[Blaqkfox]

2008 Electra X. Gone through it and got it running great. Been riding for about two weeks now with no problems, then suddenly tonight when I was booking it back home to meet a deadline, 3/4 to WOT the whole 32 miles home, I get what felt like a fuel cut or a lack of spark, it immediately came back, and then immediately did it again. I thought shoot I must be out of gas (even tho I filled up this morning and had only rode maybe 60 miles) but I flipped it to reserve, the problem still persisted. Luckily made it home, bike died as I slowed down to pull into the driveway. Fired right back up no problem though. I check and ive got half a tank of gas still. Clean gas, I just cleaned the tank and I have a filter in line. Figured maybe im running too rich and fowling a plug (I pulled the baffle in the header out and upped it to a 118 main jet). But no spark plug looks great and isn't even a week old. So now im kinda stumped.

Are these bikes fancy enough to have a governor? I doubt it, Ive done 75 before and I was doing about 70-75 when this all happened.

So I figure I must be randomly dropping spark? Maybe a coil issue or something? Is this a common problem y'all can quickly pinpoint for me or do I just need to go through it and check the transistor coil and points(?) (idk if this thing even has points or what. I haven't had to mess with the ignition systems yet). Like are these coils known for failing or misfires happening at higher speeds or something common?

[Adrian II]

Check the vent in the gas tank filler cap! If you want the gas to flow out, air has to flow in. This has caught me out with more than one Indian Royal Enfield.

A.

[Blaqkfox]

Adrian, you are a god send. I seriously cannot thank you enough for the help. You're on every one of my post with great info. Like seriously, DM me or something and ill buy you a steak dinner and a beer.

I just posted a lengthy related reply in my other thread about the exhaust bluing. I have not checked to see if those vents are clear but I will. It would honestly make sense, its been 80+ these last few days (thats like 27C for y'all across the pond) and most of my ride is in the tree covered shade except for the long ride on the highway home. It just did it again today in the same spot too after a solid 100 mile ride. I stopped at my grandparents house earlier mid ride and went to move the bike into the shade after showing it off to my grandpa and when started to roll it I heard a loud vent of air purge from the gas cap. Which makes me think it was blocked up and suddenly released as I jostled it around. So I bet you are onto something....

[Blaqkfox]

Learned in the other thread the green TCI box has the spark delay built in, but I have the green box AND I have the small black relay looking box on the side of the battery that is the old spark delay unit. I wonder if my spark is being extra retarded due to having both. Going to try and sort that out…

[Adrian II]

The spark delay, as far as I can tell, delays the switching-on of the sparks rather then altering the actual ignition timing, at least that was its job.

A.

[Blaqkfox]

oooh ok. so its just there to delay the TCI unit while cranking is what you mean?

here's the green TCI module under the seat by the R&R and flasher relay (mines orange and electronic for the led turn signals)



and the black spark delay box...



I will say, I hope its not related but one night while rushing to assemble it I forgot to connect the main ground, and the little ground wire in that last photo (with the torpedo connector) that looks like its tied into the delay unit did get very hot when I tried to crank it. even smoked a little and melted the outer rubber of the wire slightly. obviously I stoped everything immediately realizing what I had done. but it ran fine for like a week after that so I don't think its related, and if it is it sounds like it would only effect the spark delay unit, unless its tied into the TCI in a manner and I might've damaged the TCI unit slightly perhaps. But if that were the case I imagine I would be having more constant issues, not a random misfire after 40 minute rides like I am having. Ill keep digging I suppose. Im starting to suspect that metal spark plug cap, I think ill replace it. I have some trail 90 screw in type rubber boots laying around that aught to fit...

[Adrian II]

The OEM plug carb IS worth replacing with a quality item. Best not to use a suppressor cap AND a resistor plug as it might weaken the spark, either or...

A.

[Blaqkfox]

The OEM plug carb IS worth replacing with a quality item. Best not to use a suppressor cap AND a resistor plug as it might weaken the spark, either or...

A.

So today I took the old metal cap off and was able to use one of the rubber caps laying around from spare trail 90 Honda parts I had. I went on a ride for an hour and a half, mostly doing 60mph (I live in the far out in the country in the south in the USA so its miles and miles of highway around here and 30mph through town, but that doesnt last long, small town. nearest large towns are 45 minutes away).

Anyways I ride for an hour and a half, no problems. That is, until I got about two blocks from the house again! wtf. It hickup'd (misifred) one single time as I was slowing down to enter my driveway off the highway, and was dead by the time I was fully in my driveway. Once again it fired back up like nothing was wrong.

A few hours later I go for a ride again. No issues, but I only rode for maybe 10 minutes.

I am honestly starting to wonder if its not a problem with the bike but an outside influence...

Let me explain what I mean...

This misfire and dead by the driveway event has happened 3x now. With 100+ mile trips and hours of riding in-between events without a problem. It ALWAYS happens in almost the same exact spot about a block or two before my house. Always around the same time of day, in the evening around 6pm or so, except that one time on the weekend at like 3pm...

I do have a crazy neighbor that lives down the side road next to where this always happens, granted he is a good way down that road, maybe a mile(?)

#countryliving

but he is a nut job. His yard is plastered with like 15 or 20 GIANT signs that say F*&K Judge so-and-so and "don't trust the government" and a whole bunch of other stuff.

long story short, he and his brother had a shootout with the cops like 12 years ago or something, they thought the police were out to get them and harassing them and one day they ambushed the police, it was a whole thing, one of the giant signs has photos of the officers that were shot and killed. its graphic.

ANYWAYS. I would not be surprised if he has some sort of HAM radio or police radar jammer, or some sort of something emitting a signal that could be messing with my spark plug signal...

If it wasn't for the fact spark plugs today are sold with built in resistors to prevent radio wave interference I would say this is a loony theory to say the least, but it just strikes me as odd that my bike works perfectly fine for 150+ miles and hours in between and only misfires in this exact area at these exact times of day...

[Adrian II]

Unfortunately no-one sells a hot-tube ignition kit for the Electra-X! The blowlamp under the gas tank is probably a little too risky... I'm not sure anti electro-magnetic interference kits are a big part of Hitchcocks' inventory either, but you might be onto something. How would you investigate this? Are any or your other vehicles affected?

Azcal, any ideas?

A.

[Blaqkfox]

Unfortunately no-one sells a hot-tube ignition kit for the Electra-X! The blowlamp under the gas tank is probably a little too risky... I'm not sure anti electro-magnetic interference kits are a big part of Hitchcocks' inventory either, but you might be onto something. How would you investigate this? Are any or your other vehicles affected?

Azcal, any ideas?

A.

Not that I know of, but we don’t get a whole lot of traffic out here, and most vehicles on the road today use those spark plugs with built in resistors so they wouldn’t be effected. And there’s nothing but cattle fields in this area. I have ridden down that road and past his house a few times without any issues later in the evening to try and test this, but maybe it’s time specific or maybe it’s not him but something else. People do mow this area and he has neighbors that live down that road, I think there’s like 3 or 4 other houses down there, and we have family that lives in one of those houses. No reports of odd electrical events from them either though.

Honestly this is probably a loony theory, it probably is the bike, but it makes me wonder lol

[Paul W]

The resistor in a spark plug cap is there to prevent radio interference from the engine, not the other way round!

To confirm whether or not it’s fuel related, immediately the engine falters, switch off the fuel tap then the engine. Then see if the system has run dry.

[Blaqkfox]

The resistor in a spark plug cap is there to prevent radio interference from the engine, not the other way round!

To confirm whether or not it’s fuel related, immediately the engine falters, switch off the fuel tap then the engine. Then see if the system has run dry.

It’s not a fuel issue I don’t think, I have a clear fuel filter in-line between the petcock and carb, cuz that’s what it acted like and I immediately looked down at it and i could see fuel in it.

That being said, I do still have the old bowl style petcock on the tank, and the other day while messing with the bike I pulled the fuel line off, lost some fuel, and when I hooked things back up and turned the petcock on it acted like it was vapor locked- no fuel flow- I spun the petcock around a time or two and it slowly filled the clear filer back up.

I have recently cleaned the fuel tank due to the liner failing- there were chunks of it floating in the tank- I did not, however; pull the bowl off the petcock to inspect/clean it. I was afraid it would leak and didn’t have a gasket/o-ring/whatever it is on hand and was itching to ride the bike for the first time (bought it non running). Figured it’d be fine since the petcock has those tiny mesh screen tubes on it.

I always check before I ride and there’s always fuel in the filter. So I really don’t think it’s a fuel issue, but I’ll order a new petcock and/or tear that one apart and inspect it. It’s also worth noting the filter is still crystal clear and clean.

So I really think it’s a spark issue like a failing coil or something. It feels like a misfire and I can hit the throttle and it gets worse or let off the throttle for a second and it comes back for a second but stutters again.

But if it happens again I’ll try shutting the fuel off to see if it is a fuel issue.

It rarely happens, and when it does it’s always at the same place geographically is the part that gets me.

[AzCal Retred]

@ #8: Definitely Faraday shielding is called for, if not copper mesh gauze then HD BBQ rated tinfoil...

Plan #B would be to convert to diesel, direct injection. A weekend project? 

I went to the H's "alcohol" large bore fuel tap to feed my inline 40 uM clear fuel filter. Stock ID taps wouldn't let the filter "vent" and it seemed to "air bind" and restrict fuel. Anyway, no more issues with fuel delivery or venting after the alcohol unit was installed, and you get strong fuel flow to the carb inlet nipple. The alcohol tap is on/off only, but I've never had any faith in reserve petcocks anyway - I just pop the cap & check from time to time. The Alcohol unit requires a "tail" fitting, I used the straight 1/4" H's unit and some gasket sealer. Simple is good.

Weak spark is usually seen at or near WOT when cylinder pressures are highest and it takes more "Ongawa" to jump the gap. A fine wire (Iridium) electrode plug gapped at 0.035" should work even if spark isn't OEM strong. If it doesn't stop a high speed misfire, time to start swapping out components. Your Electra/AVL uses electronic ignition, there will be a bit more guesswork & voodoo associated with it than my archaic points driven beasts.

Make sure the outer porcelain on the plug is super clean also, as Ongawa can leak to ground in the outside using a thin conductive layer of grunge or carbon. For "fun" we used to put a graphite pencil trace on the electrode center porcelain of a new plug to perplex out riding buddies, but it worked just as well on the outside but was harder to see inside. Certain fuels will occasionally carry conductive deposits onto the plug center insulator, so a fresh plug never hurts.

[Adrian II]

@ #8: Definitely Faraday shielding is called for, if not copper mesh gauze then HD BBQ rated tinfoil... [/img]

Would you recommend applying this to the exterior of the TCI box, or are we talking an essential new line in helmet liners? I confess that I didn't check to see if the neighbo(u)r actually could have bought an EMP generator off Amazon or wherever. Perhaps the gentleman is spending his money on those yummy survival rations here with his very own Waco mini-siege in mind.

https://store.jimbakkershow.com/product/prepared-pantry-60-meal-bucket/

I should probably STFU about now... 

A.

[AzCal Retred]

I was thinking more along the line of a hand-hammered alloy dustbin fairing for maximum effect...

[Blaqkfox]

Y’all are cracking me up 😂.

He really probably does have rations, I wouldn’t be surprised. I’ll have to post a photo of his place if I get the kahunas to attempt to take a photo. It’s wild.

I have taken the bike on two separate outings now, each 1 hour or longer rides with no problems. I even rode by his place and around the backroads there for an hour out of curiosity, and nothing happened.

So I really don’t know what’s going on with this bike. Maybe the petcock got vapor locked, maybe there was some bad fuel in the tank. I have no idea. But it’s only happened those 3 times in the last 600 miles now (I ride a lot). So go figure.

The only thing I have changed since is that metal spark plug cap- traded it out for a rubber one I had laying around. So maybe that’s all it was. Who knows.

[AzCal Retred]

Usually it's the last thing you touched, but with electricity there can always be some voodoo. In my Hydro Power Plant time I had a "Grounded Battery" alarm that always showed up 15 minutes before sunrise in the summer. Turned out to be a thin layer of crystalized mouse urine becoming conductive as the morning dew drifted in and solubilized it into a resistor that bled from the posts to ground...!! A thorough cleaning and Voila, no more time-of-day related ground alarm.

The plug caps seem to be culpable for many issues. The nice bakelite "NGK" ones seem more reliable than the metal-overcoat variety. New fresh fuel, a new spark plug, clean air filter, verified good fuel flow to the carb, NO CRUD in the float bowl, clean well-gapped & properly timed points, valves not too tight, maybe even fresh oil & filter, all of these contribute to making the bike run well and placating the "Bike Spirits" that seem to haunt these old girls.

In Newberry Springs I watched a "Survivalist" buy an old gas station right on the interstate and then incessantly complain that folks kept stopping in to try to gas up and use the phone...   Who could have predicted that? Apparently there's no screening process to qualify one as a Survivalist/Doomsday Prepper.
"Stupidity is like Nuclear Power: it can be used for good or evil, just don't get any on you." Scott Adams, Dilbert

[Adrian II]

At least points won't be a worry on this bike, unlike over in the I.B. section...

A.

[Blaqkfox]

Yeah no points to worry about here, although I like the archaic tech, instead I just have to worry about the pickup on the crank being out of time from the factory per our other thread lol.

Yeah so I bought the bike non running, tanks been cleaned, carbs been sonic cleaned, fresh oil change twice over to ensure I got all the moisture out since it sat for a few years, shit looked like chocolate milk lol, spark plug is new as well, although the plug keeps throwing me off trying to read it, its like its too rich and too lean at the same time, I don't get it. The ceramic by the electrode is still pure white after 400+ miles indicating a too lean condition but the outer edge is heavy with black soot indicating a too rich condition.

Well I take that back, this plug probably only has about 200 miles on it. I changed it out because I pulled the baffler in the header pipe and upped the jet size too large and killed the NGK plug I had in it. This new autolite brand plug I fear might be burning hotter- the ground strap is clean about 3/4 of the way, it should be more like half if its the correct temperature, if I understand correctly, but thats a whole other thread I have going on about my super blue exhaust pipes that I can't seem to figure out... perhaps I should still be running the stock jets since I only removed the baffle or maybe I need to get a high flow air filter and mod the box idk...

At any rate, for now, this problem seems to have resolved itself. Im sure ill post here again if it happens again or I find any indication of what's causing it.

Thanks y'all.

[AzCal Retred]

The center electrode is the only part to be concerned with, that is the spark insulation. The plug thread wall temperature will be the same as the cylinder head, carbon will build up there, nothing of interest. The center insulator gets a "toasted white & blistered" appearance if too hot a heat range for how you ride. Gasoline is black, oil deposits are grey & brown. The plug has to be hot enough to keep the oil deposits burned off so they don't short the insulator and bleed off the spark. Old School tuner Gordon Jennings watched for the black fuel residue "carbon ring" at the base of the insulator, saying "as long as you can see a ring you aren't too lean". The ring moves up towards the tip as it gets richer, down as it leans out. Two-strokes need to see a distinct ring, four-strokes can be leaned out until the ring just disappears. This is of course under load and a fresh plug, run loaded at least a mile or two.

[Adrian II]

perhaps I should still be running the stock jets since I only removed the baffle

No, no, no! Please will you take this on-board?

As tooseevee explains in your other thread, removing the restriction in the pipe WILL make a difference, it is no-longer a stock exhaust, therefore a stock main jet is no longer appropriate.

Anyway, here is the chart of spark plug burn colo(u)rs I was thinking of earlier. If we ignore the black ring on the outside of the plug and look at the electrodes and center insulator, yours still looks quite lean compared to the best one here. Did you cross reference your new plug to match NGK's 9 rating?

or maybe I need to get a high flow air filter and mod the box idk...

According to people who k, free-ing up the intake breathing will ALSO need a bigger main jet!!! Shifting more air to the same amount of gasoline vapour = guess what?

A.

[Blaqkfox]

Yeah it’s just really confusing because not all those charts show the same spark plug readings and other forums say otherwise, idk.

Here I made a video if it’s any help…

https://youtu.be/6sCh5kRLJlo

[Blaqkfox]

I might have finally figured out the misfire issue...

Today the new airbox side carb boot showed up. The old one had some dry rot, and even though it tested fine / wasn't an air leak at idle, I decided to go ahead and replace it just to rule it out for the whole running lean issue.

Well well well, upon replacing that boot when I had the electronics all apart I noticed one of my smaller ground wires had an exposed area. I recently painted the battery box related metal pieces so doubt it could have shorted out to anything, but if anything I would say thats a suspect. Thew some heat shrink on it, maybe now my random power loss will stop.

I also found a 120 main jet and have some 17.5 pilot jets on the way so maybe that will clear things up. Im about to just order a new exhaust too so I don't have to look at this blue anymore.

I am worried about tuning on a new exhaust though, how do you keep it from changing color while dialing the tune in?

Also I went to check my tappets, those have always sounded worryingly loud to me, and im at TDC or close to it on the compression stroke, but I cannot rotate them. Im worried they might be too tight. The bikes only got 2k miles on it but its been a hard 2k miles. Somebody was clearly in there messing with the carb needle height and all sorts of stuff, you know. Makes me wonder if they adjusted the tappets wrongly too. Its always struck me odd that a good 1/3 of the time my compression release won't let me fully depress it to raise the exhaust valve, it only lets me go like 1/2-3/4 of the way and binds, but if I spin the engine over some with the kick starter then I can depress it all the way. Is this a normal function or is it more likely ive got a bent pushrod?

The bike runs well, even though its lean and all. Idk if I should mess with the tappet adjustment or not. Im worried I don't have it at TDC correctly or something. Now ive torn plenty of engines apart, so im used to setting valve clearances on rocker arms and even hydraulic lifters with the shims, but this is the first pushrod engine ive fooled with. I just don't want to mess it up.

[AzCal Retred]

"Makes me wonder if they adjusted the tappets wrongly too." Ha ha ha - get right in there and check them for yourself, it's easy and mission critical. Rectifying PO issues are an essential task, just assume EVERYTHING is screwed up unless you have personally massaged it. "Trust but Verify..." Take pictures & keep notes.

Tappets on these engines loosen as the engine heats up. When warm they should spin with very light finger pressure. Run until warmed up, shut off and leave at TDC or thereabouts. Do this before it hits BBQ temp. Pop off the tappet cover; both the intake & exhaust pushrods should spin freely with little perceptible vertical play. If not, adjust appropriately.  They MUST have some slack at operating temp.

The rockers, tappets and cam followers/lifters will never be silent. IF the lifter bores get worn they will make an audible "clank" as they snap over center left-right on the cam noses. Mine on my red machine have a very spooky agricultural CLANK and are slated for replacement, the black 350 just sounds mechanical. With the red bike's timing cover off and the cams out I can move the tappets radially in the guides maybe 1/32"-3/64" and clearly replicate CLANK the sound.

Another wrinkle is that the tappet rubbing faces aren't guaranteed to wear evenly, so check clearance again after you kick the machine thru a few times to verify that it's the same everywhere. The tappet disc rotates in service, driven by the cam nose. My red bike chewed the cam noses a bit as well as the tappet discs, so I have a replacement pair of cams to slide in there when the new tappets & guides go in.

"There's No problem so big you can't throw money at it"....

[Paul W]

When I first bought my 350 it had a soft exhaust valve seat so the valve recessed quite quickly. I had to adjust the valve clearances every 50 to 100 miles. Usually at the side of the road. It’s a five minute job, so have ago yourself!

It’s easy enough as long as you have spanners (wrenches) with slim heads because there’s not a lot of room in there.

[tooseevee]

 Its always struck me odd that a good 1/3 of the time my compression release won't let me fully depress it to raise the exhaust valve, it only lets me go like 1/2-3/4 of the way and binds, but if I spin the engine over some with the kick starter then I can depress it all the way. Is this a normal function or is it more likely ive got a bent pushrod?

           Yes, that's the way the "compression release" on an AVL "feels" because when you pull that lever it is NOT raising the exhaust valve.

           When you pull that lever it is rotating a small cam that jams against the exhaust valve pushrod holding it UP & preventing the exhaust valve from closing. You must pull on the lever WHILE THE ENGINE IS BEING ROTATED in order for the little cam to jam against the pushrod & keep it from moving back down & closing the valve. Pulling on that lever without the engine turning over doesn't raise or decompress ANYthing.

           You can see this little cam that holds the pushrod up if you pull the tappet cover off. You'll also see the little "tophat" collar that's on the exhaust pushrod.

            The decompression does work IF you rotate the engine while pulling & holding tension on the lever. The proof of this is that you can kill the engine instantly by pulling the lever.

           And do what AzCal sez; get in there & adjust your valves if you haven't already.     

[Adrian II]

One of the down sides of the AVL redesign of the old iron barrel Bullet (at least as implemented by the factory) is that the valve train components are less robust, the tappet stems were slimmed down from the original ⅜" diameter (which worked fine for years) to 7.something mm. The tappet adjuster design was also changed for something flakier, instead of the cup-ended adjuster screwing into the push rod end, sitting securely over the rounded-off end of the tappet, there is a ball-ended tappet adjuster with the ball sitting in a recess ground into the tappet end. I don't know if the plan was to lighten the valve train components to try and help the engines rev faster, but as the stock AVL cams cause valve bounce to set in at 5,800 rpm, I can't see the point of messing with a superior set up.

I don't recall excessive tappet stem wear on my Electra-X, though I do have strong memories of the exhaust tappet's foot snapping off just as I was accelerating uphill...

As Azcal points out, the iron barrel items are not immune from wear, but they can still be less problematical.

Can you retro-fit iron barrel stuff to AVL engines? Yes, but it's not straightforward.

The compression release procedure which tooseevee clearly explains is not helped on the Electra-X by the miserable little plastic lever on the left hand switch cluster, something like the old-fashioned Brit bike decomp handlebar lever will do a better job. This sort of thing.

https://www.baxtercycle.com/product/32-64408/

A.

[Blaqkfox]

Ah ok I’ll try it with the engine warmed up then!

I was reading about how some like to do it with the engine cold and some with the engine hot and others do it with the engine running apparently? I can’t imagine that’s east and mess free.

I thought they should still be able to rotate with the engine cold, no?

I’m glad to hear the “decompression” lever is functioning normally.

I was wondering if there’s a measurement intake from the rocker arms up top? The manual doesn’t mention the rockers at all except in the last instruction that says to “reinstall the rocker cover plates”. Note that this is separate from the tappet cover plate because they mention it separately. But it acts like the only adjustment is checked under the tappet cover so why would I remove the rocker covers?

I assume one would do this to check valve lash? It was stunning to me to read the pushrod adjustment was just checked from the tappet and said “zero clearance” instead of like “.002” or something with a feeler gauge. I guess that makes sense though- I imagine the rocker arms themselves have adjustment screws like normal to set valve lash? A similar setup to like a bmw pushrod engine? Only pushrods I ever did was on a r75/5 bmw last week.

[tooseevee]

Ah ok I’ll try it with the engine warmed up then!

I was reading about how some like to do it with the engine cold and some with the engine hot and others do it with the engine running apparently? I can’t imagine that’s east and mess free.

I thought they should still be able to rotate with the engine cold, no?

I was wondering if there’s a measurement intake from the rocker arms up top? The manual doesn’t mention the rockers at all except in the last instruction that says to “reinstall the rocker cover plates”. Note that this is separate from the tappet cover plate because they mention it separately. But it acts like the only adjustment is checked under the tappet cover so why would I remove the rocker covers?

I assume one would do this to check valve lash? It was stunning to me to read the pushrod adjustment was just checked from the tappet hand said “zero clearance” instead of like “.002” or something with a feeler gauge. I guess that makes sense though- I imagine the rocker arms themselves have adjustment screws like normal to set valve lash? A similar setup to like a bmw pushrod engine? Only pushrods I ever did was on a r75/5 bmw last week.

             No, there are no adjustment screws at the rocker arms.

             The only adjustment is behind the tappet cover, not under the rocker covers.

             There is no "valve lash" as such (like in engines where you set the lash dimension at the rocker end with a feeler gauge). The adjustments are made at the bottom end of the pushrods Cold. The adjustments on your Enfield are made with the piston at TDC such that the pushrods will spin with finger power but zero up & down movement. 

[Blaqkfox]

How very interesting. So there’s no valve lash to be set? It’s just built in? Like if the pushrods have no up and down play and rotate by finger than the valves are set to the correct “lash”? Weird.

Well if it’s supposed to be performed cold then mine are too tight, I can’t rotate them at TDC on the compression stroke. I’ll try one more time to get to exact TDc, I might be slightly off TDc, I have to apply so much force even with the decomp lever engaged I kept rolling over TDc. It got to the point I put a rod down the spark plug hole to try and get it as close as I could before it slipped over the top.

[tooseevee]

How very interesting. So there’s no valve lash to be set? It’s just built in? Like if the pushrods have no up and down play and rotate by finger than the valves are set to the correct “lash”? Weird.

Well if it’s supposed to be performed cold then mine are too tight, I can’t rotate them at TDC on the compression stroke. I’ll try one more time to get to exact TDc, I might be slightly off TDc, I have to apply so much force even with the decomp lever engaged I kept rolling over TDc. It got to the point I put a rod down the spark plug hole to try and get it as close as I could before it slipped over the top.

            Now I really don't know what to say any more.

            How can you be getting compression pressure if you have the spark plug out?

            With the plug out you can roll the engine over to exactly the place you want it.

[AzCal Retred]

"I thought they should still be able to rotate with the engine cold, no?"

A reasonable person would think so. The overall trend on this valve train appears to be to loosen up as the engine warms, generally a good thing. The game here is to keep the overall thrashing (and shock/impact loading, noise, etc.) to a minimum. 2CV says they should spin freely when cold. This is a safe bet, because other issues that come along with tight (not fully closed) valves don't happen. It's hard to burn a valve seat when the exhaust is actually seated.

Loose valve train clearances can hammer thru protective coatings on cam noses & tappet faces (if any...?), as well as not doing the alloy pushrods & adjusters any favors. IF your machine has a LOT of clatter and shock loads to the valve train, the "warm adjustment" strategy comes into play. A warm adjustment likely means that the valves are likely too tight at start up for the first 30 seconds to a minute, but then come into spec hopefully soon enough to not be an issue. In extreme cases too tight valves can adversely affect starting by not sealing as well and lowering compression.

Start with the "Idiot Proof" methodology of a cold adjustment. After the engine is thoroughly warm, recheck the clearances. For YOUR machine with YOUR components, settle on a methodology that works. If a "free spin" pushrod at cold is still OK when warm or hot, you are done. If it is clattery when warm, find a suitable compromise setting.

My red machine beat thru the tapped disc and cam nose coatings most likely because the valves were too loose too long. These components run in oil, so lube wasn't likely a factor. On the other hand, the valve seats are in good shape. The really good news is that it's only about $300 worth of parts to fix the tappets & cams, and you get to visit their friends the valves when you pull the top end off... It's all a series of reasonable compromises.

These old engines are pretty cool. You can do the normal adjustments whilst on the side of the road anywhere, armed with your fingers, eyes, some tappet wrenches, a plug wrench, a small screwdriver, maybe a bit of cellophane or clean paper to verify contact break and a twig with a pencil mark. Just like the folks that built them rode them every day.

PS - Try using the rear wheel to position the piston at TDC Compression. Machine up on the centerstand, 4th gear, bump the wheel in the normal direction of rotation by hand.

[Blaqkfox]

            Now I really don't know what to say any more.

            How can you be getting compression pressure if you have the spark plug out?

            With the plug out you can roll the engine over to exactly the place you want it.

Well what I did was kick it over till I felt compression, pull the plug, stick a rod down the hole, pull the decomp lever and then ease it up, but it’s still quite difficult, like to the point I have to apply so much force it then rolls over TDc and starts going back down. Not by much, but I can’t seem to get it at exactly TDC. Granted I’m a string bean of a man, and it is quite a lot easier without the spark plug installed, but it’s still difficult. With the plug in it’s extra difficult, it feels like trying to kick over a two stroke with the plug installed. So right now it’s eased up to just slightly before TDC, it’s gotta be super close, probably 5 degrees before TDC or less or so I’d guess, any more and it rolls right over. Is there an easily accessible timing mark I can look at to verify?

[Blaqkfox]

AZcal yeah that’s good, I’ll see what the play looks like when warmed up and try with the rear wheel rotation method.

It’s not really that loud, but it’s louder than any old engine I’ve ever worked on, louder than the sewing machine sound a cb750 makes, or say an old 80s bmw inline 6, basically louder than any rocker arm setup I’ve ever heard. Not by much though, and I hear these like to be noisy, I’m just not used to it so idk what it’s supposed to sound like so I figured I’d check my tappets just for peace of mind. It’s not so loud that I go “there’s a problem here” but it’s loud enough that I go “maybe I should check that to be sure everything’s ok”

And I’m still dealing with the pipes turning blue and all so maybe it’s running hotter than it should so things are getting looser than they should ?

[AzCal Retred]

I think you have an alloy barrel, that'll amplify the valve train noise. When I swapped from the iron barrel to alloy, valve train noise got noticeably louder. The engine is usually around 275F - 325F when running, so the "warm setting" strategy has merit. BUT there has to be enough valve train slop to start & run when cold too. You can see why the move to hydraulic valves was made on the UCEs. The rubber fin plugs likely helped some with noise, maybe...?

An EGT would be a very nice addition, or at least an infrared "heat gun" temp device to quantify exhaust gas temp for tuning. Better & more informative that worrying about low-buck Indian chromium colour. Keep after it!    - ACR -

[Adrian II]

You are trying to get TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke, aren't you? That way both cam lobes should be down and the valves both shut, assuming tappet clearances are within tolerance, therefore no valve spring pressure trying to force things.

The rocker covers are on top of the cylinder head, you wouldn't normally disturb them just for setting the tappet clearance, you just need that rectangular cover at the top of the crankcases off.

A.

[Blaqkfox]

Yes Adrian, on the compression stroke so the valves are closed and there’s no pressure on them. Still can’t rotate them. May just pull the rocker covers to verify since I’m not at exact TDC.

And yeah I have an IR gun, I’m reading around 280-285F on the cylinder head, like 315-ish on the flange for the header, and only about 150F midway down the header where it’s turning blue/purple

[AzCal Retred]

At TDC Compression both the tappets are riding on their cam base circles, maximum clearance. Only way pushrods won't rotate is if they are under compression loading. Loosen them up until they spin free at TDC, then you will know what you got. See what happens as the motor warms up, when/IF they get looser. Adjustment is easy.

IF the clearance is metal to metal, maybe the pushrods & valve springs under compression are imparting their stored energy to the crank, preventing you from getting a stable crank position. Go "loose" until this is sorted.

[Blaqkfox]

Yeah I’ll get it sorted tomorrow evening.

Let me ask y’all this, would it be a big deal if I ride the bike before my upsized pilot jet comes in?

In other words, does the pilot effect much fuel ratio when I’m riding the bike at half throttle and above?

I hear the pilot does still keep working throughout the throttle range but it really doesn’t do much to the air:fuel aside from idle of course.

Cuz I’ve got a 120 main jet now from work I’m going to install, and I’ve got a 17.5 pilot jet on the way, but it’s supposed to be beautiful this week and I want to ride it the 64 miles to work and back. It’s literally a straight shot on country back roads, so it’ll be richened up with the choke to warm up and then I’ll be off and riding half throttle and above the whole way there pretty much.

I mean I’ve done it for 400 mile now with the stock 15 pilot jet and a 118 main jet, so its probably fine, but I don’t wanna run it lean over and over again ya know.

I’ll be ordering a new exhaust tomorrow too and then I’ll have to tune for that I suppose but it seems everyone says to use that 120 and 17.5 setup so I hope that works or I’ll have to put it up and order a full jetting kit. Also how do I keep the new exhaust from discoloring while I tune it?

[AzCal Retred]

Main jet really doesn't do much until around 2/3rds of throttle opening.

Pilot is important up to maybe 1/4th throttle valve open, then the needle/needle jet is the main metering from there to maybe 2/3rds open. Mostly my Bullet is at an easy 1/4th - 1/3rd throttle at 50-55, flat ground, no wind. WOT is maybe for a few seconds getting away from a stop sign and back up to speed. Hills are climbed by downshifting until you find a gear and a speed combo that "runs free", not buzzing, not lugging, just has some reserve power to accelerate a bit if need be. Often on my 4 speed the gearing and available power determine road speed of a climb. You learn to like what you get.

You can screw in the air bleed needle a bit to richen up the off-idle circuit, maybe raise the needle one notch from center. You have the AVL, so you have a "normal" high(er) silicon alloy piston, so it's a lot tougher than the Velveeta ones the Iron Barrel Pre-Unit came with. These long stroke machines like light load and moderate RPM, no buzzing, no lugging. 55 on the road on my 500 Bullet is comfortable, no abnormal thermal or mechanical loads, your AVL is likely the same deal. "55 all day long, 65 for awhile, 80 one time" is a useful mantra. I can't see how you'd hurt it so long as it's "running free" and not being thrashed. Properly jetted it'll run better, but I'm not seeing any unsurmountable obstacles.

"Also how do I keep the new exhaust from discoloring while I tune it?"
Don't sweat the non-important stuff. If chrome cleaner won't make it "purdy" again, there's a universe of Hi-Temp paints out there...
Nobody will ever give you a gift card because your machine didn't show usage, and if you aren't using it...who cares how purdy it is?  A picture would be easier. Go ride & enjoy your 1940 time machine! 

 

[Blaqkfox]

Right so this is where things get interesting, my needle is already on the last (3rd) clip, so the needle is sitting at its highest, which should be the richest setting correct?

Well when it was all stock and the plug looked lean we decided to add two needle shim, effectively moving the needle one notch richer beyond its factory adjustability. The plug started to brown like a proper plug should after one ride around the block.

I long story short I change some things around based on how I rode the bike (I mainly use it at 3/4 throttle or more to cruse at 65mph down highway and curvy country back roads, can’t say I’ve ever heard it buzz but it only lugs if I don’t really gas it taking off in 1st or if I’m under shifting, I’ve had it to 70-75mph a few times, the previous owner mentioned he hit 86mph on it once. This AVL seems to cruise happily at 65mph). And after upsizing the main jet the bike feels like it bogs more than it should midrange and at wot, so I end up removing the shim on the needle and the midrange feels like it has more get-up-and-go now but wot still feels like it’s maybe got some bog to it, maybe not bog, not like when you’re trying to come out of 1st with not enough throttle and it’s lugging along, no, it’s more just like it feels it should have more acceleration to it than it does. So that’s got me thinking it’s actually too rich on the main jet. Or it’s just this bikes always run too lean. I can’t decide. 

Thing is, i know removing the needle shim helped just because lean=power but am I too lean? Moreover, does changing the main jet have any effect on the needle too? In other words, if I change my main jet will it effect my air:fuel midrange since the needle and main jet sorta work together? I mean I know the needles for mid range and the main jet is for more wot controls, but people always talk about re-jetting but hardly ever mention changing needle position in junction with a larger main jet, so do I need to do both or will just installing the larger main jet do the trick alone?

[Paul W]

To set the clearance, you’re trying to find the place where both cam followers are on the base circles of the cams, which occurs at TDC, plus a few degrees either side.

If the spark plug is in place, the engine certainly isn’t going to stay at TDC because compression will force the piston over. Using a rod in the spark plug hole is a recognised technique, so it’s not unusual to do that.

When checking the clearances are “nil” at cold I rotate the engine on the kickstarter whilst trying to rotate the pushrod with the end of my index finger. With this method, if there is any undue up/down clearance, you feel it come and go.

The clearances on Bullet engines get wider as they warm up, btw, which is why they’re set at cold.

[tooseevee]

You can screw in the air bleed needle a bit to richen up the off-idle circuit, maybe raise the needle one notch from center.

           I believe you'll find the mixture screw on the UCAL BS 29 CV carb is a fuel screw not an air screw. Screwing it in (CW) leans the mixture.

[AzCal Retred]

Good call 2CV!

2004-2008%20500cc%20Electra%20X.pdf ; Page 08-4:
Air-fuel mixture is adjusted by pilot screw (PS) and mixture becomes lean when PS is tightened (PS turned clockwise) and rich when it is loosened (PS turned anticlockwise).

[Blaqkfox]

yeah 2CV is correct on that.

I just posted in another thread but ill update this one too I guess since were talking about the same thing in here now...

So today I switched to a 17.5 pilot jet and a 120 main jet. To recap all I've done is delete the baffle in the header pipe.

The bike was hard to start until I found the right fuel screw setting of course.

I dialed things in, I found it was much easier to tune with the idle set pretty high, I could actually hear the revs increase then. And once it was in the right area I let it idle down and then I could distinguish the rev increase and decrease finally.

I too rich now though...





Granted I am about to buy a different exhaust since this one is all blue now. How do you tune it in without turning the new exhaust blue?

I think I like the sound of the Goldstar that H's sells the best. I might need a high flow K&N too yeah? I guess well see if it leans out a little with a less restrictive silencer in the mix next.

ALSO to add to this, I did check my tappets once warm.

I could now rotate the intake push rod once the bike was up to operating temp- around 280F, and it did have about 1mm of up and down play. Should I tighten it or leave it alone?

I could not rotate it when cold.

As for the exhaust pushrod... I could not rotate it when cold either, and even once warm it either wouldn't rotate at all or was very hard to rotate, with no up and down play. So maybe I should loosen that one? IDK it was hard to get a finger on it for the decompression release collar in the way...

actually come to think... I didn't put the darn thing at TDC so all this is bogus info... well crap... ill have to redo this...

[Blaqkfox]

but here's some video of the tappets, are they too noisy you think?

https://youtu.be/JZg5vJw17m0

[Adrian II]

I've heard worse. Loud tappets save valves! The procedure for correct adjustment is described in detail above.
 
If that is supposed to be on tick-over it's way too fast, about 700 rpm once the engine is warmed up is fine. With no rev-counter, matching something like this at around the one minute ten seconds mark will do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfBCBLu61iM

A.

[Blaqkfox]

hey thanks! yeah I had the idle turned up there and I think the choke might've still been halfway on as it was still warming up, she usually gets about 255-280F once fully warmed up, I was only about 245F there. Should've waited till it was all the way warm to film. having no tach does make setting the idle difficult for me. im used to having one lol so thanks!

[Blaqkfox]

So its been another, idk, 200-400 miles or so since its acted up, but today it did it again! ugh! I noticed while I was out riding there was a small hesitation every couple of seconds. it was so light I thought maybe I was mistaking the bumps in the road as a misfire/fuel cut/whatever it is. But nope. It started acting up real bad about a mile or so from home. straight bucking like a wild horse.

I have deduced its a fuel cut issue. I remembered to quickly shut the petcock off as it did it and pulled over immediately and looked and there was no fuel in my inline filter!

I opened the lid to the tank to find I still had about 1/4 - 1/2 a tank of fuel. I looked to see if something was blocking the petcock spigot and there was nothing. The fuel was right on the line where the prefilter screen turns into solid plastic for the "on" spigot but I had been running the bike on reserve so it wasn't a low fuel issue. The bike still did it no matter what setting I put the petcock on.

I also noted with the bike off on the side of the road flipping the petcock to the "off" position seemed to fill the inline filter with fuel- but backwards, as if it was sucking it out of the carb bowl.

So I thought "ah its the tank not venting causing a vacuum". so I opened the cap. Still no fuel would flow. Its the strangest thing. I wasn't far from home, so I shook the tank around to see if it made any difference. It didn't. I played with the petcock switch a bit more and eventually got some fuel flow. I got to my neighbors house and it started acting up again.

At this point the only thing I can figure is the petcock bowl has junk in it. or behind the selector. its the only thing I didn't clean. but the in-line filter looks clear still so im not getting dirty fuel atleast. whatever it is, it must be in the petcock blocking things.   

[AzCal Retred]

These old beasts are famous for tank rust & crud. Dump the tank & pull off the petcock, check the screens, disassemble & clean or at least blow back the petcock guts with WD40 or similar. I had to go to the Hitchcock's wide bore Alcohol petcock to get decent flow. Drop the carb bowl to verify that it's squeaky clean, to dust, no water BBs.

[Blaqkfox]

These old beasts are famous for tank rust & crud. Dump the tank & pull off the petcock, check the screens, disassemble & clean or at least blow back the petcock guts with WD40 or similar. I had to go to the Hitchcock's wide bore Alcohol petcock to get decent flow. Drop the carb bowl to verify that it's squeaky clean, to dust, no water BBs.

Will do. Probably just gonna order that one. Yeah I cleaned the tank with acetone cuz when I bought it the tank liner (red kote or Korean or something) somebody installed previously had failed and clogged everything up.

I wasn’t able to fully remove it either. Pretty sure there’s still some on the very top of the tank that I couldn’t get to with any tools I have here.

I’ve cleaned quite a few tanks in my days but this one flash rusted particularly quickly.

It has a good bit of rust already built back up. It isn’t horrid, but it’s pretty bad if I’m honest. I did notice last time I had the carb bowl off the fuel had a tinge of brown coloration to it from the rust, but it seems the filters are keeping anything big enough to clog a jet up out of the system so that’s good.

I’d like to take more vinegar to it to treat it but currently jb water weld is the only thing holding a tiny pin sized hole from leaking. And vinegar will eat jb weld.

I might eventually break down and order a new tank from hitchcocks but it’s like $500 by the time it’s all said and done.

Defiantly going to get a new petcock though.

What is the purpose of the bowl on the petcock?

[Paul W]

If it’s the type I’m thinking of the bowl has a mesh screen “filter” inside. If that’s blocked with debris…..

[tooseevee]

Defiantly going to get a new petcock though.

What is the purpose of the bowl on the petcock?

           One of the best things you could do now is to shitcan that cheap-ass petcock with the cheezy plastic filter bowl & put a decent petcock in your tank. You know best whether or not you should shell out for a brand new clean gas tank or not.

           Also- you can have an air bubble somewhere along the length of your fuel hose and STILL be flowing enough fuel to feed the AVL engine.

           I found that one way to purge the fuel line of that "air bubble" that drives you nuts is to slightly crack the float bowl drain plug with the petcock on OPEN & as it drips you might see the bubble disappear then close the drain plug. This will ease your mind about fuel flow "for a while" because the bubble might come back later.

           If the BS 29 doesn't have a drain plug (I think I remember it does not) then you could loosen the float bowl screws a tiny bit & accomplish the same thing. It might work, it might not.

[Adrian II]

An alternative is to look for a good used Bullet tank, maybe one off on old Redditch-built Interceptor, they haven't all been shipped back to the UK. Then you get your pick of 1/4" BSP petcocks. Later Indian-made ones may have an adapter screwed in for whatever metric petcock the factory was fitting that week, ask tooseevee about those! If you trust something shipped over from India, eBay has plenty.

Should you prefer to persevere with your existing gas tank, H's sell 2-hole-plate-to-1/4" adapters for the petcock of your choice.

A.

[Blaqkfox]

It’s got a metal bowl, but if you mean it’s got a plastic mesh filter inside the bowl then that could make a lot of sense of why I’m having issues. I never attempted to take the bowl off and look cuz I was itching to ride the bike after all the other work I did to it.

I have looked for forever for gas tanks, I was originally just going to replace it, but I couldn’t find the exact tank I have, and I’m very particular to the way this tank looks, I didn’t want a tank that looked different. The closest I ever found was one with a sticker instead of the raised emblem lettering, but it looked to be the same shape- which is what I was after mostly, I even tracked down some raised lettering emblems and paid like $100 for them so I could make it myself if need be lol I couldn’t find it on H’s so I just cleaned mine up and all, of course now I see it on H’s website. Maybe one day I’ll replace it, the paint is shit on mine and there’s a dent and it’s rusty inside and held together with welds and jb weld hidden under the knee grip lol

But yeah I’ll just get a new petcock, it’s a really generic design on this one fortunately so anything from like a kz550 or gsxr or sv or anything like that I can snag off eBay/Amazon should work just fine

[Paul W]

The critical thing is that the tap flows better than the flow through the main jet in the carburettor.

[tooseevee]

It’s got a metal bowl, but if you mean it’s got a plastic mesh filter inside the bowl then that could make a lot of sense of why I’m having issues. I never attempted to take the bowl off and look cuz I was itching to ride the bike after all the other work I did to it.

       Ah. Well, the one that came from the factory on my '08 had the petcock with the tiny plastic bowl with the almost microscopic threads that I NEVER managed to reseal from the very first time I took it off. No, I didn't cross thread it. It just continued to weep until I pulled it off, threw the filter away & resealed it back on permanently with SealsAll. It never leaked again.

        Then started the whole saga of "Let's Put A Different, Better Petcock On The Enfield". Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh..... [/img]

[Blaqkfox]

So I finally got around to taking the bowl off the petcock. I discovered it had a mesh filter inside it with a plastic removable bottom (for cleaning I assume cuz I tugged on it but it seemed in there solid). So I took the bottom off the filter and boy was it filthy. Lots of rust and disintegrated particles of the old tank liner. Sprayed it out with some brake parts cleaner (in hindsight probably not the best for plastics, should've used carb cleaner, oh well). Turned the petcock on and it seemed to flow pretty well. I did notice a hick up in the flow but it caught back up- I assume it was from the bowl refilling and the air displacing itself. At any rate im gonna attempt the 64 mile round trip to work and back on it tomorrow and well see how it goes! Hopefully its sorted now.

Im about to update my other thread about running lean because I think this might've been the issue all along- the petcock couldn't keep up with the flow rate to fill the bowl fully I mean. I checked the plug and it finally looks like it should! but more on that in my other thread...

[tooseevee]

So I finally got around to taking the bowl off the petcock. I discovered it had a mesh filter inside it with a plastic removable bottom (for cleaning I assume cuz I tugged on it but it seemed in there solid). So I took the bottom off the filter and boy was it filthy. Lots of rust and disintegrated particles of the old tank liner.

           I forget now: Have you pulled that whole petcock out of the gas tank & looked at the filter that's inside the gas tank?

[Blaqkfox]

           I forget now: Have you pulled that whole petcock out of the gas tank & looked at the filter that's inside the gas tank?

Yes that did get cleaned when I cleaned the tank

[Adrian II]

Poor fuel flow can from a rogue petcock can actually ruin and engine.

A.

[Blaqkfox]

Yeah I’m wondering if that was the majority of my issue the whole time! Glad I didn’t hurt this engine too bad, poor bike has seen hell these first 2k miles. I hear these engine are pretty tough though.

I rode the bike on my 64 mile trip to work today, yet to check the plug and see if it looks better, it did last time I checked, even with the failing petcock. So I bet it’s even better now, maybe even too rich now ha

But the bike felt so much more like I imagine it should. And my confidence is up.

The last maintenance thing on the list is the dreaded gasket around the starter on the secondary primary cover. I got the clutch holding tool from H’s now I just need another special puller tool and I should be good to do that repair. It’s not a large leak though so I’m trying to push it off until winter lol but that’s along time from now around here.

Oh and I should probably do something about the crankcase breather/PCV system everyone complains about. Mine seems to be working fine, I’m not sure what the complaints about it are

[tooseevee]

Oh and I should probably do something about the crankcase breather/PCV system everyone complains about. Mine seems to be working fine, I’m not sure what the complaints about it are

           Most of the complaints centered around the fact that sooner or later the crankcase breather "system" would splooge sumped oil all over the air filter making it impossible for the engine to get air and also dripping from the case all over the muffler or header pipe.

            Some of this probably happened because the catch can was a bit of a PITA to get at & drain so it filled up. That plus over filling at oil changes.

            The fix is simple & straight forward.

[Blaqkfox]

Well, the other day when I just rode around my town where its mostly 30mph zones and a little stretch of 55mph highway I checked the plug after my ride and it looked like how I imagine it should look- a little grey on the tip of the insulator.

But I did my 64 mile commute on it yesterday and pulled the plug today to check it out and its still white as can be on the tip...



heat range looks good judging by the ground strap. although I might try a one step colder plug, I hear that can really help. Or maybe this is just how its going to look/just the way the combustion burn happens on this engine... especially when spending a a long time between 40-60 mph, sometimes 65 for just a moment. It IS grey all the way down the insulator, doesnt look to be too rich or too lean, just right, its just the very tip of the insulator there thats arctic white still.

everything is pretty solid now- fuel is flowing as it should now, airbox gasket is new, exhaust gasket is new, there is still the ever so smallest exhaust leak between the silencer and header pipe, so maybe thats contributing. otherwise it should be fine.

only mods are PAV delete, hot pipe delete, and the BSA silencer. 120 main and a 17.5 pilot.

[Adrian II]

If it's running well, just call it a day.

Ordinary bathroom silicone RTV should seal any remaining exhaust leaks. No fancy automotive grade needed.

A.

[Paul W]

The side electrode has some carbon on it for almost half its length and so it doesn’t look too weak by my thinking.

[Blaqkfox]

yeah Im just calling it good at this point. the ceramic down in there has a good grey to it and so does the body base ring there around the electrode. It runs great, temps look good, still curious to me why the tip of the plug stays white, but whatever. its been 800 miles now and it hasn't blown up or overheated anymore or shown any signs of pinging, so im gonna call that good lol if anything I think it might be a hair on the rich side, but ill take it.

[Blaqkfox]

Sorry to revive an old thread but im still dealing with the issue. Its ever so persistent now it seems. I have the old bowl style petcock...



and the little filter inside it keeps clogging up with fine rust particles from the tank. This is after I half ass cleaned it, I should've taken a before photo...



Im wondering if I can just remove that filter inside the bowl, normally I wouldn't but since I have that in-line filter to the carb and all I figure I can do away with it right?

Cant really clean the tank, I cleaned it awhile back and it still got rusty a little. I had to patch the tank with some JB water weld since there was a pin hole that we tried and tried to weld but the tanks metal is too thin, and vinegar or anything I would use to clean the tank will eat the JB weld, so im just living with it if possible, don't really want to buy a new tank if I can avoid it tbh.

Obligatory pics from my trip on Highway US129 aka "The Dragon" (this might've been on the Skyway I can't remember)

[AzCal Retred]

Do a flow test. The petcock has to flow more than the engine uses. My anemic 350 uses up a float bowl full in about 200 yards if I forget to open the petcock...   ...but it refills in under 2 seconds after I open it back up.

I think 2CV suggested a refill rate of a cup in 30 seconds, that seems right. My Hitchcock's "methanol" wide bore petcock easily does that but you lose reserve function. I don't care about reserve, but I do like the petcock to allow my inline filter to "burp" any trapped air.

It looks like your fuel tap bolts on, so it'll likely be harder to find a higher flow replacement unless you have a bolt on pipe nipple tap plate to allow use of the old school tap. I believe H's has this adapter?

I had luck in my tank with "OSPHO", a hardware store phosphating compound for rust control. I used detergent and a garden hose to get the gas residue, then Naval Jelly to eat the rust, then another wash & rinse cycle(s) to get out the Naval Jelly, then taped up the tap and added maybe a cup of OSPHO thru the fuel cap hole. I sloshed it about the tank to coat all inner surfaces several times over maybe 15 minutes, then dumped it out and let the sun bake out any liquid over the next 2-3 days. The OSPHO changes the surface rust to a bluish-black coating bonded (so far! ) to the tank metal.

After everything was dry, I reassembled and refuelled. I haven't had any "rust dust" or crumbs since in my filter or float bowl.
OSPHO was cheap and chemically bonds with the iron in the rust. I didn't want a plastic sheet inside that could later peel off. You can always "rinse & repeat" if it starts re-rusting in a few years, OSPHO comes by the gallon; you'll have plenty left. My treatment is still good after 3 years.

[Paul W]

My 350 Bullet Electra has the older style fuel tap without a bowl filter, although it does have a strainer around the stand pipe for the reserve function. The bike came with a paper type filter in the fuel line, which I think is standard and that will trap any fine debris.

It’s this type, which I’m sure will be sold by Hitchcock’s.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384479051691?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=P2WN_HmLRA2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=_mH0__DERQe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Adrian II]

It looks like your fuel tap bolts on, so it'll likely be harder to find a higher flow replacement unless you have a bolt on pipe nipple tap plate to allow use of the old school tap. I believe H's has this adapter?[/qoute]

Sure enough, part # 92554, don't forget the seal and screw kit for it, imaginatively numbered 92554A. The adaptor is threaded ¼" BSP, so any decent petcock the right size will do, the methanol type AzCal refers to (PTAP2) won't dissolve in the ethanol in your gas and shouldn't give any fuel starvation issues if correctly operated. 

A.

[Blaqkfox]

Oh the flow is fine. The bike does perfectly fine until this petcock clogs up every couple of weeks.

I don’t think finding a replacement would be hard? A bolt on style petcock like this is pretty standard on older Japanese bikes. They’re like $12 on Amazon. Just got one for my cm400 before I sold it and for my buddy’s kz550 and we keep them in stock at the shop for all sorts of dirt bike applications and whatnot.

I know the gasket is the same exact one too because I robbed the old one off my cm400 to seal the petcock hole when I cleaned my tank. They don’t have a bowl on them though they do have a pre screen tube that goes up vertically into the tank. They make all decent lengths of those though so fitment shouldn’t be an issue I don’t think.

I imagine removing the pre screen in the bowl would basically make it the same as one without it. I think I’ll try removing the pre screen, I’ve got the in line filter so it should be fine

[Ex-gasman]

Check the vent in the gas tank filler cap! If you want the gas to flow out, air has to flow in. This has caught me out with more than one Indian Royal Enfield.

A.

I have a similar problem, I had a look but can't see where the vent is