Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: Joel-in-dallas on April 16, 2013, 09:40:39 pm
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Is it me or has the UCE changed the company for the better. It seems to me the resurgence in sales is directly as a result of the UCE being more powerful and more reliable. To me it seems like the UCE engine is in some ways more important to Royal Enfield than the Evolution was to Harley Davidson.
I don't want to start a flame war, but it seems like this was needed well before it was done.
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In a way it did, because if they hadn't made the UCE engine, they could not have passed Euro3 emissions requirements, and that would have ended the motorcycle part of the company, at least. It was important to have an engine which could pass the worldwide emission requirements.
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I don't know that it saved the company as they sell 90%+ of their bikes in India and they don't require all the smog stuff.
However it certainly kept the export business going, as small as it is, it's certainly going to grow and give them a larger world market. When the 750 twin comes out that should show a big spike in the exports. They are looking for a jump when the Cafe racer arrives, but still at this point we are talking about increases in the 100s. The world market for the bike is maybe 3000 units per annum now. the UCEs did spike a bit in the US, especially when CA got their bikes initially, but that has evened out, too.
Bare
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the uce has sure saved ME (a lot of cash per mpg).
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As Bare said, the vast majority of their sales are in India and everyone there knows how to fix that bike so they can all run forever. I think they are looking to expand their export sales and be a little cleaner even in India. The air quality in some of their large cities is quite poor. Though they run an open loop EFI there and no catalytic converter the EFI still runs cleaner than the old carb.
Scott
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As Bare said, the vast majority of their sales are in India and everyone there knows how to fix that bike so they can all run forever.
I thought I read somewhere that they're still selling upwards of 70,000 motorcycles a year... Is that true? If so, they must be moving 'em out somewhere...
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Most of them are sold in India where there is a waiting period of over 6 months between the time you pay your money and you get your motorcycle.
The demand is so great the dealers treat their customers like crap and the people just keep on coming.
Royal Enfield's new factory was supposed to open not too long ago but I haven't heard much about it. When it does they should be producing well over 100,000 new RE's a year.
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And 70,000 bikes a year almost qualifies as a 'boutique' manufacturer in India. They've got plenty of people who need transportation and some companies make and sell many times that a year.
Scott
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Well when you have 1.27 billion potential customers who cares about the international market, I know I wouldn't :D
I wonder how many Bullets have been made over the last 50 years?
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It is not just the UCE that saved the company, but the vision of a 30 year old
business graduate (and owner of the brand), who was passionate about the brand,
that did the trick. Before Siddharth Lal took over the reigns of RE India, the company
was running into losses. He immediately brought in, industry's best known names, into
the company and improved over the existing quality. Then RE came out with a flurry of
models Electra, Machismo, Thunderbird etc. and by doing away with the points ignition,
for the first time in 50 years, and working simultaneously on newer engines, such as AVL
and UCE.
Currently all its models whether sold in India or elsewhere run on UCE platform. And for people
who may not be aware, India has the most strict norms for pollution, as least when the vehicles
roll out of the factory !! And all heritage models, still share the roads with the new ones, simply
because its a heritage model, and a Bullet at that !!
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+ 10 to what Brady said.
The company was saved pre UCE but the unit lump ensured the future and made expansion happen.
Long live the UCE.
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Long live the UCE Enfield.
;D :D
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Im pretty sure the AVL engine and Classic frames painted in B.R. Green saved REM
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imho i think the brand just wanted to get into the global market. did import tariffs help HD and the evo way back when? i never wanted to purchase a HD, but i believe they had governmental support to stay afloat. remember 700cc ujp engines? i don't think RE india was going out of business without our enthusiastic stateside support. as far as i can tell, we seem to be in on the bottom floor of a resurgence of simplicity in our mode of 2-wheel transport.
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RE almost got crushed by the arrival of the little Indo-Japanese bikes over the past 20 years. These were much more reliable and cheaper than the iron barrels. Without these improvements and UCE, it was pretty much extinction for this brand. Drive around Delhi nowadays and you will rarely see more than 3-4 REs during the day amongst the sea of thousands of lookalike 150cc black plastic bikes. Chennai isn't much better either....maybe 1% of all bike sightings if you are lucky.
Anyway, things are looking great with the Cafe racer.........and hopefully a UCE Interceptor on the way soon?
GSS
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imho i think the brand just wanted to get into the global market. did import tariffs help HD and the evo way back when? i never wanted to purchase a HD, but i believe they had governmental support to stay afloat. remember 700cc ujp engines? i don't think RE india was going out of business without our enthusiastic stateside support. as far as i can tell, we seem to be in on the bottom floor of a resurgence of simplicity in our mode of 2-wheel transport.
R.E.'s sales in the US have grown while sales of other marques have continued to decline.
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An twin would probably sell very well in India. The RE 500 is already the largest displacement bike produced in the country.
Scott
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ya gotta remember, Enfield, that last I heard, sold 135,000 bikes in India last year. Total world wide exports >3,000. US imports >700. Anything Enfield does for us is just them being nice to us. They certainly wouldn't miss the business.
I'm glad we're on their good side.
Bare
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+1. Think about all the trouble they went through to CARB certify the bike just to sell them in Cali. Sure, Kevin has sway but that's a lot of money to get that cert and a special run of tanks for those bikes with the extra vent and carb cansiter...
That most of us throw in the trash on day one :)
Scott
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It also might just be some good forward thinking. If you hear me as a woman complaining, I can tell you other women are too. And women are a rapidly growing bike market, especially as they get the good paying jobs. We don't want or like monsters, but we don't necessarily want to be stuck with a 230cc Rebel even though theya re great bikes. I have heard that even the Japanese are thinking of bringing in some of their smaller bikes. With the cost of fuel, and what looks like an urbanization and return to the cities, smaller to midsized bikes will grow in demand. I am just sorry the Vespa didn't work out. And yes, I would happily ride a Vespa 300cc over the distances I would take a RE. They are durbale hard working packhorses and handle the wind much better than a lot of bigger bikes.
I am very grateful RE is here. An antique with a warranty.
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Don't know if it saved the company but it sold me. Wanted an RE for some time but was afraid of the reputation they had. I want to ride it not work on it. :)
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Don't know if it saved the company but it sold me. Wanted an RE for some time but was afraid of the reputation they had. I want to ride it not work on it. :)
Same here...I was pondering getting an RE for a long time but reluctant due to the reputation the pre-unit have. Then reports and "first test rides" about the UCE showed up in the papers, very convincing. So I did it. Bad luck struck me hard as my C5 has got a replacement engine just after 2500km. So I hope bad luck doesn't strike me two times in a row.
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They might have thought "Whatever doesn't kill us will make us stronger". ;)
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what happened to the original motor?
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what happened to the original motor?
They phased it out :( UCE from now on. Damn emissions crap. Of course, with the amount of Cast Irons and the associated technical expertise back in India, the original will still be alive for many years to come. (I hope)
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what happened to the original motor?
The old motor is still very much alive, even though it's no longer in factory production. The factory and CMW and Hitchcock's are still able to supply original and aftermarket parts.
There are people who want the vintage stuff and there are people who will supply them with upgrades and parts.
It's now much the same as most vintage cycles. Eventually after a certain amount of time passes, the aftermarket and vintage enthusiasts keep them alive.
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With as many of the bikes as there are in India the parts supply won't dry up soon. There are many bikes there that are several decades old and still running just fine, passed down through families.
Scott
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Once I get the UCE figured out, I hope to get an "authentic" Enfield. :)
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Once I get the UCE figured out, I hope to get an "authentic" Enfield. :)
Hi MrMike.
Please allow me to share my take.
IMHO the UCE powered Bullets are the REal deal and here's why I think that.
The frames. While the various lugs and brackets that have changed a bit the base frame and tin works are still the same.....and metal not plastic.
The UCE lump has the same 84mm bore and 90mm stroke and heavy flywheels as before.
No over head cams. The valves are push rod operated and there's still only two of them.
True it has hydraulic lifters but those were state of the art 1948 (H-D pan head got them that year)
Still has a primary chain to drive the transmission. No counter balance shafts here either.
It has 1970's tech electronic ignition, 1980's tech front disc brake and 1990 tech EFI..wow.
There was no departure and REturn to it's roots, the Bullet is what it has been since the beginning and has stayed true to what it is only it's easier to live with now.
At least that's my take.
Ride safe.
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Adding to Ice's thoughts, the snail adjusters used to adjust the rear wheel are the same as those that were on the 1948 350cc Trials bike.
Like them or not, they are a historic part of the motorcycles design.
This Trials bike used the spring/shock mounted swing arm during a time that the other production motorcycles were either still building hardtails or using the vertical plunger rear suspension.
The method of making the rear mounting bracket for these spring/shocks hasn't changed much since 1949 when several of the Royal Enfields with the shock mounted swing arm were put into production.
Although Royal Enfield wasn't the first to sell motorcycles with this type of rear suspension the other companies that had used it were either out of business or had dropped the design.
This newly designed suspension resulted in Royal Enfield definitely being the reason the other companies tried to get their versions of it into production to replace their obsolete designs.
The headlight casquette on the current Royal Enfields with its twin parking light "eyes" is basically the same as those that were used on the 1954 Bullet, the 500 Twin and the Meteor.
The new UCE engine is still using a built in separate oil tank built into the engine along with the dry sump just like the Royal Enfields have always used on their 4 stroke engines.
The best part of it is there is nothing phony. They didn't have to "recreate" any of it because Royal Enfield has been using all of these old designs from the time they were first introduced.
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I think Enfield are being pragmatic - only changing something when:
a. there is a definite improvement to be had in terms of maintenance or performance, such as hydraulic tappets, improved lights
b. emissions controls demand cleaner running engines.
I really like the look of the UCE motor, although I think the more rounded RHS casing on the Enfield 'classic' engine looks slightly easier on the eye and more 'retro' than the one on my 'Electra' (G5). Maybe one day I'll pick up a second hand 'classic' RHS casing. Does anyone know if it is a straight swap?
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Adding to Ice's thoughts, the snail adjusters used to adjust the rear wheel are the same as those that were on the 1948 350cc Trials bike.
Like them or not, they are a historic part of the motorcycles design.
This Trials bike used the spring/shock mounted swing arm during a time that the other production motorcycles were either still building hardtails or using the vertical plunger rear suspension.
The method of making the rear mounting bracket for these spring/shocks hasn't changed much since 1949 when several of the Royal Enfields with the shock mounted swing arm were put into production.
Although Royal Enfield wasn't the first to sell motorcycles with this type of rear suspension the other companies that had used it were either out of business or had dropped the design.
This newly designed suspension resulted in Royal Enfield definitely being the reason the other companies tried to get their versions of it into production to replace their obsolete designs.
The headlight casquette on the current Royal Enfields with its twin parking light "eyes" is basically the same as those that were used on the 1954 Bullet, the 500 Twin and the Meteor.
The new UCE engine is still using a built in separate oil tank built into the engine along with the dry sump just like the Royal Enfields have always used on their 4 stroke engines.
The best part of it is there is nothing phony. They didn't have to "recreate" any of it because Royal Enfield has been using all of these old designs from the time they were first introduced.
To Underscore what brother Arizoni said
(http://www.royalenfield.org.uk/why/Jim_Hemingway_1948_G2%20Bullet_Trials.jpg)
The only known surviving '48 G2 factory works trials Bullet lovingly restored ( and regularly ridden) by it's current owner Jim Hemingway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mfZ4Res-9o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mfZ4Res-9o)
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R.E.'s sales in the US have grown while sales of other marques have continued to decline.
Perhaps, but Enfield's US sales for a year still wouldn't equal one month's sales for H-D, BMW, or the Japanese Big Three...
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Total world wide exports >3,000. US imports >700.
And that, I suspect, is why it (sometimes) takes so damn long to get repair parts from the factory.
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In the Scotland, Enfield riders are definitely a (distinguished) minority, and while it would be great to see more on the road (for instance to keep people who work in the dealerships in jobs), it isn't going to happen overnight. The UCE engine does seem a real asset in attracting riders from other brands, who want the 'heritage' of Enfield, but their home comforts such as electric start, low maintenance, and an absence of oil on the garage floor. The TV series with Charlie Boorman and Ewan McGregor apparently did wonders for BMW's GS sales. Perhaps filming a similar odyssey on Bullets would give the brand similar boost outside India? I'll bet there are Bullets which have gone where no GS could go.......
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Now you've got my attention.
Cheers,
Bill
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~ I'll bet there are Bullets which have gone where no GS could go.......
Yes.....yes there is.
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One thing is for sure...... Since the UCE they have been selling MANY more units per year.
More than 5 years ago it looks like they were selling 40,000 to 50,000 a year. Thats a HUGE change. I really enjoy my 2011 G5 Standard in Green.
Here is what the Financial Times says about Eicher Motors:
Eicher Motors Limited (EML) is an India-based company which operates in the automobile industry. The Company's and its subsidiary companies business activities falls within a single primary business segment, which include Automobile products and related components. The Company's products include motorcycles and components. It also manufactures and markets the Royal Enfield motorcycles. During the year ended December 31, 2012, total exports in were 3,532 units, and total sales volume of Royal Enfield was 113,432 motorcycles. . During 2012, the Company launched the all new Thunderbird 500 and Thunderbird 350 motorcycle. The Company's subsidiaries include Eicher Trucks and Buses (ETB), Volvo Trucks India (VTI), Eicher Engineering Components (EEC) and Eicher Engineering Solutions (EES).
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From what I have read, Royal Enfield, can't keep up with local demand let alone international. Bear in mind that in India, Royal Enfield is regarded as a premium brand and this is a country where cheap transportation is a necessity. Theres evidently an 8 month waiting list on these bikes in India?! I don't think the UCE engine saved the brand at all, it's been going for the last 70 years without issues, I just think it was time for a more modern and emission friendly design.
If you take a look at numbers, RE exported 3000 bikes to the US in 2012, that was out of a total production of 114000 or something to that effect, and the US is their biggest importer!
We are talking about 1.2 billion people in India, if you can sell to just 5% of that market you are set for life :) I think international sales are important but they don't even scratch the surface when it comes to local sales.
Just my 2c.