[Superchuck]

Howdy folks,

A few months back I got a second bike, a little 250 yamaha dual sport.  It's reliable and great for commuting purposes, but lacks to real soul of the Enfield, as you all already know. 

Last week my wife passed her Motorcycle Safety Foundation class and got her motorcycle license.  So now with 2 riders in the family, and 2 bikes out back, it's time we got them both in tip-top shape for some gallivanting. 

I had the Enfield out a week or two ago in a big parking lot, helping teach her the basics before the class, and in doing so, I noticed that the Enfield ('09 AVL Electra) doesn't want to shift into neutral while at a stop, no matter how hard you press the shifter.  If I roll the bike forward a tiny bit, it will shift, but very clunkily.  (and clunky for an Enfield, not just clunky compared to my japanese bike).

Any idea where I should start troubleshooting? 

Could this be that my sprag has finally shattered, and bits are getting into my (clutch plates?  gears?  I don't really know the anatomy that well)  I removed the electric start components years ago, but haven't removed the sprag itself.

That said, I was also considering putting the ES back on it so my wife can use it for in-town commuting.  But I know this has its own risks, since the sprag will eventually go.  (I have the green TCI box).

Thanks in advance, and any advice to this weird shifting is welcome! 

Chuck

[Kevin Mahoney]

The green box was the best fix the factory was able to do. There are about 10 known reasons and Lord knows how many unknown reasons that those sprags are the gift that keeps on giving for parts suppliers. The AVL's were by far the worst. The key is to eliminate any engine kickback on starting and stopping. The green box helps with starting. I own the prototype bullet ES and have been lucky.

If a sprag grenades, in theory parts can get caught between the gear that drives the primary chain and cause the sudden seizure. I am not aware of this happening though. Hitchcocks sell an inexpensive but effective delay mechanism which can be a big help. Those of us involved in trying to fix this from the factory always thought that what Alan has created was a long way toward solving the problem. There are also improved sprags available.

The neutral thing is another issue. First of all make sure that you have the clutch adjusted properly. These clutches tend to drag a bit which can cause this. Neutral can be hard to find in many cases anyway.

[Arizoni]

Hi Superchuck.

The most likely reason your motorcycle won't shift into neutral when it's stopped is, the clutch plates are dragging.  That is, they aren't fully releasing when the clutch lever is pulled in.

I'm not sure what RE recommends for the AVL's but on my newer UCE powered bike, the clutch lever should have about 2.5 mm (.10 inch) of free play (at the place where the cable connects to the lever) before resistance is felt.  If it is more than that, pulling the clutch lever in fully is still not fully releasing the clutch plates.  (If it is less than that, the clutch can slip even though the lever is fully released.)

Another thing that might be causing the clutch to drag is, you might not have enough oil in the left side engine case.  This is where the clutch and primary drive chain is located and its oil is totally separate from the oil in the engine.  Many people like to use automatic transmission fluid in the left side case because it is made for the "wet clutch plates" your clutch uses.  Most say "Type F" works best (even thought it is getting hard to find.)

Your sprag clutch is totally separate from the main clutch so it shouldn't have any effect on your shifting to neutral problem.

Another more difficult thing to fix that might be causing the problem is, the clutch plates might be warped.  This can happen if the clutch was overheated by someone who rode for long distances under full power while the clutch was slipping.

The easiest thing to do is to just remember to shift the transmission into neutral just before the motorcycle comes to a full stop.
Under normal conditions this isn't hard to do after your toe get educated.
It took me a while to learn the feel of doing this but now it is almost automatic when I'm stopping.

[Bilgemaster]

Like Jim described, with my older "Iron Belly" with a 5-Speed Lefty I've just gotten into the habit of finding neutral as she's still rolling a bit to a stop. In cases where that's not possible, if it's a little stiff, I just ride it up a few inches in first, and then it always finds neutral just fine. You don't want to just hang around at a light in gear with the clutch in. That just overtaxes and overheats the clutch. Otherwise mine shifts tip-top on the move--easily as well as either of the Norton 750s or the little BSA Victor 441 single I've had. I get few "false neutrals" between higher gears. I just chalk up the tricky neutral finding when stopped in gear to a "normal quirk"...just part of the rich tapestry of analog weirdness that is an Enfield. I wouldn't be too concerned if yours behaves similarly if there's no clutch slippage in higher gears (i.e., more throttle increases engine speed but not riding speed) or any other weirdness, though a quick clutch adjustment looksee couldn't hurt, nor a level check or replacement of the primary's fluid if it's been awhile, both of which should take only minutes. I also use the Type F Automatic Transmission Fluid, which is readily available in my local Wallyworld.

[Superchuck]

Kevin, Arizoni, and Bilgemaster,

Thanks very much for the replies.  It does sound like it's something like the clutch not fully engaging... will check the cable first. 

I'm generally fine adapting to whatever quirks my Enfield prefers, but my wife is a totally new rider, and just trying to get everything in a row so it's more approachable and user friendly to her. 

I do use ATF-F in my primary case, and it should be fine, I changed it a few months ago, and haven't noticed any leaking on the ground, etc. 

After sorting this shifting issue (and a handful of other little quirks) I will definitely check out that Hitchcocks delay thingie if I end up reattaching the ES system. 

Thanks for all the replies, and I'll report back (in a couple days?) with my findings!

Chuck

[tooseevee]

Kevin, Arizoni, and Bilgemaster,

It does sound like it's something like the clutch not fully engaging... will check the cable first. 

After sorting this shifting issue (and a handful of other little quirks) I will definitely check out that Hitchcocks delay thingie if I end up reattaching the ES system. 

Chuck

              Your finding neutral problem is (could be) the clutch not fully DISengaging, not engaging. The clutch not fully engaging is "slip".

               I have no complaints with my '08, it shifts smooth as silk, just click, click. The first season I rode it I remember thinking it was so smooth and seamless it was like the first Porsche (a 356 Bathtub) I ever drove back in the '60s; it felt like the shift lever was embedded in a piece of rubber.   

                I just naturally from the beginning on the Enfield hit neutral just before I stop. This was a long-standing habit for many years previous from dealing with harley 4-speeds.

                I'm not sure what delay Kevin's talking about (I'll ask). What I understand is that the Green TCI has the delay programmed in. From what I understood in 2009, the separate delay (which I removed from my March '08 AVL as soon as I got the Green TCI in 2010) was installed in the AVL (left side case) that came with the Black TCI. 

                Good luck with yours. I have not even started mine yet this spring. The tank is still drained and the battery out.

[tooseevee]

The green box was the best fix the factory was able to do.

 Hitchcocks sell an inexpensive but effective delay mechanism which can be a big help. Those of us involved in trying to fix this from the factory always thought that what Alan has created was a long way toward solving the problem.

           Hey, Kevin.

             If Chuck has the Green TCI, doesn't he already Have the delay?

[Adrian II]

Sorry to butt in, but the separate spark delay box was a quick-fix by the former UK RE importer for bikes with the black TCI box. The green TCI box was the later version incorporating the spark delay.

A.

[Superchuck]

Great, thanks for clarifying!

This is the most knowledgeable and helpful forum I've ever been a part of.

Thanks again,
Chuck

[tooseevee]

Sorry to butt in, but the separate spark delay box was a quick-fix by the former UK RE importer for bikes with the black TCI box. The green TCI box was the later version incorporating the spark delay.

A.

            Yes, I realize that. I just said that before in my answer to Chuck.

[heloego]

I had the same clutch release problem with my '06 AVL. Found that slipping it to Neutral just before a stop worked fine, but for me a pain remembering to do it. This worked for me, using the Service Manual.

There are two places to adjust your clutch engagement - the clutch handle, and where the cable enters the gearbox.

First verify your clutch handle has a gap of no more than 3mm between where the cable enters the handle and the boss the handle is attached to. If not, adjust it for a gap of 2-3mm. Does that fix the problem?
If not, the clutch cable, where it enters the gearbox, has a 12mm jam nut that can be loosened so you can adjust the clutch engagement there. Lift the boot to adjust. The cable ferrule at that end can be turn in or backed out with a 10mm wrench which will loosen or tighten the tension on the spring inside the g/box.

1. Remove the oval cover plate on the outside of the g/box.
2. Verify there is no slop between the ball end of the clutch cable and it's catch plate. If there is any slop you'll need to adjust the cable there at the g/box. Turn the ferrule OUT to take up the slop, then add one more flat to the turn.
3. Re-attach the access cover.
4. Re-check the gap at the handle, adjust if necessary, then take it for a check ride. If the clutch still is stiff, repeat the adjustment at the gearbox no more than 1/2 flat at a time until the shift is smooth again.

Be careful not to over-adjust. You just want it to completely release the clutch plates, not slip when engaged.

[Superchuck]

Thanks very much for these explicit instructions!  Will make my job much easier.

Cheers,
Chuck

[Adrian II]

Yes, I realize that. I just said that before in my answer to Chuck.

Sorry tooseevee, senior moment. 

A.

[Bilgemaster]

Hey 'Superchuck': Sure, this may be a wee "off-topic", but your gal might find the short artsy film Cafe Racer inspirational towards the whole riding thing--particularly the little "Gurrrrl Power" twist at the end. She'll dig it, but just hope she doesn't emulate it...

[Superchuck]

Haha thanks, we will check it out!

[heloego]

Cute .

[tooseevee]

Hey 'Superchuck': Sure, this may be a wee "off-topic", but your gal might find the short artsy film Cafe Racer inspirational towards the whole riding thing--particularly the little "Gurrrrl Power" twist at the end. She'll dig it, but just hope she doesn't emulate it...

         Joe Strummer music. Cool.