Author Topic: 1st gear / neutral (Read 9757 times)

KD5ITM · **on:** September 10, 2015, 04:25:32 am

Ok so Iv got over 700 miles on my bike now. Ever since I got it Iv noticed that when down shifting in to first it wants to shift hard in to 1st gear kind of with a clunk. Im not too overly worried about it but was wondering if any one else clunks in to 1st when down shifting.

And iv noticed that ever since installing the PC V that while the bike is running its hard to get it in to neutral, but when the bike is off it goes in to neutral with no problem. Any one else have that issue?

KD5ITM · **Reply #1 on:** September 10, 2015, 04:59:09 am

About the neutra, could the idle be too high? When warm it's idling around 1100 rpms.

phoenixt · **Reply #2 on:** September 10, 2015, 05:07:03 am

As you get more miles on it the transmission will smooth out.

1100 rpms is within specs.

Steve

Ice · **Reply #3 on:** September 10, 2015, 05:14:20 am

700 miles is not quite broken in yet. Try down shifting into first at a slower speed than you are currently using and see how that works for you.

KD5ITM · **Reply #4 on:** September 10, 2015, 05:50:07 am

It clunks even at a dead stop

Farmer_John · **Reply #5 on:** September 10, 2015, 07:43:01 am

Quote from: KD5ITM on September 10, 2015, 05:50:07 am

It clunks even at a dead stop

At least you know it's working. It's just the shafts and dogs and forks and plates moving around inside. Never met a quiet trannie (that worked).

pearcey2 · **Reply #6 on:** September 10, 2015, 09:35:34 am

Mines got 7000km on the clock but still shifting down at a stop it goes click...click...click...CLUNK
Just a little reminder that I'm in first ready to take off

mattsz · **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2015, 10:03:52 am

My B5 sometimes barely clicks into gear, other times it clunks loudly - switching at random...

But, I watch some Harley riders drop their bikes into 1st by lifting their entire leg up off the peg to drop their foot down onto the lever - the whole bike jumps and it sounds like someone hitting the motor with a hammer, hard. So I figure it could be worse, and I don't worry about it...

Farmer_John · **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2015, 11:42:58 am

LOL...ever ride an old airhead BMW?

My old CX500 has the noisiest gearbox I've ever known. And come to think of it, a little Suzuki TC100, my first "real" bike way back in the boom days of trail bikes always sounded like it was blowing up when I kicked the crap out of the high/low range lever...

You want smooth, drive a forklift!

tooseevee · **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2015, 12:45:30 pm

Quote from: mattsz on September 10, 2015, 10:03:52 am

But, I watch some Harley riders drop their bikes into 1st by lifting their entire leg up off the peg to drop their foot down onto the lever - the whole bike jumps and it sounds like someone hitting the motor with a hammer, hard.

That's the owner/rider's fault not the bike's. A lot of idiots have been put on harleys since the '80s and way more the last 20 years. A clutch like that is badly in need of adjustment or the clutch needs some other attention.

I ride a harley with a stock early '77 4-speed. I get no jump or jerk when hitting 1st and totally silent shifts up or down from there on. There's no reason except inattention for a harley (or any other bike) to jump out of your hands when hitting 1st or to try to pull away from you in gear with the clutch pulled.

KD5ITM · **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2015, 04:19:50 pm

You're absolutely right, it is a good reminder that you were in first and ready to take off

mattsz · **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2015, 07:37:28 pm

Quote from: Farmer_John on September 10, 2015, 11:42:58 am

LOL...ever ride an old airhead BMW?

Why yes, in fact, I have - the engine ran better, and all the gears shifted smoother and easier than my RE could ever dream of... since you asked...

Arizoni · **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2015, 11:37:45 pm

KD5ITM

If the transmission won't shift into neutral when the engine is running and the clutch is pulled all the way in, it indicates the clutch needs adjustment.

Check the gap between the clutch lever and the stop when your pushing the lever lightly with one finger. It should be 2-3 mm (.08-.12 inches).
If it is greater than this, adjust it using the two nuts at the lower end of the cable on the left engine sidecover.

mattsz · **Reply #13 on:** September 11, 2015, 12:40:26 am

Quote from: tooseevee on September 10, 2015, 12:45:30 pm

That's the owner/rider's fault not the bike's. A lot of idiots have been put on harleys since the '80s and way more the last 20 years. A clutch like that is badly in need of adjustment or the clutch needs some other attention.

Well, I've seen it so many times, I just assumed that was the norm - as usual, what's normal isn't always what's right...

medra42 · **Reply #14 on:** September 11, 2015, 12:49:21 am

I love the clunk when shifting into first on bikes. I liked it on my CB500X, and I like it on my Bonnie and my Conti.

I don't ever want it to go away!

Farmer_John · **Reply #15 on:** September 11, 2015, 01:38:49 am

Quote from: mattsz on September 10, 2015, 07:37:28 pm

Why yes, in fact, I have - the engine ran better, and all the gears shifted smoother and easier than my RE could ever dream of... since you asked...

You just don't like me, do you?

mattsz · **Reply #16 on:** September 11, 2015, 01:48:45 am

Quote from: Farmer_John on September 11, 2015, 01:38:49 am

You just don't like me, do you?

On the contrary! I think you're one of the new arrivals who helps keep this place interesting!

It's my bike that makes me go

Farmer_John · **Reply #17 on:** September 11, 2015, 01:55:33 am

Quote from: mattsz on September 11, 2015, 01:48:45 am

On the contrary! I think you're one of the new arrivals who helps keep this place interesting!

It's my bike that makes me go

Well, thanks.

I've become quite enchanted with this whole Enfield thing. I can't think of another bike brand (other than maybe Ducati) that drives me like this one.

And I've been "around" a lot longer than I'll admit to. About the only brands I haven't sold (new) ARE BMW and Guzzi. Too many years...

Ice · **Reply #18 on:** September 11, 2015, 02:27:37 am

Farmer_John you may as well embrace "the disease"

you are among friends and we all have it

SteveThackery · **Reply #19 on:** September 14, 2015, 11:39:46 am

Quote from: KD5ITM on September 10, 2015, 04:25:32 am

Ever since I got it Iv noticed that when down shifting in to first it wants to shift hard in to 1st gear kind of with a clunk.

And iv noticed that ever since installing the PC V that while the bike is running its hard to get it in to neutral, but when the bike is off it goes in to neutral with no problem.

Clutch drag. It isn't releasing properly.

KD5ITM · **Reply #20 on:** September 17, 2015, 03:43:13 am

So what is being said is that if its clunking in to first even when it was brand new... it needs to be adjusted. I like to think that Im pretty easy on the clutch... how much can it ware after just over 700 miles?

KD5ITM · **Reply #21 on:** September 17, 2015, 03:44:06 am

Quote from: SteveThackery on September 14, 2015, 11:39:46 am

Clutch drag. It isn't releasing properly.

How do you fix that?

JohnDL · **Reply #22 on:** September 17, 2015, 06:50:16 am

I don't have any issues with clunking into first or difficulty selecting neutral at the lights.

If the clutch is held in for a few extra seconds when the engine is idling, mine will snick into first without a sound.

Going from 2nd to 1st slowing down is also slick. I only go into first just before the bike is stationary so the engine speed is near tick over.

As far as I know, the only adjustment for the clutch is at the cable adjuster.

John

Arizoni · **Reply #23 on:** September 17, 2015, 07:44:13 am

KD5ITM

Some clunk is to be expected when shifting into 1st gear while your stopped.
That's because of the way the gears interlock with one another with basically two large projections of steel sliding over until they slip into two large notches on the other gear.
There are no syncronizers in these motorcycle transmissions.

That said, if the clutch cable stretches or the parts in the clutch release mechanism wear a bit, that can make the clunk much worse.

To adjust the clutch you will need two 12 mm open end wrenches and a bit of time.

Follow this link to read about how to do this simple job.

https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php/topic,14247.msg151683.html#msg151683

KD5ITM · **Reply #24 on:** September 17, 2015, 12:40:48 pm

Haha, I'm a cyclist and should know all about cables stretching and things needing to be adjusted. Never once thought of that. Thanks for the link I'll check it out later today

tooseevee · **Reply #25 on:** September 17, 2015, 12:49:58 pm

Quote from: KD5ITM on September 17, 2015, 03:43:13 am

So what is being said is that if its clunking in to first even when it was brand new... it needs to be adjusted. I like to think that Im pretty easy on the clutch... how much can it ware after just over 700 miles?

It's not necessarily "ware". It might just be new cable stretch. Once you adjust a new cable the first time it should hold for quite a long while after that.

You can't escape adjusting a clutch once in a while.

A trick I learned long ago when installing a new clutch cable was to Tye Wrap the clutch lever in a pulled position against the clutch springs overnight or even for a couple days. Then adjust the housing length and the play and go for a ride and tweak as necessary. I've seen harleys so bad that they would pull you right into an intersection and get you killed in 1st gear with the clutch pulled.

Jellyroll · **Reply #26 on:** September 17, 2015, 09:40:22 pm

Yep, it's clutch drag. Here's how I adjusted mine. On the first ride home from the dealers I noticed some drag at low speed and knew right off what it was. So, after it cooled off I went out and loosened the adjuster and lock nut, and loosened the cable to the point it was waaaaay sloppy.
I then put my finger on the rotating arm(where the cable mates with the arm) and gave it a push against the internal spring; it moved about 5/16" to 3/8" before meeting plate pressure. While maintaining light pressure on the arm with my finger I ran the adjuster nut back up to where it was holding the tension, and then let the arm go. At this point the arm pulled the slack out of the cable, and I measured the gap at the lever, where it needed about half a turn on the adjuster nut to put the clutch play just perfecto. NOTE: When tightening the locking nut on the clutch cable keep a sharp eye on the threaded tube so it doesn't 'adjust itself'- it will go out of adjustment just tightening it up. Loctite isn't required.
After that it just snicks into gear(the British version of 'snick' is more like 'crunch/pow'). First and second gear are rather low ratio, and that is one of the reasons it makes more noise, proper adjustment lessening it.
It's good advice to downshift into first at lower speeds to keep from breaking a dog or other boo boo, but it won't disappear-Ah, olde schoole!

KD5ITM · **Reply #27 on:** September 18, 2015, 06:57:03 am

I do down shift at low speeds. Ill play with the adjustment over the weekend.

SteveThackery · **Reply #28 on:** September 18, 2015, 04:58:12 pm

Quote from: Jellyroll on September 17, 2015, 09:40:22 pm

Ah, olde schoole!

This isn't Olde Schoole!! I'll have you know that Reading University completely redesigned the gearbox back in the late 90s when it went to five speed.

Farmer_John · **Reply #29 on:** September 19, 2015, 01:17:01 am

Quote from: KD5ITM on September 18, 2015, 06:57:03 am

I do down shift at low speeds. Ill play with the adjustment over the weekend.

Ah yes, but do you (as you downshift) give the throttle a little blip to bring the revs up to a somewhat equal footing with speed?

This also would help making things smoother, though clunking to some degree is normal.

These things need a slipper clutch...

KD5ITM · **Reply #30 on:** September 19, 2015, 09:37:28 pm

No don't do that

Farmer_John · **Reply #31 on:** September 20, 2015, 02:10:23 am

Seriously, it'd help.

Just a bah-dah-boom motion.

Clutch-blip-shift. Helps take some of the load off the clutch and trannie.

Watch your tach as you're coming to a stop and you pull in the clutch. Your Rs will drop right off as its pulled in. Blip-shift.

It'll soon become second nature and all the cool kids do it!

Rattlebattle · **Reply #32 on:** September 20, 2015, 10:40:29 pm

On a typical British clutch in addition to the cable adjustment which is available to adjust the free play so as to avoid premature wear as well as to account for cable stretch there used also to be adjustment of the clutch spring tension on the pressure plate. If the springs were not adjusted properly the pressure plate did not lift evenly, as evidenced by it visibly wobbling as one kicked over the engine with the primary chain case removed. This caused clutch drag and hence difficulty in changing gear. AFAIK this adjustment is not available on the current RE clutch.

I always free off the clutch before starting the engine by kicking over with the clutch pulled in. I still get a slight crunch when putting my 1954 Tiger 100 in first gear, after which the change is the definitive "knife through butter" smooth. I once owned an early Evo Sportster than used to wake the neighbours on selecting first gear when cold; with no kickstart I couldn't free off the clutch. All the British classic bikes I've owned have had nice light gearboxes, as long as the clutch springs were adjusted correctly. I've not owned an RE with the Albion box but they didn't compare well with the boxes fitted to BSA, Triumph or AMC being ponderous and prone to false neutrals.

My guess is that not all current REs have pressure plates that lift evenly. You can adjust cable free play until the cows come home but it won't compensate for that.

Beemers (and Guzzis) are totally different beasts in that they have dry, engine speed clutches. There is an art to getting smooth changes on these, but once learnt they are pretty good.