[Blaqkfox]

Ok, so I ordered it, the Acewell speedometer. And boy what a nightmare it was to get fitted and set up... but boy is it cool!

First of all, the unit looks amazing.



My phones being stupid and not letting me add photos I want to upload to imgur to post here, but they send you two big fold out pieces of paper with very convoluted instruction. I actually resorted to going onto Acewells website to figure out the set up process. And theres problems with the instructions so im glad im making a post about this install.

Its pretty straight forward but there was a couple of things that will trip you up...

For example, the bracket. The factory mounting bracket for my speedometer did not have two holes in it already (I had the kind with one big hole in the center and one large nut. "Not to fear!" I think, because the box has a punch out for a nice and easy template to drill the holes yourself! How handy! I thought! what a great product and ingenuity! WRONG.

I drilled my holes with the template...



But the studs on the unit were wider I quickly found...



SMH. who designed this...

Not a huge deal, I measure and mark and dill the holes in the correct positions, luckily it was far enough off the holes didn't overlap. so thats good.

Next I read the instructions to figure out which wiring adapters to use- they send you like 4 different harnesses, for EFI, non-EFI, the 350 and the 500.

Plug those in and left with this...



Plugged the one connector into the factory speedo connector and scratched my head realizing there weren't as many pins on the new cluster as there was the main harness side, but figured it was just differences in lighting or something for the clusters- hopefully thats all it is...



This is where I started scratching my head, because the written instructions and pictures/diagrams provided (if you can call it a diagram) are just shit. pardon my French.

The key switch interception took a second to figure out, but plug one end into the key switch side, the other end into the harness side to loop in the cluster, easy.



The RPM harness was more confusing. I started to question if I had bought a useless product that would only function as a speedo and nothing more really and got ready to pack it up and return it. But then I sat and thought- "well it has to pull off the spark, thats the only way they would've designed this..." So I go digging for the coil pack, find it under the tank, so had to take the fuel tank off and then it plugged in!





So far, not too bad if you just ignore the confusing wordy instructions and just think for yourself, its pretty straight forward to be honest. BUT this is where things got really confusing for me...


Setting up the unit once installed-

The instructions are very wordy here, overly convoluted imo. Acewell has some video on their website for this process, but it is also lacking imo.

First you turn the bike on (took me too long to figure this out) and hold both buttons down for 2 seconds to access the set up menu. Set hours, set backlight brightness, all very easy there.

You then have to set MAX RPMs- I set mine at 5000 rpms because I kept seeing 5000 or 5300 or 5400 rpms is supposed to be the max for this engine, I never got a solid answer from the google on that, but went with the lowest number to play it safe. What is the Max rpms on these engines anyways? everyone had a different answer it seems...

This is now where it gets complicated and I still don't know if I set it up right... guess ill find out tomorrow when I actually ride the bike...

It ask you to set how many revolutions per pulses to set the RPMs. In my mind it would want 4 revolutions per 1 pulse of the spark plug to determine that. But that is not an available setting. you can only do:

1R:1P
2R:1P
3R:1P

OR

1R:2P
1R:4P

My only guess is that 3R:1P is the correct setting and theyre just not counting the power stroke as a revolution. Which is odd to me, but thats the only way I can think this works.

EDIT: I found out these AVL engines do use wasted spark so it needed to be set at 1R:1P !

It only gets more complicated from here...

Next you have to set if its coming from a HALL or REED sensor. I assume these are HALL sensor style setup, to be completely honest ive never even heard of reed. I come from the EFI automotive world where its always a HALL sensor so I set it for HALL. hopefully thats correct.

Then it ask you for the circumference of the "the wheel the magnet is connected to" when I heard that in their video I thought "oh god I have to know the circumference of the crank pulley?!" but no, he goes on to say "or the outer circumference of the tire" so I go "Ah! for the speedo here now!" But this is also complicated. You get 4 digits (xxxx) to set that measurement. only problem is, I have no idea what unit of measurement this is in... millimeters I assume? well im in the states and we don't do that here, so I google and a 19in wheel is 486.6 iirc. I just realized I didn't factor in the tire so im going to have to go change my settings now, but I went with 486 since I can't put a decimal point in the measurement.

Now it gets even trickier. The kit comes with a cable for the speedo that only has an electrical plug in on the gauge cluster side, so it now want to know how many pulses of the speed sensor per 1 revolution of the front wheel of the bike. I honestly have no clue here. I put it at the default setting of 1. How many pulses do these put to 1 revolution of the wheel?

The rest is pretty straight forward- do you want a trip meter or hour meter for the maintenance reminder, what voltages do you want for the battery warning light to come on at (which was a little confusing- theres a battery on, off, and running settings to set for this, and some don't go below 12.5v which seemed odd to me). Then set the odometer which also confused me because I wasn't sure if they used a decimal here for 10ths of a mile, but I didn't figure so the way the guy talked in the video, and you only get one shot to do this and it locks it in and can't be changed again. So I did it without the 10ths of a mile since there was no decimal point and the way the guy made it sound in the video.

Also it did ask at one point "re350" or "re500" and there was nothing in the video or written instructions about this... I assume it was asking if this was a royal enfield 350 or 500 since this unit is comparable with both models, so I selected the re500.

So the unit was very confusing to set up, im still not sure if I did it all correctly, luckily you can go in and change anything except the odometer once its set. So ill find out tomorrow if I did this all correctly I suppose.

There was also a random resistor in the packaging with some heat shrink that I assume they want you to solder somewhere if applicable but theres nothing in any source of information about it. So I have no idea why they provided that or where they expect me to know to put it. So for now ive left it out.

The unit does a sweep when turned on and displays a big "0" for MPH and you can use the needle to output RPM or MPH/KMP. or vise versa. and it has a host of other wonderful settings. I do believe its smarter than I am, but I found it complicated to set up, but happy with it. This whole process took me a solid 3 hours from unboxing to completion.. and I still need to runout there and change the wheel size setting and R:P setting and hope it works lol

[AzCal Retred]

Nice pics & write up! These electro-whizzie devices always take some fiddling. Eventually you'll puzzle out what they thought were trying to say after you play with it long enough and have developed a frame of reference.

This looks like a real nice piece. The trip-resettable odometer function alone is a real upgrade, let alone having a speedo that is accurate. You'd be out at least as much or more for a single-function Smith's unit and adapted speedo cable, and the electronic unit will likely be more accurate.

Keep beating on it, eventually it'll become clear. Having both the website and the written instructions is a plus.

[tooseevee]

Ok, so I ordered it, the Acewell speedometer. And boy what a nightmare it was to get fitted and set up... but boy is it cool!

It ask you to set how many revolutions per pulses to set the RPMs. In my mind it would want 4 revolutions per 1 pulse of the spark plug to determine that. But that is not an available setting. you can only do:


My only guess is that 3R:1P is the correct setting and they're just not counting the power stroke as a revolution. Which is odd to me, but thats the only way I can think this works.

EDIT: I found out these AVL engines do use wasted spark so it needed to be set at 1R:1P !
 You get 4 digits (xxxx) to set that measurement. only problem is, I have no idea what unit of measurement this is in... millimeters I assume? well im in the states and we don't do that here, so I google and a 19in wheel is 486.6 iirc. I just realized I didn't factor in the tire so im going to have to go change my settings now, but I went with 486 since I can't put a decimal point in the measurement.

           So I'm glad you figured out the difference between "strokes" (intake, compression, power & exhaust) and "revolutions" of the crankshaft. The plug is fired EVery revolution of the Crankshaft. And this is by no means exclusive to RE AVL engines.

          Another hint to determine your TIRE circumference:

          Roll the bike until the valve stem is at the exact bottom. Put a chalk mark directly below that valve stem (BDC).

          Roll the bike for 3 full revolutions of the tire until the valve stem is again at BDC. Make another chalk mark.

          Measure this distance with your tape measure and divide by 3. This is the number you enter into the OS for Tire Circumference.

          If you measure in Inches & want MMs, just Google it.

          And it doesn't matter where you mount the speed indicator trigger (near the hub or farther toward the rim), it will still only trigger ONCE per revolution of the tire & That's what gives you your speed indicator signal.

        (It's the same for the spark ignition trigger on the alternator rotor. It triggers a spark EVery revolution of the crankshaft).     

[Blaqkfox]

          And it doesn't matter where you mount the speed indicator trigger (near the hub or farther toward the rim), it will still only trigger ONCE per revolution of the tire & That's what gives you your speed indicator signal.

        (It's the same for the spark ignition trigger on the alternator rotor. It triggers a spark EVery revolution of the crankshaft).   

So this is really neat, but it doesnt use the magnet trigger like every other digital speedo for a bike does! Instead it has some magic wire they've created. Its got a regular connector for the factory speed gear attached to the wheel, but then it turns into just a wire with a two pin connector that plugs into the gauge! Its really weird but I love the way they did that! like its got the screw on with the square cable insert at the wheel hub, but then somehow is just a wire at the other end 

the whole revolutions vs strokes thing still confuses me. but hey it works now lol

thats great info for the circumference issue, thats the last thing im dealing with, when I left this morning it said I was doing 30mph when I felt like I was doing 60mph. so I doubled the number, but then riding with my friends this morning I asked what speed they were at, they said about 55mph but I was reading 68mph lol. So ive been messing with it literally all day. I think ive got it within about 5mph now, but ill do this instead so I can have it be accurate.

[Blaqkfox]

So today I went for a long 400 mile ride into the next state over with a bunch of friends so I had plenty of time to play with the unit.

here's the 8 of us at the bakery we stopped to eat breakfast at. (one guy was in a car)



here's the unit off



when turned on it does a calibration sweep



and on with the bike off (ignore my battery voltage, I had my regulator rectifier take a shit on me today. it was cranking out like 14.9-16.7 volts while we were riding through the mountains)



my only complaint other than its not easy to set up is the little led screen is a little difficult to read from an angle. Im a pretty average height guy, like 5'9" or whatever probably, and when the sun is out and bright I found I had to lean over a little to get a clear view of what the display was showing. I may rotate the angled rubber gasket around 180 degrees if I can so the gauge will be a bit more tilted my way. This might require messing with the bracket some too though, im not sure. granted I do still have the scratch protective film over the gauge cluster so removing that might help some lol



some more photos of our journey today:















I will also be making a YouTube video today showing the gauge in action that ill post the link to here shortly...

[tooseevee]

So this is really neat, but it doesnt use the magnet trigger like every other digital speedo for a bike does! Instead it has some magic wire they've created. Its got a regular connector for the factory speed gear attached to the wheel, but then it turns into just a wire with a two pin connector that plugs into the gauge! Its really weird but I love the way they did that! like its got the screw on with the square cable insert at the wheel hub, but then somehow is just a wire at the other end 

the whole revolutions vs strokes thing still confuses me. but hey it works now lol

thats great info for the circumference issue, thats the last thing im dealing with, when I left this morning it said I was doing 30mph when I felt like I was doing 60mph. so I doubled the number, but then riding with my friends this morning I asked what speed they were at, they said about 55mph but I was reading 68mph lol. So ive been messing with it literally all day. I think ive got it within about 5mph now, but ill do this instead so I can have it be accurate.

       Pretty soon, it seems, we won't even need wires any more for ANYthing.

       There are a million YooToob videos out there (some animated) illustrating that whole revolutions vs. strokes thing. You Reely should get it clear in your head if you're gonna be a conversant RE AVL (or any other) owner/maintainer/tweaker 

       ...and you're never going to be happy until you enter a good number for tire circumference.

        I put one of those magic little speedos on the last harley I built (built in '01 & '02, rode until 2016) because the '77 speedo lost its mind at 60 & I'm sure it was the speedo not the cable. It was VERY accurate (with the correct number entered) 

[Paul W]

I have a similar Smiths speedo on my trials car, although it doesn’t include a rev counter.

What you really need to know is the number of actual wheel revolutions per mile. This is more accurate than trying to measure the wheel circumference because the “rolling radius” differs from the measured radius with weight on the vehicle, due to tyre sidewall flex. To simplify the calculation, mark the tyre where it contacts the road and push the bike ten wheel revolutions. Then measure the distance it’s covered in feet and divide by 10. That will give the distance in feet. Divide 5280 by that figure to get wheel revs per mile.

A reed switch consists of two very small electrical contacts that are closed when a magnet passes them and it doesn’t need an external power supply because it is just a switch. They have just two wires.

A Hall sensor does need an external power supply and it will have three wires. Positive, negative and signal.

[Blaqkfox]

Hey thanks for the info guys! I'm not super concerned with max accuracy of the speedometer, if its 1-2mph off I can live with that lol 5-10 not so much.

I did go out in the garage and just gave it a role once, not the most accurate, but more accurate than where im at. my driveway is all gravel so I can't get very exact with that, the shop floor is concrete so its a good place to do it but I could only roll the bike one tire revolution. Ill probably take it out to a big parking lot somewhere and give it a good 3 revolutions, I don't feel the need to go beyond that really, but obviously the further I go the more accurate it would be. im just not that concerned with pinpoint accuracy on this.

my YouTube video about it is uploading, if you have that newfangled TikTok I have a video of it here as well:

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTdKgJcMA/?k=1


Ok so on the reed vs hall switch- I understand how it works now, but which does this royal use? a hall switch I imagine? and why do you think it matters for these settings? shouldn't the pickup be the same either way?

[Blaqkfox]

Here the gauge cluster in action.

Feel free to skip towards the end it’s a long video.

https://youtu.be/Wqt5MrIIC_8

[tooseevee]

What you really need to know is the number of actual wheel revolutions per mile. This is more accurate than trying to measure the wheel circumference because the “rolling radius” differs from the measured radius with weight on the vehicle, due to tyre sidewall flex. To simplify the calculation, mark the tyre where it contacts the road and push the bike ten wheel revolutions. Then measure the distance it’s covered in feet and divide by 10. That will give the distance in feet. Divide 5280 by that figure to get wheel revs per mile.

        As far as I know there is no way to enter the number of wheel revolutions per mile. These little devices that I was talking about want to know the tire circumference in either inches or millimeters.

[Paul W]

In which case, they've already done the calculation in the software. Easier than with my speedo and my Brantz Rally meter, which are tricky to set up. 

[Adrian II]

        As far as I know there is no way to enter the number of wheel revolutions per mile. These little devices that I was talking about want to know the tire circumference in either inches or millimeters.

The tire maunfacturer's web site will list these in the specs, or at least the diameter. Circumference = 2πr = πd

https://byjus.com/circumference-formula/

Try this with some Avons, they will list the diameters.

http://www.avonmotorcycle.co.uk/

[Blaqkfox]

The tire maunfacturer's web site will list these in the specs, or at least the diameter. Circumference = 2πr = πd

https://byjus.com/circumference-formula/

Try this with some Avons, they will list the diameters.

http://www.avonmotorcycle.co.uk/

Yeah I think Paul was just saying to do the same thing 2cv was saying to do, just calculated at a longer distance. But same-same.

That’s cool I’ll see if my Dunlop k70 tires have it listed. Although Tim sure there’s some slight discrepancies between their listing and reality, probably negligible, but yeah

[Blaqkfox]

So I also just stumbled across this old thread:

https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=30458.0;all#lastPost

Apparently these bikes charge at 16v?! Why lol

Is this still true of the AVL? I’m guessing so.

I would’ve never noticed without this new gauge. Cuz at idle it’s usually like 13.5-14v which is normal, but when riding at 3-4K rpms the other day the battery warning light kept coming on, so I toggled over to see the output- and 15v… 15.5v… climbing as I rev all the way up to 16.7v sometimes.

These bikes just get weirder and weirder man.

So I guess I need to do something about that 12v battery I’m running before it overcharges and whatnot. Hasn’t been an issue so far, still reading 10-11v with key in the on position- so headlight and other lights on and whatnot. Still, how odd

[tooseevee]

Yeah I think Paul was just saying to do the same thing 2cv was saying to do, just calculated at a longer distance. But same-same.

         'Fraid not all same-same, Grasshoppah.

         Tire Revolutions per Mile is not the same as Number of Inches on the ground per Tire Revolution.

     

[Blaqkfox]

         'Fraid not all same-same, Grasshoppah.

         Tire Revolutions per Mile is not the same as Number of Inches on the ground per Tire Revolution.

   

How so? You say do 3 revolutions and divide by 3, he says do 10 and divide by 10?

[tooseevee]

How so? You say do 3 revolutions and divide by 3, he says do 10 and divide by 10?

    You've compared the wrong thing. I have zero problem with using ANY number of tire revs. As long as you divide by the right number you'll get the same answer: the circumference of the tire.

 My comment was NOT about comparing 3 tire revolutions to 10 tire revolutions. Yes. THAT would be the same & would, of course, give you a number (in inches or MMs) that can then be entered into the device.

    What I said ( you must not have read it) was INCHES on the ground per tire revolution is not the same as the  NUMBER of tire revolutions per mile. AFAIK you can't enter revolutions per mile into these devices.

      Anyway. Hang in there. You seem to be doing a fine job straightening this AVL out & making it behave 

[Paul W]

My apology for causing controversy. As I subsequently said, the software obviously does does the necessary final calculation so you don’t have to work out the revolutions per mile yourself. 

[tooseevee]

My apology for causing controversy. As I subsequently said, the software obviously does does the necessary final calculation so you don’t have to work out the revolutions per mile yourself. 

      You didn't cause any controversy at all. He thought I was disputing your 10 revs, is all. and I was not.

      My point was that inches per rev & revs per mile are apples & grapefruit mathematically & that you can't enter revs per mile into the OS. He conflated that with the 3 vs. 10 revolutions idea.

       Enough explaining & airy theories  My old head hurts. How many convolutions per thread does it take to get back to where you started?  and what do you divide by 
 

     

[Blaqkfox]

hmm still having issues. so I rolled it forward 3x, measured, divided by 3 and converted to millimeters and got a figure of 2006.6 so I plugged 2007 into the unit. Now my speed is reading way higher than it actually is. Id guesstimate about double or more what my actual speed is.

The only thing I can think is either this figure is not in millimeters or the setting for pulses per rotation of the wheels.

ive merely left pulses set to 1. I don't fully understand how they want me to determine this. The factory setup obviously has no pulses because its just a cable. And the available settings are 3 digits long. so you can have quite the number of pulses to a single wheel rotation. I don't understand why you'd have so many digits for this setting, this unit is only for the royal enfield 350 and 500 series. perhaps just some software they simply copy and paste onto the units... anyways, the instructions say nothing about this nor do Acewell's videos on their website explain it at all, so the only thing I can figure to do is try it at 2 pulses per wheel rotation (since im reading double the actual speed) but I would think that would go the opposite direction I want things to go, and theres no lie 0.5 setting so I can't go that way. Or I can tear the headlight back off and unplug it, get the bike up in the air, and spin the wheel around and measure with a multimeter to see if I can see it pulse and count the number of pulses per rotation.

But assuming its 1 pulse per wheel rotation then that would mean my circumference measurement ive entered is incorrect. I know I measured correctly, but perhaps I didn't convert correctly? as in maybe they want cm instead of mm? but then why have 4 digits for this entry??? I might just email the company and ask...

[AzCal Retred]

Well, there is the ham-fisted method of finding a County radar speed display and calibrating to that. Change the conversion figure until your speedo agrees with the official calibrated display as you roll thru the test area. As long as it's close you are good. Once you have the number that works for your set up, you can work the numbers backwards and see if anything makes sense. Likely you can guesstimate an initial value just to see which way it needs to go, run it up to 30 or so estimated in 3rd or 4th and see what has to happen to get the display to read 30.

[tooseevee]

hmm still having issues. so I rolled it forward 3x, measured, divided by 3 and converted to millimeters and got a figure of 2006.6 so I plugged 2007 into the unit. Now my speed is reading way higher than it actually is. Id guesstimate about double or more what my actual speed is.

The only thing I can think is either this figure is not in millimeters or the setting for pulses per rotation of the wheels.

ive merely left pulses set to 1. I don't fully understand how they want me to determine this. The factory setup obviously has no pulses because its just a cable. And the available settings are 3 digits long. so you can have quite the number of pulses to a single wheel rotation. I don't understand why you'd have so many digits for this setting, this unit is only for the royal enfield 350 and 500 series. perhaps just some software they simply copy and paste onto the units... anyways, the instructions say nothing about this nor do Acewell's videos on their website explain it at all, so the only thing I can figure to do is try it at 2 pulses per wheel rotation (since im reading double the actual speed) but I would think that would go the opposite direction I want things to go, and theres no lie 0.5 setting so I can't go that way. Or I can tear the headlight back off and unplug it, get the bike up in the air, and spin the wheel around and measure with a multimeter to see if I can see it pulse and count the number of pulses per rotation.

But assuming its 1 pulse per wheel rotation then that would mean my circumference measurement ive entered is incorrect. I know I measured correctly, but perhaps I didn't convert correctly? as in maybe they want cm instead of mm? but then why have 4 digits for this entry??? I might just email the company and ask...

    I went to the instruction sheet for your unit (CA080-100) & found that it plainly states that you must count the NUMBER of revolutions of your ORIGINAL speedometer cable per ONE tire revolution.

    This is the number you enter for number of pulses per tire revolution.

    Yes, the number you enter for tire circumference IS a 4 digit number in MILLIMETERS.

    You get that number with your 3 tire revs & a chalk mark (or tape on the ground or whatever). Divide that number by 3. Enter THAT  number (in MM). Yes. It will be a 4 digit number.

      If you're measuring circumference in inches just ask Google what that number of inches is in MM.

      OR as the instruction sheet says: Tire Diameter (in INCHES) x 25.4 x 3.1416 = wheel circumference in INCHES.

[Adrian II]

The Indian Bullet speedo drive gearboxes (at least pre-EFI) are all 2:1, being copies of the original Bullet's Smiths gearbox.

The following may be of some use.

With a 3.25" x 19" Avon Speedmaster Mk2

Diameter = 25.9" x pi (3.142 or 22/7)

Circumference = 25.9" x 3.142 = 81.3778"

1 mile = 63360"

Therefore if we divide the number of inches in a mile by the circumference we get 778.59 revolutions per mile.

With a 2:1 speedo drive the drive cable (or anything else attached to the drive gearbox) will turn very slightly more than 1557 times over the course of 1 mile.

You will see similar calibration figures on the dials of old Lucas chronometric speedometers, with variation for wheel/tire size and the ratio of the speedo gearbox drive fitted. Smiths also supplied 21:10, 19:10 and 15:12 or 1.25:1 ratio drive gearboxes, unlikely to appear on an Indian Bullet, but you never know.

1 mile in millimetres = 63360 x 25.4 = 1,609,344mm

Tire circumference in mm = 658 x 3.142 = 2067.436mm

If you have an AM26 3.25" x 19" the diameter is larger than the Speedmaster Mk2 for some reason. 26.1" or 664mm.

A.

[tooseevee]

      OR as the instruction sheet says: Tire Diameter (in INCHES) x 25.4 x 3.1416 = wheel circumference in INCHES.

     
Oh good god! Huge typo (mistake).

That sentence in my Post #22 should not have even been put there.

Sorry. Did not mean to add to your problem, Blacqfox. Just  ignore that sentence. 

If I could just Delete it, I would.

 

[richard211]

When using the hall effect speed sensor and the magnet, the number of pulses per revolution is the number of magnets fitted to the wheel. One magnet will produce 1 pulse per rotation of the wheel. If you use 2 magnets on the wheel you will get 2 pulses per revolution and so on. Total number of magnets on the wheel is equal to total number of pulses per revolution.

 Coming to the circumference of the tyre, I would use a piece of string and tape one end on the middle of the tyre, then roll the tyre until the piece of string winds around the circumference of the wheel once. Mark  the point where the string meets / overlaps the start point. Cut the string and then measure it against a tape measure.

 The instruction manual has provided some values for different tyre sizes, note that the circumference number is based on the Outside Diameter of the wheel.

 I maybe wrong but i think the circumference on the 3.25 19 tyre is around 2033mm. You could use a GPS app on your phone to check the accuracy of the speedometer
 

[tooseevee]

When using the hall effect speed sensor and the magnet, the number of pulses per revolution is the number of magnets fitted to the wheel. One magnet will produce 1 pulse per rotation of the wheel. If you use 2 magnets on the wheel you will get 2 pulses per revolution and so on. Total number of magnets on the wheel is equal to total number of pulses per revolution.

        His Acewell device does not use a Hall effect magnet mounted on the wheel. It has a device that screws into the stock speedo unit where the speedo cable plugs in which converts rotation into a signal to the device.

        Adrian's post says the cable turns twice per wheel rev so Blacqfox should enter 2:1 or 1:2. I forget which way it is in the instruction sheet, but it's all there.

[richard211]

        His Acewell device does not use a Hall effect magnet mounted on the wheel. It has a device that screws into the stock speedo unit where the speedo cable plugs in which converts rotation into a signal to the device.

        Adrian's post says the cable turns twice per wheel rev so Blacqfox should enter 2:1 or 1:2. I forget which way it is in the instruction sheet, but it's all there.

If the cable turns twice per revolution of the wheel then divide the circumference by 2.

 So a good base line to start is set the speed sensor pulse to 1 and circumference at 1016.

[tooseevee]

If the cable turns twice per revolution of the wheel then divide the circumference by 2.

 So a good base line to start is set the speed sensor pulse to 1 and circumference at 1016.

         No. He has TWO settings to enter.

      (1)    He has to enter the circumference of his TIRE in
Mmillimeters.

       (2)    He has to enter the RATIO of the sender which is #5 under subject heading  Wheel Circumference Table on the instruction sheet. In his case it is 2:1.

       Blackfox knows this because he mentions it in his Post #20.

[richard211]

I was reading the manual and it does say to divide the circumference by the number of rotations of the cable per rotation of the wheel. So I suggested dividing the circumference 2033 by 2 it ends up being 1016.5

 If the pulse setting is set to 2 then the circumference can be set as 2033.

 Blacqfox says in Post# 19 he tried 2007 as the circumference and it felt like it was double the speed reading. 

[Adrian II]

I maybe wrong but i think the circumference on the 3.25 19 tyre is around 2033mm. You could use a GPS app on your phone to check the accuracy of the speedometer

From the Avon web site the 3.25 x 19" ribbed Speedmaster has a 2067mm circumference based on their stated diameter for this tire.

The AM26 works out at 2086mm.

A.

[Blaqkfox]

OK my fault for not reading the instructions fully there, I was in such a rush to get that installed before I went to the mountains with my friends.

anyways I messed with it today. I popped the old speedo cable in and rolled the bike forward one rotation of the front wheel. the speedo cable turned almost two times. so I guess its supposed to be set to two pulses. It wasn't quite two full rotations but then again I only moved the bike for one rotation because im a bit injured at the moment so I didn't drag it out of my shop.

which would make sense if im reading double like I was, so it should be pretty spot on now.

I have not attempted to test ride the bike and check yet. Unfortunately ive come down with costochondritis (hopefully thats all it is) assumedly from my long 6 hour ride through the mountains. So my chest has been killing me and im supposed to avoid strenuous activities such as getting the motorcycle out of the shop and riding it. Hopefully I can get back in the saddle soon, its finally not 100F out here anymore.

I do have the Circumfrence set to 2007. I am no longer on the Avon tires, I am on the dunlop K70 tires. factory sizes though. but anyways yeah I got 2006.6 when I measured (granted this was only one wheel rotation and unladen). But I should be awful close now. Cant wait to hop on the bike and see.

EDIT: my bad I just saw there was a lot of new replies in this thread since I last read it. Wish id seen Adrians post saying its 2:1 before I went to all the trouble of putting the old cable back on ha. I do like that mathematical approach Adrian laid out. what's interesting to me is the tire measurement for circumference y'all are suggesting- it would seem the Avons must have a taller sidewall or something? or maybe its the change from tire flex with the weight of the bike actually on it/tire pressure im running (I am running factory tire pressure). at any rate perhaps reality is slightly different than than the mathematical approach due to other variables like that.

[Adrian II]

I'm guessing the K70 and Avon will be close enough in diameter. When your strength is back, you could just get a tape measure, put the bike on it center stand and (with assistance if available) simply measure the circumference. Or am I oversimplifying?

A.

[viczena]

I also replaced the speedometer with the Acewell product, and it was quite easy to do. But I used the CA80-160RE, as I needed a km/h device. I had to use 2R1P.

https://www.g-homeserver.com/forum/royal-enfield-500-trials/388-tachometer

[Paul W]

The circumference of the inflated tyre tends to be slightly “longer” than twice its rolling radius. The difference is how the tyre compresses against the road due to the bike’s weight.

The latter is what the wheel revolves around on the road, so ideally that should be used for setting up the speedo. Measuring the distance run on the road takes the rolling radius into account if you want best accuracy.

[tooseevee]

The latter is what the wheel revolves around on the road, so ideally that should be used for setting up the speedo. Measuring the distance run on the road takes the rolling radius into account if you want best accuracy.

        That's why I've always suggested3 turns of the air valve with marks on the ground. It's probably a hair more accurate than just 1 turn & it doesn't take any longer. Make it 10; even better 

        I got two of the little (not Acewell) ones years ago. Omega? Sigma? I got them both to be very accurate.

[tooseevee]

I also replaced the speedometer with the Acewell product, and it was quite easy to do. But I used the CA80-160RE, as I needed a km/h device. I had to use 2R1P.

https://www.g-homeserver.com/forum/royal-enfield-500-trials/388-tachometer

      That's a gorgeous piece of advertising there.

       The whole thing wreaks of quality.

[Blaqkfox]

Yup still gotta mess with it. Rode the bike today, at two pulses it was much more accurate, but it’s still off. I need to roll it a bunch of times with my weight on it like y’all are saying. I was turning and burning in 5th gear at almost 4K rpms and it said I was doing 53mph lol should’ve been more like 65mph. So I’m closer now.

At first I was confused why viczena said he bought another unit for KMPH, because this unit can do both, but then I saw the unit he’s got actually has a KMPH face for the dial gauge so that makes sense, mine only displays KMPH digitally or you’re converting looking at the mph face. That’s cool I didn’t know they made that one. I really do like this unit I might have to put them on my next bike!

[tooseevee]

Yup still gotta mess with it. Rode the bike today, at two pulses it was much more accurate, but it’s still off. I need to roll it a bunch of times with my weight on it like y’all are saying. I was turning and burning in 5th gear at almost 4K rpms and it said I was doing 53mph lol should’ve been more like 65mph. So I’m closer now.

       My first experience with one of these digitals was in the early 2000s & I got same results; it's not quite right yet.

       That's when I did the 3 full turns of the tire, sitting on the bike rolling it backwards, making chalk marks on the driveway, measuring that distance, dividing by 3 & getting MMs from our friend Google.

       The number I got from that was a bit  different than the 1 turn result. I don't remember how much, I've lost track of the notes I wrote then. Seems to me one of the numbers (the last two digits of the 4 digit number in MMs) was in the very high 70s & the other in the very low 80s. 

        I'll predict that some day  there will be units that can be set up using smartphone apps that everybody loves these days.

[Paul W]

I’ve just noticed an error in my earlier post. I should written that the diameter of a tyre (not the circumference) is a bit longer than twice the rolling radius.

Sorry, old age and stupidity kicking in.

[Blaqkfox]

hmm. more troubles today. or disappointment rather.

I rode to the nearby church to borrow their parking lot while nobody was around (its the only large paved area out where I live).

I parked the bike with the valve stem as close to bottom dead center as I could and marked the pavement with chalk.

I hopped on the bike started it up and rode slowly with all my weight on the bike counting the tire rotation...1...2...3.

parked the bike with the stem as close to BDC as I could and marked with chalk.

pulled out the measuring tape. 234 inches. divided by 3 thats 78 inches.

perfect I thought.

converted to mm for a grand total of 1981.2mm

I thought, thats awful small compared to the figures of 2068 or whatever y'all were giving me.

so I did it again. 4 full rotations this time.

came up within 1mm of the same number.

must be correct.

take off to ride the bike back home.

I'm screaming at 4k rpms in 5th gear and my speedo says 55mph. not a lot of throttle left either. odd... usually with the old factory speedo it would be reading around 65mph right now.

I give it full throttle, pushing it to its limit. it slowly creeps up 56, 57, ... 60mph absolute top speed. probably burning around 4.5k+ rpms in 5th at this point.

"No", I tell myself, "I know these bikes are pretty freaking slow, but the old gauge I topped out multiple times before at 70-75mph. I always cruise 60-65mph on the backroads home from work and have a solid 1/4 throttle left to give. This can't be correct."

So I ride back to the church and do the test for a 3rd time. 233inches. thats 77.7in. thats 1973.6mm roughly

so I plug that number in.

a little better, 55mph cruising speed, still a slow climb to 60mph though. honestly not much different than it was before. maybe gained 2mph or so but thats it.

bike was fully warmed up, conditions were good. I don't know why it reads slower than the oem gauge was. I was using the digital mph readout as I have the needle doing tach, but I can't imagine they'd be different. But ill try tomorrow and see. maybe the old gauge was just off some. id be curious to have a friend drive next to me and see how fast his car says were going. When I went on that long ride with my buddies we had a guy in a newer Audi RS7 behind me the whole way. I asked how fast we were going, and he said usually around 55mph. so maybe its not off. my other buddy leading the pack said we were doing about 65 at another point in the day when I was keeping up with them, but he also said his speedo was probably off some.

and ive always heard the old "55 all day, 65 for awhile" saying with these bikes, but that was for the old 4 speed iron barrels. I figured the 5 speed AVL lean burn here would be capable of more like "60 all day, 70 for awhile". And thats how it seemed with the oem gauge. so now im confused on what's correct. its only 5mph, but still.

Thinking the math must be correct. perhaps ill go back another day and try for about 10 rotations or something see if I get the same numbers.

OR maybe its just not tuned to its peak performance. By that I mean, I have things running a hair on the rich side (I think, thats a whole other story) with my BSA exhaust, hot tube mod, and up jetting the bs29. my chain probably has a hair too much slack in it too, but thats honestly negligible. everything else is in perfect working order though.

Also I may very well switch to an 18 tooth sprocket at some point. try and bump that top end up just a bit. if I could maintain 65mph on this bike id be a happy camper.

[tooseevee]

quote author=Blaqkfox link=topic=33338.msg413962#msg413962 date=1656286708]

hmm. more troubles today. or disappointment rather.

     ****Imogee for Oh No.

I parked the bike with the valve stem as close to bottom dead center as I could and marked the pavement with chalk.

     ****Not "as close to". Run a straight chalk line down the tire & measure exactly.

I hopped on the bike started it up and rode slowly with all my weight on the bike counting the tire rotation...1...2...3.

     ****Don't start it up & ride it. The bike's not heavy. Sit on it & Push it backwards In A Straight Line.

parked the bike with the stem as close to BDC as I could and marked with chalk.

      ****Again. Exact measurement.

pulled out the measuring tape. 234 inches. divided by 3 that's 78 inches.

converted to mm for a grand total of 1981.2mm

I thought, thats awful small compared to the figures of 2068 or whatever y'all were giving me.

     **** Forget those other numbers people were telling you. MEASURE Your Own number Yourself!

so I did it again. 4 full rotations this time.

came up within 1mm of the same number. must be correct.

I'm screaming at 4k rpms in 5th gear and my speedo says 55mph. not a lot of throttle left either. odd... usually with the old factory speedo it would be reading around 65mph right now.

    **** With a 17 tooth

        ** 50=3207 
        **  60=3855
        ** 70=4498

         ** (Adrian?)

I give it full throttle, pushing it to its limit. it slowly creeps up 56, 57, ... 60mph absolute top speed. probably burning around 4.5k+ rpms in 5th at this point.

      **** "Probably" "Around" 4,500?

       ****Isn't there a tach on that thing? You can't be guessing at RPM OR speed.

        **** You just have to get that tire rotation number as accurate as possible & then TRUST the number & then you have to quit guessing what your RPMs are.

        **** I think the only way you're going to believe your speed indication is to verify it with GPS. I hear you can use a telephone now as a speedometer.

        **** What will they think of next?

        **** (Well, I EFed that up pretty well, didn't I? How the hell do you insert a response WITHIN the quoted poster's text?)

[/quote]

[Paul W]

Interesting!

I know that the original speedo on my 350 reads approximately 10% fast, even though the final drive gearing is very slightly taller than standard (18/42 rather than 16/38). I do have a GPS speed “app” on my phone but so far I’ve not found a way of fastening it to the bike where I can see it to get a “real world” speed reading.

I occasionally ride on the motorway where the heavy goods vehicles generally travel at their governed maximum speed of 56 mph (some can now do 60 mph, depending on whether they are governed to European rules, or the more recent U.K. rule).

The bike will easily overtake them all but although it’s revving hard at those speeds I don’t think it’s outrageously so.

I suggest you try a phone app if you can safely do so. If you find the speedo is reading incorrectly you can then “fudge” the number you programme in, to make it work more accurately.

Edit: Your idea of “screaming revs” at 4,000 might be a fair bit lower than mine… 

[Blaqkfox]

Yeah 2cv, I just eyeballed the valve stem for BDC. And marked with chalk on the pavement. I figured if i was off a millimeter or two no big deal there. No sense in marking the tire, these sidewalls are not thick, I know I marked the pavement exactly in line with the valve stem, granted the valve stem could’ve been 1mm off of a true BDC. I could’ve used a pendulum to get super exact I guess, but I can’t imagine I was more than 1-2mm off at most.

I don’t think it matters if I ride slowly or walk it, but I am curious why you go backwards instead of forwards lol

As far as tac readings go, I was too busy watching the car in front of me at that moment, all I know is I was turning a little over 4K rpms at 55mph, so to be at 60mph I’m sure I was up there close to the limit

[Adrian II]

As for Electra-Xs and disappointing performance, it may well be time to lose that stock carb, plenty of advice available for something sportier. You've already gutted the exhaust downpipe and sorted a freer-flowing muffler, so that's one factor less to take into consideration.

A major limiting factor with these engines is the AVL cam design, you get valve bounce setting in at 5,800 rpm with these. THE solution is a set of original late 1950s Redditch Bullet "S" cams (try your swap meets), Bullet Whisperer lent me a set of well-used ones some years ago, and they transformed the top-end power, but good results have been had from a set of "R" cams from Price Part Motorcycles in the UK too.

The UK Electra-Xs had an 18T gearbox sprocket as stock, with my height and er... build I found it over-geared and dropped down to a 17T for a much happier bike, BUT if you're lighter, slimmer and maybe shorter than I am, 18T might be better suited to you for higher cruising speeds, at the cost of some acceleration.

A.

[AzCal Retred]

Find a piece of straight State or county road marked with mileage signs. Hold a constant speed (or constant RPM in 5th, you have a tach) over a two mile section, record the time and just do the math, that will be accurate. Adjust the speedo conversion factor until it gives the correct reading at that RPM. You don't really care exactly what the conversion number is, or why, it just needs to work.

The "55 all day, 65 for awhile" is related to power output, not whether or not there is a 4 or 5 speed in there. The top cog of the 5 speed is 1:1 also, so no real difference. The "mantra" relates to flogging the engine at max power output. The roller crank is normally better for making power UNLESS you have a known good custom fitted Bushing/Rod/Piston combo in there like Chumma can build. It takes maybe 30 HP to blast along at 75 or so; regular unfaired machines with an "upright rider" are pretty draggy. These Old School engines max out at maybe 25 HP, so there you are, it takes WFO effort on the Bullet motor to maintain those speeds - there's no reserve left. Almost every modern 500 engine is pumping out 40-50 HP. The Bullet engine can also reliably make 35-40 HP, but definitely not as a stock powerplant. If you are ready & willing to "Run to Failure", maybe start collecting bits for building that high performance engine now. You are about $3500 away from the performance you want, about the cost of a nice, modern, used 650cc - 1000cc motorcycle that will easily run those speeds. If the crank or rod lets go in the mean time it'll likely frag the cases, an expensive additional purchase.

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/Modified-5-Speed-Gearbox-Standard-Indian-Made
4 Speed ratios: 1st = 2.78:1, 2nd = 1.84:1, 3rd = 1.36:1, 4th = 1:1
5 Speed ratios: 1st = 3.06:1, 2nd = 2.01:1, 3rd = 1.52:1, 4th = 1.21:1, 5th = 1:1

[tooseevee]

I don’t think it matters if I ride slowly or walk it, but I am curious why you go backwards instead of forwards lol

          There's no special reason at all & it makes no difference that I can see. I land the bike in my garage going forward. To measure I rolled it out backwards onto the driveway, stopped, made a mark, rolled it backwards 3 rolls sitting on it, made a mark & measured the distance. Then I kicked it over, rode it back INto the garage & plugged in the numbers.   

[Blaqkfox]

Oh that’s super interesting there about the gear ratios! I always thought the 5th gear was an overdrive gear.

Also what does “WFO” stand for?

Also the mention of floating the valves at like 5800 rpms… I didn’t think these engines could rev that high. I thought the limit was around 5-5.4K rpms. I assume there’s no type  :oof limiter on these bikes though? And I assume you meant 17 tooth factory? Or going to a 19 not an 18 since 18 is factory? In either case the same idea applies I guess. I read in another thread our bikes here have a 17T factory, people in flat states like Florida said they like the 19T, but they suggested the 18T if they were up in my neck of the woods. It’s very hilly here in TN.

As for building the engine or whatever- I plan to enjoy the bike, if it lets go, then it lets go. I would expect to hear some warning signs before just shooting a rod through the block… wouldn’t be the first time I’ve done it though 🤪.  I only paid $500 for this bike, which was a steal. I’ve put a good $1000 give or take into it after that though. Some maintenance, some personal modifications. $3500 is actually much less than I was imagining, granted I’d be going with a big bore kit and forged internals at minimum. Otherwise I’d just redo it stock or fix whatever’s broken if it’s salvageable.

I am curious if anyones done any engine swaps on these. Say like the Suzuki s40 engine. I’m not a Suzuki fan per-say, but that is a pretty good engine.

I don’t much like the idea of swapping the engine though. If this was any other bike or something really common, then sure no problem, but something about this royal and it’s old engine just tickles my fancy. And they’re pretty rare to see over here so I’d like to keep it with the factory engine. Plus for some reason I much prefer the idea of an older original engine that’s been turned hot rod instead of a swap to something more powerful.

But I am curious, because lord knows if I could even find a replacement engine if I sent the rod through the block, so what engine swaps work?

[Paul W]

The “top” gear is 1:1 in that the input shaft is locked to the output side so that the drive doesn’t involve any gear meshing, which would cause drag and loss of performance and give higher fuel consumption.

I think the rev limit on these engines is when the valves bounce, there’s certainly no electronic limiter fitted.

As far as engine swaps go, I don’t think it’s easily possible because on these bikes the crankcase forms a structural part of the frame. An engine swap would need some serious fabrication to bridge the gap.

[tooseevee]

I’m not a Suzuki fan per-say, but that is a pretty good engine.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perse

[Adrian II]

If the crank or rod lets go in the mean time it'll likely frag the cases, an expensive additional purchase.

A not unknown scenario for an iron barrel engine with the stock alloy con-rod. LESS likely with the AVL engine which already has a forged steel con-rod. A disintegrating needle roller big end on the Electra-X can make a bit of a mess but it won't punch a hole in the crankcase. If the big end DOES fail, a new EFI Bullet con-rod and big end for maybe $100 from India is a direct replacement.

Now if you wanted a tuned Bullet engine you can start looking for the parts to build one and toughen it up as you go.

Another little mod I'd recommend is a serious sump magnet, but as the Electra-X crankcases don't have provision for one, you can modify your scavenge gauze screen drain plug as follows:

1. Drill and tap the bottom center of the plug for the ¼" thread of your choice, you'd probably want UNF;

2. Get a hex head screw to match, about 1" thread length;

3. Place a pair of 5mm diameter button neodymium magnets on top;

4. Fit the screw and magnets into the drain plug with some blue loctite or other thread sealant (not stud & bearing grade!)

5. Refit drain plug.

Some very small steel fragments can get through the gauze on the plug, the magnets should grab them on the way past before they get to the oil pump.



(Can be used on iron barrel engines too).

Gearbox sprocket size: 17T was stock for iron barrel 500s in the UK at least, probably the USA too. 18T was stock on the Electra-X, not sure what the US market AVL Classic would have had fresh out of the crate.

A.

[AzCal Retred]

"As for building the engine or whatever- I plan to enjoy the bike, if it lets go, then it lets go.

But I am curious, because lord knows if I could even find a replacement engine if I sent the rod through the block, so what engine swaps work?"

These are pretty much infinitely rebuildable. A set of cases now are still fairly cheap, as is acquiring a second motor and "building" it to make the kind of power you say you want, expecially if money isn't an issue.

I'm not seeing a reason for an engine swap. A fast modern single like the Yamaha SRX660 or the MZ Skorpion 660 or a breathed on KLR 650 will have real road geometry, suspension & brakes. It's absurd to push these old India-built, 1940's era machines to speed unless you are "Class Racing" or some such. Real speed requires real machine performance, otherwise you are just rolling the dice every time you sport about.

Hitchcock's & Ace have built fast, tough Bullet engines, that road's well traveled. Thrashing one of these old girls in stock form until it pukes seems pointless. Get a second motor and build it. Put the H's press together crank, 87mm cylinder, ported head & light valve train in it and then you'll have something to really flog about in.

[AzCal Retred]

WFO   Wide Freakin' Open (polite form)
WFO   Wound Flat Out

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/WFO

[Blaqkfox]

ah ok, here in the states its WOT (wide open throttle). although I feel wound flat out is more appropriate for laden conditions so I guess ill add that to my vocabulary, along with perse lol

and Adrian as for the magnets, I do actually keep very strong earth magnets on the bottom of every drain bolt. I do wonder if theyre strong enough to pull anything with those big screen filters the way its designed and all, so I might need to upgrade to what you've done. freaked me out when I read they just had gauze in the manual, cuz over here we call them mesh or screen filters, gauze is like what you would wrap a wound with, and I though golly thats gonna deteriorate awful quick lol

the only issue I have with building the engine is you literally cannot find them over here. im almost 30 years old and my royal enfield is only the second one ive ever seen. I took a poll in the RE USA community on the Facebook awhile back to see how many were in my area and I think I only got 1 or 2 people that were in my state with one. couple of people up north and other places, theres only like 2k people in that group, and most of them have the new meteor 350, Himalayan, or a few of the newer EFI classic 500. I assume theres more out there that just didn't see the post or aren't on Facebook or whatever, but you literally never see them here. The only other one ive ever seen was at that swap meet i recently went to, and he wasn't even from around here, he was on some sort of cross country tour to show it off and just happened to be there at the time I was. I could always buy one online but the shipping cost is pretty hefty. and H's parts to really build one of these engines is extraordinarily expensive. even if I spent a couple thousand on their performance kits and yada yada to get up to something crazy like some of these 612cc engines ive read about im only looking at around 40hp. I just can't rightly justify that much money for that in my mind. id prefer to just buy a faster bike in that case. the royal is great at what it does, and I love it for that.

I did end up buying another bike yesterday, a 900 triumph, for this exact reasoning actually. So id rather just enjoy the royal the only way I know how to around where I live and around the woody trails here on the farm (idk if ive ever mentioned it but I live on a farm thats over 350 acres, so theres lots of light off-road to do, ive just been scared to take the royal down that path, cuz its a pretty rare bike around here and parts have the added cost of shipping from overseas). but yeah. it is what it is and im ok with that, and if it breaks id just fix it back the way it was really.

[AzCal Retred]

Racing ADRA Desert in the 70's we spent a lot of time WFO on jeep roads. The Bullet will accommodate 4.00x19 trials front & rear, but you'll have to raise the front fender or get a different "trials" unit from Hitchcock's. The main issue is gearing, it's absurdly tall for offroad. The good news is that the non-unit design allows for primary gearing changes. The stock primary sprocket is 25T, H's has a 17T and shorter chain, a useful reduction. There's also a different rear hub arrangement with seperate sprockets.

The Bullet has street geometry, but the 4.00x19 front adds a bit of useful rake. It's still a just heavy street machine with knobblie tyres, but that's the way it was in 1940.

"H's parts to really build one of these engines is extraordinarily expensive." Well, no. You are attempting to re-engineer 80 years of engine and chassis/suspension advancement into it. The Bullet has a 50+ year production run of single-model parts. You have stumbled on the cheapest antique there is to own. Try it with a Ariel, BSA, Triumph or AJS...

"the only issue I have with building the engine is you literally cannot find them over here".They show up on Craigs list, ebay, etc. There is a fellow in the IB section that claims to want a replacement engine, and we've posted about 5 links in a week or so for used buildable engines, from $500 to $1200, with shipping. Apparently he wanted a $500 fully rebuilt and warranteed unit...dream on. Nothing's free, especially new parts, machine work and skilled assembly labor. These are DIY machines. If you don't break it, you won't have to fix it.

The smartest thing to do is leave it stock, maintain it thoughtfully, put a set of K70's or Duro HF308's and enjoy the local backroads at 20 - 50 MPH. It'll never be a modern dirt, trail or street bike. BUT it is an incredible window into 1940's motorcycling. Once you learn to live with it and beat thru it's inevitable warts, they are competent, user friendly machines. Incredible journeys have been made on these simple machines.

That 900 Triumph was a good move. Save the Bullet for soul-cleansing backroad weekday putts and embrace its 1940's mechanical weirdness that led up to that lovely Triumph. Or as it's now running, sell it on to some geezer that will not mind the lack of performance or the amount of "fettling" they need.











 

[Blaqkfox]

The smartest thing to do is leave it stock, maintain it thoughtfully, put a set of K70's or Duro HF308's and enjoy the local backroads at 20 - 50 MPH. It'll never be a modern dirt, trail or street bike. BUT it is an incredible window into 1940's motorcycling. Once you learn to live with it and beat thru it's inevitable warts, they are competent, user friendly machines. Incredible journeys have been made on these simple machines.

That 900 Triumph was a good move. Save the Bullet for soul-cleansing backroad weekday putts and embrace its 1940's mechanical weirdness that led up to that lovely Triumph. Or as it's now running, sell it on to some geezer that will not mind the lack of performance or the amount of "fettling" they need.

I couldn't agree more! I wanted the bonnie or a thuxton, but the legend came up for basically what I just sold my cm400 Honda for, so ya get what ya get kinda thing.

The only part I don't understand is your reply to me saying theyre aren't any here and H's parts are expensive. Their performance gear box is 3400 pounds. thats over $4,000 USD. A crank is $1400 USD. A big bore kit is $500 USD. Sure theres some little stuff like $200 cams and whatnot too. But hey I live in America so I only make like $500 a week here. And sure I could do without the gearbox (the only one they have is right hand shift anyways). And sure, thats cheap in the world of aftermarket well built engine internals. But its a lot of money to be spending on a bike with $2000 thats only going to make 30-40hp at the end of the day. I never find anyone online, ive tried craigslist, Facebook, etc. I think ive seen two on Facebook marketplace, granted hundreds of miles away, a good 3 hour drive or more one way, and they were iron barrels, one really nicely modified one and the other kinda ratty that somebody tried to chop up into a bobber, but most I find are on that RE USA group on FB but theyre always EFI bikes and always a 6 hour or more drive away one way.

So yeah I mean its just pointless to me to drop that kinda cash into it when I could save myself the time and effort by just buying another bike that, and it would have way more power than the royal could ever dream of making. Not that it needs to. The royal is great for what it is. And I am quite fond of it. But I don't expect it to be something its not meant to be. Another faster road bike is going to be great for my commute to work, I can actually take the highway and keep up with my buddies on our long rides. But it can't do what the royal does. It wouldn't be a good trail bike. Its not a time machine that fun to bring out to swap meets. Its not a simple and easy to work on tractor like the bullet. And it defiantly won't be as good looking or have the unique time machine feel. The royal is great at what it does and I love it for that. But I do need other tools to get other jobs done if you know what im saying.

[AzCal Retred]

You are under 30, you have lots of demands on your time & money at this point in your life. Motorcycles are an expensive hobby, the Electra will require more time and upkeep than the Triumph. The real debate here is the "wants vs. needs" dichotomy. Most of us here have had lots of machinery that we wanted, but actually kept the machinery we needed.

Keeping the Electra largely stock and not thrashing it is the most frugal way to own it. But at 25-30 years old, you keenly feel the "need for speed", and the Electra will always fall short in performance compared to modern equipment. Tying up money and garage space in a machine that is slow results in a waste of that space & money. You sound like you enjoy riding with your friends, whether on road or off, and the Electra won't further that goal. IF you have a 6 or 7 figure income, none of that matters, you can "Leno ON!" and gold plate it as much as you wish for that yearly ride with no concerns whatsoever. As you are concerned about parts & shipping costs, I suspect that isn't the case.

It's running now, and pretty, so turn it for $3500 - $4500, make your $2K - $3K and move on. Put that money to work for the real-time needs of a 25-30 year old guy. At one time in my youth I had a nice alloy tank BSA 441 Victor. Even then compared to the Japanese efforts available in 1972 it was klunky and slow and hard to start with a vicious kick back. I soon traded it to an old guy for a 60HP, Kawasaki H1 500 Triple. I rode the wheels off of that Kawasaki and he got to relive his glory days. The Victor would have been a nice bike for me now, 40 years later, but unless you have unlimited resources you can't keep everything. The H1 was the bike I "needed" when I was in my 20's; it ran anywhere I wanted to go, at literally any speed I felt like going.

About parts prices. Hitchcock's is supplying a niche market, which is what the pre-unit Royal Enfields fall into. They make Pre-Unit ownership extremely easy. All of their "stock" bits aren't that far removed from current equivalent Japanese parts prices, which is really amazing for a machine first produced in the 1940's. The "speed parts" fall into an even more rarified category. All those are a product of R&D time that Alan Hitchcock & crew have put in. You can't expect people to work for free - neither you nor I would. In the end "Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?". H's supply a small, low volume specialized market, nothing about that is going to be cheap. At least you can get them off-the-shelf, try that with speed parts for any of the other 1940's vintage brit-bikes.

Your 900 Triumph is a clean sheet design and will run off and leave for dead the Triumph machines of the 1960's. You have now experienced the 1940's, you aren't married to them. You don't have any "need" to dig a hole, stay free. Get a 500ish dual purpose to match that Triumph and move on, spend your "fun time" riding with your buddies instead of pouring money into gold plating a brand-new 1940's machine, in your garage, largely alone. I'm old, and slow, and I have 5 of these old girls in various states of repair. I tinker in solitude but that's what I like. You are young, stay free, get out there. You can always get another antique at an estate sale in a few years if it still appeals...
Good hunting - ACR -

[Blaqkfox]

well, we are getting off topic here, but I will answer some of the points you have brought up.

yeah im still relatively young at age 29, but I don't really have much of anything taking my money. I'm very fortunate in that I don't have rent or mortgage to worry with. We inherited the farm house after my wife's grandmother passed last year. The only thing I really spend money on is gas to get to work, groceries, and electric bills. Heck im so off the grid we don't even pay for water, we are on well water. Little bit of electric bill to run the pump but its far less money than paying a city for water.

I don't have a need for speed really either. In fact im quite scared of it lol. I have no want to exceed 100mph. But the speed most drive on the interstate here is around 80mph so I would like to keep up with traffic and be able to go places. You practically can't go anywhere quickly in America if you don't use an interstate. The windy backroads to work are fun but it does take an extra 20-30 min to get where im going...almost double the time it would take using the interstate.

I don't really need to sell the royal. I'll keep it. I have plenty of other toys... a 350z, an old farm truck, and now the triumph. I've never been able to make more than around $20-25k a year here. And thats making twice my states minimum wage. So im really not doing too shabby. I managed an auto parts store for 4 years, I lead a crew laying hardwood flooring, ive worked as a tire and lube tech for a few years, retail, food, ive worked a lot of hard jobs that should pay more but don't lol. and the wife has a cushy tech job that pays decent so we do alright. You really can't make 3 figures in America unless you have a very very good job. My father is an electrical engineer of 4 decades and he just bearly clears over 6 figures. My mothers a nurse of 4 decades and does not. Thats just America for ya in this day and age imo. but im getting off topic.

I've always only bought something I could fix up to make money off of (except the vehicles I have now, because I took a loan out to buy the low milage 350z so I could establish a credit score, and the old farm truck was actually my grandfathers). But ive had about 24 vehicles over the years, just stuff id buy, fix, and flip for some extra income to get by since jobs were only paying $10-12/hr back then, so I was making less than $20k a year and rent alone was over half of that income at around $1k a month, after groceries and gas and whatnot that didn't leave hardly anything, so couldn't afford a car loan or even a reliable car, didn't have credit anyways so couldn't buy property either ya know. But now with the house we have my $20k a year job feels more like a $40k a year income (plus the extra side money I get for taking metal scraps from work and buying and flipping bikes and cars and stuff). Thats more than teachers make here. Thats about the income of a service writer at a dealership, or a green electrician, a general manager, etc. And because I didn't finish college or go taking out loans for anything im not drowning in debt like most my other friends who did. So im actually quite well off for my position, granted I’m still below average income, but because I don't waste money on anything that doesnt have the potential to make money im never really that worried about it.

I did go spending too much on the royal because I decided to keep it. I just like it too much, its too interesting. I could sell it but at this point id probably only break even or make $1k off it at most. Id rather just keep it if thats all im going to make off it. Even the triumph I just bought was only really because it was a good deal, it was just an added bonus that it was fast enough for the interstate lol and I just found out you have to split the case to fix the starter sprag on the triumph, hopefully a starter alone will get it right, but then ill be selling it for about $1k profit just because knowing my luck that sprag will fail soon and then id be in the hole with it.

But yeah, I love the little royal, and I agree theres no sense in gold plating it or building it, I simply need a different tool for a different job. A different bike for those times I need to take the interstate or want to ride with my buddies and their liter bikes. It is what it is! but thats all ill say about all that, we're way off topic now ha

[AzCal Retred]

Sounds like you've found a little bit of Paradise to me, even better you know it, and before the age of 30. Well done, Sir!

Once you get to "repair equilibrium" with your AVL it's mostly just minor adjustments, chain lube & oil changes. Treat it like basic transport that you need to work, i.e. ride in a "mechanically sympathetic" manner, and they hold up well. Just look at what the Indians do with them.
That AVL was the last best, effort on the pre-units, it's a pretty nice package.

The Duro HF307 Trials Universals & HF308 Street Universals have durable tread, decent traction and are reasonable in price, like the K70 Dunlop used to be. The Trials might work a bit better if you have a lot of unpaved back roads, a 3.50x19 should work on both ends. - ACR -

[Blaqkfox]

Looks like I know what my next set of tires will be then!

I have the k70 tires now in stock 3.25/350 specs and they’ve been great, but I’ll try those others if I ever wear these down enough.

I toyed with the idea of a 3.5 front and a 4.0 rear but I don’t believe the rear would work. I’m already super close to rubbing the swing arm where it bottlenecks. I know people say it does but for whatever reason on my bike I don’t think I’d be able to get away with it.

At any rate it’s not very extreme terrain around here. More just fields and some flat and hilly ground out in the woods. We hike back there a lot so there’s trails we’ve made. And a big access road that trucks use to get back there. It’s not like rocky or steep inclines or anything like that. It’s pretty “chill” as the kids would say.

[tooseevee]

well, we are getting off topic here, but I will answer some of the points you have brought up.

I don't really need to sell the royal. I'll keep itgetting off topic.

I did go spending too much on the royal because I decided to keep it. I just like it too much, its too interesting. Id rather just keep it if that's all im going to make off it

But yeah, I love the little royal, and I agree there's no sense in gold plating it..... but that's all i'll say about all that, we're way off topic now

           Good luck to you, my friend. Similar to you, we did all our prepping early back in the '80s. Paid off the house in 15 years & have been able to put the mortgage payments into the property with addition of years of blood, sweat & tears & hiring VERY few people to do ANYthing.

        Just a friendly request to make an old man happy on this Pleasant Valley Sunday: Please call your bike an Enfield, not a Royal. Royal by itself is just an adjective & it just doesn't sound right 

           You've done a good job on your Enfield after some teething & learner's curve pain. Please don't flog it to death.

            And may the Force keep your sprag together.

[Blaqkfox]

but royal sounds so much more.... royal 

And may the Force keep your sprag together.

lol help me Hitchcock, you're my only hope

[Fahnone]

Hello everybody, maybe you could help me.

Altought i looked the video on the Acewell speedometer of Blaqkfox twice, i still messed up, especially with entering km's to the odometer, tought there where a tens of a kilometer to the last digit and know i have 77xxx km instead of 7xxx km.....

So far i will try to send it back to get a reset on that.

But i have another problem...

First of all my Modell is a 2007 Bullet 500 ES Iron Barrel, so unlike in the video of Blaqkfox i dont have these two connectors underneath the tank to attach both cables for the Rev's, so i can't use this cable, and my biggest problem is that the speedometer keeps getting juice from the battery even with the ignition off and the key pulled out, so the backlight stays on, until i pull the cable of behind the headlamp....

It's freaking me out....

So maybe someone has a idea on that?
I tought normally with ignition switched off, it cut's the juice from the battery?

Thank you in advance

Greetings from Luxembourg

Stephan

[tooseevee]

Hello everybody, maybe you could help me.

But i have another problem...

First of all my Modell is a 2007 Bullet 500 ES Iron Barrel, so unlike in the video of Blaqkfox i dont have these two connectors underneath the tank to attach both cables for the Rev's, so i can't use this cable, and my biggest problem is that the speedometer keeps getting juice from the battery even with the ignition off and the key pulled out, so the backlight stays on, until i pull the cable of behind the headlamp....

Stephan

            Sounds like your speedo lighting is hot wired right to the battery, but that's just a guess.

            You might think about shifting this to the Iron Barrel Section of the Forum & starting a new thread there.