. I think I will start looking for a used one and modify it.

[AzCal Retred]

You might be able to do the change without a jig. Weld on a square tube section outside & around the existing too-narrow round tube section, then cut away the round interior intruding part, then add shaped flat stock to cove the interior voids. Maybe a chance to add some chain rollers or sliders too.

[stinkwheel]

You might be able to do the change without a jig. Weld on a square tube section outside & around the existing too-narrow round tube section, then cut away the round interior intruding part, then add shaped flat stock to cove the interior voids. Maybe a chance to add some chain rollers or sliders too.

That is a bloody fantastic idea. When I get to grips with this new TIG welding/bronzing setup I got for Christmas, I might have a go at something along those lines on a damaged swingarm i have in the shed (warped sideplate and ovalled anti-torque bolt hole following a brake camming-on but nothing a hammer and some heat won't fix).

[BruLan]

That is a bloody fantastic idea. When I get to grips with this new TIG welding/bronzing setup I got for Christmas, I might have a go at something along those lines on a damaged swingarm i have in the shed (warped sideplate and ovalled anti-torque bolt hole following a brake camming-on but nothing a hammer and some heat won't fix).

What he said 

[BruLan]

Next question ...
Is a Bullet Sixty 5 Swing arm a standard Swing Arm.
Looking at the Hitchcock's Parts Book its the only part page missing (unless I am missing something)
I'm reluctant to Bastardise (Its an Engineering term) my standard stock one so will get a used one or an Indian import
Thanks and Best Bruce

[REpozer]

I decided to go back to the "traditional " style tyres . Most of my riding is on pavement/ tarmac , some gravel roads.
I couldn't find a " trials" pattern in 19" to my liking or trust.
I ordered from Brit Bike UK. Ill let you know my thoughts when they arrive. 

[stinkwheel]

Bullets handle pretty rough dirt roads very well even on normal road tyres, it's if it gets muddy that they struggle.

[Mr_84]

I decided to go back to the "traditional " style tyres . Most of my riding is on pavement/ tarmac , some gravel roads.
I couldn't find a " trials" pattern in 19" to my liking or trust.
I ordered from Brit Bike UK. Ill let you know my thoughts when they arrive. 

“Traditional” style tyres , are you talking Avon Speed Masters ?

Bullets handle pretty rough dirt roads very well even on normal road tyres, it's if it gets muddy that they struggle.

Couldn’t agree more , these Bullets plant them selves so well and seem to have a low centre of gravity considering their age of tech.
As a dirt biker I find the limiting factor is the suspension, I have better shocks and better fork internals , I’m sure I could break this bike if I showed it no respect in a off the tarmac situation.

Here’s a pic off tarmac , larger stone than normal gravel road , but funnily enough this pic must have been snapped on the smoothest part of this road , also note the Metzeler Block C fitted front and rear .

[Paul W]

Obviously a very smooth surface to keep that bottle of Jack Daniel’s upright!

[Adrian II]

Next question ...
Is a Bullet Sixty 5 Swing arm a standard Swing Arm.
Looking at the Hitchcock's Parts Book its the only part page missing (unless I am missing something)
I'm reluctant to Bastardise (Its an Engineering term) my standard stock one so will get a used one or an Indian import
Thanks and Best Bruce

Page 33 of the on-line parts book, it appears to be just the same as any other late pre-EFI Indian Bullet swinging arm, and why not?

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/464?qty=1&continue_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com%2Fpartsbook-pages%2F7288

A.

[stinkwheel]

As a dirt biker I find the limiting factor is the suspension, I have better shocks and better fork internals , I’m sure I could break this bike if I showed it no respect in a off the tarmac situation.

I think you'd be utterly amazed what you can actually ride over with stock bullet suspension. I've ridden mine over some outrageously gnarly terrain on stock forks. Of particular note were the "Big H" link road in Northumberland and Longcross lonning in Cumbria. Both of these are incredibly steep (over 1 in 3), heavily rutted tracks littered with large boulders and head-sized loose rocks. There's one bit of Longcross where you're riding on a surface made out of loosely tipped out used house bricks and builders rubble which is one of the smoother parts of the road.

What you do need is a good bash plate. I thought 1/4" alloy plate was overkill, but it wasn't.

[AzCal Retred]

@ Reply #27: Judging from the clothing, it looks like the boys were sorely in need of some anti-freeze...

@ Reply #26: The Bullet was rather "The best (off road machine) there was when it was all there was." back in the 1930's.  Modern dirt hardware has had 80+ years of refinement. Rather than worrying about breaking the bike, maybe dial it back enough that the bike doesn't get the upper hand...   After riding my Bullets on Forest Service roads I have a real appreciation for the actual skill levels demonstrated by the early days International Six Days Trials riders. That giant flywheel is a wonder at finding traction, but that extra 150 pounds of iron and early days geometry sure ain't your friend. But it's still a fun ride when used within its operating envelope, and it definitely makes you appreciate your modern hardware.

Stinkwheels skid plate idea is a really good one, there's a lot of exposed alloy down there. The older guys I rode desert with liked to use steel (repurposed flat-point shovel heads!) as it slid over rocks better than the lighter but "stickier" aluminum. A bit of extra weight down low is not a big concern on these machines.

[REpozer]

“Traditional” style tyres , are you talking Avon Speed Masters ?

I will be receiving something that looks like the original Speed Masters. Hopefully they will perform as good or better.

[stinkwheel]

The totally standard Mk2 safety mileage on the rear and speedmaster on the front is absolutely fine. There is more grip than ground clearance, escpcially with the mainstand fitted. I have roadriders on my 612 because it is somewhat pokier and encourages a more spirited style of riding but I put many, many miles on the more traditional tyres without any worries.

Funny you mention the "stickiness" of the alloy bashplate, it is a real thing and causes some problems, it's something I'm also familiar with in canoes. Grummans are made of alloy and they really do tend to stick to rocks. At some point, I am going to glue one of those flexible nylon chopping boards to the bashplate to help combat that.

[Paul W]

The bash plate I bought is painted steel. Unfortunately it took a lot of bashing to make it fit because it fouled against the drain plug. I had to cut a hole in it…..which exposed the drain plug. It now lives on my workbench.

[REpozer]

I received a set of tyres . " Classic  Genuine 6 PR" made by Servis Tyres , from Pakistan. They were factory wrapped well, look good , fresh smell of rubber. I think they will grip well. I hand mounted them with motorcycle tyre levers. Now I have to wait for winter roads to clear.