Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: Hansel on November 22, 2012, 12:14:22 am
-
Would somebody mind popping their battery cover off their bike and taking a picture of how the battery cables are routed?mainly the positive cable is what im looking for... i put a new battery in mine today and no matter what i tried the wire just looked bent funky.
Thanks for the help!
-
Yes it is quite bent up. Top rightish.
-
mines a good flush fit
(http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac278/wildbill2010/P1040565.jpg)
-
Very neat me thinks ^
-
So it looks like your guys positive cable runs behind the frame?
Here are pictures of how mine is... let me know if it looks jacked up at all!
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d196/dk009/photo-5.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d196/dk009/IMG_0095.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d196/dk009/IMG_0096.jpg)
-
Yes, if not the frame, it is at least hidden behind the cover. Try re-routing it from behind the battery by moving the battery aside momentarily and adjusting the cable accordingly.
-
Ideally the negative terminal should have been towards the fuel pump side, because the battery fluid inspection markings would be visible . I do not understand why the batteries have to placed the "wrong" way on the C5.
-
Yes it is quite bent up. Top rightish.
I don't have a pic, but on my B5, the + cable comes up from the lower rear, wedged between the battery and the frame of the box. I left it there.
-
Just to add some confusion to the madness, here is a picture of the wire routing on my G5.
-
The positive should run behind the battery in the C5....between the battery case and the rear frame of the battery carrier to keep it from snagging and moving/chaffing with the vibrations. The 2 rubber straps around the battery also help to keep the wire snug between the battery and the frame.
-
Ideally the negative terminal should have been towards the fuel pump side, because the battery fluid inspection markings would be visible . I do not understand why the batteries have to placed the "wrong" way on the C5.
I disagree. On my C5 the positive terminal is toward the fuel pump. This puts it toward the inside of the bike donuts easier to route the cables and away from both the cover and the frame so it won't short. I have seen the run the other way. I wish RE would standardize this routing.
Scott
-
I disagree. On my C5 the positive terminal is toward the fuel pump. This puts it toward the inside of the bike donuts easier to route the cables and away from both the cover and the frame so it won't short. I have seen the run the other way. I wish RE would standardize this routing.
Scott
+1
I think it is better to have the battery terminals toward the inside, away from the battery cover. Seems like the owners manual shows it the other way.
-
My owner's manual shows the battery cables on the outside, but, in reality, the cables are on the inside. Frankly, I kinda wish they were on the outside, I may try to turn it around. It would be a lot easier to measure voltage and hook up a charger and stuff if the posts were on the outside! Not that I've needed to hook up a charger. But then I'd have to reroute my "direct to the headlight" hot wire. On the other hand it might assist in routing the fuel pump and Fuel Low Light wires.
Ah, just another fiddly job for the bike. Never can seem to get all those done!
Bare
-
You didn't notice?
In the little picture link I posted up above, the battery terminals on my 2011 G5 are on the outside where they are easy to get to.
The red positive was attached with the wire terminal pointing outward away from the bikes center. In this position, it was rubbing on the inside of the side cover so I rotated it to the forward position shown in the photo.
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15551.0;attach=16672;image
-
"direct to the headlight" hot wire.
What's that? What's it for?
Scott
-
Arizoni-
What's that cylindrical item that your heavy + cable runs into? I don't got me one of them...
-
That is the electric starter solenoid.
It's mounted in a rubber sleeve.
-
That is the electric starter solenoid.
It's mounted in a rubber sleeve.
Huh. I wonder where mine is? Aren't they usually attached to the starter motor? Maybe I need to brush up on my sprague clutch theory...
-
Find the large red wire connected to the + terminal of the battery.
Follow it. It will lead you to the solenoid. If you loose track of it, start at the starter motor and follow the large wire. It will lead you to the other side of the solenoid.
-
I wasn't real thrilled about the way the battery cables where hooked up to my iron either..Just this past summer, I took a dremel (using the small cutting blade) , put the metal battery cover on the vice and proceeded to cut out a small section on both sides to ensure that the cover although attached wouldn't have a way to brush up against the wire/battery post connections...By doing so it also made it easier to not have the cable make such a tight turn to secure it to the posts ..I slipped a battery boot over the positive connection and tied the end of the boot with a small cable tie....It doesn't look bad and better than not having the metal battery cover and just straps...I guess for prosperity sake, I could just purchase another cover and have it lay in the Enfield spares box if I ever wanted to ensure that period correct unadulterated look. It just got to the point that the vibrations and fear of Mr. Sparky finalized my decision after 6 years. Probably a overreaction but its done ..GM
-
Huh. I wonder where mine is? Aren't they usually attached to the starter motor?
Starter solenoids are seldom attached to the starter any more. Very old school. In the old days the solenoid pulled the starter gear out to engage it with the flywheel. Nowadays, they use a centrifugal clutch built into the starter, so spinning the starter forces the gear out. That allows the use of a remote solenoid.
Bare
-
Sorry for the hijack...
Starter solenoids are seldom attached to the starter any more. Very old school. In the old days the solenoid pulled the starter gear out to engage it with the flywheel. Nowadays, they use a centrifugal clutch built into the starter, so spinning the starter forces the gear out. That allows the use of a remote solenoid.
Bare
Ok, that makes sense, but in that case, is it a solenoid? I've always thought that a solenoid, in its most basic form, was a device that, when you put electricity into its coil, a resulting magnetic field would pull, or push, on a rod or spindle or some other such actuating arm, which would physically engage or disengage some useful mechanical part... hence the old-school (and, as far as I know, current-school in automobiles) starter solenoid "pulling the starter gear out to engage it with the flywheel".
If the spinning starter engages the engine without that device, what the heck is our "solenoid" for? Incidentally, I found mine, aft and inboard of my battery, under the seat. It sure isn't doing anything mechanical there...
-
Your definition of a solenoid is correct except it forgot that moving a heavy duty electrical contact is a useful mechanical part. It's usefulness is that the contact can easily carry the large amount of current the starter motor requires.
Actually, while on the subject, the old automotive starters that had an attached solenoid also had a similar heavy duty electrical contact built into them.
When they were actuated they moved the gear into engagement with the flywheel.
In the last little bit of this movement they engaged the electrical power to the motor.
As for the Royal Enfield, its starter is always engaged with the gear train that drives the sprag clutch.
When the engine is off and the starter soleniod sends power to the starter motor, the motor starts to run turning the gear train and the sprag clutch.
If the clutch is working properly, its sprags will lock up on the crankshaft transmitting the starter power to the crank.
When the engine starts, the crankshaft is turning faster than the sprag clutch so the sprags loose their grip.
As the electrical motor is turned off (solenoid is d-energized) the motor and its driven gear train stop moving. The spinning crankshaft continues to "run free" under the sprags and you ride away with a smile on your face. :)
-
Ok, that makes sense, but in that case, is it a solenoid?
If you prefer, you can call it a relay.
Bare
-
If you prefer, you can call it a relay.
Bare
You say tomato, I say tomato. "Relay" is what I always used for that item.
Thanks guys!
-
This thread has shown many interesting variations of battery position in different bikes. On my G5 the battery terminals face towards the outside - with Negative Terminal close to starter solenoid (pardon me Relay ;)).
Is it 'solenoid' or is it 'relay' ? From what I have read, 'Solenoid' carries much higher current required for starter motor as compared to 'Relay' which is used for smaller current devices such as lights.
Also 'Relay' may be a solid state unit without moving parts.
Perhaps it is like 'Fettuccine' vs. 'Linguini' - depends on its size.
-
Just to muddy the water
Scooter Bob says
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,10454.msg121528.html#msg121528
-
........Perhaps it is like 'Fettuccine' vs. 'Linguini' - depends on its size.......
Momma said size doesn't matter .....
-
BTW, I found these a while ago:
(http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/gallery/2695-211012153945.jpeg)
Cheap, way more hearty than stock, and available at any Napa Auto. Part #784572.
Scott
-
BTW, I found these a while ago:
[image of battery terminal ends here]
Cheap, way more hearty than stock, and available at any Napa Auto. Part #784572.
Scott
Do you need a special crimping tool to do a proper job of installing these?
-
My lights were miserably dim from new due to a great voltage drop from the battery to the headlight. I could never find the source of the drop and finally got tired of looking, so I ran a hot wire from the battery to a couple of relays and attached those to the switches. Now I have from pretty awesome lights.
Bare
-
This thread has shown many interesting variations of battery position in different bikes. On my G5 the battery terminals face towards the outside - with Negative Terminal close to starter solenoid (pardon me Relay ;)).
Is it 'solenoid' or is it 'relay' ? From what I have read, 'Solenoid' carries much higher current required for starter motor as compared to 'Relay' which is used for smaller current devices such as lights.
Also 'Relay' may be a solid state unit without moving parts.
Perhaps it is like 'Fettuccine' vs. 'Linguini' - depends on its size.
FWIW, it's not one vs the other, a starter solenoid is a type of relay. Technically, the "solenoid" is just the electromagnetic plunger that operates the mechanical relay. The correct term is actually "solenoid relay" but being human and lazy we all abbreviate everything, and "solenoid" it is.
-
They're so big they won't fit in most crimping tools. If you want to do it the proper way you need to get a small press just for these kinds of things, $20-25.
http://www.delcity.net/store/Heavy-Duty-Hammer-Crimper/p_10383.r_IF1003?gclid=CJag4crl77MCFRRbnAodkgYAQw
I'm planning a squeeze with a Vice-Grip, then maybe put a large flat head screw driver on it and give a couple of whacks with a hammer.
Scott
-
Nothing like a whack or two with a good hammer to get things attention. :)
-
C'mon, there are ten in the pack. You can kill one or two ;)
-
I'm planning a squeeze with a Vice-Grip, then maybe put a large flat head screw driver on it and give a couple of whacks with a hammer.
That's a completely legit method. Except use a punch instead of a screwdriver. It'll hold in place better.
-
I've installed connectors like that to some fairly large wiring and found that the crimper pliers that are sold at a pretty low cost will work to crimp them without a problem.
The only catch is that rather than just putting the tool on and squeezing it you need to put it on and squeeze it part way, then rotate it about 80-110 degrees and squeeze it the rest of the way.
This makes it tighter than a knats a$$ stretched over a rain-barrel.
-
They're so big they won't fit in most crimping tools. If you want to do it the proper way you need to get a small press just for these kinds of things, $20-25.
http://www.delcity.net/store/Heavy-Duty-Hammer-Crimper/p_10383.r_IF1003?gclid=CJag4crl77MCFRRbnAodkgYAQw
I'm planning a squeeze with a Vice-Grip, then maybe put a large flat head screw driver on it and give a couple of whacks with a hammer.
Scott
Or, you could just solder it ......
-
Not really. It's a bad idea to solder big wires that take a lot of current. If they get hot the solder melts, spills liquid metal on things, and the wire can fall out of the connector if that's all that was holding it. To make things worse, even a small amount of solder past the connector makes the wire rigid at that point and it can flex and break right there.
I do plan to solder but just a bit. You need to crimp first to make sure you have a dead solid mechanical connection. I think then I'm just going to put the tiniest bit on the terminal end, not enough to even bleed out to the wire end of the connector. This is just to help combat corrosion and keep a solid contact.
Scott
-
@ SCOTT
Yep I'll concede that point. soldering is a skill, and, not well suited to superflex wires or those with less than robust insulation.
I have not inspected my battery wires yet, but, I suspect they may be insulated with a low grade PVC ....
I humbly ask to retract my previous suggestion.
-
Why? Lots of people just learned something. Ain't that why we're here? :)
-
Yep, it's a good point to bring up. Soldering a battery cable may seem like a good idea to many people.
-
right..next we'll have someone cad weld the cables right to the post...Lol...