[dcolak]

Hi everyone!

I have a problem. My continental gt 650 is cutting fuel at 7000 RPM in 1st gear (rev limiter)

In other gears it's cutting fuel at 8000 RPM (rev limiter)

Is there something wrong with my GT?

Can you reach 8000 RPM in 1st gear without hitting rev limiter at 7000 RPM?

What is the official rev limiter RPM?

Is rev limiter different for each gear?

Thank you!

[dcolak]

I'd appreciate if some of you with GT 650 would go out and just go full throttle in 1st gear until hitting the rev limiter :-)

Please tell me when did it cut the fuel, was it at 7000RPM or 8000RPM? :-)

Thanks!

[wildbill]

i'd say with less than 300 kl on the new bike you are treating it like a real pro

[dcolak]

i'd say with less than 300 kl on the new bike you are treating it like a real pro

One needs to know how fast he can go in each gear, it's a safety issue. 

[GlennF]

Some articles say the limit is 7300 others say 8000. Powertronic make an ECU that can raise the limit on race bikes to 15000 rpm.

That said max power is at 7250 so your not getting any real advantage revving out to 8000 with a stock engine.

[gizzo]

You need to ride it for at least 5 minutes on the rev limiter in first for the needle to reach 8000rpm. Do that and report back please.




(I'm just funnin' ya,  only do it if you really want to).

[Haggisman]

I have never in 45 years of riding redlined a bike in 1st gear. I cannot make myself be that cruel to an engine on a bike that I want to continue owning. Your bike , do what you want.

[Greytop]

I have never in 45 years of riding redlined a bike in 1st gear. I cannot make myself be that cruel to an engine on a bike that I want to continue owning. Your bike , do what you want.

My thoughts are similar - and with only 190 miles on the clock
But of course it's your bike dcolak to do as you wish.

The above comments aside I don't think establishing what the absolute (rev) limit is in first is necessary, after all you have all the other gears at your disposal. First gear is particularly short on the Interceptor / GT650 anyway.

[twocoolgliders]

Yet another reason to NEVER buy a used motorcycle!!!

Cookie

[twocoolgliders]

I'd appreciate it if you didn't!  (and you'd appreciate it too)


Just sayin'


Cookie

I'd appreciate if some of you with GT 650 would go out and just go full throttle in 1st gear until hitting the rev limiter :-)

Please tell me when did it cut the fuel, was it at 7000RPM or 8000RPM? :-)

Thanks!

[twocoolgliders]

Well said...Laughing my ass off!


Cookie

i'd say with less than 300 kl on the new bike you are treating it like a real pro

[twocoolgliders]

safety eh???    WTF?   over...


Cookie

One needs to know how fast he can go in each gear, it's a safety issue. 

[tooseevee]

Yet another reason to NEVER buy a used motorcycle!!!

Cookie

         

          This idea (8K in 1st) is so alien to me I don't even know how to comment.

[agagliardi]

Arghh! If Captain Bligh had a bike He too would have given it a proper flogging!

[Hoiho]

Every forum needs a Picard..

[Breezin]

Every forum has a wind-up merchant.

[dcolak]

Guys, you know nothing bad will happen to the motor if you hit rev limiter in 1st?

That's why rev limiter is there, to protect the motor.

It simply cuts fueling, nothing bad.

Please, if anyone would try it with his bike I'd appreciate it.

It is really strange, the fuel cuts at 7000 RPM in 1st and then lets fuel in again, so I can reach 8000 RPM in 1st, but with that strange cut at 7000 RPM.

It does not happen in any other gear, 2-6 they all reach rev limiter without problems.

Thank you.

[Greytop]

It does not happen in any other gear, 2-6 they all reach rev limiter without problems.

How did you manage to reach the rev limiter in sixth?

[JettaKnight]

I have never in 45 years of riding redlined a bike in 1st gear. I cannot make myself be that cruel to an engine on a bike that I want to continue owning. Your bike , do what you want.

You're obviously not safe. /s


And over in another thread I was worried about exceeding 30 mph in 4th...

[JettaKnight]

How did you manage to reach the rev limiter in sixth?

Centerstand.

[olhogrider]

Every forum has a wind-up merchant.

We do now.

[dcolak]

Guys, so no one can do me this little favor?

I don't know anyone with GT 650 so I cannot compare.

Just go ride, do full throttle in 1st gear and look at the RPM´s.

Does it stall at 7000 RPM before continuing to rise to 8000 RPM?

Thank you.

P.S.
I have no idea why some people think reaching rev limited 8000 RPM from time to time is bad for the motor.

It simply cuts the fuel, no damage can be done no matter how hard you try.

You do know the red starts at 8000 RPM?

[Greytop]

Centerstand.

Of course, stupid me

[Richard230]

Bad things can happen at high engine speeds. After I bought my new 1985 BMW R80, I took the bike to CC Products in San Jose, CA, to have a new 2-1 exhaust system installed, which included one of those mufflers that you could tune yourself by removing or adding flat discs. While there Chris decided to show me how much more power the new exhaust system made by running my bike on his dyno. During the last dyno run with the exhaust system installed, he ran the engine up to 8K rpm (I think the redline was 6,500 rpm).  The next time I inspected the valves, a pile of needle bearings fell into my lap, from both sides of the engine.  (Oddly, the engine still ran fine.  ) So I rode the bike to my dealer, gave him the bearings and pieces of their retaining cages that had broken and asked him to fix it.  Since the bike was under warranty, BMW rebuilt the engine's top end. I asked my dealer, as long as they were doing the work, how about installing R100 pistons and cylinders, which he did for a modest extra sum. BMW sure had great warranties back in the day.   

[dcolak]

Bad things can happen at high engine speeds. After I bought my new 1985 BMW R80, I took the bike to CC Products in San Jose, CA, to have a new 2-1 exhaust system installed, which included one of those mufflers that you could tune yourself by removing or adding flat discs. While there Chris decided to show me how much more power the new exhaust system made by running my bike on his dyno. During the last dyno run with the exhaust system installed, he ran the engine up to 8K rpm (I think the redline was 6,500 rpm).  The next time I inspected the valves, a pile of needle bearings fell into my lap, from both sides of the engine.  (Oddly, the engine still ran fine.  ) So I rode the bike to my dealer, gave him the bearings and pieces of their retaining cages that had broken and asked him to fix it.  Since the bike was under warranty, BMW rebuilt the engine's top end. I asked my dealer, as long as they were doing the work, how about installing R100 pistons and cylinders, which he did for a modest extra sum. BMW sure had great warranties back in the day.   

So he ran PAST RED LINE and was surprised he broke the engine?!

No one here is talking about running engine past red line - you actually cannot do it, that's why there is a rev limiter in every bike.

So, again, please could someone run his GT 650 in first gear up to the red line and tell me:

Does it stall at 7000 RPM before continuing to rise to 8000 RPM and hitting the rev limiter?

I've had many bikes, this is first time I see a bike stall 1000 RPM before hitting the rev limiter (before hitting the red).

Thank you very much.

[Richard230]

Back in the day, no motorcycles had rev limiters and the damage wasn't discovered by me until about a thousand miles later. I am still mystified that the engine still ran fine without the rocker roller bearings and that they didn't gravitate to any other area of the engine.  That memory was just a reminder that electronic rev limiters are a very good idea.

[dcolak]

Back in the day, no motorcycles had rev limiters and the damage wasn't discovered by me until about a thousand miles later. I am still mystified that the engine still ran fine without the rocker roller bearings and that they didn't gravitate to any other area of the engine.  That memory was just a reminder that electronic rev limiters are a very good idea.

I'd say you were lucky! 

[gizzo]

No one here is talking about running engine past red line - you actually cannot do it, that's why there is a rev limiter in every bike.

So, again, please could someone run his GT 650 in first gear up to the red line and tell me:

But nobody wants to.  Why you don't go to the dealer and do it to one of their demo models?

[dcolak]

But nobody wants to.  Why you don't go to the dealer and do it to one of their demo models?

Why wouldn't you want to use all the RPM's that motorcycle offers you?!

You can't think something bad would happen to the bike if you use all its RPM's?!

Is this a candid camera moment? 

[twocoolgliders]

For me the issue is not about running up to the rev limiter....

the issue is running up to the rev limiter on a new bike with only a hundred or so miles on it....

Cookie

[Haggisman]

I have encountered such mechanically unsympathetic people before, they are usually the ones with broken gearboxes,  melted pistons, snapped chains and no idea why.
It is the type of person that puts dealers off offering test rides on their bikes and makes warranty claims have to be investigated so much.

[dcolak]

For me the issue is not about running up to the rev limiter....

the issue is running up to the rev limiter on a new bike with only a hundred or so miles on it....

Cookie

Really? So, in spite, you do not want to help me?  Because you care about my bike?

Is this candid camera?

[dcolak]

I have encountered such mechanically unsympathetic people before, they are usually the ones with broken gearboxes,  melted pistons, snapped chains and no idea why.
It is the type of person that puts dealers off offering test rides on their bikes and makes warranty claims have to be investigated so much.

I hope you are not talking about me, that would make no sense.

Did you notice the same problem with your GT 650?

Does it rev freely to 8000 RPM in the 1st gear or does it bog down at 7000 RPM before continuing to rise to 8000 RPM?

Thank  you.

P.S.
Found a nice review, mentiones the same thing I see with my GT 650:

"Throttle response is smooth and linear, torque pulling you urgently from 2,000 to 4,000 rpm. Beyond that the engine delivers a guttural, lusty rush of power all the way to the 7,000rpm redline (although I’ve hit the rev limiter at 8,000rpm)."

So, where is the rev limiter? On my bike, the red line starts at 8.000 RPM.

https://wheels.ph/love-and-the-royal-enfield-650-twins/

[twocoolgliders]

Yes, I do not want to help you.

No, I don't care about your bike.

Yes, I do care about my bike and I operate it in that way.

Cookie

Really? So, in spite, you do not want to help me?  Because you care about my bike?

Is this candid camera?

[BRG-BIRD]

I spy with my little eye am internet troll

[Bilgemaster]

An "Internet Troll"? No, I suspect he's genuinely serious in wondering why there's some lag between 7,000 and 8,000 rpm in first gear and seeking independent confirmation. Though why exactly one might WANT to wail away like that in first at redline anywhere but at a drag strip pumping nitro, or expect others to blithely thrash their own motors just to satisfy his quite possibly ruinous curiosity, is a bit of a mystery to this old nurser-alonger of an Iron Barrel Bullet, as is his recurrent references to 'Candid Camera.' What's with the Allen Funt fixation? Is it the hair? That still-boyish grin after all these years? But what do I know? If I wound my old Bullet up anywhere near 8,000 rpm I'm fairly sure my piston would wind up in the hedges. Still, you've got six gears on those nice new twins. I'd say use 'em.

"Hi gang! This is Allen Funt from Candid Camera here to tell you that if you keep redlining in first gear your bike will soon be as dead as this busted TV."

[gizzo]

Yes, I do not want to help you.

No, I don't care about your bike.

Yes, I do care about my bike and I operate it in that way.

Cookie

Perfect.

[Gremlinsteve]

I suspect that what you are encountering is a lg in how fast your tach moves versus how fast the motor revs

Your seeing 7k but you’re actually already at 8k

You can and will hurt the motor. Just because you have a reve limiter doesn’t mean the engine won’t rev past that point mechanically

Good luck in your search

[greentrumpet]

DFTT

[Cat3625]

An E.C.U. Can be programmed by the manufacturer to have a soft cut (7000rpm) and harsh cut (8000 rpm)
Why any one would want rev the tits of a bike in 1st gear to 8000 rpm is beyond my comprehension especially when the maximum torque is at 5250 rpm,the point at which  to change gear,is at a much lower figure on these engines.https://bikereview.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Royal-Enfield-Interceptor-650-First-Service-Sydney-Dyno-Run.jpg
Leads me to believe the Poster is Mechanically unsympathetic to his equipment.

[BRG-BIRD]

An "Internet Troll"? No, I suspect he's genuinely serious in wondering why there's some lag between 7,000 and 8,000 rpm in first gear and seeking independent confirmation. Though why exactly one might WANT to wail away like that in first at redline anywhere but at a drag strip pumping nitro, or expect others to blithely thrash their own motors just to satisfy his quite possibly ruinous curiosity, is a bit of a mystery to this old nurser-alonger of an Iron Barrel Bullet, as is his recurrent references to 'Candid Camera.' What's with the Allen Funt fixation? Is it the hair? That still-boyish grin after all these years? But what do I know? If I wound my old Bullet up anywhere near 8,000 rpm I'm fairly sure my piston would wind up in the hedges. Still, you've got six gears on those nice new twins. I'd say use 'em.

"Hi gang! This is Allen Funt from Candid Camera here to tell you that if you keep redlining in first gear your bike will soon be as dead as this busted TV."

I can agree with all this.

[dcolak]

An E.C.U. Can be programmed by the manufacturer to have a soft cut (7000rpm) and harsh cut (8000 rpm)
Why any one would want rev the tits of a bike in 1st gear to 8000 rpm is beyond my comprehension especially when the maximum torque is at 5250 rpm,the point at which  to change gear,is at a much lower figure on these engines.https://bikereview.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Royal-Enfield-Interceptor-650-First-Service-Sydney-Dyno-Run.jpg
Leads me to believe the Poster is Mechanically unsympathetic to his equipment.

It's interesting, I never heard of the "soft cut" rev limiter. What is it? How does it work?

It would not be at 7000 rpm as the max HP is at 7250 rpm and the red starts after 7500 rpm

I've never heard of a motorcycle that has a rev-limiter at max HP, it would make no sense.

And why only in 1st gear and not in the rest of the gears?

Does your bike behave the same in the first gear?

[a10ken]

by revving the tits of a brand new motor and not adhering to the running in procedure (which is there for a reason!!) you have probably voided your warranty!!

[olhogrider]

The question has been asked and not answered. Why would anyone bounce their brand new engine off the redline before it is broken in? Then asking others to do it. This is why people suspect a troll. These are not race bikes or even sport bikes. They are nostalgia pieces for old guys like me and great all around middleweight fun bikes for people on a budget.

So the question remains, why would anyone do this and why would they ask anyone else to? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

[Cat3625]

Where in my reply does it say about a rev limiter at  max hp?
As for information on Soft & Hard ecu cuts I suggest you do a bit or research on the Internet.
Perhaps you can enlighten us to your location in the world.

[dcolak]

Where in my reply does it say about a rev limiter at  max hp?
As for information on Soft & Hard ecu cuts I suggest you do a bit or research on the Internet.
Perhaps you can enlighten us to your location in the world.

So you all have new motorcycles?

I am sorry, I did not know everyone here just bought their new GT 650's.

Thank you for mentioning soft rev-limiters. I learned something new.

I do not think there is a soft rev-limiter in GT 650.

Anyone, please, does your bike bog down on 7000 RPM in 1st gear, before reaching rev limited 8000 RPM?

Thank you!

[Breaker Express]

I pick up bike on Saturday. It has 150 miles on it so that is close to 190 so I will wind it up to 8000 rpm in 1st gear and see what happens.





NOT!!!!

[dcolak]

I pick up bike on Saturday. It has 150 miles on it so that is close to 190 so I will wind it up to 8000 rpm in 1st gear and see what happens.

NOT!!!!

Why not? What do you think would happen? 

If you think you would break something, you are simply wrong.

[Greytop]

I'm loving this thread, brings a smile to my face every time

[Mav]

All the bike forums I'm on and have been on in the past, NO ONE has asked to go and see where your bike rev limiter kicks in in first gear, not even on sport bike forums.

I'm with everyone else why??

Go to your dealer and test ride another, instead if asking us to red line our bikes.

[Tinker55]

I've tried it 
It kicks in at 14.750 RPM and than I heard a strange noise...

[Richard230]

Here is another example for you.    Bad things can happen when mistreat mechanical things. 

[dcolak]

All the bike forums I'm on and have been on in the past, NO ONE has asked to go and see where your bike rev limiter kicks in in first gear, not even on sport bike forums.

I'm with everyone else why??

Go to your dealer and test ride another, instead if asking us to red line our bikes.

You really think you could do anything bad to a motor by hitting once in a while the rev limiter?

Please explain.

Knowing where rev-limiter kicks in is a safety issue.

You MUST know where it kicks in, that's the point where you are going to lose the traction.

Out of thousand members of this forum, not even one hit the rev limiter in first gear? 

Hitting the rev-limiter is NOT "mistreating" things. Where did you get that idea? 

[jimku]

Anyone, please, does your bike bog down on 7000 RPM in 1st gear, before reaching rev limited 8000 RPM?

The way I ride, my bike will most likely never see 7,000 RPM in any gear.  No reason to ever rev it that high.

[Hoiho]

Clearly, you're doing it wrong jimku..

[dcolak]

The way I ride, my bike will most likely never see 7,000 RPM in any gear.  No reason to ever rev it that high.

So, you don't actually use the whole RPM span bike offers?

That's strange, knowing that most HP you get at 7.250 RPM.

It's actually perfect spot to change the gear and stay at the top of the torque curve.

[Stanley]

If you hit the limiter and upshift, you are not going to accelerate any quicker than if you shift slightly earlier without the engine being cut by the limiter. What power there is after the limit is static, not increasing. The limiter isn't a shift indicator, but a protection against abuse. There are shift lights that display the ideal shift point to avoid the limiter or one can simply use a handy tachometer. I've unintentionally hit the limits on my bikes while street racing, often followed by some special words. YMMV.

[dcolak]

If you hit the limiter and upshift, you are not going to accelerate any quicker than if you shift slightly earlier without the engine being cut by the limiter. What power there is after the limit is static, not increasing. The limiter isn't a shift indicator, but a protection against abuse. There are shift lights that display the ideal shift point to avoid the limiter or one can simply use a handy tachometer. I've unintentionally hit the limits on my bikes while street racing, often followed by some special words. YMMV.

Of course rev limiter is not a shift indicator.

My problem is, GT gets bogged long before reaching rev limiter (at 7.000 rpm, even before reaching it's max HP at 7.250 rpm), but only in 1st gear.

Other gears have no such problem.

I just wanted to know whether your bikes behave in the same way or I need to take mine into the service.

[Dharmabum]

But I want my amp to go to 11 not 10. Thats why I got an 11 knob made.

[Gremlinsteve]

Quantify your shift rpm versus a lower rpm at the track.  The track is the only way to know if you shifting at 8k is correct for the bike or not

[JettaKnight]

But I want my amp to go to 11 not 10. Thats why I got an 11 knob made.

After riding a bike that topped out at 6, I'll perfectly happy with 10. 

[JettaKnight]

You really think you could do anything bad to a motor by hitting once in a while the rev limiter?

Please explain.

Knowing where rev-limiter kicks in is a safety issue.

You MUST know where it kicks in, that's the point where you are going to lose the traction.

Out of thousand members of this forum, not even one hit the rev limiter in first gear? 

Hitting the rev-limiter is NOT "mistreating" things. Where did you get that idea? 

Safety issue?

I must have missed that chapter in Proficient Motorcycling.


If you're worried about power loss between 7,000 and 7,500 in 1st gear, then you bought the wrong bike.

[twocoolgliders]

There are plenty videos on the Net, and diagrams too...showing how to determine the "optimum" shift points for top acceleration performance....it does involve running up to, or at least close to, red line in each gear....

Anybody "worried" about such things, regarding the RE 650.....has purchased the completely wrong motorcycle!

The RE is not designed to be used in that fashion...(this bike is not one for max traction cornering either)

I'm not saying you can't get pretty good performance out of the RE...but...for "sport" riding...get a Sport Bike..

I suggest looking into a "Liter bike"....CBR RR.....etc.


Cookie

If you hit the limiter and upshift, you are not going to accelerate any quicker than if you shift slightly earlier without the engine being cut by the limiter. What power there is after the limit is static, not increasing. The limiter isn't a shift indicator, but a protection against abuse. There are shift lights that display the ideal shift point to avoid the limiter or one can simply use a handy tachometer. I've unintentionally hit the limits on my bikes while street racing, often followed by some special words. YMMV.

[Bilgemaster]

[Starpeve]

The problem people are having with you is not that you’re hitting the rev limiter,  it’s that you haven’t run the motor in first. It displays a total disregard for your bike. And why are you idiots suggesting that he tries this on a demo bike??? So he screws some other poor sucker over.? Great.

[Haggisman]

Apparently you can disable the rev limiter on some of the 50cc 2 stroke scooters by cutting 1 wire. The guy who told me they could go faster then, it significantly shortened the engines life span. He said he didn't care because they were very cheap second hand and he enjoyed wringing their necks to destruction.
Reminds me of a Blade Runner movie statement "The flame that burns twice as bright lasts half as long".

[twocoolgliders]

Cookie sez:

"A motorcycle which goes twice as fast, burns 4 times the fuel, and requires 8 times the horsepower!"


-Cookie

"The flame that burns twice as bright lasts half as long".

[twocoolgliders]

LOL....

Another reason to never buy a "demo" bike, or a car from a car rental company!

I think those who suggested revving out a dealer's demo bike, were of course in jest....


Cookie

The problem people are having with you is not that you’re hitting the rev limiter,  it’s that you haven’t run the motor in first. It displays a total disregard for your bike. And why are you idiots suggesting that he tries this on a demo bike??? So he screws some other poor sucker over.? Great.

[twocoolgliders]

Ya gotta love this forum...some really funny shite here!


Cookie

[agagliardi]

Hello dcolak.
A curious phenomena that must have a reason. The replies indicate that nobody revs their RE's that high. However why is the bike behaving so? I would think that the limits are determined by computer chip calibration. I believe that in the past rev limiting was mechanical, and fuel or spark was cut off at redline. I doubt that in this day and age, this is engineered mechanically, but rather by computer. I would bet that all the bikes behave the same way, and that the chips are calibrated so.  It would make sense, from a transmission syncro gear protection point of view, as most missed shifts would occur 1st to 2nd, so limiting revs in 1st would be a good thing.

Maybe one of our more experience mechanics can elaborate

[ace.cafe]

Why not? What do you think would happen? 

If you think you would break something, you are simply wrong.

Actually, it is you who is wrong. In first gear the load is very small, nearly like revving it to the moon in neutral. As alluded previously by another member, the engine can(and will) rev freely beyond the rev limiter rpm under such conditions of very fast wind-up speed...sort of like missing a shift. The rev limiter may not save the engine, or maybe it will. You are taking your chances.

I believe that due to your lack of experience, you think rev limiters prevent engine damage, and this is not so. In fact, even riding on the rev limiter frequently can cause engine damage by the upset the limiter creates when it actuates.

While this isn't an answer to your 7000 rpm question, and I cannot answer that question because I ride an Enfield single, it may help you to understand that reaching the top rpms is best done in the higher gears, and not first gear, due to the wind-up speed.

Good luck on your question about 7000 rpm hesitation. Maybe shifting it at 7000 or lower might even be a good idea, unless you are a professional Enfield drag racer for money.

[bikerken]

let me know the reg number of your bike , so as i will never be tempted to buy it.

[dcolak]

Actually, it is you who is wrong. In first gear the load is very small, nearly like revving it to the moon in neutral. As alluded previously by another member, the engine can(and will) rev freely beyond the rev limiter rpm under such conditions of very fast wind-up speed...sort of like missing a shift. The rev limiter may not save the engine, or maybe it will. You are taking your chances.

I believe that due to your lack of experience, you think rev limiters prevent engine damage, and this is not so. In fact, even riding on the rev limiter frequently can cause engine damage by the upset the limiter creates when it actuates.

While this isn't an answer to your 7000 rpm question, and I cannot answer that question because I ride an Enfield single, it may help you to understand that reaching the top rpms is best done in the higher gears, and not first gear, due to the wind-up speed.

Good luck on your question about 7000 rpm hesitation. Maybe shifting it at 7000 or lower might even be a good idea, unless you are a professional Enfield drag racer for money.

I am not sure I follow you.

One is simply accelerating in 1st gear and wants to change gear at top HP point which is at 7.250 RPM. It is no "free revving" it is simply riding the motorcycle.

Unfortunately, bike bogs down at 7.000 RPM and then continues to rise slowly to 8.000 RPM where the rev-limiter is actually set.

No other gear does that, they all freely rev to 8.000 RPM without bogging down at 7.000 RPM.

Regarding the "engine break-in" there are many different theories. Many scientific studies. Conclusion is, with modern engines, that is no longer an issue. Actually all new motorcycles have their engines "broken in" and revved high as a sky before even leaving factories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpoglovyy_8

https://youtu.be/BM_sM9tsmoY?t=312

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ruk6GLJgbA

"I work at an OEM'er building big diesel engines. Every engine is tested for 15 minutes. 5 minutes of heating up, making sure all pressures are correct, nothing is leaking etc. Then after 5 minutes its full throttle all the way. Cold oil, somewhat warm coolant.  The last few minutes are for cooling down. Those engines don't burn a drop of oil. Nothing even remotely in the manual about 'breaking in'.
Its full send from the factory and it works."

So, no one on this big forum has ever used the whole available RPM range in 1st gear?

That is unfortunate.

[ace.cafe]

Obviously, you don't follow me, so here's something else you probably won't follow.

On virtually all of the available dyno charts for the 650 twin, none of them show a peak hp point of 7250 rpm.
They actually peak at 6500-7000 rpm, depending on the example tested.

So your information about 7250 rpm would seem unsubstantiated in the real world.

[dcolak]

Obviously, you don't follow me, so here's something else you probably won't follow.

On virtually all of the available dyno charts for the 650 twin, none of them show a peak hp point of 7250 rpm.
They actually peak at 6500-7000 rpm, depending on the example tested.

So your information about 7250 rpm would seem unsubstantiated in the real world.

Look closely on those dyno runs, see how they hit against the rev limiter several times.

None of them bog down at 7000 rpm.

7250 rpm HP max is what is in GT 650's tech description.

[agagliardi]

This is not the usual forum chit chat, very entertaining, You guys are going at it like trial attorneys !  Sounds like the old SNL skit:" Jane you filthy slut!"

[Heavy Duty Mick]

Look closely on those dyno runs, see how they hit against the rev limiter several times.

None of them bog down at 7000 rpm.

7250 rpm HP max is what is in GT 650's tech description.

If you believe that your engine is underperforming, find a local Dyno who has run 650s in the past. Run your bike up and compare the results.

[JettaKnight]

I suggest looking into a "Liter bike"....CBR RR.....etc.


Cookie

I read that as "litter bike", as in, those are the kind of bikes littering the streets here in the Midwest. 

'round here, you've either got a sports bike or a cruiser. There's very few of us that don't toe the line... and wear ATGATT. (but, that's another thread)

[JettaKnight]

"I work at an OEM'er building big diesel engines. Every engine is tested for 15 minutes. 5 minutes of heating up, making sure all pressures are correct, nothing is leaking etc. Then after 5 minutes its full throttle all the way. Cold oil, somewhat warm coolant.  The last few minutes are for cooling down. Those engines don't burn a drop of oil. Nothing even remotely in the manual about 'breaking in'.
Its full send from the factory and it works."

And I was an engineer for a major US truck manufacturer, so I know the difference between these machines is night and day.

So, no one on this big forum has ever used the whole available RPM range in 1st gear?

That is unfortunate.

Is it? Is it really?

I don't know what to tell you. You can just accept that the whole available RPM range in 1st gear stops at 7000, or I guess you can get a plane to Leicestershire and talk to the engineers who designed it.

[ace.cafe]

Done and out.
Wasted time.

[twocoolgliders]

your bike is obviously screwed up!   Send it in for warranty...


Cookie

[GlennF]

One is simply accelerating in 1st gear and wants to change gear at top HP point which is at 7.250 RPM. It

Well .. if you were for some unfathomable reason drag racing a stock 650 interceptor ... you would change gears at the point that the torque in the next higher gear exceeded the torque in your current gear, not the max HP point in the current gear.

[dcolak]

And I was an engineer for a major US truck manufacturer, so I know the difference between these machines is night and day.

Is it? Is it really?

I don't know what to tell you. You can just accept that the whole available RPM range in 1st gear stops at 7000, or I guess you can get a plane to Leicestershire and talk to the engineers who designed it.

Does your GT stop at 7000 RPM, 500 RPM before the red line and 1000 RPM before rev limiter, only in 1st gear but not in other gears?

[JettaKnight]

Does your GT stop at 7000 RPM, 500 RPM before the red line and 1000 RPM before rev limiter, only in 1st gear but not in other gears?

I've only got 200 miles on my Interceptor; I've not had it above 4000.

[Greytop]

Obviously, you don't follow me, so here's something else you probably won't follow.

On virtually all of the available dyno charts for the 650 twin, none of them show a peak hp point of 7250 rpm.
They actually peak at 6500-7000 rpm, depending on the example tested.

So your information about 7250 rpm would seem unsubstantiated in the real world.

I agree, that is what I have noticed too.

[Bilgemaster]

"Horses for courses"  they say. That's what seems to be at play here. I gather most folks who'd choose to get one of those nice new 650 twins would do so for more or less the same reason I'm perfectly content to nurse along an old Iron Barrel Bullet: they just want to have a pleasant ride on something balanced and lovely that looks like a motorcycle ought, albeit with perhaps fewer concessions to modernity than I face. Sure, a few sensible mods to clear out a correctable inefficiency here or loosen some mandated emissions chokehold there are par for the course for most owners. But if they'd prioritized the kind of torque and power that caused one's testicles to retract they would have (should have) got a Hayabusa or something. So asking this crowd to wind out and very possibly damage their engines, no matter what anyone claims, will likely elicit only either disinterest, like trying to sell an iPod at an antique radio collectors convention, or even a sense of disgust or mild horror, like someone peddling fur pelts at a PETA conference.

Raw performance is not really what these bikes are about for most  owners, certainly those on this Forum, but that's not to say that everyone necessarily feels that way, nor, for that matter, should  everyone. Yet such a cavalier attitude to longterm engine health takes deeper pockets and other goals than most owners here may have. Another Forum member has already made the very sensible suggestion of contacting the good folks at Harris Performance, who designed these 650s in the first place. Many will recall their record-breaking runs in the 750 category at the Bonneville Speed Week  in 2018. According to other reports they blew out several engines in the course of gaining that new Land Speed Record for the class, so clearly their concern was not with pampering their mills so that they'll carry on through the Malia Obama Administration or whenever. Running nitrous oxide they were interested only in squeezing every last droplet of "Oomph!" from those motors and consequences to them be damned. It sounds to me like our man, "dcolak" might do well to at least reach out to Harris for answers to his questions. The folks who did the Bonneville runs were their Special Projects Team at the Bruntingthorpe, Royal Enfield Technical Centre, but general enquiries to Harris Peformance can be made at https://www.harris-performance.com/contact-us/ . My guess is they'll have answers to all his questions

In the meantime, I'm hoping our original poster might take a moment to either confirm or deny my earlier linguistic hunch that he is a Croatian-Chilean. Why not satisfy my curiosity?...

From Split they never really split!

[dcolak]

So asking this crowd to wind out and very possibly damage their engines,

That is absolutely, patently false.

You are not going to damage anything by using full RPM range offered by the bike.

No one is saying to go into the red, you actually cannot go into the red.

It is bonkers to think using fully what you purchased (0-7500 RPM range) would somehow destroy the bike.

No, I'm not from Split or Croatia.

[Haggisman]

Please indulge yourself in as much 8,000rpm riding as you feel happy with, keep us all informed of your progress. I await further news with baited breath.  Even if no one else will join you in your escapades, it is your bike and your choice how you ride it. Prove us all wrong.

[Heavy Duty Mick]

Thought this may be of interest.

[beagle]

I think I'm brain dead after trying to read through all this. Absolutely a pointless exercise with a who gives a f=ck anyway question...

[gizzo]

 

[Starpeve]

That dump chart is interesting! I thought that the 650 was making 47 hp stock?

[Haggisman]

47 at the crankshaft I would suggest, you lose a bit through the transmission.

[twocoolgliders]

Interesting...sort of.....

Note, the area outlined with the note  above it , of "horsepower increase"...


Uh....Isn't that actually the TORQUE curve?

Torque, horsepower, whatever???


Cookie


BTW to whoever asked.....dyno typically measures HP  at the rear wheel....which is usually considerably less than HP at the engine.....which is why you see around 43 hp on this chart...

More BTW..people always seem to treat HP and torque as two separate and unrelated things.

Torque is PART of horsepower!!!  More torque at a given =more horsepower.  More HP at a given RPM = more torque!

Horsepower is simply torque x RPM....

Thought this may be of interest.

[Haggisman]

Money outlayed for such a small gain in total figures,  a fattening of the spread of power and torque is nice though

[Heavy Duty Mick]

The two upper, flatter lines are the torque curves.

The lower two lines are the horsepower curves.

Horsepower is derived mathematically from torque output.

Horsepower =  RPM x Torque/5252

A gain of 13% is a noticeable improvement. Especially in the mid-range where most riding happens.

[Starpeve]

Also don’t forget to consider the weight saving! Mine was nearly 10 kg, which is 5% reduction. Nothing to sneeze at!

[JettaKnight]

I think I'm brain dead after trying to read through all this. Absolutely a pointless exercise with a who gives a f=ck anyway question...

Pretty much just entertaining.

The only thing I learned is that a large amount of Croats emigrated to Chile.

[olhogrider]

You guys! You keep feeding the troll. He has migrated to Facebook where there are many more people to comment. No one thinks this guy is serious or even mildly informed about internal combustion engines.

[20MarkIII]

You guys! You keep feeding the troll. He has migrated to Facebook where there are many more people to comment. No one thinks this guy is serious or even mildly informed about internal combustion engines.

Hmmm, suspicions confirmed. Isn't it interesting though that this thread has generated 99 posts! Human nature= we love a train wreck if even a little. Please someone hurry up and post so we can hit the Century mark. lol Damn!! That anyone would abuse these lovely machines like that.SMH

[Richard230]

Hmmm, suspicions confirmed. Isn't it interesting though that this thread has generated 99 posts! Human nature= we love a train wreck if even a little. Please someone hurry up and post so we can hit the Century mark. lol Damn!! That anyone would abuse these lovely machines like that.SMH

It won't be me. I am not going to take the bait.   

[Starpeve]

Ker- ching!!!

[Haggisman]

If he has gone on to Facebook good luck to him. If he reckoned we were bullies he ain't seen nothing yet! I wish him good luck.

[gizzo]

If he has gone on to Facebook good luck to him. If he reckoned we were bullies he ain't seen nothing yet! I wish him good luck.

I reckon! This is the politest forum I've ever come across. God help him if he tries to school someone on Dotheton or Caferacer.net . Or our all inclusive AU bike forum.

[ace.cafe]

The whole episode exhibited his total lack of knowledge of the matters at hand, while insisting he was right about his assumptions.

When he started with the claims of bullying, I knew there was no hope.
Except perhaps the hope that he doesn't return here.

[Breaker Express]

I picked up my Interceptor today and I think there is something wrong and I may have to take it back to the dealer.
With 16 miles on it I had it at 8500rpm in 1st and it got up to 95 mph in 6th.
Not sure if there is a break-in period as I haven't read the owners manual yet

I also went to watch a new movie called "Constipated" but it wasn't out yet

Happy 4th to the US and everybody ride safe.

[dcolak]

I got news!

I was getting false neutrals and bog down problem at 7000 RPM doing full throttle in 1st gear.

So, I played a bit with the clutch cable slack.

I have no more the 7000 RPM bog down in first and I am yet to be hit with the false neutral.

Now I have a problem with condensation in the instrument cluster, but that's for a different topic. 

P.S.
Guys, you paid for a motorcycle that comes with 0-7500 RPM range. Use it! 

P.P.S.
I am VERY IMPRESSED with Royal Enfield CUSTOMER SUPPORT!

In a matter of days I got a phone call from Royal Enfield giving me assistance.

Calling me on my phone, asking if I need help, that is the most impressive customer support I've experienced.

[Tinker55]

... and the crap continues...

[Breaker Express]

I am sorry Tinker55.
I could not resist.
My bad

[Mav]

And the idiot returns 

[rowdyyates]

Why do most people on here think they know best? Just let people crack on with what they want to do. If you don't agree with it then don't reply. Fuck sake. This is the most bitchy forum I have ever joined.

[gizzo]

Why do most people on here think they know best? This is the most bitchy forum I have ever joined.

That's funny. I was just saying the other day how this is the politest forum I've been on. Go figure. Other forums I use, if you be a fuckwit, you get called out as one from the get go, none of these attempts to educate you before losing patience.

Personally, I give a rats arse what old mate does with his bike. Mine sees the rev limiter regularly. But it's my bike. I don't blame other forum members taking exception to old mate's repeated demands that they abuse their new motorbikes on his behalf, for his benefit and to satisfy his curiousity. Not to mention his ridiculing them for not wishing to take part in his experiment and thinking he can school some very knowledgeable and qualified forum members (not talking about myself  ). Anyway if you come on a forum to troll, why complain when people take the bait (old mate,  not you).

[Haggisman]

It is very entertaining, I look forward to each new response. If you don't like the topic don't read it

[gizzo]

It is very entertaining, I look forward to each new response. If you don't like the topic don't read it

Me too. Like a train wreck. You can't not look. And might as well have a bit of fun.

[dcolak]

That's funny. I was just saying the other day how this is the politest forum I've been on. Go figure. Other forums I use, if you be a fuckwit, you get called out as one from the get go, none of these attempts to educate you before losing patience.

Personally, I give a rats arse what old mate does with his bike. Mine sees the rev limiter regularly. But it's my bike. I don't blame other forum members taking exception to old mate's repeated demands that they abuse their new motorbikes on his behalf, for his benefit and to satisfy his curiousity. Not to mention his ridiculing them for not wishing to take part in his experiment and thinking he can school some very knowledgeable and qualified forum members (not talking about myself  ). Anyway if you come on a forum to troll, why complain when people take the bait (old mate,  not you).

I did not know using full RPM range of a motorcycle is experimenting.

Things one learns on public forums. 

[gizzo]

I did not know using full RPM range of a motorcycle is experimenting.

Things one learns on public forums. 

Of course it is, in this context. It's an experiment to see whether your bike has a unique characteristic or that all 650s share the same trait.  But you're too pumped up with your self importance to sit back and listen when other 650 owners tell you they don't want to take part in your project, or to respect their choice to not subject their motor to the abuse you're OK with. Instead you ridicule them for being weak and wonder why no-one takes you seriously.

[oldphart]

If he has gone on to Facebook good luck to him. If he reckoned we were bullies he ain't seen nothing yet! I wish him good luck.

Ooo ooo, which facebook page? That could be quite entertaining. (why do we love train wrecks?)

[Starpeve]

I reckon! This is the politest forum I've ever come across. God help him if he tries to school someone on Dotheton or Caferacer.net . Or our all inclusive AU bike forum.
What is this AU bike forum of which you speak Sir?

[oldphart]

Starpeve, that forum'd be Netrider.net.au

It's a forum with an Australian focus so compliments this one quite nicely (for example, there aren't many RE owners on it, but there are a few of us waving the flag)

[Starpeve]

Groovy😁

[Starpeve]

✌️

[dcolak]

Of course it is, in this context. It's an experiment to see whether your bike has a unique characteristic or that all 650s share the same trait.  But you're too pumped up with your self importance to sit back and listen when other 650 owners tell you they don't want to take part in your project, or to respect their choice to not subject their motor to the abuse you're OK with. Instead you ridicule them for being weak and wonder why no-one takes you seriously.

Using the full available RPM range is experimenting? Ok. Got it.
Using the full available RPM range is abusing their motor? Ok. Got that as well.

Ridicule for being weak? I think you are projecting now. Care to provide the citation?

[twocoolgliders]

Hey there Mr. Dcolak.....

I'm on your side!  You have some interesting ideas.

Running a bike up to redline is fine....I agree with you completely on this...

The practicality of doing this for street riding is questionable....but running to redline will not hurt anything....

But.....running a 'new", low mileage engine, without break in, up to redline is not a good idea IMHO....It "may" not hurt anything, but it certainly has a good possibility of hurting the engine.

Following a reasonable, recommended break-in  procedure is a good idea.....that will guarantee you don't hurt anything....and it only take a short time and miles to do so...then have at it...

The actual shift point you use depends on what you are trying to achieve...for maximum acceleration you do need to run up to, or at least very close to, redline in every gear.

For fuel economy the recommended shift points are in the 3000 to 3900 rpm range...

For enjoyable cruising....somewhere between the two cases above...


Don't feel bullied...if someone disagrees with you....come back with actual good reasons for doing what you are doing...anyone who disagrees, should do the same.

The answer to many things is "it depends"..."there is often never any one right way"...

But what really bugs me...is when people do things, and they can't give a good reason why they are doing it...
and they claim results which are not measurable...

Keep up the comments....we might learn something!


Cookie

Using the full available RPM range is experimenting? Ok. Got it.
Using the full available RPM range is abusing their motor? Ok. Got that as well.

Ridicule for being weak? I think you are projecting now. Care to provide the citation?

[gizzo]

Ridicule for being weak? I think you are projecting now. Care to provide the citation?

Not really. I don't see a way to multi quote from the beginning to end of the thread. All the times you've said something like this:

Guys, you know nothing bad will happen to the motor if you hit rev limiter in 1st?

could be implied to mean you think the guys who won't help your investigations are too afraid to do it. When in actual fact, they just don't want to. Because they don't see the point or want to risk their running in procedures. Respect their choice.

FWIW I don't think you'll do any harm to your motor. I respect and indeed applaud your choice to flog the living shit out of it. It's fun. But unreasonable to demand other people do the same for your benefit.

[tooseevee]

  Just kidding  I'm actually enjoying this 

[dcolak]

Not really. I don't see a way to multi quote from the beginning to end of the thread. All the times you've said something like this:

Guys, you know nothing bad will happen to the motor if you hit rev limiter in 1st?

could be implied to mean you think the guys who won't help your investigations are too afraid to do it. When in actual fact, they just don't want to. Because they don't see the point or want to risk their running in procedures. Respect their choice.

FWIW I don't think you'll do any harm to your motor. I respect and indeed applaud your choice to flog the living shit out of it. It's fun. But unreasonable to demand other people do the same for your benefit.

You are projecting too much.

[Starpeve]

I have actually rev limited in first and second( once run in) out of curiosity. My question is did you blast up to the limit or did you creep up to it? You’ll get a more accurate idea of when it kicks in if you hover around that point. I can’t remember the exact rev but mine seemed to be around 7200 ish in 1st, maybe a little higher.

[olhogrider]

I have actually rev limited in first and second( once run in) out of curiosity. My question is did you blast up to the limit or did you creep up to it? You’ll get a more accurate idea of when it kicks in if you hover around that point. I can’t remember the exact rev but mine seemed to be around 7200 ish in 1st, maybe a little higher.

This was the obvious answer. In first gear the engine accelerated faster than the tach could keep up with. He was at the rev limiter before the needle hit. More people were concerned with the way he asked the question than the question being asked. And the only way you could reach redline in sixth is with the bike on the centerstand. Not many people are comfortable running a bike's back wheel at over 100 mph while still in the garage. All of this adds up to nobody taking him seriously.

[Starpeve]

This was the obvious answer. In first gear the engine accelerated faster than the tach could keep up with. He was at the rev limiter before the needle hit. More people were concerned with the way he asked the question than the question being asked. And the only way you could reach redline in sixth is with the bike on the centerstand. Not many people are comfortable running a bike's back wheel at over 100 mph while still in the garage. All of this adds up to nobody taking him seriously.

Haha😂 yes of course! He really rubbed a few nerves raw eh?