Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum

Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: FiRE Comms on January 13, 2014, 10:50:08 pm

Title: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 13, 2014, 10:50:08 pm
I checked the search to no avail, sorry if this is a repeat...

the short of it, the bike has been sitting for 3ish years only being ridden when I am home from deployment.  Well I am home now!  Back in June the battery was to weak to spin the e-start.  I had a complete loss of power about 30 miles out of town yesterday.  After ridding the wrecker home I was able to kick her to life and ride around the neighborhood before she started surging.  We limped home with the lights off... and the battery went on the charger.  I fiddled with the wires while the battery was on the charger...  Today I was able to drain the battery in no time utilizing the high beam...   spoke to the dealer they suggested a new battery ( which is out of stock until Wed, and they are a good 50 miles away).  The local AutoZone sourced me a battery that doesn't fit due to the location of the terminals...

So to the question...

What is the normally suggested replacement for our stock battery in a C5? 
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 13, 2014, 10:59:11 pm
The MotoBatt MBTX14AU is the same size and is an AGM (Abosrbed Gas Matt) type.  Compared to a standard lead acid battery these hold more energy for their size, work better in the cold, discharge far more slowly when sitting, last longer, recover better from a heavy discharge, and are more resistant to breakdown from vibration.  They're really great for motorcycles and other power sports.  If you can get this one, or any AGM, that would probably be your best bet, especially since your bike tends to sit for long periods.  They are a little more pricey. 

They may be tougher to find locally on short notice.  I ordered mine and it arrived in a few days by standard shipping.  If you can't wait you can always go for faster shipping.  Failing that, get whatever you can locally.  You just want it to be the same size with the polarity of the posts the same as what you've got.

No matter what type you get I'd recommend you remove it from the bike whenever you're away for a long time and try to get someone to put it on trickle charger a few days before you're back.

If you're in the Portland, OR area you're welcome to my old lead acid battery.  It's still serviceable.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 13, 2014, 11:08:27 pm
I should have puled it from the bike.  My lovely wife said she was going to run it for me while I was gone...  Hmm...  oh well...  Size doesn't bother me I just want to make sure I have the cranking amps necessary...  and Honestly I don't mind the lack of the e-start, lack of ANY start is another story...

Scotty thanks for the invite to your old battery but I'm in South Carolina, boy this community is great though!
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 13, 2014, 11:12:02 pm
If you don't need e-start you can get any old small battery in there.  You just need enough to run the EFI while you kick.  Also, the MBTX12U is a slightly smaller version.  It's still got enough to turn it over reliably but is much easier to fit in the tight space in a C5.  If I ever need another one that's what I'll get.  Not much battery space on these thigns.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 13, 2014, 11:14:44 pm
If you don't need e-start you can get any old small battery in there.  You just need enough to run the EFI while you kick.

So what would cause the bike to die while being ridden?  Would a weak battery itself be the culprit or do you think I have a drain somewhere?
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 13, 2014, 11:29:11 pm
Standard lead acid batteries will self-discharge a few percent a week just sitting around.  And just running the bike sitting there won't help this much.  You've got to put it on a trickle charger regularly or take it for a good ride regularly.

The charging system on these bikes isn't great.  It's not the components so much as the anemic wiring.  And most bike suck in general compared to cars. 

If you were really weak to begin with it may not charge enough while you're just putting around town stop and go.  You'd need a really good steady run with no stops at mid range RPM, like a freeway run, for a while to get a solid charge.  If you've got the 55/60W 7" headlight it will discharge even faster.  My bike will barely break even with a 55/60W headlight so I'm running a 30W unitl I can upgrade my wiring.

Batteries will usually recover fairly well from self discharge when given a solid charge.  But if a battery has been run down very low several times that can do damage that it might not recover from.  In that case you may have no choice but to replace it.

If you have a trickle charger slap it on there and see how you fair.  After a night of charging you should be able to start the bike.  If you can't I suspect the battery is done.  The stock batteries tend to crap out in 2-3 years no matter what, so you may be due.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: whoguy on January 13, 2014, 11:35:48 pm
I had the same problem... couldn't find right battery without going back to an RE one, so decided to change the wiring round and buy a slightly smaller battery available at any auto parts shop, then use cork to fill the extra space... one less thing to worry bout!
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 13, 2014, 11:39:39 pm
Lots easier to install, too ;)
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 13, 2014, 11:39:57 pm
If you were really weak to begin with it may not charge enough while you're just putting around town stop and go.  You'd need a really good steady run with no stops at mid range RPM, like a freeway run, for a while to get a solid charge.  If you've got the 55/60W 7" headlight it will discharge even faster.  My bike will barely break even with a 55/60W headlight so I'm running a 30W unitl I can upgrade my wiring.
Scott

This is where I keep scratching my head I was hauling @$$ (for an RE) cruising over 70 for over 20 min when she just died on me!?!?  If you are familiar with the Charleston area, I was on Hwy 17 South and had just left Charleston county when she died 4 lanes of open heaven and no go!
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 13, 2014, 11:41:11 pm
Do you have the stock headlight or the 7"?  Do you have a battery charger?

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 13, 2014, 11:42:06 pm
I had the same problem... couldn't find right battery without going back to an RE one, so decided to change the wiring round and buy a slightly smaller battery available at any auto parts shop, then use cork to fill the extra space... one less thing to worry bout!

Any idea what you are running now?
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 13, 2014, 11:42:32 pm
Do you have the stock headlight or the 7"?  Do you have a battery charger?

Scott

7" sealed beam

I do have a charger and killed the battery after it had been on the charger overnight.

The local parts shop has the original battery now (core)  They will give it back to me when I exchange the one they sold me that didn't fit...
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 13, 2014, 11:45:51 pm
Here is a good flowchart so that you can diagnose your charging system with just a multimeter:
https://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

If the bike had just died on the spot I would have suspected a short, but the surging would lead me to think something was marginal and then slipped over the line to failing.  If you have a charger, charge up your battery and go through the flow chart.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 13, 2014, 11:51:22 pm
If your bike is like mine, it may not be able to keep up with the larger headlight.  Some do, some don't.  When I asked around for comparison there wasn't anyone who had the 7" that didn't also use a charger all the time, so you'd never really know if you weren't keeping up.  A good battery can keep up with a day of marginal disharging easily.

Your original battery is gone but I suspect it was dead.  If you gave it a good charge and it died right after, that's that.  Check that you're new battery is fully charged when you get it, then check that it's charging with the bike running at cruising RPM.  If it doesn't charge with the headlight on turn it off and see. 

And your bike may charge just fine with the light on, just something to check ;)  Here's hoping tomorrow leads to good riding for you.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 13, 2014, 11:53:04 pm
Here is a good flowchart so that you can diagnose your charging system with just a multimeter:
https://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

If the bike had just died on the spot I would have suspected a short, but the surging would lead me to think something was marginal and then slipped over the line to failing.  If you have a charger, charge up your battery and go through the flow chart.

Scott

That's something to do tomorrow, after I get the old battery (or replacement that fits) back from the parts shop...

Thanks for you help!
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 14, 2014, 12:21:21 am
  You CAN put a smaller battery in if you intend to to kick start ONLY..... and I have.  But if you get lazy , and start using the E-start.  You will murdle-ize the battery and likely the sprag along with it, if you don't have enough cranking amps.

  Also , to go with what Scotty said. If you have been working on the battery connections..... have a look at the small black wire connection, on the ground strap side of the battery.  It's a few inches back from the connection at the battery in a snap lock connection.  If it's loose or you don't have a Good connection.... it will stop the bike in it's tracks. It's the Main EFI/ECU ground.
 
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 14, 2014, 12:26:25 am
  You CAN put a smaller battery in if you intend to to kick start ONLY..... and I have.  But if you get lazy , and start using the E-start.  You will murdle-ize the battery and likely the sprag along with it, if you don't have enough cranking amps.

GHG I assume you are in agreeance withe Scotty that it was probably a combination of the 7" and the battery sitting that is the culprit...  what should the volt meter show at the battery when running with and without headlight both at idle and running?
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 14, 2014, 12:36:54 am
All the voltage should be in the flowchart ;)  Give it a quick look through.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 14, 2014, 12:40:23 am
All the voltage should be in the flowchart ;)  Give it a quick look through.

Scott

thanks buddy, I see it now...
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 14, 2014, 12:50:39 am
GHG I assume you are in agreeance withe Scotty that it was probably a combination of the 7" and the battery sitting that is the culprit...  what should the volt meter show at the battery when running with and without headlight both at idle and running?


  Yes, I am in agreement with what Scotty said...... see above.   These bike have a WEIRD rectifier/regulator on them. And they seem dependant on load.... And there is a delay on them until it starts kicking up the voltage.  So at idle , with the Headlight off. And just checking voltage across the battery ..... your not going to see a big voltage increase.  Infact you will likely see it drop some.  When you rev the bike up steady.... there may be a delay, Then the numbers SHOULD go into the 13's.   With the headlight on... and depending on the state of charge of the battery, and the wattage on your headlight ?  You will probably be in the high 12's to low 13's .... At idle with the headlight on ?!  Put your volt meter across it and watch it die.....  The charging system on these bikes Suck  :-\  IMHO.  At least my 09 does !   I'm a big believer in the routine use of a battery tender, no matter what type of battery you use.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 14, 2014, 04:22:50 pm
UPDATE

raining here so no saddle time...

battery replaced with cheap wet cell sourced locally.

posts are switched so had to rearrange wiring but am happier.

kicks like a champ and shows 13.5+ at idle with HL on

E start works!

Thanks guys for all the help!
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Craig McClure on January 14, 2014, 04:46:07 pm
WET CELL BATTERIES TOTALLY SUCK. I quit using them some years ago when I discovered AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt) Batteries.
*WET CELLS BREED CORROSION, from corroding your battery leads, to puking on paint & chrome. Any Wet Cell under 14AH is guaranteed more likely to Puke. I think they are a waste of money.
* AGM BATTERY, 14AH Will outlast ANY wet cell, charge better, have more power, & IS TOTALLY INERT & SEALED. Kick starting is fine, but Electric start could save your life in certain traffic & Urban situations. 
GUESS YOU CAN TELL I HATE WET CELL BATTERIES, Having been victimized by them for to many years. These days any machine I like well enough to own, gets a NON-DESTRUCTIVE AGM BATTERY. I have used MOTOBATT, DEKA, & ODYSSEY AGM's & Recommend them all.  Sorry, just had to say so.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 14, 2014, 05:27:19 pm
UPDATE

raining here so no saddle time...

battery replaced with cheap wet cell sourced locally.

posts are switched so had to rearrange wiring but am happier.

kicks like a champ and shows 13.5+ at idle with HL on

E start works!

Thanks guys for all the help!

   Good deal !    And +1 to what Graig said.... I have been "burned" by them as well.  Just make sure the vent tube runs down below the bike , and in a spot where it wont drip on anything.  You may want to secure the vent tube at the battery with a zip tie, so it doesn't pop off.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 14, 2014, 05:58:08 pm
Wet cells are my least favorite battery too.  But if I was on leave with only a short time to ride I'd take what I could get.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on January 14, 2014, 06:16:32 pm
Scott -

Maybe you could clear something up for me?  Earlier you said,

The MotoBatt MBTX14AU is the same size and is an AGM (Abosrbed Gas Matt) type.

And later, you said:

Also, the MBTX12U is a slightly smaller version.  It's still got enough to turn it over reliably but is much easier to fit in the tight space in a C5.  If I ever need another one that's what I'll get.  Not much battery space on these thigns.

I'm looking at the sizing specs for both batteries (from the motobat website), and it doesn't look like the fit is right.

The MBTX14AU is 5.31" x 3.54" x 6.61" (LxWxH) and looks like this:

(http://www.motobattasia.com/product%20image/smaller/MBTX14AU.jpg)

The MBTX12U is 5.94" x 3.42" x 5.12" (LxWxH) and looks like this:

(http://www.motobattasia.com/product%20image/smaller/MBTX12U.jpg)

My B5's current battery fit is very tight in all dimensions; I don't see how a battery that is more than 1/2" longer is going to fit.  Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 14, 2014, 07:22:42 pm
Well I got the part numbers from Al (Tri750).  The MBTX14AU fits for sure, I have it in my C5 now.  It's the same size as stock and just as much of a pain to put in.  The other one is supposed to be just a bit shorter and a little easier to get in, just a shade lower on CCA.  I can't vouch for that as I don't have one.

In those pics, both batteries have a spacer clicked on to the bottom that is removable.  I don't know if the specs are with or without the spacer(s).  One of the things MotoBatt does is make a few batteries that fit many, many bikes.  One part of that is the removeable spacers and the other part is having poitive and negative posts on both sides of the battery.  If you put it in and the polarity of the posts is wrong, you just spin it around.  You hook up one set of posts and leave the little insulators on the other.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: squire on January 14, 2014, 07:25:02 pm
My Motobatt is the best battery I've ever owned....by a long shot.

I have the large one in my C5, I could take a picture if anyone is really interested. I bought it off a guy on this forum, he's in Fresno if I recall.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: squire on January 14, 2014, 07:33:19 pm
Someone on this forum posted a link to a site that tested several batteries, it was a real tough test over a year or more and the Motorbatt won hands down. It was called the Texas torture test or something similar.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 14, 2014, 07:36:49 pm
   Good deal !    And +1 to what Graig said.... I have been "burned" by them as well.  Just make sure the vent tube runs down below the bike , and in a spot where it wont drip on anything.  You may want to secure the vent tube at the battery with a zip tie, so it doesn't pop off.

I would have liked to switch over to the AGM, unfortunately I am at my wife's mercy when the RE is down.  needless to say I had to get back on the road quick...  And thanks for the reminder on the vent tube, OEM was nonexistent and I already had to clean out the battery tray once... :(
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 14, 2014, 08:03:16 pm
I would have liked to switch over to the AGM, unfortunately I am at my wife's mercy when the RE is down.  needless to say I had to get back on the road quick...  And thanks for the reminder on the vent tube, OEM was nonexistent and I already had to clean out the battery tray once... :(

   Hey, I don't blame ya one bit !  Sheeeeet..... I'm no battery Nazi ! Use what you got and get on the road  ;)
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: barenekd on January 14, 2014, 09:15:25 pm
I had a DekaVTX14AHL-BS AGM battery in mine and absolutely loved it. It fit the bike but I did have to fiddle with the connections a bit, twisting the ends about 90o.
Never required a charge even after working a on it for three weeks doing a wiring change for my headlight. Never failed to turn the bike over unless the Sprag was broken, but it even started that when it warmed up a little and the sprag would engage. Had nothing to do with the battery. I'll probably put one in the Goose when the time comes.
Bare
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: singhg5 on January 15, 2014, 06:02:22 pm
The MBTX12U is 5.94" x 3.42" x 5.12" (LxWxH) and looks like this:

(http://www.motobattasia.com/product%20image/smaller/MBTX12U.jpg)

My B5's current battery fit is very tight in all dimensions; I don't see how a battery that is more than 1/2" longer is going to fit.  Am I missing something?


SinghG5 agrees with your doubt on the size of this battery ;)!

I will stay away from this battery MBTX12U as it is too big to fit normally, standing upright, in the battery holder of RE. It may fit side-ways, which can cause other complications including wires not reaching the terminals etc.

The battery size for RE is L=5.3", W=3.5", H=6.9" or smaller ! 

However as you pointed out, MBTX14AU is correct size and will fit in RE normally. This is listed for RE and recommended by MotoBatt's website -

http://www.motobatt.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=95&year=00-03&cc=500&manufacturer_id=48&category_id=63&model_id=777
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: FiRE Comms on January 20, 2014, 03:14:32 am
My bike will barely break even with a 55/60W headlight so I'm running a 30W unitl I can upgrade my wiring.


Just curious... what head light are you running? H4 or seals beam?
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 20, 2014, 05:56:18 am
H4 30/30W.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: barenekd on January 20, 2014, 08:04:30 pm
Quote
My bike will barely break even with a 55/60W headlight so I'm running a 30W until I can upgrade my wiring.

Scotty,
Are you having battery problems or just keeping the lights bright? What battery are you running? If it's just dim lights, installing a couple of relays can cure that! I did that on mine and it really made a big difference in illuminating power! Pretty easy to setup.
Bare
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 20, 2014, 10:07:00 pm
No, the lights are plenty bright, but if I run a 55/60W bulb the battery slowly dies over time, even on long rides.  I've checked the stator.  It checks out fine statically and dynamically, both unloaded and loaded.  I checked the RR, seems fine except for that RE oddity that it only buzzes out in one direction.  I suspect there's just anemic wiring.  I plan to rewire the alternator to RR with some heavier line and also run some heavier lines from the RR straight to the battery, plus and minus.  If that doesn't do it I plan on running some headlight relays, and if that fails a replacement RR.

The thing is, with a 30/30W bulb it all works just fine and the bike runs great and the battery doesn't die.  So I got lazy and just keep riding it that way :)  Last winter was mild and I never had any down time to rewire.  This winter is wet and icky so as soon as I lube and reroute the throttle cables and install the new muffler I'll dig into the wiring.  Should just take a few nights of spare time to do.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 21, 2014, 02:10:40 am
No, the lights are plenty bright, but if I run a 55/60W bulb the battery slowly dies over time, even on long rides.  I've checked the stator.  It checks out fine statically and dynamically, both unloaded and loaded.  I checked the RR, seems fine except for that RE oddity that it only buzzes out in one direction.  I suspect there's just anemic wiring.  I plan to rewire the alternator to RR with some heavier line and also run some heavier lines from the RR straight to the battery, plus and minus.  If that doesn't do it I plan on running some headlight relays, and if that fails a replacement RR.

The thing is, with a 30/30W bulb it all works just fine and the bike runs great and the battery doesn't die.  So I got lazy and just keep riding it that way :)  Last winter was mild and I never had any down time to rewire.  This winter is wet and icky so as soon as I lube and reroute the throttle cables and install the new muffler I'll dig into the wiring.  Should just take a few nights of spare time to do.

Scott

  +1  on the rewiring the charging circuit and the better R/R unit.  I rewired mine, in 12 ga....  But unfortunately, it does not help with the charging situation.  Still a good thing to do though if you have that early Angle hair pasta harness  ::)  I think a better R/R unit is the key..... it's gotta get into the 14v's area to to efficiently charge that battery.  And that is if the stator can keep up.....
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 21, 2014, 02:48:22 am
Oregon Motorcycle Parts make some nice generic replacement units.  I've emailed with the owner and he's a nice guy.  I got the connectors for the rewire from him.  I may need the regulator.  It's the most expensive part to replace, but also the easiest. I figure I'll try the other stuff first. Even if it doesn't work they're all worthwhile upgrades.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 21, 2014, 02:54:35 am
  Yeah, most definitely worthwhile.  Let us know if you can get to doing that... be a big plus !   ;)   I have used Rick's combo units in the past... and they WILL get you into the mid 14's as soon as you touch the throttle. BUT... I haven't tried them on an Enfield and they are pretty pricey.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 21, 2014, 03:13:16 am
I'm sure one of these will fit:
http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/VRRPM.html
And all under $100.  He'll customize them too, if you want a lower max charging voltage or something like that.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 21, 2014, 03:22:55 am
I'm sure one of these will fit:
http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/VRRPM.html
And all under $100.  He'll customize them too, if you want a lower max charging voltage or something like that.

Scott


 That's a good link, thanks  ;)  A little better on the price too I believe, then Rick's.  Yeah, I would think any of the 3 wire stator jobs would do..... 

  And I am not surprised he seems to specialize in old Honda/Jap twins and singles !   They share the same .... deficiencies in the charging dept.  ::)   Ask anyone who owns or owned a old Honda twin for any length of time about their charging system AND the crap sprags on those bikes !
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 21, 2014, 03:40:15 am
Yes!  Somewhere on the site are a few stories abouth the old Japanese bike charging systems.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: crush02342002 on January 21, 2014, 03:56:26 am
id love to see some good diy write ups on charging system upgrades.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 21, 2014, 03:56:57 am
Yes!  Somewhere on the site are a few stories abouth the old Japanese bike charging systems.

Scott

  I have fixed many.....  THE only advantage to the Honda twins in that regard, even though the sprag was weaker then the Enfield, is that it is much cheaper to fix.  Honda still makes and sells the individual sprags and springs..... you just get to fix 'em more often then the Enfield  :-\

  But similar in that they are both kick and E start.  A weak charging system = a weak battery= destroying a weak sprag.   The struggling to start and violent kick back from E starting with a weak battery grenades 'em.  MUCH more violant kick back when E starting  then kick staring on those bikes.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 21, 2014, 04:19:30 am
Yup, that's how my sprag died.  Dieing battery and it kicked back.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 21, 2014, 04:37:32 am
Yup, that's how my sprag died.  Dieing battery and it kicked back.

Scott

  I DO believe one of the best things one can do for these bikes is to have a WELL charged battery.... whatever type you have.   Ideally through a better charging system..... or short of that,  regular use of battery tender.  The better battery you have.... is a bonus, but shouldn't mask what is the root cause.... It will just take a little longer to die.    I suppose that is why we are seeing those upgrades on the new bikes ! ;D    Better sprags.... better harnesses.... at least moved the R/R unit, hopefully upgraded them...... And etc....
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: barenekd on January 21, 2014, 06:18:20 pm
My sprag died as the engine quit rolling up to a stop and kicked back. I heard an ugly scrunch and new immediately what it was. It continued to work more or less for about 2 weeks until the weather got cold and it wouldn't work again until it warmed up. It wouldn't kick start worth a damn in the cold either. One last try to get it started and to the shop for a new sprag. Then crashed it on the next ride!
As for charging, mine wold easily hit 14V with the engine revved. It would do about 13.6 at idle. I think mine was a couple of years newer than Scottie's. Never  had a problem wit charging though. I got rid of the original battery for an AGM before the bike had 2000 miles on it. I don't like wet batteries that leak when they are on their side. At 2500 miles, my bike went off a cliff and was laying on its side in some tree branches. I couldn't get it until the next day, so it laid there for 24 hours. If the stock battery had been in it, the acid would have been all over the frame and such as the battery was on the top side. Actually the stock battery still resides on my work bench attached to a Battery Tender and is still working. I use it now and than to start model airplane engines.
Bare
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gremlin on January 21, 2014, 07:45:13 pm
id love to see some good diy write ups on charging system upgrades.

What with elektrickery and all - the OP would get blamed for every failed attempt to replicate his design.  not worth the headaches......
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 21, 2014, 07:57:03 pm
Well, there area few things to do that are pretty straightforward. 

You can replace the three yellow alternator wires with heavier gauge ones (12ga), run some heavy lines for plus and minus from the RR straight to the battery (10ga), relocate the RR to nearer the alternator and battery and run plus/minus lines to where it used to be to feed the main harness, and replace the RR with another unit.  Oregon Motorcycle parts makes some nice RR and will help advise you on which to choose.  They also have any connectors you might want.

There is no replacement for the stator as far as I know.  You can rewind them with different numbers of turns but usually that gets gains somewhere in the RPM and losses elsewhere.  There are a few bikes that have pages about how to do this but ours is not one. 

Other things to do are replace the starter lines with heavier gauge ones (4 or 6ga)  and run relays for the headlight straight from the battery.  These last two don't really directly affect the charging system but help bypass anemic parts of the wiring system.  The starter and headlight will work better and put less load on the battery/charging system this way.  It's pretty easy to make new battery cables or have them made.  Eastern Beaver makes a bolt on headlight relay kit for about $55, pretty easy to install.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on January 22, 2014, 02:42:46 pm
Thanks for the ideas, Scott!

Any progress on the battery cable replacements?  I'm still thinking about it, but not moving on it...
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 22, 2014, 03:31:16 pm
No, got other stuff going on right now but I should order the parts I need.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on February 11, 2014, 01:39:30 pm
My new battery, a Chrome Battery YTX14AHL-BS arrived yesterday.  It had a charge of 11.9 volts.  I attached my 750ma Battery Tender Jr. to top it off.  14 hours later, it's up to 13.9 volts, but it's still actively charging, not maintaining.

Does this sound reasonable?

Chrome Battery has a warranty, which says, in part,
Quote
Prior to installation or use, the state of charge of this battery has been maintained at a level equal to or greater than the minimum level considered necessary under industry standards for batteries to perform effectively upon their use or installation. If adjustment is necessary due to a defect in material or workmanship or state of charge below minimum industry standards prior to installation or use, and the battery is NOT MERELY DISCHARGED after installation or use, then upon return of the battery to Chrome Battery... {etc...}

I don't know what this means; I've asked for details but haven't heard back yet.  It appears that there is a difference between "state of charge below minimum industry standards" and "discharged"...
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 11, 2014, 03:18:48 pm
My Chrome read 12.5Vout of the box.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: singhg5 on February 11, 2014, 05:20:53 pm
My new battery, a Chrome Battery YTX14AHL-BS arrived yesterday.  It had a charge of 11.9 volts.  I attached my 750ma Battery Tender Jr. to top it off. 14 hours later, it's up to 13.9 volts, but it's still actively charging, not maintaining.

Does this sound reasonable?

I assume that the charger is blinking green light and still charging. It is OK to leave it ON for some more time because the initial charge of the battery was way low. The charger is sending the ions back into electrolyte solution, where they belong in a charged battery. It is good practice to charge them fully before installing as you are doing, even when manufacturer says not required to do so.

If you disconnect the charger, battery voltage will drop quickly (in a few minutes) to about 12.9-13.0V or so and will not stay at 13.9V.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gremlin on February 11, 2014, 05:39:56 pm
My new battery, a Chrome Battery YTX14AHL-BS arrived yesterday.  It had a charge of 11.9 volts.  I attached my 750ma Battery Tender Jr. to top it off. .......

I'm not familiar with that charger, does it have an AGM setting ?  If not, then, the charging algorythms are not correct for charging your new battery, and, you should expect to see some irregularities....

(quote from
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm ) As with all gelled and sealed units, AGM batteries are sensitive to overcharging. These batteries can be charged to 2.40V/cell (and higher) without problem; however, the float charge should be reduced to between 2.25 and 2.30V/cell  (end quote )

SO.....  stop the charge when you get to 14.4 volts, and, begin floating (maintaining) at 13.8 volts maximum.

After thinking about this a minute or two .......   do you even have a proper battery charger ?  perhaps what you have there is a "trickle charger".  Do yourself a favor and get something like this :

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQSIWK

Your batteries will thank you for it !
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: singhg5 on February 11, 2014, 06:02:48 pm
According to Battery Tender Jr. manual I quote "There are some non-spillable lead acid batteries on the market  ...........................    These batteries are sealed, gas-recombinant, starved electrolyte, possibly with AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) type construction. It is perfectly safe to use Battery Tender Junior and Plus Chargers to charge these type of batteries."

Only advice is not to let things overheat if battery has a defective cell and to disconnect them under such circumstances.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gremlin on February 11, 2014, 06:17:04 pm
Chrome Battery has a warranty, which says, in part,

Prior to installation or use, the state of charge of this battery has been maintained at a level equal to or greater than the minimum level considered necessary under industry standards for batteries to perform effectively upon their use or installation. If adjustment is necessary due to a defect in material or workmanship or state of charge below minimum industry standards prior to installation or use, and the battery is NOT MERELY DISCHARGED after installation or use, then upon return of the battery to Chrome Battery... {etc...}

I don't know what this means; I've asked for details but haven't heard back yet.  It appears that there is a difference between "state of charge below minimum industry standards" and "discharged"...

reworded:
The battery must be stored correctly (periodically charged) before use.
If refund is necessary because the battery is defective from material, workmanship, or improper storage before use, and not just discharged from use.
THEN
return the battery ... etc.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on February 11, 2014, 06:23:19 pm
reworded:
The battery must be stored correctly (periodically charged) before use.
If refund is necessary because the battery is defective from material, workmanship, or improper storage before use, and not just discharged from use.
THEN
return the battery ... etc.



   Seems more reasonable to me......
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gremlin on February 11, 2014, 06:24:09 pm
...... 14 hours later, it's up to 13.9 volts, but it's still actively charging, not maintaining.

Does this sound reasonable?

In a word, yes......

14 amp*hours  =/=  .750 amps * 14 hours

14 amp*hours  =  19 hours * .750 amps
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gremlin on February 11, 2014, 06:27:19 pm
My Chrome read 12.5Vout of the box.

opinion mode on:
Anything less than 11.7 out of the box is damaged.
:opinion mode off

Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 11, 2014, 06:46:57 pm
Oh, and if you pull a battery off the charger and measure it and it's way over 12.5V this may just be a 'surface charge'.  Connect the battery to the bike, turn on the ignition and headlight but DON'T start the bike.  Let it sit like that for a few minutes, then turn it off.  Check the voltage again.  It will probably be in the 12.5-12.7V range.

"For any of these methods, you must first fully charge the battery and then remove the surface charge. If the battery has been sitting at least several hours (I prefer at least 12 hours) you may begin testing. To remove surface charge the battery must be discharged for several minutes. Using a headlight (high beam) will do the trick. After turning off the light you are ready to test the battery."
http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/battery-basics.html

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 11, 2014, 06:53:47 pm
My new battery, a Chrome Battery YTX14AHL-BS arrived yesterday. 

Mattsz,
Your battery and mine are different numbers but the same physical size according to the specs on the Chrome Battery website.  When I measured my old Exide this seemed like a perfect match BUT my Chrome battery is actually about 1/4" narrower and 3/16" shorter than the battery box that was a snug fit for the Exide. 

Is your Chrome battery smaller than the battery box or is it a snug fit?

Oh, and both batteries on the Chome site have the same battery list for what they replace.  I think we may have the same battery with two different labels ;)

Thanks,
Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: singhg5 on February 11, 2014, 07:14:27 pm
This term 'Chrome' Battery had me confused. I am not familiar with this battery.

Is it a new generation of batteries made with Chromium instead of Lead ? After all there are Silver, Nickel, Cadmium, Lithium (all metals like Cr) batteries on the market. Well I kept searching and found an old reference of using Chromic Acid in the quest to generate electricity with chemicals or something of that sort.

Coming back to what Ducati and Matt really have is a lead-acid battery with a generic-brand name 'Chrome' and has nothing to do with Chrome or Chromium - learnt something new today, may be coming out of this confused state :).
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 11, 2014, 07:26:40 pm
Yeah, "Chrome" is the brand name.   These are AGM batteries.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on February 11, 2014, 10:28:47 pm
Whoa, a lot has happened here since this morning!

Here's what happened:  I checked the voltage out of the box: 11.9 volts.  I attached my small (wall wart) 750mA Battery Tender Jr and its light went red, indicating charging.  14 hours later, it still showed red.  I unhitched the charger and took a reading on the battery: 13.9 volts.  I reattached it and left it alone.

I just checked it again (8 more hours) and the charger showed green, indicating fully charged and in "maintenance" mode; I unhitched the charger again, and now the battery reads 13.2 volts.  When I reconnect the charger, it shows red again (charging), but only for a few minutes, before it goes to flashing green (almost charged) for about 15 minutes, to solid green (maintenance).

So it seems that it's topped up, and held steady by the BTJr at about 13.2 volts.  It's not on the bike - I've got it in my basement, where it's warm and dry.

Scott, I don't know how it will fit in my battery box, since I refuse to go out there into my unheated garage to test the fit!  Actual measurements with a tape measure show the new battery to be, by my eye, virtually the same size as my OEM Exide.  Interesting, since the specs for both our new batteries show them to be virtually the same size; I wonder if your OEM battery was larger than mine?

I can't understand why they have so many models that appear to have the exact same specs - ours seem to be that way, except that your'n has a 14AH capacity and 190 cold-cranking amps, and mine has 12AH and 210 CCA's.  I don't really understand what the real-world differences are for our purposes; I'm a battery virgin, and I'm just looking for advice about whether any of you more experienced guys think I might have gotten a questionable battery, or if it's just fine.

One other question: while it sits in my heated basement, is it wise to keep it trickle-charging all the time, or is it ok simply to plug it in every so often to top it up?  If the latter, how often?

ps: Singhg5 - nothing so exotic... as Scotty says, "Chrome" is simply the name of their business.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on February 11, 2014, 10:47:20 pm
Whoa, a lot has happened here since this morning!

Here's what happened:  I checked the voltage out of the box: 11.9 volts.  I attached my small (wall wart) 750mA Battery Tender Jr and its light went red, indicating charging.  14 hours later, it still showed red.  I unhitched the charger and took a reading on the battery: 13.9 volts.  I reattached it and left it alone.

I just checked it again (8 more hours) and the charger showed green, indicating fully charged and in "maintenance" mode; I unhitched the charger again, and now the battery reads 13.2 volts.  When I reconnect the charger, it shows red again (charging), but only for a few minutes, before it goes to flashing green (almost charged) for about 15 minutes, to solid green (maintenance).

So it seems that it's topped up, and held steady by the BTJr at about 13.2 volts.  It's not on the bike - I've got it in my basement, where it's warm and dry.


I can't understand why they have so many models that appear to have the exact same specs - ours seem to be that way, except that your'n has a 14AH capacity and 190 cold-cranking amps, and mine has 12AH and 210 CCA's.  I don't really understand what the real-world differences are for our purposes; I'm a battery virgin, and I'm just looking for advice about whether any of you more experienced guys think I might have gotten a questionable battery, or if it's just fine.

One other question: while it sits in my heated basement, is it wise to keep it trickle-charging all the time, or is it ok simply to plug it in every so often to top it up?  If the latter, how often?


   That seems like normal battery tender behavior.  Although, it seems like it took an awfully long time for it to get to full charge and then float in a warm basement.  I would leave the tender off for now and check the voltage tomorrow  and see where the voltage settles in at.    You should be in the upper 12's  or lower 13's......  If it drops below 12.5 and keeps going south in a relatively short time ?   Not good....
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 11, 2014, 10:50:12 pm
AGMs are lead acid but one of the advantages is they have a very low self discharge rate.  The Exide probably loses 3-4% a week just sitting there.  I'd leave the Chrome off the charger, maybe put it on the night before you plan to install it.  This is just my paranoia.  I've heard too many stories of batteries getting toasted when a trickle charger goes bad and overcharges it, so I don't tend to leave them connected indefinitely though many people do.

Also, the behavior you noticed of red, disconnect, green, disconnect for a while, then quick cycle to red, flashy red, green is pretty typical on a healthy battery with my Battery Tender Jr. too.

Mattsz, mine looked the same size sitting on the shelf next to the Exide but was obviously smaller when I put it in the battery box.  The C5 battery box is very snug for the original battery.  I sent an e-mail to Chrome Battery, so I guess we'll see how good their cutsomer service and no questions asked return policy are.

And for everyone wondering about Chrome Battery:
http://www.chromebattery.com/
http://www.chromebattery.com/motorcycle-batteries.html

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gashousegorilla on February 11, 2014, 11:09:52 pm
  This is just my paranoia.  I've heard too many stories of batteries getting toasted when a trickle charger goes bad and overcharges it, so I don't tend to leave them connected indefinitely though many people do.


Scott


  And well founded paranoia !   It's happened to me.   I once  left a tender on a battery on the bike, In a trailer  out in the cold over the entire winter.... and forgot about it.  NOT good !  That constent charging and discharging.... the tender trying to keep up with the cold I surmise?  Boiled off all the water in the battery, which was full.  It left a bit of a mess in the battery compartment.... Thank gawd I had a vent tube ran down to the bottom of the bike, or it would  have been much worse.

  In the winter, as the bikes sit. I switch around my battery tender every few days to once a week, between my bikes.... depending on how cold it is.   For a battery sitting in the house ?  I would probably stick the tender on it every week or so, then take it back off.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on February 11, 2014, 11:33:53 pm
I'll remove the charger and let it rest for a day or so.

I've got the batteries sitting next to each other on the shelf - they look the same, and by my tape measure and failing eyesight ( :o ) they are the same size.  The original is a tight fit behind my B5's square box cover; I wish my new one were a bit smaller!
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 11, 2014, 11:41:29 pm
If it's not, I'll trade you if you like :)  If it is, well then they lied to both of us ;)
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on February 12, 2014, 12:10:36 am
 ;D

I'll be happy as long as it's not a defective battery!  I'm not worried about it being a tight fit - if I can get the damn cable end terminal breakage thing sorted, it won't matter if it's a pain to get the battery in and out.  In in the spring, out in the fall - no big deal!

BTW, I got one of these on Ebay for $20, shipped:

(http://www.rollingthundercycles.com/files/2252411/uploaded/Great%20gift%20ideas%20tender%20Voltmeter%20P38070232.jpg)

http://batterytender.com/products/accessories/digital-voltage-indicator-with-lcd-display.html (http://batterytender.com/products/accessories/digital-voltage-indicator-with-lcd-display.html)

It seems like it's well made, easy to use (plugs right into the BT harness), and it measures reasonably comparably with my baby VOM, which I'm not too sure I'd trust with my life anyway: Battery Tender meter = 13.2v, VOM = 13.13v...
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 12, 2014, 06:34:13 am
I just measured the stock Exide battery and my Chrome replacement battery:

Exide Freedom 12MF 14L-A2
139mm W x 90mm D x 167mm H

Chrome Battery YB14L-A2
(14L-A2 on the label)
133mm W x 90mm D x 162mm H

So mine is 6mm narrower and 5mm shorter than the Exide

I checked the Chrome Battery website for the battery I got and the one Mattsz got:
Mine - YB14L-A2
    12 V
    14AH
    168 Watts
REPLACES
Sears 44005, UTX14AHL-BS, EXT15L, PTX14AHL-BS, GT14L-BS, M62H4L, CTX14AHL-BS
Length    5.31
Width    3.58
Height    6.57

Mattsz's - YTX14AHL-BS
    12 V
    12AH
    144 Watts
REPLACES
Sears 44005, UTX14AHL-BS, EXT15L, PTX14AHL-BS, GT14L-BS, M62H4L, CTX14AHL-BS
Length    5.31
Width    3.54
Height    6.57

Converting the listed dimensions of my battery to mm, it ends up 138.74mm x 90.932mm x 166.878mm.  By the specs it's a dead on match for the Exide, but it's not when measured.  I have some 1/4" kayak seat foam which can take up the extra space nicely if need be.

The listed size specs on the two batteries are nearly identical but mine is listed as 14Ah and Matsz's is 12Ah.  All else being equal in batteries, size is power, so I can't believe that difference.

So, not sure if I got the wrong battery or if the listed specs are wrong.  I'm also curious to see if Mattsz's is the same or if his really is a dead on match for the Exide.  I guess we'll know once it warms up enough for him to make it to the garage with a ruler ;)

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on February 12, 2014, 10:18:05 am
Scott, you must have missed my previous post...

I've got the batteries sitting next to each other on the shelf - they look the same, and by my tape measure and failing eyesight ( :o ) they are the same size.  The original is a tight fit behind my B5's square box cover; I wish my new one were a bit smaller!

The Exide isn't out in the garage, it's warm and dry in my basement.  My two batteries are the same size, certainly within 1mm in all dimensions... except for the Exide's little tab sticking out of the top, which apparently is for a drain pipe (although mine is sealed and has no drain hole there).
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: JVS on February 12, 2014, 10:22:06 am
Scott, you must have missed my previous post...

The Exide isn't out in the garage, it's warm and dry in my basement.  My two batteries are the same size, certainly within 1mm in all dimensions... except for the Exide's little tab sticking out of the top, which apparently is for a drain pipe (although mine is sealed and has no drain hole there).

Same as mine!
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 12, 2014, 01:31:27 pm
Ah!  Sorry, I did miss that.  Guess I'll be returning mine and getting yours.  My Exide just has a tiny vent too.  No hook up for a drain tube.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gremlin on February 12, 2014, 03:33:06 pm
.........The listed size specs on the two batteries are nearly identical but mine is listed as 14Ah and Matsz's is 12Ah.  All else being equal in batteries, size is power, so I can't believe that difference...........

My Triumph uses the 14 AH variety of this battery (with reversed lugs).

I researched this once, awhile ago, and the 12AH battery uses a thicker set of plate connectors for vibration resistance.  That makes the two batteries virtually identical in size.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 12, 2014, 04:19:50 pm
I tried to decipher battery codes last night but couldn't figure out which bit correlated to size, or what the standard sizes were.  I think the AH in Msttsz's battery may mean a slightly different size for the same capacity.  I'm getting email responses drone Chrome so I hope it will all be sorted shortly.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Craig McClure on February 12, 2014, 05:12:37 pm
Pretty confusing. Are these "Chrome" batteries AGM's ? I wouldn't pay out a dime for a destructive, corrosion causing, Wet Lead Acid Battery. Only an AGM for my equipment.
Also, the specification for an electric start UCE Enfield is a 14AH battery.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 12, 2014, 05:21:54 pm
Supposed to be, but the description is a bit vague and I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a gel.  I'll have to ask cutomer service.  Either way, good for the price and arrives charged and ready to go.  No need to deal with filling it with electrolyte.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gremlin on February 12, 2014, 06:47:24 pm
Supposed to be, but the description is a bit vague and I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a gel.  I'll have to ask cutomer service.  Either way, good for the price and arrives charged and ready to go.  No need to deal with filling it with electrolyte.

Scott

Scott - the chrome batteries being discussed thus far are AGM.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 12, 2014, 07:16:59 pm
I believe mine is too.  Just not sure because the text on the site is a bit vague and the price was less than a lead acid flooded battery at the local shop.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gremlin on February 12, 2014, 09:19:08 pm
excerpt from website....  http://www.chromebattery.com/ytx14-bs-high-performance-power-sports-battery.html

Motorcycles use the oldest and most reliable type of rechargeable battery, the Lead Acid battery. Chrome Battery offers a large inventory of 14-BS motorcycle batteries to replace your existing battery. AGM Sealed Lead Acid batteries are considered the highest performing battery available on the market today. Each Chrome Battery YTX14-BS Maintenance Free and Fully Charged motorcycle battery is constructed with lead calcium alloy and absorbed glass mat technology, which allows a completely 'maintenance-free' operation.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 12, 2014, 09:52:58 pm
Well, there it is then :)  Thanks for the clarification.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Craig McClure on February 13, 2014, 02:03:20 am
WOW $43. for an AGM battery is a spectacular bargain price.  I'd like to hear how it holds up, so I can get one next time.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on February 13, 2014, 10:11:24 am
Well, Craig, you can see how it's going so far...  ;D
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 13, 2014, 06:31:28 pm
It turns out the specs on the web for what I ordered were incorrect.  They're giving me a pre-paid return shipping label and a full refund.  Nice people, good service.  I'll be ordering the battery Mattsz got later today.

UPDATE: Got the new label via e-mail, hope I still have the original box.  I already ordered the new one, same model Mattsz got.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on February 14, 2014, 01:05:25 am
Craig sez:

Quote
Also, the specification for an electric start UCE Enfield is a 14AH battery.

The YTX14AHL-BS, which I ordered based on some other forum members' ordering, is listed at 12AH.  How big a deal is this?
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 14, 2014, 01:55:17 am
Well, the two batteries we're discussing here are listed as. 144 and 168 Watts, 12AH and 14AH.  they're nearly identical in size and the same type if battery so I don think that big if a difference is possible.  12AH should be plenty, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's really more and that's a misprint on the site too.  We're in the same boat now anyway :)

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: DanB on February 14, 2014, 02:19:04 am
I wouldnt worry about 12AH vs 14AH.  I'd watch the CCA rating which is fine for the RE starters, but the 2 Ah difference is minimal -- 24Wh.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: singhg5 on February 14, 2014, 03:56:02 am
Even Yuasa battery YTX14AHL-BS is 12AH. It was expensive at the dealer.

So I ordered its equivalent AGM sealed 'Scorpion' from BatteryStuff.com on the internet. It was $66 including shipping. Good service and it looks pretty good. Have it only for a few months but it does not seem to loose charge quickly. Will see how long it lasts. 
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 19, 2014, 05:16:42 am
I got the YTX14AHL-BS today.  It measured 12.7V out of the box. 

It's actually 1-2mm smaller in all dimensions than the YB14L-A2, and smaller than the spec on the site by a few mm.  So it looks like both batteries are a bit smaller than the original Exide.  I already have an RMA for the YB, but the YTX has folded plate metal terminals while the YB has cast lead.  I'd rather have the lead, they look a bit more sturdy.  I'll e-mail and see what they say.

I did manage to get some HD battery straps that are 10" long for $7 each;  HD part# 66017-01.  The stock RE straps are 13" long and never really held the battery snugly.  These should do better.  With that and a little closed cell kayak seat foam I'm sure it will stay in place.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on February 19, 2014, 11:08:34 am
Scott-

I'm really starting to wonder about these specs!  Like I said before, it was kind of hard to see well, but I really think my YTX14AHL-BS size is closer to the old than yours is.  I think I would have noticed 2mm smaller, but maybe not 1mm!  Anyway, mine has terminals that look just like those shown in the pics above, posted by Singhg5 - lots of holes for cable mounting choices (and lots of nuts, and bolts of different lengths, and washers!).  Are these the cast lead terminals of which you speak?  Yours must be different - it's starting to sound like they work with different manufacturers.  Or, we got batteries from different lots - mine did arrive in quite a discharged state.

My battery straps have always been very difficult to install; very tight, and the "hooks" for the loop ends are really buried behind the battery when it's in place...
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: tooseevee on February 19, 2014, 01:36:56 pm

My battery straps have always been very difficult to install; very tight, and the "hooks" for the loop ends are really buried behind the battery when it's in place...

           When I still had the huge battery in my '08 AVL I had the same problem. My old ruined fingers could not deal with getting the straps hooked. Impossible.

            I found it way easier to have the straps hooked & to jam the battery INTO the looped rubber. The cover was still usually a battle to get locked, also, especially down on my knees. I hated that cover & almost took a hammer to it

            I got rid of the whole thing; the huge battery, the 4 pound bracket, the impossible-to-lock-without-a-battle battery cover AND the straps. I put a tiny battery in the right side case (which locks easily. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 19, 2014, 02:42:39 pm
The first battery I received had cast lead terminals like those in singhg5's picture.  The second one had all the same mounting holes but they're made from bent copper plate, not cast lead.  Yeah, I think they may be using different manufacturers.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 19, 2014, 06:03:56 pm
           When I still had the huge battery in my '08 AVL I had the same problem. My old ruined fingers could not deal with getting the straps hooked. Impossible.

Even with the long straps I've always had it's a pain to get them on.  The hooks are in the back and barely accessible.  I don't imagine it's going to be easier with the new straps.  They're shorter and stouter so they need to be stretched more but they don't have the little tab at the end to help.  I guess we'll see.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: barenekd on February 19, 2014, 06:05:05 pm
Quote
I hated that cover & almost took a hammer to it

I did take a hammer to a couple of my covers, one, the hot dog warmer tool cover. That thing was nearly impossible to lock. I finally got out the big pliers and hammer and did a bit of custom fitting and got the recalcitrant ones to fit quite easily. I even had to bend the pins slightly on the battery cover.
Bare
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 19, 2014, 06:14:35 pm
I find the tab on the bottom of the C5 battery cover that holds the lock bends away quite easily.  Once it does the lock just won't line up.  Easy enough to bend back though.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: azcatfan on February 19, 2014, 06:37:18 pm
Even with the long straps I've always had it's a pain to get them on.  The hooks are in the back and barely accessible.  I don't imagine it's going to be easier with the new straps.  They're shorter and stouter so they need to be stretched more but they don't have the little tab at the end to help.  I guess we'll see.

Scott

On other bikes E've gone without  the rubber straps and just tied the battery down, under the cover it cannot be seen anyway.  Just cut some lengths of old inner tube and tie'em down.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: gremlin on February 19, 2014, 08:16:48 pm
I find the tab on the bottom of the C5 battery cover that holds the lock bends away quite easily.  Once it does the lock just won't line up.  Easy enough to bend back though.

Scott

same on my B5.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Royalista on February 19, 2014, 08:43:25 pm
Has anyone tried the Motobatt MB12U 15Ah already?
With it 135*80*161mm dimensions it should make an easy fit.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 19, 2014, 09:06:05 pm
I think that's the one I got originally, though I'd have to check the number.  It was a perfect fit.  Unfortunately I fried it through my own stupidity. :(

UPDATE:  No, I had the MBTX14AU.  It was the exact same size as stock.  Tri750 told me the MBTX12U was a bit smaller and easier to install but still had plenty of power to start the bike.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Royalista on February 19, 2014, 11:21:34 pm
Thanks, I think that's going to be my next one.
I'm not dissatisfied with the Exide. But its size makes closing up after putting it back a big hazzle; and each time I have to touch up the inside of the covers.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 24, 2014, 09:25:23 pm
So I'll be keeping the battery they originally sent me and sending back the second one.  Customer service set it all up and got me a shipping label to return the second battery.  Both of them are a bit small but the first one is a bit larger and has the more sturdy looking cast terminals.  With a little foam and the shorter Harley straps I'm sure it will sit in there just fine.  Now to get on with the rest of the projects I need to finish to get it on the road...

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on February 25, 2014, 03:35:36 am
So, Scott - does that mean you ended up with the YTX14AHL-BS?  I can't remember!  If so, we've both got the same part number battery but different sizes?  Huh.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 25, 2014, 04:30:17 am
I got the A2 first, then the BS.  Both were smaller than listed, the BS was the smaller of the two.  It also had corrosion and less sturdy looking terminals.  So I'll keep the A2 even though it's a bit small. And yeah, looks like we got the same part # but with different dimensions.

On any other bike I probably wouldn't have noticed or cared, but with the C5 it's critical to have the right height to keep it snug in there.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: suitcasejefferson on March 11, 2014, 01:20:25 am
These bikes do come with the old fashioned non maintenance free batteries don't they? That is what mine came with. Name on it is Fiamm. When I first got the bike I noticed that all cells were not filled correctly, and the vent hose was missing. I filled it up to the top line with distilled water, and installed a piece of fish tank hose on it for a vent. The YTX14AHL-BS is the same size my Vulcan 750 uses. I'll have to compare them. And yes those straps are a PITA.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Craig McClure on March 11, 2014, 01:45:26 am
Hey Suitcase, I religiously remove & shitcan all primitive lead acid batteries from my machinery, Because THEY WILL CORRODE SOMETHING - 100% GAURANTEED. I replace them with AGM only & then enjoy the next four years non-corrosive service. You will be glad you did this.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: suitcasejefferson on March 11, 2014, 01:53:52 am
Hey Suitcase, I religiously remove & shitcan all primitive lead acid batteries from my machinery, Because THEY WILL CORRODE SOMETHING - 100% GAURANTEED. I replace them with AGM only & then enjoy the next four years non-corrosive service. You will be glad you did this.

I totally agree, but hate to throw away a brand new battery. This has been my solution to the corrosion issue  http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/291008291370?lpid=82  You can buy them, or make your own. It makes sure no acid gets on any part of the bike. I have several changes planned for the next few months, and the battery will probably be one of them.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on March 24, 2014, 01:56:53 pm
I finally installed my new battery - using the original wiring - it works fine, but from a fitment standpoint it's very much worse.

I placed them side-by-side, and the two batteries are exactly the same dimensions.  But the "universal" nature of the terminals makes it even harder to fit the new battery in the space allotted, including fitting the cover.  The clamping screws stick out differently than the originals, leaving the terminals awfully close to actual metal bike parts.  And the original rubber terminal covering boots don't fit the new configuration, either.

Scott, do you have any pics of how you placed your cables on the battery?
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on March 24, 2014, 02:11:10 pm
I haven't put it in yet.  I figured I'd try the old one first just to make sure all the desiring went right.  I'll get pics when I do it soon.

Still puzzled how your battery was spot on size match and mine is smaller.  Happy to trade if you like.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: cstorckiii on March 24, 2014, 11:47:51 pm
I went with a Ballistic Performance 8 cell Lithium in a repro 6V plastic battery box. It's been in over a year, and I've yet to have an issue with it,
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: suitcasejefferson on March 25, 2014, 12:12:57 am
I discovered that the XTA14AHL-BS Xtreme Permaseal AGM Battery from Batteries Plus (which is what my Kawasaki Vulcan 750 uses) does indeed fit my 2013 RE B5, but there is a slight issue with the terminals. The terminals on this battery have two was of connecting the cables. The bolts can either go in from the top, or from the side. On the Kawasaki, they go in from the top, and on the Enfield they go in from the side. The side that faces the bike, and is awfully close to the frame. I believe a slight modification to the Enfield's cable ends with a Dremel will make them fit right.

Batteries Plus only has the old fashioned flooded type battery listed for the Enfield, I can't find a sealed type anywhere specifically listed for it. I can't figure out why they are still using that type of battery in 2014. Maybe the sealed type is not available in India. My '09 Genuine Stella scooter, made in India, also came with one of these batteries.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Arizoni on March 25, 2014, 01:13:31 am
Can you turn the battery around so the cable attachments are on the outside?

Below is a picture showing how the dealer installed the battery on my 2011 G5.

Also shown are several lengths of vinyl and rubber tubing that I installed over wires that were close to sharp metal edges.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: suitcasejefferson on March 25, 2014, 01:34:14 am
Your setup is completely different from mine. Mine has the battery terminals facing the bike, and the cables are not long enough to turn it around. It also has nothing in front of the battery, and the battery is retained with 2 rubber straps. Because the cables are so short, it is very difficult to attach the terminals because you can't pull the battery far enough away from the bike to make room. I stuck some cardboard behind the loose nuts in the battery terminals to hold them in place. I had them fall out a couple times while trying to get the bolts started.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on March 25, 2014, 01:58:55 am
Can you turn the battery around so the cable attachments are on the outside?

I don't see how, without the cover interfering with or shorting out the terminals.  It's a tight fit behind that rectangular battery cover - I think the G5's cover is different?
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: suitcasejefferson on March 25, 2014, 02:10:59 am
Mine has the rectangular black battery cover, the one with the sticker with a picture of a cannon on it.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Arizoni on March 25, 2014, 04:15:19 am
Yah.  I'm sure the covers are different but I just thought I'd ask the question. :)
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on March 25, 2014, 06:42:56 am
I don't see how, without the cover interfering with or shorting out the terminals.  It's a tight fit behind that rectangular battery cover - I think the G5's cover is different?

+1.  On the C5 there is a cover that would be right over the positive terminal.  With it installed with the terminals in, the negative terminal is to the rear and close to the frame.  Who cares if ground is close to the frame?  Positive has some nice room around it, not near any grounding points or anything.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: enfielddan on May 08, 2014, 10:03:35 pm
I would like to get a replacement battery for my 2012 C5 with sidecar and the new battery has to be a non-acid/non-lead type.  I was hoping to get the Motobatt AGM battery from Big Al out of the Fresno dealership as he was giving a deal on them to the forum members.  But it seems he is no longer there. Does anyone know where he went to?  Or where I can get a battery that would fit my bike and my requirements?
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on May 08, 2014, 10:16:20 pm
So couple of things...

I think Al is still there, or at least he was a few months ago when I contacted him, but that won't help anyway since the shop lost their MotoBatt distributor.

Second thing, an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) is a lead acid battery, but instead of having waffle lead plates in a liquid or gel acid soultion the acid/electrolyte is held captive in a glass matt and the lead plates are more like foil.  The metal foil and glass matt are rolled up together and then placed in the case.  Additionally, there is no venting and they can be mounted in any orientation without fear of a spill.  Gases generated during charging are kept under pressure in the battery case until they are re-absorbed later.  AGMs are lead acid but may have a little more power for their size and generally last longer, in part because they don't vent and are more resistant to vibration.

There are other types of batteries like lithium iron phosphate and such.  These are a different animal altogether, and there are several different kinds currently available with similar but different names, lithium ion vs. lithium iron, etc.  They tend to be much smaller and lighter than lead acid for the same cranking power and do not require a vent.  They can also be more sensitive to charging voltage and may not work as well at lower temperatures if that is a concern for you.

You should be able to find MotoBatt online and order one shipped right to your house.  I did.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Arizoni on May 09, 2014, 01:15:26 am
As the designers of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner found, the lithium batteries can be sensitive to charging rates too.

Of course on a motorcycle there isn't much chance of filling the cabin with smoke at 35,000 feet. ;)
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Bulletman on May 09, 2014, 01:45:48 am
id love to see some good diy write ups on charging system upgrades.
+1
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: suitcasejefferson on May 09, 2014, 02:28:40 am
At this point, I cannot recommend anything but some type of lead/acid battery for car/motorcycle use. The technology is just not there to make any other type of battery reliable for motor vehicles.

And be careful about batteries from Batteries Plus. I have had several, and had problems with every single one of them. They have never refused to replace them, but it just isn't worth the hassle. I just got a warranty replacement for the $114 AGM battery in my Vulcan 750, which was less than 6 months old. It worked fine up until recently, then it got to where it wouldn't charge. I tried charging it at one amp, the charger got hot, and the circuit breaker was cycling. I hooked a battery tender jr. to it, and within 2 hours it got really hot, then blew the inline fuse. They could not find anything wrong with it. I told them what was happening, and to keep it and try to charge it. Instead they just gave me a new one. I doubt they will ever try to charge that one, they probably knew it wasn't any good. So now I have another one of their batteries. Wonder how long it will last? If it fails right away, I'm not taking it back, I'll just get my batteries somewhere else.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: olhogrider on May 09, 2014, 12:11:16 pm
My XT 225 had a Lithium-iron (not ion, weird huh?) battery in it when I bought it. It is tiny and cranks just great. I understand that these new batteries require special chargers. I never let a bike sit long enough to need a charger but a Battery Tender is a no-no on these.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Craig McClure on May 09, 2014, 06:26:56 pm
You will find a bunch of AGM batteries on line if you Google "AGM MOTORCYCLE BATTERIES". I have had good experiences with DEKA, MOTTOBAT, ODYSSEY.  MOTTOBAT being the cheaper of the 3. The main thing to look for is a good replacement Warrantee, 14AH capacity, correct size & terminal location.
  AGM's are stronger, & will outlast other batteries, & Never ever puke on your machine. I Love-em!
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: hogdad on May 09, 2014, 10:02:28 pm
My 2012 C5 Military battery was dead this spring after being on a smart charger this past winter. I bought the bike new July 2013.

I called my dealer 33 miles away, and they said although the battery was only 9 months old, it was not covered under my 2 year warranty. They had none in stock but they should have one in 10 days or so for about $115.00.

Not good enough!

I checked NFieldgear's Site and purchased the upgrade AGM, maintenance free type, and an exact fit, for about $70.00 plus shipping.

I ordered it on a Saturday via on-line, it shipped on Monday and arrived at my door in Connecticut on Friday.

Like the ad says, "No muss, No fuss.

Barry
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Arizoni on May 09, 2014, 11:35:28 pm
I've read a lot of stories about various trickle chargers screwing up motorcycle batteries.
It doesn't seem to be just one brand of charger that does it either.

I know these little chargers don't put out much current and they supposedly monitor the battery charge but for some reason many of the battery's they've been attached to die a quick death.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: hogdad on May 12, 2014, 11:30:51 pm
I agree with Arizoni.

The new NFieldGear battery I received last month is an AGM maintenance free, and the instructions have a warning to remove it shortly after charging, and not to keep in on a smart charger once it is fully charged.

I will remember that from now on.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: squire on May 13, 2014, 02:08:24 am
Mmmm. I have four bikes all with AGM batteries and always use smart chargers, even after each ride, and have had no issues. I routinely get 8-10 years service from a battery. Excluding the battery that came with my RE of course:)
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on May 13, 2014, 02:47:41 am
Smart chargers work until they don't.  One failure and they'll overcharge and kill a battery, and possibly spill acid all over your bike.  It's rare but there are plenty of reports on the web.  There's not much difference in battery life from top up charging a day or two month and leaving it on full time.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Sectorsteve on May 13, 2014, 03:16:37 am
I'm using the moto batt. Really good battery, fits perfectly. Bought it from a battery shop so there was no issue of whether it would fit or not.
I'm not going to ride my bike for 5 weeks. Will the be ok?
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Craig McClure on May 13, 2014, 04:25:36 am
HARBOR FREIGHT sells a nice little float charger for about $12. I adapted it to a plug & pigtail set I have wired to my Battery terminals. I simply plug it in every couple of weeks for a day or so. The little float charger is weak & slow enough that it won't hurt any battery.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on May 13, 2014, 05:31:35 am
I'm using the moto batt. Really good battery, fits perfectly. Bought it from a battery shop so there was no issue of whether it would fit or not.
I'm not going to ride my bike for 5 weeks. Will the be ok?

Probably.  But if you have a trickle charger put it on the night before you roll out. 

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Sectorsteve on May 14, 2014, 02:38:12 am
I don't have a trickle charger...
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Ducati Scotty on May 14, 2014, 04:20:45 am
I'm sure a kick start or push start will do, but again, you'll probably be fine.  My original battery would last that long.

Scott
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: hogdad on May 14, 2014, 10:35:37 pm
I know these little chargers don't put out much current and they supposedly monitor the battery charge but for some reason many of the battery's they've been attached to die a quick death.
I know these little chargers don't put out much current and they supposedly monitor the battery charge but for some reason many of the battery's they've been attached to die a quick death.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Sectorsteve on May 14, 2014, 11:51:50 pm
my motobatt is fairly new so im not too worried. should be right...
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: mattsz on August 05, 2014, 12:20:06 am
Ok, guys, I know it's been awhile, but...

There's a number of posts in this thread expressing concern about float chargers damaging AGM batteries.  So I decided to contact Chrome Battery, the guys who Ducatti Scotty and I bought our batteries from.

It's taken awhile (only 3 months!), but after a little nudging, I finally heard back from them:

Quote
I deeply apologize for the delay in getting back with you. With regards to the charging and use of these on AGM batteries it is more than okay to use them with these batteries. We currently use our Xtend smart chargers over and over again at our warehouse and never once has one damaged a battery. I mean there are bad chargers out there that can damage and destroy your battery. Our Xtend Chargers or the Battery Tender's as well as the Shumaker brand are very reliable chargers and will work great with your AGM battery.

Nothing about leaving them connected long-term vs. occasional use, but I just thought I'd let you know where one supplier stands.

Since installing my AGM, I've plugged in my Battery Tender Jr. about once a month, "whether it needs it or not", and each time, it charges and goes into "maintenance" mode within 20 minutes.  The charger will be put to work during winter storage, but only occasionally...
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Craig McClure on August 05, 2014, 05:09:14 pm
I have been using my Harbor Freight $12. float charger perhaps 12 hours every few weeks if I wasn't riding much. I did so again about a week before we moved out of state. Since then, my bike has been in a storage facility, waiting until we find a home. I went over there last week(over a month after last charge) It started right up, & I took a nice ride to top off the Deka AGM Battery. G5 Deluxe, & Deka AGM worth every penny.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: olhogrider on August 06, 2014, 10:43:28 pm
Anyone have experience with AntiGravity brand? They claim to be the smallest.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: rattonshaw on September 23, 2021, 10:05:15 am
I need some advice on replacing the battery on my newly acquired and first Royal Enfield, a 2014 Bullet Electra 500.  I’ve read through all 10 pages of this thread, but haven’t found a definitive answer.

I’ve a few bikes in the garage, some of which are used only now and again so it makes sense to me to have one battery that I can swop between two of the bikes on a need to basis.  The two bikes in question are the 2014 Electra and a 1992 Suzuki GS500.  The Electra battery is a 14 Ah, CCA 200 and 167 mm high.  The GS500 (currently with no battery) can take an AGM MB10U, 14.5 Ah, CCA 175 of 146 mm height. 

To me, the MB10U with CCA 175 should work well enough in the Electra.  Why does the Electra (indeed all EFI models) need such a high CCA?  For instance, the battery on my Triumph Scrambler 1200 is an 8.6 Ah, CCA 190.  Admittedly, the Triumph is a twin cylinder, but at any one time, the battery is still having to supply current to crank over one of the 600 cc cylinders.

The MB10U also has the advantage of a reduced height of 21 mm so no worries about the battery positive terminal shorting on the frame tube.
Title: Re: Replacement Battery?
Post by: Haggis on September 23, 2021, 10:27:58 am
MB10 will more than likely be fine.
I use a Motobatt MB12U instead of the recomended 14U for exactly the reasons you mention. The 12U is a few mm smaller than the 14U and allows more room for cables and connections.