Author Topic: Installing a carb  (Read 2232 times)

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Taurim

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Reply #30 on: August 03, 2022, 09:31:06 am
Ooops!  :o  I hope your brush with the law was at least in something impressively sporty.

The Gendarmerie liked my blue Subaru BRZ so much they took a picture  ::)

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Does a driving ban also hike your insurance premiums (payments) up big-time?  It does here.

I forgot about that and just checked : Yes  :'(


Adrian II

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Reply #31 on: August 03, 2022, 09:40:58 pm
Can't drive? At lest while you have (temporarily) had to hang up your bike and car keys, at least they haven't imposed a DRINKING ban.

In your position I would be sorely tempted to use the money I would have been saving (by not buying petrol/gasoline) for buying vintage Calvados, instead of saving for the insurance hike!  ;D  In moderation of course...

A.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 09:43:46 pm by Adrian II »
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Taurim

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Reply #32 on: August 04, 2022, 11:55:29 pm
I'm not desperate enough to drink a lot of Calvados ;D


StreetKleaver

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Reply #33 on: August 05, 2022, 12:56:16 am
Speaking of 02 sensors.

The heater circuit on the 02 sensors on UCE engines, so they stay powered the whole time during operation or switch on and off.

I know some car 02 sensors with heaters only turn on during idling.
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axman88

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Reply #34 on: August 05, 2022, 05:03:50 pm
The heater circuit on the 02 sensors on UCE engines, so they stay powered the whole time during operation or switch on and off.
Would you know how much power the O2 heater draws?


StreetKleaver

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Reply #35 on: August 05, 2022, 10:33:25 pm
Would you know how much power the O2 heater draws?

Yes and if it stays on during engine operation?

My 2014 GT535 doesn't run one with the Power Commander V.

Reason being I want to retrofit it to my GT535 heated 02 Sensor to use with my AFR gauge setup for tuning carburetors. I've tested it with my AFR gauge and it works. I just don't know how much power the heater draws.
I'm guessing it's 12 volts because the readings on the gauge between the non Heated and Heated 02 sensor are similar but more consistent with the Heated 02 sensor.

I'm presuming the Non heated 02 sensor AFR gauge readings vary with the temperature of the header heating it up.
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gizzo

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Reply #36 on: August 05, 2022, 11:28:04 pm
Speaking of 02 sensors.

The heater circuit on the 02 sensors on UCE engines, so they stay powered the whole time during operation or switch on and off.

I know some car 02 sensors with heaters only turn on during idling.
I don't know, but I have a feeling that it stays heated all the time. Only because the battery light on the dash comes on less at traffic lights since the PC-V than it did with the stock system. It still comes on, but takes longer.

So, not really an answer. Just idle (😒) chitchat.
simon from south Australia
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #37 on: August 06, 2022, 03:52:13 am
I don't know, but I have a feeling that it stays heated all the time. Only because the battery light on the dash comes on less at traffic lights since the PC-V than it did with the stock system. It still comes on, but takes longer.

So, not really an answer. Just idle (😒) chitchat.

So I just ran a test on my GT. Just made a simple extension between the 02 sensor eliminator resistor plug and the socket for the 02 sensor on the loom with the multimeter clipped on the 2 white (heater) wires.
Fired it up and got it well over operating temp. Idling and revving it up.
The heater draws 12 volts the whole time and never switches off. Increases voltage with engine speed so its straight off the rec/reg.

From running my Bullet with a non heated 02 sensor while tuning the carburetor the results were varying AFR values at low loads and engine speeds. At a constant 100km/h the 02 sensor would read a consistent reading but generally street riding it would read a richer display. I assume that the air-cooled engine and header temps have a more variance of temperature change on the sensor compared to a newer water-cooled injected engine.

So the 02 sensor would stay on/heated for a consistent reading on the UCE engines.

I've wired it into my AFR tuning gauge setup with a manual 02 sensor heater and gauge backlight on/off toggle switch. So when it's backlit the 02 sensor heater is on.
Going to see if I can get even more consistent readings with my gauge tuning my Bullet.

That's all my question was about. Haha
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #38 on: August 06, 2022, 07:07:11 pm
Unless you have a low current DC clamp on, you'll need to get in series with this circuit to measure current draw. The bullet plug (if any...) for the heater circuit is a good place to do this, or else you'll need to cut a wire and put your DC VOM milliammeter in series there.
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


axman88

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Reply #39 on: August 06, 2022, 08:24:43 pm
Unless you have a low current DC clamp on, you'll need to get in series with this circuit to measure current draw.
I guess if you knew the resistance of the element, you could estimate based on the voltage drop.  I'm guessing it's something like 10 or 20 watts, which is a pretty small soldering iron, but a good amount of 14V current.  What a waste to run the heater after the engine is in closed loop!   There should be plenty of heat coming from the exhaust.

Most of the cheapo clamp meters are AC only, although they try to hide this in the sales literature by supporting DC amperage measurements through the leads, so be careful.  To get DC amp readings in a clamp, you need a Hall Effect sensor in the clamp.  I bought, and like my UNI-T 210D.  https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut210-series/#Specifications
This meter does all the usual stuff, plus DC clamp amps up to 200, for testing starters, plus capacitance, frequency and temperature readings via a supplied type J thermocouple.  Best of all, it fits in the palm of my hand, and runs off two AA cells.  9V batteries in gadgets always seem to be dead when it's time to use the gadget, but you can always find some AAs around the house.    UNI-Trend is a chinese company, but they have a long track record in test equipment, stay in their lane, value their reputation, and produce good quality, robust products, in my opinion.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #40 on: August 10, 2022, 12:47:03 am
"DC clamp amps up to 200"

A problem is range. If a DC clamp on can measure 200 amps, it's tough to scale it to work at milliamps DC, which is likely the range needed. Usually there is a connector you can get in series with.
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Taurim

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Reply #41 on: August 10, 2022, 09:48:30 am
From this document : https://www.ecotrons.com/files/ECOTRONS%20Narrow%20Band%20O2%20Sensor%20technical%20spec.pdf

Heater power on this generic narrowband O2 sensor is 7W. So most probably around 0.5A


StreetKleaver

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Reply #42 on: August 10, 2022, 11:51:56 am
I ended up wiring up a simple additional temporary loom to the battery terminals to a on/off toggle switch zip-tied to the handlebars.

The switch was wired to the gauge backlight and 02 sensor Heater. So when its backlit, the heater is on.

I got consistent AFR readings compared to the non heater 02 sensor.

My Bullet with the TM32 would read between 12.4 and 12.5 at wide open throttle with its chosen tuned main jet.

It was a richer 12.4 at slower speeds. Which is a good thing since there is less airflow on the engine.

A good experiment! Worked well.
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viczena

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Reply #43 on: August 10, 2022, 12:47:33 pm
 AFR 12,4? You are kidding me? That is just waste of fuel without any gain.
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #44 on: August 10, 2022, 09:09:56 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air%E2%80%93fuel_ratio#:~:text=The%20air%2Dfuel%20ratio%20of,the%20maximum%20fuel%20economy%20ratio.
"The air-fuel ratio of 12:1 is considered as the maximum power output ratio, whereas the air-fuel ratio of 16:1 is considered as the maximum fuel economy ratio."

My old Honda Insight has a 17:1 AFR thing it does when condition permit, getting stupid-high MPG numbers at 60 MPH on the freeway, between 60 - 80 MPG. It's a tiny, slippery car, and when doing the extreme lean thing it's just hanging onto whatever speed it has. Bump the throttle and it reverts to "power" mode. It's a weird little car.

Some combustion chamber shapes can benefit from a "too rich" mixture. My drag race friends tell me that they see some useful cooling effect from excess vaporized fuel. Of course they are running 2,000 HP two-valve big blocks at +14:1 C.R.s, so they likely need all the help they can get.

AFR is just one piece of the equation to getting down the road.
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.