[Ste]

Morning all,

I've just moved across from the Hitchcocks forum as I felt I may have a bit more freedom to discuss products and companies etc over here?

I've got a 2006 Electra that I've had for a year now and done a few hundred miles on, recently took part in the Hull Distinguished Gentleman's Ride, but other than that not done a lot with. She's woefully underpowered, a bit tired, and leaks like a leaky thing trying really hard in a leak-off contest.

Just under 10k miles and just run out of MOT.

So with that, and having read about imminent crank failure etc etc, I've decided to take her off the road and give it a full spruce up with a view to never actually doing all that many road miles on it again.

The plan was to make it as powerful and strong as possible, and get it entered in some races. Having done a bit more digging into racing viability, I'm thinking now the plan is to get it stripped down to as little as it needs for a basic daytime MOT, and do all the necessary engine work to eek out some ponies and get it entered into things like Malle Mile, Dirt Diggers, beach races etc, for a laugh if nothing else. I ride trials currently and have had bigger and faster road bikes in the past, I'm hoping the little Enfield can continue to scratch the old school cool itch for a few years yet!

How it looked when I brought it home:
https://ibb.co/cc7g22p

How it sat at Hull DGR:
https://ibb.co/SRct2CQ
https://ibb.co/1Q54WP2

How it looks now, braced bars fitted and partially stripped:
https://ibb.co/sP0QD9J
https://ibb.co/vz2YMvn

I'm thinking:
- Smallest battery possible if not battery-less
- Trials kit, ish. 21" front wheel, knobblies, bash plate etc.
- No indicators. Possibly even remove the casquette and fit a number board. Leaving only brake light and horn, need to look into MOT and construction & use etc etc...yawn
- Lanyard cut-off and relocate ignition switch
- Sprag clutch removal and either blank it or source a humpless inner primary. It's borked anyway and I've already removed the rest of the starter stuff.
- Better crank...research still being done.
- Port work.
- Cams from the redditch Bullet - that's a thing isn't it?
- Full clutter removal, centre stand, clutch switch, sidestand switch, decompressor, absolutely anything not needed shall be removed.
- Big bore if it's worth doing?

Lots of research still to do, lots of head scratching and late nights, but looking forward to getting cracked on.

Shout out to Adrian for all his help already 

Thanks

[Adrian II]

So where were we? 

What I WOULD recommend is to keep the bits needed to put it back to stock if you have to. I have a rather stalled Street Tracker project on the go with my current Electra-X, but all the stock tinware has been put aside rather than junked.



I posted a bit on H's forum about going battery-less with one of these models, it's probably not possible with the Electra-X alternator, unlike the iron barrel Bullets, but there are other ways of doing it.

Replacing the RE casquette with something more traditional in the fork yokes/triple tree department will need the complete set from the Indian RE 350 Thunderbird model. I can give you the part numbers as well as someone in the UK who can probably source them for you, though be careful to get the early top yoke for the threaded fork tops. I think this forum also has at least one active member actually based in India, which might help.

Check your PMs.

A.

[AzCal Retred]

The Electra was the Pre-Unit Swan Song. You have the best bits - 5-speed, front disc, gear oil pumps, electronic ignition. But it's still basically a 1940's design. A LOT was learned about making HP over the last 80 years. This is a Non-Unit-Construction machine, it'll always be heavier than a modern unit construction one. Spending massive amounts of cash will yield a powerful but still heavy, marginally "chassied" machine. As is, it's a wonderful window into the 1940's riding experience. It'll never be a KLR650 or the like, but you can spend an awful lot of money trying to make it be like one. A powerful engine in a heavy, marginally dirt-worthy chassis is a bad combo. Save the effort & cash. Way cheaper to get a used, stock, 45HP+ 650 Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki enduro, it'll be more functional & faster. This machine has early-days street geometry, lots of "reel-iron" weight and little suspension travel, so it'll try to hurt you if you flog it. These machines really resent being flogged anyway unless you have spent a BOATLOAD of cash inside the engine. There isn't a stroker crank available, and the "nice" custom H's unit will set you back $1,600 USD. There isn't really a point to the better crank unless you are going to spin-up this long stroke engine to try for HP, and then you'll need a better head, carb, throw away that lovely $300 trials exhaust pipe, a beefed up clutch, etc. You'll have the world's most powerful trials plonker...and also rendered it useless for that application. The stock 500cc will suffice at the low speeds it can reasonably operate at, and is smoother than a larger, more powerful engine during plonking sessions.

As to your list:
The centerstand is a very functional component and weight isn't really an issue - leave it on.
A small LiPo battery is the low hanging fruit here.
The Trials kit will be a fun & functional add on. The conical rear footpeg mount brackets are a handy place to mount a second set of pegs for stand-up stuff. You'll need to toss the right box to make room for the exhaust, and the left box to make room for your leg when standing.
Just run the stock crank to failure, but it'll likely outlast you whilst in use as an off-road potterer.
Just a thought, but 4.00 x 19 Trials Universal will fit underneath that lovely alloy accessory front fender from H's, and is about the same OD as a 3.00 x 21. These machines have a lot of weight on the front wheel, so maybe a better option? A nice set of shocks with appropriate springs and you likely have all the off road capability it can deliver.
The accessory sprocket adapter will provide easy final gearing changes:
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/18715?ref_page=Electra%20X
PART No. 92629 ; REAR BRAKE DRUM, 4 VANES (1986on), MACHINED FOR BOLT ON SPROCKETS ; £90.00

[Ste]

The Electra was the Pre-Unit Swan Song. You have the best bits - 5-speed, front disc, gear oil pumps, electronic ignition. But it's still basically a 1940's design. A LOT was learned about making HP over the last 80 years. This is a Non-Unit-Construction machine, it'll always be heavier than a modern unit construction one. Spending massive amounts of cash will yield a powerful but still heavy, marginally "chassied" machine. As is, it's a wonderful window into the 1940's riding experience. It'll never be a KLR650 or the like, but you can spend an awful lot of money trying to make it be like one. A powerful engine in a heavy, marginally dirt-worthy chassis is a bad combo. Save the effort & cash. Way cheaper to get a used, stock, 45HP+ 650 Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki enduro, it'll be more functional & faster. This machine has early-days street geometry, lots of "reel-iron" weight and little suspension travel, so it'll try to hurt you if you flog it. These machines really resent being flogged anyway unless you have spent a BOATLOAD of cash inside the engine. There isn't a stroker crank available, and the "nice" custom H's unit will set you back $1,600 USD. There isn't really a point to the better crank unless you are going to spin-up this long stroke engine to try for HP, and then you'll need a better head, carb, throw away that lovely $300 trials exhaust pipe, a beefed up clutch, etc. You'll have the world's most powerful trials plonker...and also rendered it useless for that application. The stock 500cc will suffice at the low speeds it can reasonably operate at, and is smoother than a larger, more powerful engine during plonking sessions.

As to your list:
The centerstand is a very functional component and weight isn't really an issue - leave it on.
A small LiPo battery is the low hanging fruit here.
The Trials kit will be a fun & functional add on. The conical rear footpeg mount brackets are a handy place to mount a second set of pegs for stand-up stuff. You'll need to toss the right box to make room for the exhaust, and the left box to make room for your leg when standing.
Just run the stock crank to failure, but it'll likely outlast you whilst in use as an off-road potterer.
Just a thought, but 4.00 x 19 Trials Universal will fit underneath that lovely alloy accessory front fender from H's, and is about the same OD as a 3.00 x 21. These machines have a lot of weight on the front wheel, so maybe a better option? A nice set of shocks with appropriate springs and you likely have all the off road capability it can deliver.
The accessory sprocket adapter will provide easy final gearing changes:
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/18715?ref_page=Electra%20X
PART No. 92629 ; REAR BRAKE DRUM, 4 VANES (1986on), MACHINED FOR BOLT ON SPROCKETS ; £90.00

Some good points well made, thanks for your input.

I don't want to fall into the trap of chucking megabucks at the bike pointlessly - so a degree of sensibility does need to be maintained.

I suppose when I break it down, the principle objective is to get it to a point where it's absolutely the best it can be as an engaging trail hack, have it look the part, and have enough about it to participate in some fun events (where a not insubstantial number of the bikes participating are somewhat inappropriate anyway) and not feel like it's struggling to pull the skin off a rice pudding all the time.

Taken onboard, cheers

[richard211]

Interesting in India, the base model UCE bullet 350 still used an AC DC electrical system similar to the Iron Barrel bullets it did not have the electric start and was sold as a kick start model. The stator is interchangeable with the AVL 3 phase stator.

 Stator part number 570869/A has mounting hole which are having 5mm mounting holes and part number 147055/A has 6mm mounting holes.

 The single phase regulator for the above mentioned single phase stator is 592798/B . You could use any off the shelf single phase Regulator / Rectifier.
 
 If I was doing this conversion, I would use the AC/DC stator and then use the CDI unit 500910/A and ignition coil 581027/C from the AVL 350 Machismo /Thunderbird. Wire up the CDI unit to the existing Pulse coil on the alternator and the power for the CDI unit is directly wired to one of the phases of the stator. You will not need a battery to run the engine. To shut down the engine, you could wire up the kill switch to the CDI unit or use the de-compressor. No other wiring is required to run the engine.  Then to keep the wiring for the brake light I would wire it using the second phase off the stator ( run the brake light using AC power instead of DC the light will flicker because it's AC).

 Another common crank shaft modification done in India is to add more mass to the crank shaft. That way it allows the engine to chug along at very low rpm. The down side is the engine does not rev up very quickly. To do this essential a thick flat bar is taken and is shaped into a circle that is then press fitted onto the existing flywheels and welded in place. It's then turned down to size on a lathe machine.

I am attaching a few photos of the last crankshaft I did. I am currently working on a spare crankshaft which is actually from my 350 AVL engine and I am increasing the mass of the flywheel and also increasing the stroke of the engine and replacing the AVL connecting rod pin to that from the Iron Barrel engine. I will do a write on it once I am done with it.
 

[AzCal Retred]

R211 - Great info, interesting material all. I'm looking forward to your write up! - ACR -

[Adrian II]

Interesting suggestions. Of course there's more than one way to skin this particular cat, I've PM'd Ste about this and we'll see if it comes to fruition.

We haven't even looked at this option yet!



A.

[richard211]

 A Magneto ignition on AVL crankcases does seem like very interesting option, maybe to cut down on weight, since the Alternator and Electric start components are not required. One could use a 5 speed inner clutch case from the Electra/ Thunderbird kick start model part number 147295/B and clutch outer case part number 145958 from the bullet Sixty-5.

[Adrian II]

I should point out my picture actually has a set of iron barrel E/S crankcases modified to use the AVL timing cover, no reason I have to be the only one doing this. You can use Electra-X crankcases, but that's a fair bit of extra machining to reinstate the idler gears and sort out a mag mount.

The Electra-X crank has a screw-threaded portion on the drive side, inboard of the alternator, for a nut to hold the engine sprocket on just like the old pre-alternator Redditch Bullets. With a magneto fitted, if no alternator were required you could simply cut the main shaft back the threaded portion and fit the chain cases off a 1953-55 Bullet, assuming you could find a set.

A.