Author Topic: Charging issues Electra X  (Read 2416 times)

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Bullett1

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on: April 13, 2021, 04:41:23 pm
 My Electra X 2007 which I bought  in January has a fault which the previous owners does know about hence selling it.
Battery is not being charged so have check reg/rec and replaced, no AC power from Stator so replaced. Still no power from stator on yellow wires.

I’m beginning to think maybe the rotor has lost its magnetism.

Battery is 12.7 v. Ohms from stator is in spec. Continuity from stator through plug to reg/rec ok,

I am at a loss as what to do next except replace rotor. Will I need a puller ?

Thanks in advance.


Adrian II

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Reply #1 on: April 13, 2021, 04:57:25 pm
The rotor might be removable (once the nut on the end of the crankshaft is undone) by giving it a sharp tap with a wooden mallet to "break" the taper. That does not mean "break the tapered end off the crankshaft".

Could the rotor be loose on the end of the crankshaft? Usually there is a strong pull on the stator as far as magnetism is concerned. I know older Lucas alternator rotors can loose magnetism, but I've not heard of it happening with these.

A.
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Bullett1

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Reply #2 on: April 13, 2021, 05:18:24 pm
Hi A

Thanks for your reply I’ve tried everything else just don’t know what to try next


AzCal Retred

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Reply #3 on: April 13, 2021, 05:39:37 pm
Heat & vibration can be hard on permanent magnets, field strength takes special instruments to measure anyway. It's a cheap enough fix to just try. I think the Lucas folks have a more potent unit available? Maybe that's worth looking at if the money's not excessive.
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Adrian II

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Reply #4 on: April 13, 2021, 07:30:40 pm
Whereabouts are you, Bullett1? USA, UK, Oz, NZ or somewhere totally else?

A.
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axman88

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Reply #5 on: April 13, 2021, 08:56:45 pm
My Electra X 2007 which I bought  in January has a fault which the previous owners does know about hence selling it.
Battery is not being charged so have check reg/rec and replaced, no AC power from Stator so replaced. Still no power from stator on yellow wires.

I’m beginning to think maybe the rotor has lost its magnetism.

Battery is 12.7 v. Ohms from stator is in spec. Continuity from stator through plug to reg/rec ok,

I would think the magnets would have to be stone dead to give Nada AC output.  It might be low, insufficient to charge the battery, but there should be some AC output from even a degraded rotor.

Did you try running the stator output into an open circuit and measuring AC voltage, or was the Rect/Reg attached? 

I'm curious, is the generating system in your 2007 3 phase, or single?  Do you know where we can see a schematic of the system?


Adrian II

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Reply #6 on: April 13, 2021, 11:27:21 pm
The Electra-X were all three-phase with a Japanese-style alternator.

Here is the on-line workshop manual which has partial and full wiring diagrams/schematics.

A.

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/core/media/media.nl?id=238414&c=1062795&h=8e3c66022e672056498b&_xt=.pdf
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axman88

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Reply #7 on: April 14, 2021, 09:02:52 pm
Thanks for the info on the Electra, Mr. Adrian.

I'm more of a student of this technology than a professor, but here is a link to what I would consider pertinent and interesting information on this type of 3 phase charging circuit, including a sample waveform and a typical schematic of the Rect/Reg.  https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/235195/3-phase-permanent-magnet-alternator-with-regulator-rectifier-scr-output-wavefo

RE doesn't give us details of the circuit they use for voltage regulation, but we know that the alternator is the permanent magnet rotor type.  There's no field coil, so output of the alternator is proportional to rotating speed ( and magnet strength of course).  The rectifier converts AC output to DC pulses.  If the regulator follows the simple design shown on the linked site, it monitors voltage of each of the 3 phases, and shunts the output to ground whenever voltage exceeds the reference voltage.

I'm thinking that this regulation process could be messed up if the voltage reference was wrong, and I think that this could be caused by high resistance wiring or high resistance connections at several points.  I'd take a close look at the connections of the Battery - to ground, the condition of the Battery + terminal, and the wiring and connection of the Rect/Reg to the harness.  I'd measure resistance of the various wires.  These should all be fractions of an ohm.  Copper wire can oxidize inside its insulation and become a crude resistor.  Wiring that is close to where the battery outgasses is especially vulnerable.  I'd disconnect and clean all connections in the charging system.  Connections to the steel frame and within connectors can develop an superficial oxide layer that can be quite high resistance.  Wiring and connections thus degraded will show continuity, and it will conduct, but it changes the system voltages at various points, and wastes power in the resistance.

Good Luck!


Paul W

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Reply #8 on: April 14, 2021, 10:16:52 pm
I’d say the correct puller is essential for removing the Electra’s TCI magneto rotor. The one on my 350 took some real effort, even with the correct tool. Then it suddenly came off the taper with a quite a loud “crack”.

It wouldn’t take much bodgery to put it out of true by leverage from behind and then it’s scrap metal.
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Adrian II

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Reply #9 on: April 15, 2021, 01:53:23 pm
There was a case in the local owners' club where someone was attempting to remove an Electra-X alternator rotor WITH the correct extractor, only to have it split the mainshaft!  :o

Fortunately I was able to help him out, a bare Electra-X drive side mainshaft had previously come up on ebay for £4. I bought it, thinking "that might come in useful...".

A.
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Paul W

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Reply #10 on: April 16, 2021, 05:06:48 pm
I've often found the best way to use puller tools is to use the tool to put some tension on the part but where possible to "shock" it off using a hammer, which breaks the joint with less tension.
Paul W.


tooseevee

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Reply #11 on: April 16, 2021, 09:24:14 pm
I've often found the best way to use puller tools is to use the tool to put some tension on the part but where possible to "shock" it off using a hammer, which breaks the joint with less tension.

           I found that to be the best way with a taper, too; Crank the nut down good, then Tap Tap Tap, crank it a little, Tap, Tap, crank, Pop!
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #12 on: April 16, 2021, 09:37:41 pm
Maybe an electric heat gun could be used, that flywheel must be able to withstand 300 degrees F (148 C) at least. But you certainly wouldn't to cook it with a torch. Heat is a wonder, in moderation.
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Paul W

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Reply #13 on: April 17, 2021, 09:44:52 am
According to my son, who is a production engineer working for a company who specialise in high speed rotational magnetic components (as in Formula 1 racing cars), you would need to be extremely careful when heating the flywheel. Overdo it by only a small amount (at only about 180 degrees C) and the magnetism will be suddenly and completely lost.  :-[
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 09:48:52 am by Paul W »
Paul W.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #14 on: April 19, 2021, 11:50:52 pm
Heat indicating crayons are available cheaply in a variety of temperatures, that might be one way of safely using a heat gun. It's amazing what a bit of heat can do to unlock components, but as Paul W says it's a two edged sword. But if the flywheel is demagnetized anyway, at least you are saving the stress on the shaft.

https://www.mcmaster.com/heat-crayons/
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