Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum

Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: Dallastheologian on June 28, 2011, 02:11:52 am

Title: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: Dallastheologian on June 28, 2011, 02:11:52 am
I've got 50 miles on my new B5 and the only thing I find tough is the shift from 3rd to 4th. It seems like I end up in neutral more often than not and then when I go to shift up I am magically in 5th :o. I think this has been addressed on the board before but any advice because this is my first bike and I don't want to be doing damage to it or the transmission.

thanks all.
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: Ice on June 28, 2011, 02:20:10 am
Not uncommon with a new machine.

 Until it is broken in, to minimize false neutrals I would recommend holding upward on the shift lever till after the clutch lever is completely released.

Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: Dallastheologian on June 28, 2011, 02:31:24 am
Good, I wanted to make sure I wasn't destroying the transmission.
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: Ice on June 28, 2011, 02:59:35 am
Tough to do.
 IMHO these transmissions are of rugged simplicity with just the right amount of technical sophistication. Overbuilt for the task at hand in my estimation. Come to think of it I have never heard of one breaking,,ever.
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: SimonT on June 28, 2011, 03:34:32 am
Yep there are a few threads around discussing this...

It will get better as you and the bike learn to ride in harmony :)
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: Kevin Mahoney on June 28, 2011, 03:37:52 am
This problem is 99.9% technique. You must shift positively and fully. They have a fairly long throw. We have had several complaints about this and in each and every case where we got the chance to ride the bike we could not make it mis-shift. We also put the same customers on known to be good shifting  bikes and they missed the same shifts. We also have found a high number of these customers are using new boots or other footwear that does not allow them to feel the shift. You cannot do any damage to the transmission and yes we are not aware of any breaking. We have had the occasional shift fork replacement but never the transmission as such. Ice has pretty good advice and be careful that your clutch is adjusted correctly. Other than that make sure you can feel your shifts and have fun
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: singhg5 on June 28, 2011, 04:55:55 am
DallasT:

Here is a good discussion in this link on techniques for shifting gears in new bikes, that tend to go into false neutral between gears -

Pull the clutch lever ALL the way in.
Shift gear up ALL the way up
Keep the gear lever lifted UP and while holding it up, release the clutch.
Then let go of gear lever.

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,10578.0/all.html
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: whoguy on June 28, 2011, 06:34:13 am
Hi all,

I know there has been alot of discussion on this one. I just want to put down my thoughts. I find on my C5, if I shift by fully levering up from 3rd to 4th, more often than not, it goes into neutral, the neutral I suspect between 4th and 5th. If I gently tap down by half, it goes into 4th.

What I find works best and always results in good shifts into 4th is to;

1) Pull clutch fully in,
2) Lever up with your foot, but stop as soon as you feel (on your boot) and hear it go into 4th gear.
3) Release clutch.

I find you don't have to lever up fully to the end of the shift levers travel to get it into 4th.

Btw, 4th gear is the only where I've had trouble getting into.

Cheers
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: Maturin on June 28, 2011, 02:49:43 pm
If the shifting is still tough after some time, make use of the possibility to adjust the footpeg as well as the shift lever. Bigfoots need room  ;D
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: barenekd on June 28, 2011, 03:12:54 pm
Mine used to miss that one rather regularly. I always attributed it to the fact that it seemed like a longer throw than the rest and I never quite pulled the shift lever up far enough. It improved considerably as the miles went on. I rarely miss it any more.
2200 miles and climbing. Loving them all!
Bare
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: Superchuck on June 28, 2011, 04:53:44 pm
I've been riding my AVL for about six months now and I still miss-shift at least once a ride.  It's 100% operator error though, and I think even someone coming from a crotch rocket with 'snick, snick' performance shifting would find it hard to get the feel of these bikes.  It's the quirkiness that makes them great, and when the rider and the bike's personality match up that's when the magic happens  8)
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: rbelyk on June 28, 2011, 05:12:28 pm
I was having a lot of problems shifting with my new C5
I tried all the suggestions here on the forum and they did help but last friday going home from work I missed almost every shift
my bike is due for its first service in 150km but I decided to do a quick and dirty oil change on Sat.
I used regular oil as thats what the dealer said was in it. it will get full synthetic when it gets serviced
but man what a difference in the shifting, I took it out for an hours ride and only had 2 missed shifts which I attribute to my error, I only had one coming to work this morning
there have been a lot of recommendations on here to change your oil before the first service and I heartily agree!
I can't wait till she gets full synth in.
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: Ducati Scotty on June 28, 2011, 05:58:13 pm
I've got over 6000 miles and hit false neutrals here more than anywhere else, of course I'm usually being lazy with the shift lever ;) 

Proper technique should get you along.  Check your clutch adjustment, it's in the owner's manual and easy to set.  Also, preload the shift lever with a little pressuse before you pull in the clutch.  It helps a lot.

It should get better as you break in and get some more oil changes done.

Scott
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: billy2sheds on June 28, 2011, 09:05:24 pm
I find i hit false neutrals on the down shift never on the upshift.
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: GreenMachine on June 28, 2011, 09:19:16 pm
false neutral on the down shift before entering a curve can get a bit hairy....keep your hands on the brake there fellow.. ;D
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: Okie Enfield on June 28, 2011, 11:11:06 pm
GM is right on that one! Had a squirrly ride the other day when i powered into a round about missed the down shift and almost curbed it before I got her back in gear! Of course was riding a bit fast for the conditions and no one to blame but meself.  ::) I hardly ever have a false neutral shifting up threw the gears, mainly down from 4th to 3rd. Has gotten better as I break the bike and rider in.  ;)
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: olhogrider on June 29, 2011, 05:28:08 am
I never miss a shift going down, only up and only when riding slow. I figured that my weight was helping with the downshift but not the up. That could be cured by that heel/toe shifter I saw in the Indian video review of the C5. Wonder why enfieldgear doesn't sell them.
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: GreenMachine on June 29, 2011, 03:26:45 pm
I tend to get lazy and I ride two other bikes which throws me off/excuses excuses ...If I wear my soft sneakers vice boots /excuses excuses ...I was heading off a 2 lane country road into a small rural sub division which I go through  on the way home back from a ride..Approaching the right turn in, I start to down shift to make the turn in either 2nd or 3 rd gear using engine braking as the process...Yeah I miss the downshift and got a false neutral and had to slowed the bike rather quickly before entering the turn radius. I found myself a bit to far in the turn..Luckily their wasn't a vehicle siting there waiting to come out...Done it a hundred times before with never a hiccup and in gear ready to come out of the turn....I have to say my false neutrals are due to taking it for granted and being lazy with the foot shifter....
So shit happens and its all in the details...I think I'll try to be a bit more focus and in tune with Green Machines clicky 5 speed.. ;D
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: olhogrider on June 29, 2011, 03:59:24 pm
I figure downshifting is so you will be in the powerband when you need to accelerate. When I first learned to drive, an old guy (probably my current age) asked "Which costs more to replace, brakes or engine?" He went on to explain that engines are designed for producing power, not drag. Since he was an engineer with a hobby of old Italian cars, I figured he knew what he was talking about. After 2 Alfas, 2 Ducatis and a Vespa I still have a love-hate relationship with all things Italian.
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: GreenMachine on June 29, 2011, 04:13:38 pm
Get that picture out of your head of Green Machine leaning as far as the right as possible and knee dragging and downshifting at 3k RPM..... ;D..Thats more up your alley out their on their on the west coast...heeeeeeeeeeee..Its more of a subtle easy downshift with just enough powerband to keep things moving in the right direction... :o
Title: Re: The shift from 3rd to 4th
Post by: Ducati Scotty on June 29, 2011, 06:45:45 pm
Exactly, keep the bike in the right gear so that when you let out the clutch the engine is at an operable RPM, not lugging or screaming.  It also seems to help to let the clutch out in every gear, even if it's just partially.  Spinning the tranny makes it so you hit fewer false neutrals and also don't downshift more than you thought, ending up in too low a gear and getting pushed over the bars ;)

That said, I use engine braking all the time in all my cars and bikes.  It doesn't have to be drastic.  200K miles on my Honda Civic, it can't be that bad for the engine.  And it drives me nuts when I have to drive my wife's car with an automatic transmission through the hills near home.

Scott