Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => 650 Interceptor & Continental GT => Topic started by: dcolak on June 30, 2020, 07:19:49 pm
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Hi guys,
I find GT 650 rather twitchy mid turns. Touching front brake or it letting go mid turn, makes it all nervous.
The strange thing is, I use up fully my front tire while leaning but the back tire still has a lot to give.
I can't lean more as the front tire already gave everything it had.
How do you turn, do you put down your knee or what? :-)
Because of twitchiness I'm thinking of putting on the Ohlins.
STX 36 on the back
(https://www.ohlins.eu/images/db/highres/img-00001220.jpg)
FSK 145 on the front
(https://www.revzilla.com/product_images/1397/6574/ohlins_fsk100_fork_cartridge_kit_750x750.jpg)
How's your experience with the aftermarket shocks?
Do they work well with GT 650?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEbdqOFcaSo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEbdqOFcaSo)
Thanks!
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Do you actually lean your body with the bike?
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Do you actually lean your body with the bike?
Yes. Why? :)
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Using YSS G Series. Fully adjustable.
Can supply to UK all yss for 650's inc fork upgrade kits.
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Maybe you should have some advanced riding technique lessons on a track
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Maybe you should have some advanced riding technique lessons on a track
This^.
Do your braking before the turn.
Brake, turn in, apply throttle. I bet that will resolve your twitchiness. Grabbing front brake in the turn will bring you unstuck one day. Learn to ride first, get ohlins later.
Watch "a twist of the wrist" and Dave Moss.
Don't worry about the rear tyre. It has a pretty round profile so there always a chicken strip even when the front is used to the edge. I've never gotten rid of the back strip on my GT. Only noobs do chicken strip analysis, anyway. Doesn't mean anything.
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Now would be a good time for you to invest in rider training.
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Using YSS G Series. Fully adjustable.
Can supply to UK all yss for 650's inc fork upgrade kits.
Do you feel wheel is more in touch with road at all times?
Is it less "floating" at 140+ kmh?
Does it keep the line better in turns?
Thanks!
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This^.
Do your braking before the turn.
Brake, turn in, apply throttle. I bet that will resolve your twitchiness. Grabbing front brake in the turn will bring you unstuck one day. Learn to ride first, get ohlins later.
Watch "a twist of the wrist" and Dave Moss.
Don't worry about the rear tyre. It has a pretty round profile so there always a chicken strip even when the front is used to the edge. I've never gotten rid of the back strip on my GT. Only noobs do chicken strip analysis, anyway. Doesn't mean anything.
Friends, this is bullying. Stop the bullying please or I'll have to report you.
It's called trail braking and is used a lot by people that actually run the track.
You can learn a bit about it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPE67XqGsV4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPE67XqGsV4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZWac8OyYV0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZWac8OyYV0)
GT 650 is really twitchy when transitioning from brake to throttle, that's why I'm looking into the better suspension.
If you have nothing to contribute, please do not harass and bully me.
Thank you.
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IMHO...Ohlins are not the way to go....
The rears are only partially adjustable..they do not have compression adjustments...
The front kit is mostly not adjustable .....only preload...
Why spend all that money and effort for so little tune-ability??? How can you set up for your riding weight and riding style???
I would go with either K Tech front and rear (both ends fully adjustable)(this is what I am doing)
Or go with YSS on the rear (fully adjustable)
Or Andreani on the front....
I have a top suspension Guru working on my suspension...he is an Ohlins dealer and Ohlins expert...but when he saw they are not fully adjustable...he steered me to K Tech....
I just installed the K Tech rear shocks tonight...no time to ride yet...not professionally set up yet either...I just set to the recommended "starting" point for preload, compression damping and rebound damping....set the length to the same as stock......
I won't get to do the forks for a week or two...this requires some extra work, and machine shop work too...
I'll let you know how it all turns out!
BTW regarding Royal Enfiled quality control....the distance between the top and bottom shock mounts is not the same on the left and right sides of the bike...about a 2 or 3mm difference!!!
The OEM shocks are not length adjustable....so you can see where the rubber end mount was all distorted on one shock....to fit into the mis-fit frame!!
Two "sort of" solutions I can see....
1) My new shocks are length adjustable....so adjust one shock longer than the other, so that the bolts go in without effort, with the swing arm hanging down.
2) Make the shocks exactly the same length....install the one side first, then compress that shock slightly until the other side lines up...then bolt that in.
So far I went with #1...
Cookie
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IMHO...Ohlins are not the way to go....
The rears are only partially adjustable..they do not have compression adjustments...
The front kit is mostly not adjustable .....only preload...
Why spend all that money and effort for so little tune-ability??? How can you set up for your riding weight and riding style???
I would go with either K Tech front and rear (both ends fully adjustable)(this is what I am doing)
Or go with YSS on the rear (fully adjustable)
Or Andreani on the front....
I have a top suspension Guru working on my suspension...he is an Ohlins dealer and Ohlins expert...but when he saw they are not fully adjustable...he steered me to K Tech....
I just installed the K Tech rear shocks tonight...no time to ride yet...not professionally set up yet either...I just set to the recommended "starting" point for preload, compression damping and rebound damping....set the length to the same as stock......
I won't get to do the forks for a week or two...this requires some extra work, and machine shop work too...
I'll let you know how it all turns out!
BTW regarding Royal Enfiled quality control....the distance between the top and bottom shock mounts is not the same on the left and right sides of the bike...about a 2 or 3mm difference!!!
The OEM shocks are not length adjustable....so you can see where the rubber end mount was all distorted on one shock....to fit into the mis-fit frame!!
Two "sort of" solutions I can see....
1) My new shocks are length adjustable....so adjust one shock longer than the other, so that the bolts go in without effort, with the swing arm hanging down.
2) Make the shocks exactly the same length....install the one side first, then compress that shock slightly until the other side lines up...then bolt that in.
So far I went with #1...
Thanks man, that info was really helpful.
I'll wait with purchase, I wan't to see what you say when you try the K techs.
I like Ohlins front fork tweak due to no machining necessary.
I'm just counting on better compliance of springs and damping.
Regarding OEM shocks, I saw one is much more "loose" than the other at the bolt part.
Never thought it was due to different lengths!
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Try lowering your fork tubes about 10mm .
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I'm not sure what that would accomplish ??
I asked this question specifically, (because you mentioned this before)
Suspension Guru tells me that is a bad idea...he didn't explain why, other than it can really fuc-up the bike...
The major problem that he diagnosed, (on my specific bike) was poor rebound damping on the front. The bike, when he tested, will "bounce" about three times, up and down...should go down, then rise up....that's all..
Raising the bike at the front end will not help with this.
The Guru says we will most likely end up with the bike sitting with a slight "rake"..that is, a hair high in the rear compared to the front...(not the other way 'round)
He also went on to tell me the story of a crazy kid who came in with all good equipment installed on his sport bike, but all out of whack settings and fork height...he told the kid to make an appointment to get the bike set up properly...he told the kid not to ride the f-ed up bike...he made repeated phone calls to the kid...who ignored....then two weeks later...kid looses it in a turn...dead....
Really, probably not the fault of the bike..kid most likely just too crazy...but a word or warning to not f-up what you don't understand....
just sayin...
Just to be perfectly clear....I am not a "hard" rider....A super set-up suspension is completely wasted on me. I am going for a super-comfortable, street ride....for my old-man style of riding...."comfort over performance"...
The Guru says this is completely do-able....to make a great riding, great handling bike...but set up for my style of street riding...
This is the main reason I went with full adjustable front and rear suspension and pro set-up!
It has also become a "learning experience" just for the fun of learning...I'm sure the cost will not be "worth" the results...but...
We shall see...
Cookie
Try lowering your fork tubes about 10mm .
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I noticed too that there were different lengths. And as my YSS are length adjustable so did the same.
K tech are good but double the price of the YSS G Series. Mmmmm are twice as good or paying a lot for the name? I dont know but if anything like the YSS you will be stoked.
I also have the Fork kit from YSS which is excellent
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I doubt that a couple of mm is going to make any difference. You’d probably get that in the bushings. And I’m really starting to dislike the word ‘guru’. I’ve met so many experts on so many things that totally contradict each other. A bit like religion when you pause to think about it....
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I agree! Both that the slight length difference doesn't matter, and that the K tech shocks are way overpriced for essentially the same thing a YSS.
I just went with the recommendation of the Guru. (there I said it again...guru, guru guru!!!)
YSS front end probably is great too....but not fully adjustable...
Cookie
I noticed too that there were different lengths. And as my YSS are length adjustable so did the same.
K tech are good but double the price of the YSS G Series. Mmmmm are twice as good or paying a lot for the name? I dont know but if anything like the YSS you will be stoked.
I also have the Fork kit from YSS which is excellent
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Agree about the length difference....not an issue...
Guru
[ goo r-oo, goo-roo ]
SEE SYNONYMS FOR guru ON THESAURUS.COM
noun
1) Hinduism. a preceptor giving personal religious instruction.
2) an intellectual or spiritual guide or leader.
3) any person who counsels or advises; mentor: The elder senator was her political guru.
4) a leader in a particular field: the city's cultural gurus.
Definitions 2, 3, 4......perfect use of the word by me! (and I like the first pronunciation, 3 syllables!)
Ron at Washington Cycle Works is certainly an intellectual leader, as he has many many years of suspension experience and success. He also counsels, and give advice. Since I am ignorant and he is all knowing...he is my mentor on this subject. His reputation is known far and wide, on suspension...so he is in fact, a leader in his field.
Guru !!!
And yes, there is even a religious sort of component to motorcycle stuff, like suspension...full of contradictions!
And just like with religion, you may note a hint of skepticism in my posts!
Cookie
I doubt that a couple of mm is going to make any difference. You’d probably get that in the bushings. And I’m really starting to dislike the word ‘guru’. I’ve met so many experts on so many things that totally contradict each other. A bit like religion when you pause to think about it....
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Friends, this is bullying. Stop the bullying please or I'll have to report you.
It's called trail braking and is used a lot by people that actually run the track.
You can learn a bit about it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPE67XqGsV4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPE67XqGsV4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZWac8OyYV0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZWac8OyYV0)
GT 650 is really twitchy when transitioning from brake to throttle, that's why I'm looking into the better suspension.
If you have nothing to contribute, please do not harass and bully me.
Thank you.
You go right ahead and report away, little fella. I've included a report form for you to use as an attachment.
Please enlighten me as to what part of my post you consider bullying. Was it where I suggested you consider some rider training? Or where I offered advice on braking in corners? Perhaps it was the part where I advised you, through practical experience, that front and rear chicken strips might not match due to the tyre profiles used on this bike. Or that using chicken strips as a metric of rider ability is a rookie error founded in ignorance and misplaced pride? Admittedly I do like having no chicken strips, it impresses noobs. Maybe I offended you when I suggested you watch the seminal riding skill video "a twist of the wrist" or Dave Moss' suspension tuning channel on YouTube.
Thanks for your advice regarding trail braking. I am actually aware of and practice this method. I participate in track days average once a month, as a rider and administrator. I've invested in roadcraft courses to improve my road riding and racecraft courses under the instruction of BSB and IOMTT racers and I consider myself a moderately fast, and safe, road and track rider. So I'm good in that department, thanks. How about you? I prefer to Not advocate trail braking on the road unless a rider is proficient.
But, what do I know? If you think spending big bucks on aftermarket suspension will address your shortcomings as a rider, more power to you. Perhaps I'm wide of the mark and you're a highly skilled racer trying to lower lap times. More likely big noting yourself to impress the Enfield community for reasons known only to you. Good luck and all the best.
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Here are good videos on how to replace front and rear suspension, also the comments on riding experience afterwards.
Front
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCywpE9fwnA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCywpE9fwnA)
Back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cFuNIbicXg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cFuNIbicXg)
Riding comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxk6NJBQjg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxk6NJBQjg)
Exactly what I'm expecting out of it, wheels keeping contact with road at all times.
Didn't find more info on Ohlins and K-Tech. If anyone has more info, please share :)
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I'm not sure what that would accomplish ??
I asked this question specifically, (because you mentioned this before)
Suspension Guru tells me that is a bad idea...he didn't explain why, other than it can really fuc-up the bike...
The major problem that he diagnosed, (on my specific bike) was poor rebound damping on the front. The bike, when he tested, will "bounce" about three times, up and down...should go down, then rise up....that's all..
Raising the bike at the front end will not help with this.
The Guru says we will most likely end up with the bike sitting with a slight "rake"..that is, a hair high in the rear compared to the front...(not the other way 'round)
He also went on to tell me the story of a crazy kid who came in with all good equipment installed on his sport bike, but all out of whack settings and fork height...he told the kid to make an appointment to get the bike set up properly...he told the kid not to ride the f-ed up bike...he made repeated phone calls to the kid...who ignored....then two weeks later...kid looses it in a turn...dead....
Really, probably not the fault of the bike..kid most likely just too crazy...but a word or warning to not f-up what you don't understand....
just sayin...
Just to be perfectly clear....I am not a "hard" rider....A super set-up suspension is completely wasted on me. I am going for a super-comfortable, street ride....for my old-man style of riding...."comfort over performance"...
The Guru says this is completely do-able....to make a great riding, great handling bike...but set up for my style of street riding...
This is the main reason I went with full adjustable front and rear suspension and pro set-up!
It has also become a "learning experience" just for the fun of learning...I'm sure the cost will not be "worth" the results...but...
We shall see...
Cookie
dcolak asked about twitchy feeling mid corner.
Gee I thought everybody used the fork height and rear shock length to fine tune handling characteristics after setting sag and rider height. Seemed to correct twitchy mid corner stability for me. Seems Iv been f-ing up something I don't understand for the last 45 years , must be lucky I guess.
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dcolak asked about twitchy feeling mid corner.
Gee I thought everybody used the fork height and rear shock length to fine tune handling characteristics after setting sag and rider height. Seemed to correct twitchy mid corner stability for me
Thanks man. That's exactly what we are talking about. I have no idea why so many people here start bullying when you mention trail braking, lean angles and high revs. ???
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dcolak
I'm sure ill be flamed for this advive as Im not a suspension guru, just a retired coal mine mechanical fitter and shouldn't be giving advice and f-ing up stuff I apparently don't understand . I believe the original set up of these forks were downright dangerous but could be much improved for about $20, simply remove forks, drain oil and change to 15w ( I used penrite 15w synthetic fork oil) fill to 140mm from top ( fork compressed and spring out). Then add more preload to the springs depending on your weight start with about 8 mm ,( I set rider sag to around 30mm) either make new spacer tubes or add washers of approximately 35mm OD under the caps. I found this a huge improvement and much safer handling but I eventually upgraded the springs and valves to better suit my weight .
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See another post regarding "religion"
Cookie
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dcolak
I'm sure ill be flamed for this advive as Im not a suspension guru, just a retired coal mine mechanical fitter and shouldn't be giving advice and f-ing up stuff I apparently don't understand . I believe the original set up of these forks were downright dangerous but could be much improved for about $20, simply remove forks, drain oil and change to 15w ( I used penrite 15w synthetic fork oil) fill to 140mm from top ( fork compressed and spring out). Then add more preload to the springs depending on your weight start with about 8 mm ,( I set rider sag to around 30mm) either make new spacer tubes or add washers of approximately 35mm OD under the caps. I found this a huge improvement and much safer handling but I eventually upgraded the springs and valves to better suit my weight .
That's what I noticed, it gets really strange mid turn, god forbids you are running over road that is not perfectly flat.
Thanks for the suggestion!
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I think the clues are in the’guru’ and ‘ignorance’ comment. Gurus feed on ignorance or more precisely naivety. Anyone that tells you these bikes handle terribly is conning you. Sure, they may not be trackworthy, but come on- they handle at least as well as the bikes in my 45 years of riding have. Probably better. And Colac or whatever your name is, you seem to imply a throttle off- brake on- throttle on style of riding. Wrong bike. Smoothness is everything- Joey Dunlop would tell you that . Years of riding old Ducati’s taught me to favour the rear brake to conserve the front tyre profile. Once you got any squaring of the front tyre they handled like shit. Pick your line, ride the rear brake, feather the front, power out of the apex. Old time bikers would cream over this bike. I’m so happy with mine that I crave every moment on it.
I’m going to play around with modding it but that’s just me. Not any shortcoming of the bike. If you’re unhappy maybe you should get a 170 hp jap screamer.
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I'll tell you that "my" particular RE650 handles terribly.....I don't know about anybody else's...but mine bounces down the road. I have had 9 other bikes that didn't bounce down the road...but this one does....
If you do a simple test of the front end...you can see that it "rebounds" at least three cycles....poor rebound damping...
Many "fixes" have been suggested....I guess most or all will work to some degree.
I've decided to go with a fully adjustable cartridge kit...
I don't care about "race bike" handling, I am just a "cruise around" type of rider...I just don't want to bounce...especially in curves.
I'll let you know how it turns out.
BTW...you know nothing about Ron at Washington Cycle Works (the "guru")...so maybe you should not make any assumptions?
Just sayin'
Cookie
I think the clues are in the’guru’ and ‘ignorance’ comment. Gurus feed on ignorance or more precisely naivety. Anyone that tells you these bikes handle terribly is conning you. Sure, they may not be trackworthy, but come on- they handle at least as well as the bikes in my 45 years of riding have. Probably better. And Colac or whatever your name is, you seem to imply a throttle off- brake on- throttle on style of riding. Wrong bike. Smoothness is everything- Joey Dunlop would tell you that . Years of riding old Ducati’s taught me to favour the rear brake to conserve the front tyre profile. Once you got any squaring of the front tyre they handled like shit. Pick your line, ride the rear brake, feather the front, power out of the apex. Old time bikers would cream over this bike. I’m so happy with mine that I crave every moment on it.
I’m going to play around with modding it but that’s just me. Not any shortcoming of the bike. If you’re unhappy maybe you should get a 170 hp jap screamer.
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You go right ahead and report away, little fella. I've included a report form for you to use as an attachment.
Please enlighten me as to what part of my post you consider bullying. Was it where I suggested you consider some rider training? Or where I offered advice on braking in corners? Perhaps it was the part where I advised you, through practical experience, that front and rear chicken strips might not match due to the tyre profiles used on this bike. Or that using chicken strips as a metric of rider ability is a rookie error founded in ignorance and misplaced pride? Admittedly I do like having no chicken strips, it impresses noobs. Maybe I offended you when I suggested you watch the seminal riding skill video "a twist of the wrist" or Dave Moss' suspension tuning channel on YouTube.
Thanks for your advice regarding trail braking. I am actually aware of and practice this method. I participate in track days average once a month, as a rider and administrator. I've invested in roadcraft courses to improve my road riding and racecraft courses under the instruction of BSB and IOMTT racers and I consider myself a moderately fast, and safe, road and track rider. So I'm good in that department, thanks. How about you? I prefer to Not advocate trail braking on the road unless a rider is proficient.
But, what do I know? If you think spending big bucks on aftermarket suspension will address your shortcomings as a rider, more power to you. Perhaps I'm wide of the mark and you're a highly skilled racer trying to lower lap times. More likely big noting yourself to impress the Enfield community for reasons known only to you. Good luck and all the best.
Well said! The main factor in smoothness is the rider. He is attempting to compensate with hardware.
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I think the clues are in the’guru’ and ‘ignorance’ comment. Gurus feed on ignorance or more precisely naivety. Anyone that tells you these bikes handle terribly is conning you. Sure, they may not be trackworthy, but come on- they handle at least as well as the bikes in my 45 years of riding have. Probably better. And Colac or whatever your name is, you seem to imply a throttle off- brake on- throttle on style of riding. Wrong bike. Smoothness is everything- Joey Dunlop would tell you that . Years of riding old Ducati’s taught me to favour the rear brake to conserve the front tyre profile. Once you got any squaring of the front tyre they handled like shit. Pick your line, ride the rear brake, feather the front, power out of the apex. Old time bikers would cream over this bike. I’m so happy with mine that I crave every moment on it.
I’m going to play around with modding it but that’s just me. Not any shortcoming of the bike. If you’re unhappy maybe you should get a 170 hp jap screamer.
I am not following you. Why would my tyre be square? I am actually using its full profile.
On my Triumph 800XC it's oposite. My front tire is never used completely but my back tire is ridden to the limit of its profile.
It's just interesting. I guess it has to do something with the width and radius of the tires.
GT 650 is 100/90r18 : 130/70r18
Triumph 800XC is 90/90r21 : 150/70r17
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I was referring to your statement about Twitchiness when transitioning from brake to throttle. And the squaring was merely referring to the style I learned to adopt to conserve front tyre profile. Went a little sideways there sorry!
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On my Triumph 800XC it's oposite. My front tire is never used completely but my back tire is ridden to the limit of its profile.
It's just interesting. I guess it has to do something with the width and radius of the tires.
That was pointed out to you and you complained it was bullying.