[Mike flanagan]

Hey forum,im trying to dismantle forks for rebuild.My old instruction book mentions removing the oil seal housing to dismantling the forks.Is this a collar or part of the fork lower?It seems like its cast as a single piece.Ive yet to crack this fork (heat)after many nights.Any good advice?thanks

[Adrian II]

If there were a separate oil seal holder it would screw onto the alloy slider, but the parts book for the very late 500 twin shows Clipper-type forks WITH NO OIL SEALS! Therefore no oil seal holder... 

https://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/partsbook-pages/2790

Looking at the state of that fork stanchion I'd say it is too far gone for reclaiming with hard chrome plating. I'm guessing the other one looks as bad.

If you don't want to fit an Indian Bullet front end, and the original Meteor Minor fork legs part # 43561 are currently unavailable, there MIGHT be another option. The parts book for the 250 Clipper of the same period shows what looks like an identical set of forks, and new stanchions for these ARE available under part # 39723

https://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/partsbook-pages/380

I would strongly suggest you ask Hitchcocks' if a pair of 39723 fork stanchions will fit, though it might be an idea to get the sliders off first and see what they're like inside, if they're too worn or corroded (no oil seal, remember) just go for India's finest and don't throw good money after bad. Perfect excuse for a 7" TLS or disk brake front wheel to give your braking a chance.

A.

[Mike flanagan]

separation is the hard part now.These are really stuck.Its bikeweek in 3 weeks,ill check there.Even old bullet fronts are scarce here in central Florida.

[Lorenzo]

Mike -
As Adrian says, these forks do not have an oil seal or housing ; effectively, they are just pogo sticks....
Do you have any up/down movement at all between the slider and the stanchion/inner tube ?
If you can get any movement , the slider will then be held by the lower spring post (item #33 in the parts listing 2790). This is an interference fit in the slider and you need to heat the slider around the rear stud (which threads into it)  to release it. The stud is the rear one at the bottom of the slider directly beneath the fork stanchion  (fixing the wheel spindle cap and is item #27 in the parts listing). Heat the slider, tap the stud upwards toward the top of the fork leg (but careful with those threads !)
Hope this is clear - simple to do, but difficult to describe....
350  Clipper of similar year has 43561 stanchions the same as yours; I assume 250 ones mentioned by Adrian are different in some way, but Hitchcocks will confirm whether they are suitable.

[Adrian II]

It will all depend on the state of those sliders if you can free them off intact.

Used Bullet front ends don't exactly grow on trees (unless someone has had a spectacularly amusing crash), but it could be a case of India to the rescue. If you don't mind taking a while searching for good deal from Indian suppliers on eBay for new forks, wheels, etc, there are some good deals. New forks for $110.20, free shipping from India? https://www.ebay.com/itm/404721542152 . Here's what looks like a good used Bullet front wheel, already in the USA: https://www.ebay.com/itm/235191834626 .

A.






I know there are US bike breakers who sometimes sell low-mileage used Indian Bullet spares on eBay.

[AzCal Retred]

I'd go for the India-sourced complete front end, preferably disc equipped, with triple tree & master cylinder attached. If it ain't gonna be stock, it might as well be functional. Saves looking for those "extra necessary bits" too.

[Lorenzo]

AzCal Retred -

If it ain't gonna be stock, it might as well be functional. Saves looking for those "extra necessary bits" too.

I suspect,  the musings of one who has never attempted such a conversion.
This takes no account of :
Meteor Minor has 17" wheels front and rear ; Indian Bullet etc. will be 19" wheel.
Indian Bullet forks may be longer overall - not sure about this.
MM500 front fender/mudguard will no longer fit, and I'm quite unsure how you would get over this. You could end up with a bike that looks worse than "odd".
MM500 has rear wheel speedo.drive ; Indian Bullet has front wheel driven speedo. You would have to decide which to stick with, and make up some means of blanking off/removing the redundant angle drive.
Some of the "extra necessary bits" you may need to source would include tyre/tube/rim tape if you kept the Indian Bullet rim, and custom spokes/rim and a wheel rebuild if you retained the original 17" rim size.
A change to forks and 19" front wheel will also almost certainly mess with the static (chassis) height, meaning your centre stand will now be too short to work properly. (DAMHIK)
The point I'm making is that what appears to be a simple fix may not be in actuality.....
And anyway, what happened to :
"The question I have is what's the point of spending all that $$$ restoring & then "up-modifying" that 500 twin?" in your earlier post ?

[AzCal Retred]

The triple tree/steering stem of the Bullet should bolt right onto the MM frame. The disc brake forks depending on where you get them could be of the unthreaded type and you just slide the forks up to maintain geometry. Hitchcock's has spoke kits to lace a 17" rim to a RE hub if you get the threaded forks. There are no major unsolvables here.

As far as changing your mind, if Flanagan's forks are thoroughly shot/rotted and there aren't any replacements then you either part out the bike, pay a skilled machinist to replicate them, or adapt something close. It's sounding like the forks are too thrashed to reasonably restore. Earlier it just sounded like just corroded/pitted stanchion tubes.

Plans change in the face of new information. Improvise, adapt overcome is the guideline. $3000 for custom one-off hand-machined stanchions sound like a deal breaker. Adrians idea of the Clipper forks may be an option - Hitchcock's will know if it's workable.

This was your observation: As Adrian says, these forks do not have an oil seal or housing ; effectively, they are just pogo sticks....  There are ports on the fork tubes and the spring guides/damper rods look like there's some attempt at rebound damping. But I didn't see any seals either...?

H's carry the 1958 MM tube sets (47032) and will tell you if they interchange. The earlier MM forks use an oil seal, maybe RE cheaped out at the end of the run. Sliders and tubes (IF they interchange) will be about $600-$800 by the time the dust settles and they show up at Flanagans. Free shipping on a complete Bullet front end might be only $300 - $500. It all hinges on what Hitchcock's says about parts interchangeability for a "stock appearing" machine and the size of Flanagans wallet and interest.

[Adrian II]

I agree that resto-modding rather than restoring might be the only practical way to get this beast back on the road.

Lorenzo, you've seen the pictures of my 350 Bullet, it is a 1961 model, originally with the same 17" rims as used on the MM. A previous owner converted it to off-road specification and had a 21" front rim and 18" rear rim laced onto the old hubs. This does indeed raise the bike overall, though more so than would be the case for this MM if Mike were to fit a 19" wheel. The PO's solution was to have alloy blocks welded onto the centre/center stand to restore clearance. I kept these wheels (or at least the rear one and the 21" rim from the front but with a different set of forks which raised the front end a little further (more on that shortly) which meant that even the alloy blocks weren't enough. The answer then was to fit an Indian Bullet centre stand (along with the Indian side stand for personal preference, Hitchcocks have a kit with all the parts for this).

You can get various length fork stanchions. The Redditch factory fitted 1" longer for 17" wheel models, MOST Indian forks will be the correct length for 19" wheels. However my 350 came with a very early set of Enfield India disk brake forks which were shorter even than normal Indian Bullet forks. Fitting a set of the latter resulted in the fitting of the Indian center stand above.

Yes, the 17" front mudguard/fender won't fit over a 19" wheel, so use the fender and stays for a 19" wheel. The rear fender has more clearance, I think, so converting that to an 18" rim should be feasible. An 18" rim on the rear and 19" rim on the front will give a far better choice of tires. For the redundant speedo drive boss, new speedometer drives from India are cheap enough, I'm using one as a blanking plug! Probably best to stick with the rear to drive the instrument. If Mike still has the original Smiths chronometric speedometer it will need a rebuild most likely, and it can be re-calibrated to suit any increase in rear tire size while it's being overhauled.

Azcal, (and Mike) a word of caution regarding top yoke/triple trees, I suspect the existing ones are probably re-usable. If not, beware of fitting a post 2002 Indian triple tree as they changed the steering stops and steering lock. Trying to fit one in a Redditch frame does this.



Also be careful with forks from India as plain top versions won't fit screw-in top yokes. The set I linked to earlier should be fine.

A.

[Lorenzo]

Whoa, easy there guys...
I think there is a danger of losing sight of the OP's original problem, which was merely rusty fork stanchions.
Re all or any of the above suggestions : well yes, anything is possible with the right amount of ability/time/money/inclination but we should not be in too much of a hurry to spend Mike's money.
Let's wait to hear if he succeeds in getting the sliders off the stanchions, finding out what state the sliders are in, and what Mr. H says about suitability/availabilty of replacement stanchions.

[Adrian II]

I think we were looking at worst case scenario. Ideally the Clipper stanchions would be compatible and the sliders could be re-used, which saves a whole load of re-configuring, but I agree we'll have to wait and see what Mike is presented with on both of those fronts. If they're a no-go, at least there's an alternative strategy to get this bike back on the road.

A.

[Adrian II]

Mike,

this might be of interest if only for the pictures.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/335269807438

A.

[Mike flanagan]

im painting and soaking the forks in my favorite fluid.I am going to a friends next week,who has a large press.We are going to squeeze them a bit,see what happens.Ill take photos.

[AzCal Retred]

Broke is broke, right?    Nowhere to go but up. Good Luck!