[twocoolgliders]

Hundred mile ride yesterday....the bike just flat shut itself off 5 times!  Very disconcerting when far from home and on the  road with little place to pull over!

My diagnosis:

It is not the ignition key switch...for two reasons...1) I removed the key switch(and added a toggle switch) , and 2) the dash idiot lights stayed illuminated when the bike shut down.

My suspicion is either the side stand safety switch, or the roll over sensor.

Side stand switch, because I've been messing around with the side stand...usually when something goes wrong it leads back to the last thing I messed with.

But upon returning home..the side stand switch did seem to perform correctly...the stand has to come almost 1/2 way down before the engine cuts off... so I don't think a  little rattling around would trigger an engine cut...plus my stand doesn't rattle around.


So that brings me to the roll over sensor.  The mechanic from my dealer (who always comes to bike night) tells me that they had several INT's which came back for warranty work and it turned out to be a faulty roll over switch...so that is my target for today..

When the bike cut out...I pulled over...shut off the ignition.....turned on the ignition, and the bike started normally, and would run for some miles....but then the cycle repeated.

The shut down and restart is the recommended reset procedure in case of the roll over switch being activated

A bit of internet research turned up that the roll over switch is a bit more complicated than I first thought.  It is not a simple "on-off" switch!

It has three wires which go to the ECU...one wire carries a 5v "reference voltage" another wire carries zero volts, and the third wire is the "sense"...it seems if it senses either 5 volts, or zero volts, it will trigger the ecu to shut the spark, and shut the fuel.  When there is some middle voltage between 0 and 5.....the ecu says "OK"


So disabling the roll over sensor is not so simple as cutting some wires, or fusing some wires together.

The off road guys, and the stunt riders disable the roll over sensor by way of opening the thing up, inside there is a weighted pendulum thingy, with some sort of magnets...they simply glue this thing into the "up" or level position...so the sensor then sends the "all OK" signal to the computer, no matter what attitude the bike is in.

I don't know what the deal is with the RE sensor..if I can even open it up to do that fix....I will order a new one regardless...

Today's project.


Cookie

[Starpeve]

Hundred mile ride yesterday....the bike just flat shut itself off 5 times!  Very disconcerting when far from home and on the  road with little place to pull over!

My diagnosis:

It is not the ignition key switch...for two reasons...1) I removed the key switch(and added a toggle switch) , and 2) the dash idiot lights stayed illuminated when the bike shut down.

My suspicion is either the side stand safety switch, or the roll over sensor.

Side stand switch, because I've been messing around with the side stand...usually when something goes wrong it leads back to the last thing I messed with.

But upon returning home..the side stand switch did seem to perform correctly...the stand has to come almost 1/2 way down before the engine cuts off... so I don't think a  little rattling around would trigger an engine cut...plus my stand doesn't rattle around.


So that brings me to the roll over sensor.  The mechanic from my dealer (who always comes to bike night) tells me that they had several INT's which came back for warranty work and it turned out to be a faulty roll over switch...so that is my target for today..

When the bike cut out...I pulled over...shut off the ignition.....turned on the ignition, and the bike started normally, and would run for some miles....but then the cycle repeated.

The shut down and restart is the recommended reset procedure in case of the roll over switch being activated

A bit of internet research turned up that the roll over switch is a bit more complicated than I first thought.  It is not a simple "on-off" switch!

It has three wires which go to the ECU...one wire carries a 5v "reference voltage" another wire carries zero volts, and the third wire is the "sense"...it seems if it senses either 5 volts, or zero volts, it will trigger the ecu to shut the spark, and shut the fuel.  When there is some middle voltage between 0 and 5.....the ecu says "OK"


So disabling the roll over sensor is not so simple as cutting some wires, or fusing some wires together.

The off road guys, and the stunt riders disable the roll over sensor by way of opening the thing up, inside there is a weighted pendulum thingy, with some sort of magnets...they simply glue this thing into the "up" or level position...so the sensor then sends the "all OK" signal to the computer, no matter what attitude the bike is in.

I don't know what the deal is with the RE sensor..if I can even open it up to do that fix....I will order a new one regardless...

Today's project.


Cookie

Fuck me!!! You’ve had a horror run with your bike!!! I’ll bet you’re not advocating this brand to anyone. I’m sorry you’ve had such a negative experience with your Enfield. I feel almost guilty that mine’s been so sweet.
I’ve had shit vehicles before so I can understand your plight.
Sincerely,.Steve

[Bibbage]

Hundred mile ride yesterday....the bike just flat shut itself off 5 times!  Very disconcerting when far from home and on the  road with little place to pull over!

My diagnosis:

It is not the ignition key switch...for two reasons...1) I removed the key switch(and added a toggle switch) , and 2) the dash idiot lights stayed illuminated when the bike shut down.

My suspicion is either the side stand safety switch, or the roll over sensor.

Side stand switch, because I've been messing around with the side stand...usually when something goes wrong it leads back to the last thing I messed with.

But upon returning home..the side stand switch did seem to perform correctly...the stand has to come almost 1/2 way down before the engine cuts off... so I don't think a  little rattling around would trigger an engine cut...plus my stand doesn't rattle around.


So that brings me to the roll over sensor.  The mechanic from my dealer (who always comes to bike night) tells me that they had several INT's which came back for warranty work and it turned out to be a faulty roll over switch...so that is my target for today..

When the bike cut out...I pulled over...shut off the ignition.....turned on the ignition, and the bike started normally, and would run for some miles....but then the cycle repeated.

The shut down and restart is the recommended reset procedure in case of the roll over switch being activated

A bit of internet research turned up that the roll over switch is a bit more complicated than I first thought.  It is not a simple "on-off" switch!

It has three wires which go to the ECU...one wire carries a 5v "reference voltage" another wire carries zero volts, and the third wire is the "sense"...it seems if it senses either 5 volts, or zero volts, it will trigger the ecu to shut the spark, and shut the fuel.  When there is some middle voltage between 0 and 5.....the ecu says "OK"


So disabling the roll over sensor is not so simple as cutting some wires, or fusing some wires together.

The off road guys, and the stunt riders disable the roll over sensor by way of opening the thing up, inside there is a weighted pendulum thingy, with some sort of magnets...they simply glue this thing into the "up" or level position...so the sensor then sends the "all OK" signal to the computer, no matter what attitude the bike is in.

I don't know what the deal is with the RE sensor..if I can even open it up to do that fix....I will order a new one regardless...

Today's project.


Cookie

Perhaps it could be one of the relays, mine were smothered with grease which I’ve cleaned off.  On my first ride bike cutout as yours and restarted again, it hasn’t done it since, 2600mls now. 👍

[Returned to New BMW]

I asked when I was told by my RE dealer at my recent 300ml service about the coming recall to replace the brake calipers if there was any problems with the new 650 Enfields and was told out of the 75 bikes last year and the 50 this year so far the only problems have been a couple of faulty ignition switches and a bike that keep cutting out this was solved by checking and cleaning all the connection plug/sockets and also checking the side stand switch. Hope yours is as simple 

[hadujorganic]

For what it's worth (and wtf, I'm not too proud to admit this), the other day my Interceptor seemed to just die, right in traffic.

I had to paddle over to the shoulder and was lucky the other drivers gave me some space to get off the road safely and quickly.

I was wearing new and kinda bulky cold-weather gloves and I had inadvertently brushed past the red plastic engine kill switch with my right hand just enough to rock it enough to shut down the engine. I didn't even feel it through the glove, and the switch was barely off the "run" position.

Total user error, yeah.
Is it possible you did something like my bonehead move?

[Returned to New BMW]

Yes!! I have almost called my breakdown service on a bike because it was dead and would not start until I found some kind person had switched my engine kill switch off whilst parked. I never use the engine kill switch to turn off the bike!!

[Dani650]

Yes!! I have almost called my breakdown service on a bike because it was dead and would not start until I found some kind person had switched my engine kill switch off whilst parked. I never use the engine kill switch to turn off the bike!!

Same here!! I was really mad because the bike didn't start to go to work and it was the damn switch xD

[aamrr177]

My bike died three times during the first two rides I had it.  If this was a carbureted engine I would have guessed that there was a problem with the gas tank vent, creating a vacuum and preventing fuel from flowing.  But with the fuel pump I wouldn't think that would be a problem.  And the problem did happen after I had taken the fuel tank off, so I double checked all the connections under there and it hasn't happened since.

[NVDucati]

Cookie, Thank you for your service.
I'm miles away from my bike so let me ask anyone: Under normal conditions with the ignition key on, do the dash lights stay on with the red kill switch off?

Next: this link shows a Suzuki style roll over switch.
http://mototuneusa.com/gsxr_tip_over_switch.htm

I know you said the switch cover doesn't com off easily.

[SlowRider]

Dash lights and headlight come on but the fuel pump will not prime. Hit the kill switch to ON and the pump starts priming.

[NVDucati]

Have you considered taking the seat off / unscrew the sensor and hold it in your hand.
Start the bike and see if you can or what does shut it down. Swing it, bounce it, put your vibrator on it. You get the picture.

[JettaKnight]

Same here!! I was really mad because the bike didn't start to go to work and it was the damn switch xD

Well, I think I know what I might do when I see a motorcycle parked... 

Dash lights and headlight come on but the fuel pump will not prime. Hit the kill switch to ON and the pump starts priming.

And it triggers the neutral indicator.

[JettaKnight]

You should be able to replace that sensor with two resistors that provide the correct voltage at the sensor line.... assuming you know how to use Ohm's Law and Kerchhoff's Law.

[twocoolgliders]

That looks like an "old style" mechanical switch...pretty  much on or off...the newer ones are more electronic, with a circuit board inside and some sort of potentiometer or something..and magnets......the new ones run on 5 volts reference.

Also the one in the RE is pretty much a completely sealed unit...unlike the ones you see on videos from Yamaha which disassemble easily....


Cookie

Cookie, Thank you for your service.
I'm miles away from my bike so let me ask anyone: Under normal conditions with the ignition key on, do the dash lights stay on with the red kill switch off?

Next: this link shows a Suzuki style roll over switch.
http://mototuneusa.com/gsxr_tip_over_switch.htm

I know you said the switch cover doesn't com off easily.

[twocoolgliders]

Good solution!   I saw one video where a guy wired in a potentiometer...when he turned it full one way it went to 0 volts and the engine died...when he turned if full the other way it went to 5 volts and the engine died...when he turned somewhere in the middle the engine stayed on....

This was his temporary fix until the new part came in...

I don't think my sensor is faulty..se my post further down..


Cookie

You should be able to replace that sensor with two resistors that provide the correct voltage at the sensor line.... assuming you know how to use Ohm's Law and Kerchhoff's Law.

[twocoolgliders]

LOL!   My thoughts exactly...and that is what I did this morning.

The sensor unit is completely molded in plastic, sealed and cannot be easily disassembled, at least not without the chance of damaging it beyond repair.

So I disconnected the unit and then re-connected it to be sure the connector was doing its job....

I then removed the sensor from it's mount..turned the bike and engine on...and played around with tilting the sensor.  Couple of interesting things...the orientation doesn't seem to matter...that is side to side tilt or front to back tilt...each will kill the engine.  Also...the engine doesn't die right  away...about a 10 second delay...

When I had the sensor removed completely....and shook it.....rotated it, etc...you can hear the pendulum thingy moving around inside...and it seems to move freely...

My conclusion is that there is nothing wrong with the roll over sensor!

So my other suspicion was the side stand safety switch....because I had been messing around with the stand recently....yeah...it is so simple, what could go wrong?

Well....what I had done recently was to drill out the stand mounting hole in the frame, and install a bronze bushing..in order to reduce the play and looseness.  Today, when I removed the side stand safety switch....ah....all of the metal shavings from the drilling operation were stuck onto the magnet contained in the switch! Additionally, there were several tiny rocks stuck in and around the switch, and between the switch and the frame.

So I cleaned up all of this mess, and re installed the side stand safety switch.....

Did I really do "anything"?...I dunno...Could metal shavings mess up the switch?  I dunno...

So I went for a 45 mile ride..and the bike performed perfectly!  What does this prove?  I dunno....maybe the problem will return?  Maybe cleaning out the switch did the trick?  Maybe shaking the roll over sensor loosened it up?  Will the problem return?

The thing is...when a problem is intermittent...it is hard to identify...because when the bike is running correctly...there is no fault to be found!

How many times does a person take their vehicle to a mechanic with a complaint..like  weird noise, but when the mechanic is there it doesn't make that noise?



Cookie

Have you considered taking the seat off / unscrew the sensor and hold it in your hand.
Start the bike and see if you can or what does shut it down. Swing it, bounce it, put your vibrator on it. You get the picture.

[Jako]

Any success with the stand mods ?  Has it reduced  the lean angle  ? Any photo's

[quote author=twocoolgliders link=topic=29297.msg340159#msg340159 date=1601073266

Well....what I had done recently was to drill out the stand mounting hole in the frame, and install a bronze bushing..in order to reduce the play and looseness. 













Cookie
[/quote]

[mwmosser]

LOL!   My thoughts exactly...and that is what I did this morning.

The sensor unit is completely molded in plastic, sealed and cannot be easily disassembled, at least not without the chance of damaging it beyond repair.

So I disconnected the unit and then re-connected it to be sure the connector was doing its job....

I then removed the sensor from it's mount..turned the bike and engine on...and played around with tilting the sensor.  Couple of interesting things...the orientation doesn't seem to matter...that is side to side tilt or front to back tilt...each will kill the engine.  Also...the engine doesn't die right  away...about a 10 second delay...

When I had the sensor removed completely....and shook it.....rotated it, etc...you can hear the pendulum thingy moving around inside...and it seems to move freely...

My conclusion is that there is nothing wrong with the roll over sensor!

So my other suspicion was the side stand safety switch....because I had been messing around with the stand recently....yeah...it is so simple, what could go wrong?

Well....what I had done recently was to drill out the stand mounting hole in the frame, and install a bronze bushing..in order to reduce the play and looseness.  Today, when I removed the side stand safety switch....ah....all of the metal shavings from the drilling operation were stuck onto the magnet contained in the switch! Additionally, there were several tiny rocks stuck in and around the switch, and between the switch and the frame.

So I cleaned up all of this mess, and re installed the side stand safety switch.....

Did I really do "anything"?...I dunno...Could metal shavings mess up the switch?  I dunno...

So I went for a 45 mile ride..and the bike performed perfectly!  What does this prove?  I dunno....maybe the problem will return?  Maybe cleaning out the switch did the trick?  Maybe shaking the roll over sensor loosened it up?  Will the problem return?

The thing is...when a problem is intermittent...it is hard to identify...because when the bike is running correctly...there is no fault to be found!

How many times does a person take their vehicle to a mechanic with a complaint..like  weird noise, but when the mechanic is there it doesn't make that noise?



Cookie

Great work there running down what is probably the cause. We'll know more after your next few rides I suppose!

[twocoolgliders]

Yes, I reduced the "play" in the pivot considerably, which keeps the bike up straighter...but only as straight as "stock" which is still a bit too much lean for most people's liking.

I've only done "part I" of my proposed fix.  Part II will be a better solution, but again it will only remove (most of) the looseness or play in the pivot, not really change the OEM angle.

Will send out photo and / or drawing shortly,


Cookie

Any success with the stand mods ?  Has it reduced  the lean angle  ? Any photo's

[quote author=twocoolgliders link=topic=29297.msg340159#msg340159 date=1601073266

Well....what I had done recently was to drill out the stand mounting hole in the frame, and install a bronze bushing..in order to reduce the play and looseness. 













Cookie

[AndyinNZ]

Yes, I reduced the "play" in the pivot considerably, which keeps the bike up straighter...but only as straight as "stock" which is still a bit too much lean for most people's liking.

I've only done "part I" of my proposed fix.  Part II will be a better solution, but again it will only remove (most of) the looseness or play in the pivot, not really change the OEM angle.

Will send out photo and / or drawing shortly,


Cookie

How did you get the return spring off, or did you leave it on until the pin was out ?

[gizzo]

So my other suspicion was the side stand safety switch....because I had been messing around with the stand recently....yeah...it is so simple, what could go wrong?

Well....what I had done recently was to drill out the stand mounting hole in the frame, and install a bronze bushing..in order to reduce the play and looseness.  Today, when I removed the side stand safety switch....ah....all of the metal shavings from the drilling operation were stuck onto the magnet contained in the switch! Additionally, there were several tiny rocks stuck in and around the switch, and between the switch and the frame.

So I cleaned up all of this mess, and re installed the side stand safety switch.....

Did I really do "anything"?...I dunno...Could metal shavings mess up the switch?  I dunno...

So I went for a 45 mile ride..and the bike performed perfectly!  What does this prove?  I dunno...



Cookie

Haha I love it! If it ain't broke, keep fixing it until it is!

On the singles, you unplug the side stand switch and forget about it. Does the 650 throw an error code for rollover? Our 500s do.

I hope you found the problem with the swarf in the switch! That'd be a good catch.

[twocoolgliders]

PITA....long thin flat screwdriver.  (sometimes two long thin screwdrivers)

They do make spring remover hook type tool but I don't have.

Hard to put on too.....

Did three times...gets easier once you get the method down..

Cookie

How did you get the return spring off, or did you leave it on until the pin was out ?

[twocoolgliders]

LOL!


My motto:

"I'll fix it....I'll fix it until it'll never work!"

I think it throws an error code....but I'm not sure...didn't look....just know some lights were on on the panel..

Switch off and then on clears it...so that is what I did...no residual code then.

I kind of like the side stand safety switch.....I may have taken off with the stand down on my 1986 Honda...maybe just once!


Cookie

Haha I love it! If it ain't broke, keep fixing it until it is!

On the singles, you unplug the side stand switch and forget about it. Does the 650 throw an error code for rollover? Our 500s do.

I hope you found the problem with the swarf in the switch! That'd be a good catch.

[Starpeve]

Haha I love it! If it ain't broke, keep fixing it until it is!

On the singles, you unplug the side stand switch and forget about it. Does the 650 throw an error code for rollover? Our 500s do.

I hope you found the problem with the swarf in the switch! That'd be a good catch.

Hahahahahaha!!!! Fuck I hate bike electrics. ‘Specially now , with all the crap on em.

[twocoolgliders]

I figure the RE electrics are basically a lower grade copy of Lucas electrics....not a good role model!

Cookie

Hahahahahaha!!!! Fuck I hate bike electrics. ‘Specially now , with all the crap on em.

[gizzo]

How did you get the return spring off, or did you leave it on until the pin was out ?

You can easily make a tool to take the spring off and on. Let's see if I can describe it:

You need a roll of tie wire (lock wire) and a long screwdriver.

take a length of tie wire, maybe a foot or two long. Loop the wire around a few times so you have a kind of circle of wire with 4 or 5 loops. Twitch the 2 loose ends together. squash the loop so it's like a sausage not a circle and hook one end of the loop over the spring hook. put the screwdriver in the other end of the loop and find somewhere convenient on the bike to lever against. You'll be able to get a lot of leverage with the long screwdriver and pretty easily stretch that spring off the hook.

Once you've found the place on your bike that you'll be levering from, you'll see how long to make the loop. If you go overboard and make it too long, twist it to shorten. You can refit the spring with the same lashup. It'll probably get jammed in there but it's easy enough to cut it out with side cutters.

Make sure you use enough loops, don't be stingy. If you use not enough, the wire will break. You can try big cable ties too, but IME they snap too easily. Any time you're fooling about with springs, wear eye protection. Good luck!

[Starpeve]

You can easily make a tool to take the spring off and on. Let's see if I can describe it:

You need a roll of tie wire (lock wire) and a long screwdriver.

take a length of tie wire, maybe a foot or two long. Loop the wire around a few times so you have a kind of circle of wire with 4 or 5 loops. Twitch the 2 loose ends together. squash the loop so it's like a sausage not a circle and hook one end of the loop over the spring hook. put the screwdriver in the other end of the loop and find somewhere convenient on the bike to lever against. You'll be able to get a lot of leverage with the long screwdriver and pretty easily stretch that spring off the hook.

Once you've found the place on your bike that you'll be levering from, you'll see how long to make the loop. If you go overboard and make it too long, twist it to shorten. You can refit the spring with the same lashup. It'll probably get jammed in there but it's easy enough to cut it out with side cutters.

Make sure you use enough loops, don't be stingy. If you use not enough, the wire will break. You can try big cable ties too, but IME they snap too easily. Any time you're fooling about with springs, wear eye protection. Good luck!

You broke my monkey.....

[Jako]

Just had look at my side stands pivot,  very neat looking magnetic proximity sensor used for the  saftey switch.  Should be more reliable then the switch used on the 500 singles .

[Hoiho]

I kind of like the side stand safety switch.....I may have taken off with the stand down on my 1986 Honda...maybe just once!

Cookie

A workmate had the misfortune of killing a guy who came around the corner with his sidestand down. The guy had just picked up his fish & chups and tucked them down the front of his jacket - ran wide and straight into mate's car.   Workmate couldn't eat F&C for a few years...

[ace30]

Hello there, I own a 2019 interceptor 650. Bought it  at 3000kms and have now added another 2500 kms to it.   
The bike cut itself out on 3 occasions exactly as described in your post.
   I  don't know if  this can help, but on thinking about the possible causes,  i realized that each time,  the cut off happened shortly ( 2 or 3 minutes )after my bike had been resting for a while on the side stand and at very low speed. 
After turning key off then on, it started again!
    Could it be that the side stand was leaning to such an  angle as to trigger the roll over sensor?
  Appels de phare
jc B

[Starpeve]

A workmate had the misfortune of killing a guy who came around the corner with his sidestand down. The guy had just picked up his fish & chups and tucked them down the front of his jacket - ran wide and straight into mate's car.   Workmate couldn't eat F&C for a few years...

All my mates and I have done that at some stage in our youth, frightens the shit out of you when the bike vaults to the side( if you manage to stay on it!). In fact we had an up and coming South Oz racing name, Carl Hammersly, die when he took a Yam XS 1100 ( I think ) home from his sponsors and pogoed into a street pole after digging his stand in. Easy done. I love that safety switch.
Steve

[Returned to New BMW]

I can't remember the bike I owned but it solved the side stand switch problem completely!! The side stand did not lock down only the weight of the bike leaning on the stand held it down as soon as you uprighted the bike the stand who spring back up. I did not like the idea, I can remember that!!
Why can’t somebody find how to remove the rollover switch completely? I had the problem on my BMW F800R you just removed the device from the tank and the switch and ignored the error warning triangle on the display. I sure the system can be hacked!

[Returned to New BMW]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/580030965473419/permalink/1893765307433305/

This UK tuning company is working on the ECU of RE Interceptor.

[ceekay]

I can't remember the bike I owned but it solved the side stand switch problem completely!! The side stand did not lock down only the weight of the bike leaning on the stand held it down as soon as you uprighted the bike the stand who spring back up. I did not like the idea, I can remember that!!
Why can’t somebody find how to remove the rollover switch completely? I had the problem on my BMW F800R you just removed the device from the tank and the switch and ignored the error warning triangle on the display. I sure the system can be hacked!

my 70s era BMWs had a spring loaded sidestand that would spring up when the weight was lifted...lift the bike and the sidestand retracted. another K BMW I owned the sidestand would retract when the clutch lever was pulled. It was a simple cable operated thing.

[olhogrider]

I can't remember the bike I owned but it solved the side stand switch problem completely!! The side stand did not lock down only the weight of the bike leaning on the stand held it down as soon as you uprighted the bike the stand who spring back up. I did not like the idea, I can remember that!!
Why can’t somebody find how to remove the rollover switch completely? I had the problem on my BMW F800R you just removed the device from the tank and the switch and ignored the error warning triangle on the display. I sure the system can be hacked!

Harley has had the Jiffy Stand since the 1930s. It locks in place when weight is on it but easily retracts when the weight comes off. When BMW introduced the non-adventure style dirt bike 20 years ago, the HP, I sat on one at the dealership. I put the stand down but when I got off the bike and the air suspension raised the bike, the stand came up and down went the bike onto its cylinder head. In the 80s almost all Japanese bikes had a rubber plug that hung below the stand. Ride off with the stand down and the rubber toe would drag and retract the stand. There was even a factory spec for how worn to the rubber could be. Can you imagine doing it so often that you wore out the safety rubber?

[GlennF]

my 70s era BMWs had a spring loaded sidestand that would spring up when the weight was lifted...lift the bike and the sidestand retracted. another K BMW I owned the sidestand would retract when the clutch lever was pulled. It was a simple cable operated thing.

That would be really annoying if you need to move the bike from the opposite side as the stand would pop up and you would be left trying to seat yourself on the bike while juggling the bars to get in  a position to put the stand down again.

[Richard230]

My recollection is that at one time BMW had a side stand that automatically retracted when the clutch lever was pulled in. I think it was on their K-bikes for a few years. And then it just went away. I have no explanation why, other than BMW was trying to save a few marks on every bike.

But then they also had multi-position seat supports where you could adjust the height of your seat by just moving it to three different slots on top of the frame.  That went away too and was replaced by the customer being able to purchase different height accessory seats, whose height was determined on how much padding was built onto the seat pan. Most of the low seats were not very comfortable due to their minimal padding.   

[Jako]

My brothers  CGT 535 had similar intermittent  issue , occasionally it would cut out while riding ,sometimes the fuel pump wouldn't prime when turning ignition on, replaced fuel relay and solved problem.

[ATXConti650]

So my 2019 Continental has been doing the "sometimes I want to make you nervous and stop running or maybe not start for awhile" thing. Once at 4,000 RPM in 3rd gear just stopped running. Clutch in, reach over turn off ignition, turn back one, press starter switch, motor fired up. Let out clutch and continued home. Bike has been sideways on the ground a few times on account of gravity. Decided to see what dealer has to say. Leaving it there for 5 days so they can have option of seeing what happens when it has been sitting for several days.

One of the parts sites listed elsewhere seems to have roll over sensors in stock for like $34 US.

Service guy is named Tim. I call him Tin the Enchanter and he chuckles a little. Be interesting to see how much they want to charge me for not figuring out the problem. Also be interesting if they figure it out.

[Hoiho]

So my 2019 Continental has been doing the "sometimes I want to make you nervous and stop running or maybe not start for awhile" thing. Once at 4,000 RPM in 3rd gear just stopped running. Clutch in, reach over turn off ignition, turn back one, press starter switch, motor fired up. Let out clutch and continued home. Bike has been sideways on the ground a few times on account of gravity. Decided to see what dealer has to say. Leaving it there for 5 days so they can have option of seeing what happens when it has been sitting for several days.

One of the parts sites listed elsewhere seems to have roll over sensors in stock for like $34 US.

Service guy is named Tim. I call him Tin the Enchanter and he chuckles a little. Be interesting to see how much they want to charge me for not figuring out the problem. Also be interesting if they figure it out.

Why should there be any charge?

[mwmosser]

So my 2019 Continental has been doing the "sometimes I want to make you nervous and stop running or maybe not start for awhile" thing. Once at 4,000 RPM in 3rd gear just stopped running. Clutch in, reach over turn off ignition, turn back one, press starter switch, motor fired up. Let out clutch and continued home. Bike has been sideways on the ground a few times on account of gravity. Decided to see what dealer has to say. Leaving it there for 5 days so they can have option of seeing what happens when it has been sitting for several days.

One of the parts sites listed elsewhere seems to have roll over sensors in stock for like $34 US.

Service guy is named Tim. I call him Tin the Enchanter and he chuckles a little. Be interesting to see how much they want to charge me for not figuring out the problem. Also be interesting if they figure it out.

I will be interested in hearing your experience, as we use the same dealer. I havent had any issues yet but I have far fewer miles on mine.

[ceekay]

Modern motorcycle shouldn't quit out of the blue and leave you stranded. It is a safety issue and RE needs to figure this out and issue a recall. Of course that isn't likely to happen unless the appropriate government agencies are involved. I would guess there needs to be a minimum % of vehicles affected to trigger a recall as well.

[eddiesgirl]

So...last couple of rides by bike has died as well.  Yesterday was the worst, as it dies three times while I was out, twice at lights and once moving.  One of the times at a light it took a couple tries to start, on/off etc.  The moving one, I just hit the starter and he started right up. What it sounded and felt like was that there was blockage - like something wasn't letting the gas in (if that makes sense), then all the sudden he'd turn over and rev like hell.

Looks like there is some awareness about this, so I'll have to give a call to Doug at BMW. Maybe they have already dealt with this and I can just bring him in for a little clean up looksee.

[Jack Straw]

Just today my bike quit out in the mountains. Cycling the ignition switch 2 or 3 times woke it up.  30 miles later after a coffee break it would not start and took several minutes to wake up.  Let us know what your guy Doug says. This problem is a safety issue as well as a pain in the rear.   Having it quit at traffic lights is not good.

[twocoolgliders]

Just to follow up with my experiences regarding this stopping dead issue.

First of all...when I was considering buying a RE interceptor, I watched a lot of videos...one of them showed a guy in India, riding his brand new bike home from the dealer, and the bike stopped flat dead!   Hmmmm??


Now it seems that many people are experiencing the same issue  Hmmmm???

Gee...a bike made in INDIA, which is a "copy" of a bike made in England...you know those English bikes known for crazy electrics, and now a poor copy of that!  What could possibly go wrong?

So electrical problems didn't surprise me...

My first problem was definitely in the ignition key switch....If I turned it too far clockwise, the bike would not start...also when riding, if it vibrated too much, the bike would stop....in either case just a jiggle of the key would solve the problem....I finally disassembled the key switch, and IMHO it is designed and constructed like crap....I could see how easily the switch could "overshoot" the contacts, thus cutting the ignition...

So I eliminated the key switch all together and installed a heavy duty, automotive, waterproof, toggle switch....this cured that problem.

But then the engine dying problem started...where the ignition and fuel pump were shut down, yet the ignition stayed on (lights on the instrument cluster stayed on...)

So my first suspect was the sidestand safety switch...because I rebuilt the kick stand, so I figured I messed up the switch...I inspected, tested, and cleaned up that area..and went 2000 miles without issue...

Then the sudden stopping came back!

Next suspect was the roll over sensor (because my dealer told me they had to replace several of these under warranty on customer's bikes)

So I bought a salvage roll over sensor, and disabled it by disassembling it, and gluing it with  crazy glue, permanently in the "upright" position.

I've gone another 1000 miles , maybe 1500 with no further issue....

Did I solve the actual problem???  No way to know!  You can't prove a negative!

If the problem comes back in the future, then I did not solve it.....I will have to move onto to some other fix..
If the problem doesn't come back, then I fixed it.  not very scientific is it?


Cookie

[ceekay]

good luck cookie, my favorite mountain rides I see little traffic and iffy cell service. if stranded I might be there awhile.

[ATXConti650]

So ... dealership kept bike over the weekend and then performed another test on Tuesday (closed Mondays). Yep, bike wouldn't start until fuel pump whirred. Must be the fuel pump. Couple days waiting for service dept to talk to parts dept and get back to me. Finally I called parts dept told 'em what serv dept decided and parts dept said there was a pump available at warehouse in the US. I told 'em to talk to serv dept for any additional info. Got a call from serv dept the next afternoon that parts dept had ordered a pump and wanted to know if I called parts dept because they hadn't.

Anyhow, it's gonna take a week to get the part. Weather has been the short and sublime Central Texas Fall temperatures. I just hope I haven't entered the poor workmanship on repairs or installation vortex that gets worse and worse. Like the people there so FINGERS CROSSED!

I understand a busy work environment and juggling sixteen different issues at one time that require a response from others so I am staying calm-ish and supportive. Serenity now.

So my 2019 Continental has been doing the "sometimes I want to make you nervous and stop running or maybe not start for awhile" thing. Once at 4,000 RPM in 3rd gear just stopped running. Clutch in, reach over turn off ignition, turn back one, press starter switch, motor fired up. Let out clutch and continued home. Bike has been sideways on the ground a few times on account of gravity. Decided to see what dealer has to say. Leaving it there for 5 days so they can have option of seeing what happens when it has been sitting for several days.

One of the parts sites listed elsewhere seems to have roll over sensors in stock for like $34 US.

Service guy is named Tim. I call him Tin the Enchanter and he chuckles a little. Be interesting to see how much they want to charge me for not figuring out the problem. Also be interesting if they figure it out.

[twocoolgliders]

I don't agree with their diagnosis!!!!

Just because the fuel pump does not turn on, doesn't mean it is a bad fuel pump!!!

There are all kinds of switches, relays, solenoids, safety interlocks, terminals, connectors, computer, etc...between the "electricity" and the fuel pump.

You said, "the bike wouldn't start until the fuel pump whirred..."   So that implies that the fuel pump did whir and the bike did start???  If the fuel pump whirred, then why replace the fuel pump?

I would assume that they isolated the fuel pump from everything else, applied power, and determined it was shot???  Or did they?


Good luck!


Cookie

So ... dealership kept bike over the weekend and then performed another test on Tuesday (closed Mondays). Yep, bike wouldn't start until fuel pump whirred. Must be the fuel pump. Couple days waiting for service dept to talk to parts dept and get back to me. Finally I called parts dept told 'em what serv dept decided and parts dept said there was a pump available at warehouse in the US. I told 'em to talk to serv dept for any additional info. Got a call from serv dept the next afternoon that parts dept had ordered a pump and wanted to know if I called parts dept because they hadn't.

Anyhow, it's gonna take a week to get the part. Weather has been the short and sublime Central Texas Fall temperatures. I just hope I haven't entered the poor workmanship on repairs or installation vortex that gets worse and worse. Like the people there so FINGERS CROSSED!

I understand a busy work environment and juggling sixteen different issues at one time that require a response from others so I am staying calm-ish and supportive. Serenity now.

[ceekay]

these bikes don't give error codes?

[ace30]

Hello there, I've  had the same issue on my interceptor.  4 times and everytime it seemed the engine cut off or the electricity cut off, and immediately after both odometers lit up  as if I had turned ignition on again!  so I pressed starter and the bike went alive again!
Did that happen to you the way I am describing it,  and have you found the cause of that mess ?
Jean-Claude from France.

[twocoolgliders]

Yes....exactly as you describe!

But....It quit one me 5 times in one day, then I went 2000 miles without issue, then it quit again!

So far: 

I've cleaned up and checked the side stand safety switch.
disabled the roll over sensor
replaced the ignition key switch

Been running a thousand miles or more without issue...but who knows when it will happen again?

Several members on this forum have had the dealer investigate, and it seems to come down to a faulty relay, probably the fuel pump relay.  But I don't know how many miles they have run since that "fix"

My dealer tells me they had to change out 3 bike's roll over sensors for this issue...

The 4 main relays seem to have too much grease applied to the contacts, so this may be the issue...

I have yet to have any concrete evidence of the actual cause of the problem.....we are just using the "shot in the dark" method of curing it


Cookie

Hello there, I've  had the same issue on my interceptor.  4 times and everytime it seemed the engine cut off or the electricity cut off, and immediately after both odometers lit up  as if I had turned ignition on again!  so I pressed starter and the bike went alive again!
Did that happen to you the way I am describing it,  and have you found the cause of that mess ?
Jean-Claude from France.

[ace30]

Thanks Cookie.   It seems you have found a solution since the breakdowns did happen at shorter intervals...
At the moment my bike is at the concess. They have already checked the relays and say they've found nothing wrong with them.   Next step, they want ro ride it to experience the breakdown in situ...That is if "the thing" happens while they are riding the bike!  . Although I believe my description of the symptoms to be fairly clear they sort of don't want to accept it , or is it that, as  I suspect, they dont really know what to look for....  so I'll put some pressure on them and let you know of the outcome!

[twocoolgliders]

This is a tough one for the mechanics....When a problem is intermittent, they can't diagnosis it, unless it happens.  You can't fix what's not broken.  As I said, I thought I solved it, but after 2000 miles it came back...And I'm just shot-gun changing stuff....without actually finding the flaw.

Well the key switch was actually bad....I could shut the bike by just jiggling the key, or turning it slightly.  But the bike still had sudden stop after I replaced the key switch with a heavy duty toggle switch. So that was one issue, but not the only issue.

I'm not convinced that those who have had the relay(s) swapped out, will not have issues in the future.

Oh yeah, one guy...it was just bad junctions of the many connectors located under the seat...they checked them all and secured them and his problem seemed solved!



Cookie

Thanks Cookie.   It seems you have found a solution since the breakdowns did happen at shorter intervals...
At the moment my bike is at the concess. They have already checked the relays and say they've found nothing wrong with them.   Next step, they want ro ride it to experience the breakdown in situ...That is if "the thing" happens while they are riding the bike!  . Although I believe my description of the symptoms to be fairly clear they sort of don't want to accept it , or is it that, as  I suspect, they dont really know what to look for....  so I'll put some pressure on them and let you know of the outcome!

[ace30]

 yes you're right, it's not the mecchanics' fault. I'm just a bit pissed off by all that!  I am waiting for the results of the further investigations they are carrying out... Did you also check those connections under the seat?

[twocoolgliders]

No, I did not check EVERY connection...but the few that I did....RE has used high quality plugs and sockets, and they have tab locks on them, and all were tight that I checked....so I assumed the others are good (unless they're not!)


Cookie

yes you're right, it's not the mecchanics' fault. I'm just a bit pissed off by all that!  I am waiting for the results of the further investigations they are carrying out... Did you also check those connections under the seat?

[ace30]

OKido.   I saw a video from  a  British guy whose intercepteor has the s

[ace30]

....oups! my finger slipped on a dammed key!
SO That british guy found a connector behind the left hand side pannel that was filled with grease.  Cleaned it thouroughly and apprarently everything's ok now...so far!!!!!  Sounds like the story of the lochness monster!
I'll try to find the video and post it.

[twocoolgliders]

??

OKido.   I saw a video from  a  British guy whose intercepteor has the s

[eddiesgirl]

??

He corrected next post...

[Breeze]

I had the first ER-6n. This bike had many issues with corrosion at the wiring plugs.

Very expensive corrosion ussues especially at the ABS-module-plug.

I put special grease, called Plastilube, on the contacts. Worked fine until 95.000 km.

[Starpeve]

Harley has had the Jiffy Stand since the 1930s. It locks in place when weight is on it but easily retracts when the weight comes off. When BMW introduced the non-adventure style dirt bike 20 years ago, the HP, I sat on one at the dealership. I put the stand down but when I got off the bike and the air suspension raised the bike, the stand came up and down went the bike onto its cylinder head. In the 80s almost all Japanese bikes had a rubber plug that hung below the stand. Ride off with the stand down and the rubber toe would drag and retract the stand. There was even a factory spec for how worn to the rubber could be. Can you imagine doing it so often that you wore out the safety rubber?

All of my mates and myself did it regularly as young blokes. Many people have come horribly unstuck via the side stand. I’ve launched sideways across the road on a couple of occasions. If I were to advocate 1 safety feature on a bike, side stand cutout switch would be it.
As a matter of fact, a promising South Aussie rider,Carl Hammersly, was killed taking a sponsor XS1100 Yam home by an errant side stand that kicked him into a street post back in the day.

[twocoolgliders]

I agree.  I try to be smart enough to know when I'm stupid!  I "may have" taken off with side stand down on my old Honda scooter!  It has that rubber thingy, but you still get a 'jump' when you turn  left, as the stand self retracts.

This interlock switch, is one safety device which I will not disable!


Cookie

All of my mates and myself did it regularly as young blokes. Many people have come horribly unstuck via the side stand. I’ve launched sideways across the road on a couple of occasions. If I were to advocate 1 safety feature on a bike, side stand cutout switch would be it.
As a matter of fact, a promising South Aussie rider,Carl Hammersly, was killed taking a sponsor XS1100 Yam home by an errant side stand that kicked him into a street post back in the day.

[ace30]

Hello there, I had news today from the RE agent where my bike has been tested for  nearly two weeks. They think that they've found the cause of the intermittent breakdowns: excessive grease in a connector.

[twocoolgliders]

That heavy globs of grease on the electrical stuff does seem to be a common denominator.

Grease does not conduct, but it is used as an anti corrosion treatment.

The trouble is, I haven't seen one solution which was actually definitive...

here, they "Think" is was the grease...

For some other forum members they "thought" it was the fuel pump, until it wasn't, then they "thought" it was the relay.  But was it a bad relay or a greasy relay?

Some "Thought" it was loose connectors under the seat..

I thought it was the side-stand switch, until it wasn't .  Then I thought it was the ignition key lock..which it was, but then something else went wrong..Then I "thought" it was the roll over sensor..... bike hasn't quit since I disabled that...but did I really fix the issue?

Does changing a relay also mean the grease was cleaned up?  So was it the grease or the relay that was bad?



Cookie

Hello there, I had news today from the RE agent where my bike has been tested for  nearly two weeks. They think that they've found the cause of the intermittent breakdowns: excessive grease in a connector.

[zimmemr]

That heavy globs of grease on the electrical stuff does seem to be a common denominator.

Grease does not conduct, but it is used as an anti corrosion treatment.

The trouble is, I haven't seen one solution which was actually definitive...

here, they "Think" is was the grease...

For some other forum members they "thought" it was the fuel pump, until it wasn't, then they "thought" it was the relay.  But was it a bad relay or a greasy relay?

Some "Thought" it was loose connectors under the seat..

I thought it was the side-stand switch, until it wasn't .  Then I thought it was the ignition key lock..which it was, but then something else went wrong..Then I "thought" it was the roll over sensor..... bike hasn't quit since I disabled that...but did I really fix the issue?

Does changing a relay also mean the grease was cleaned up?  So was it the grease or the relay that was bad?



Cookie


All good points. I'd suggest that excess grease might attract dirt, which in theory might, operative word being might, create a problem by shorting between terminals, but admittedly that's a long shot. I have seen batteries short, especially in the winter and particularly on older Ford F750 trucks because dirt built up on the top of the battery creating a short to ground. But that was in the days when the batteries were in the wheel well and the hold downs metal frames. A simple test with an ohm meter would tell the tale.

[Starpeve]

That heavy globs of grease on the electrical stuff does seem to be a common denominator.

Grease does not conduct, but it is used as an anti corrosion treatment.

The trouble is, I haven't seen one solution which was actually definitive...

here, they "Think" is was the grease...

For some other forum members they "thought" it was the fuel pump, until it wasn't, then they "thought" it was the relay.  But was it a bad relay or a greasy relay?

Some "Thought" it was loose connectors under the seat..

I thought it was the side-stand switch, until it wasn't .  Then I thought it was the ignition key lock..which it was, but then something else went wrong..Then I "thought" it was the roll over sensor..... bike hasn't quit since I disabled that...but did I really fix the issue?

Does changing a relay also mean the grease was cleaned up?  So was it the grease or the relay that was bad?



Cookie

Why the hell wouldn’t they have used a conductive grease? Isn’t the white silicone grease they use on circuit boards conductive? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

[twocoolgliders]

https://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

Read the above and decide for yourself.....

(Wouldn't "conductive" grease on multi pin connectors cause short circuits?)


Cookie

Why the hell wouldn’t they have used a conductive grease? Isn’t the white silicone grease they use on circuit boards conductive? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

[retro-rex]

Cookie. Jumboland tomorrow? LOL

[twocoolgliders]

Hey the thought crossed my mind!  It was a nice day today once the snow stopped!

(What could possibly go wrong?)

Cookie

Cookie. Jumboland tomorrow? LOL

[beagle]

Gotta look at the positive side...It died five times, but has four more lives left....

[twocoolgliders]

I think of it more like a Zombie...


Cookie

Gotta look at the positive side...It died five times, but has four more lives left....

[woody35]

Thanks to all your posts guys,\. It has given me some thoughts re my post today!

[Berti]

Hellow. I had the same problem as you with my GT650. I wiped the grease off the relays, but the bike continued to fail. I took it to a Royal Enfield official mechanic in Barcelona. He had the bike for 10 days. It failed so few times that it was difficult for him to know where the problem might be. He took the pieces  apart, cleaned and tightened everything. He said that perhaps the problem was with the ignition key connection, which he retightened. Or maybe the kickstand sensor. It has not failed me one more.
I have a video on Youtube https://youtu.be/aJUz8JurOQo

[twocoolgliders]

This is the "mystery" of these sudden engine stoppages!

Intermittent electrical problems are almost impossible to diagnose, because when you bring it to the mechanic, the bike will run normally, so what's to fix?

So far I've followed maybe 10people who had this issue...but NONE of them or their dealers came up with a definite failure...they just cleaned stuff up, checked connections, changes out some random parts, and the problem 'seemed" to go away.  I did the same, made some random "fixes" and the problem seems to have gone away.

When I was a little kid, I was sort of "mechanically inclined"...my dad would bring me stuff which was "broken" so I could take it apart, and "see how it worked".  (radios, fans, electric drills, etc)

Many times, I would take the thing apart, then put it back together, and it would work again!  No idea what I actually "fixed" but probably a loose wire, bad ground, dirt in the brushes, etc.

So far this seems to be the remedy for the RE's...not very scientific!


Cookie

Hellow. I had the same problem as you with my GT650. I wiped the grease off the relays, but the bike continued to fail. I took it to a Royal Enfield official mechanic in Barcelona. He had the bike for 10 days. It failed so few times that it was difficult for him to know where the problem might be. He took the pieces  apart, cleaned and tightened everything. He said that perhaps the problem was with the ignition key connection, which he retightened. Or maybe the kickstand sensor. It has not failed me one more.
I have a video on Youtube https://youtu.be/aJUz8JurOQo

[zimmemr]

This is the "mystery" of these sudden engine stoppages!

Intermittent electrical problems are almost impossible to diagnose, because when you bring it to the mechanic, the bike will run normally, so what's to fix?

So far I've followed maybe 10people who had this issue...but NONE of them or their dealers came up with a definite failure...they just cleaned stuff up, checked connections, changes out some random parts, and the problem 'seemed" to go away.  I did the same, made some random "fixes" and the problem seems to have gone away.

When I was a little kid, I was sort of "mechanically inclined"...my dad would bring me stuff which was "broken" so I could take it apart, and "see how it worked".  (radios, fans, electric drills, etc)

Many times, I would take the thing apart, then put it back together, and it would work again!  No idea what I actually "fixed" but probably a loose wire, bad ground, dirt in the brushes, etc.

So far this seems to be the remedy for the RE's...not very scientific!


Cookie

This points to one of motorcycling's great ironies: In the past many  motorcycles, especially the British ones had lots of niggling problems, especially with their electrical systems that would drive you nuts but were ultimately easy to diagnose and repair. Todays motorcycles are paragons of reliability, even the worst of them needs far less maintenance and repair and offers far more performance than the best motorcycles from the "Golden Era." Anyone that owned anything with points and carburetors, especially if they were attached to a British bike, knows exactly what I mean.

 But when something modern has any kind of failure, intermittent or other wise, and especially when that failure doesn't set a hard code, it can be a nightmare to figure out. Worse, as Cookie points out in many cases the "repair" is at best inconclusive. By the same token, back in the day, a roadside failure could usually be repaired on site, or at least hacked well enough to run. These days if your bike stops on the side of the road, it's very difficult, in most cases impossible to repair. So I always wonder how much better we really are?

[Jack Straw]

Yep, it's like trading the blue devil for the green one.

[zimmemr]

Yep, it's like trading the blue devil for the green one.

Yeah it is. One of the reasons I retired was because instead of actually repairing stuff, I found that I was spending an inordinate amount of time tracking down elusive sensor related problems, the majority of which were caused by government mandated emission equipment. If you guys think removing the valve cover from a Interceptor is a pain in the ass try replacing the EGR cooler or exhaust manifold, both of which failed with a distressing regularity on a MAXX-Force DT International engine.

[eddiesgirl]

So I always wonder how much better we really are?

Yuval Harari would say we're not better off as far as joy is concerned in the last 10,000 years or so. All our upgrades haven't really given us "better" lives. Longer, yes; for some less painful in the end, yes. But not really better. All this says to me is that motorcycle development is right up there with anthropological outcomes.

[agagliardi]

Wow look at the big brain on Eddies girl. It figures that the only female forum contributor is the most intellectual. Stop confusing us Neanderthals.

[NVDucati]

Yuval Harari would say we're not better off as far as joy is concerned in the last 10,000 years or so. All our upgrades haven't really given us "better" lives. Longer, yes; for some less painful in the end, yes. But not really better. All this says to me is that motorcycle development is right up there with anthropological outcomes.

Point well taken. However, it begs the question: Would old Yuval rather walk than ride a Harley?

[zimmemr]

Point well taken. However, it begs the question: Would old Yuval rather walk than ride a Harley?

My apologies to Eddisgirl, she's only the messenger here, and this is no reflection on her, but I'm calling BS on Yuval Harai. 10,000 years ago life was brutal and very short, it's hard to be joyful when your next meal is uncertain, you're cold, and scared most of the time and 3/4's of your children are dead before they're a year old. And as Yuval himself knows he would have faced certain extermination had he'd been born almost anywhere in Europe at anytime prior to 1945. If that doesn't bring him a bit of joy I don't know what would. I'd also point out the fact that he enjoys a certain lifestyle that would have been unobtainable to him had it not been for technology.

To propose that our lives aren't better than they were in even the 1800's, let alone 10,000 years ago strikes me as preposterous. There's a lot about modern times that I find, silly, scary, and down right perplexing, and yes, an over dependence on technology is one of those things. But I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that our lives aren't in some measure happier, more joyous if you will, and overall better because of that technology.

[twocoolgliders]

Speaking just for myself...Life is pretty damn good!

I've never gone hungry.

I've always had good shelter, good living conditions.

I've always made a descent buck..enough to do pretty much anything I wanted to do (within reason)

I've been all busted up and received top notch medical care..

Most if not all of my problems have been what I call "high class problems"

Biggest problem on my mind right now is finding a dust seal for my 35 year old scooter.....alas!

Cookie

My apologies to Eddisgirl, she's only the messenger here, and this is no reflection on her, but I'm calling BS on Yuval Harai. 10,000 years ago life was brutal and very short, it's hard to be joyful when your next meal is uncertain, you're cold, and scared most of the time and 3/4's of your children are dead before they're a year old. And as Yuval himself knows he would have faced certain extermination had he'd been born almost anywhere in Europe at anytime prior to 1945. If that doesn't bring him a bit of joy I don't know what would. I'd also point out the fact that he enjoys a certain lifestyle that would have been unobtainable to him had it not been for technology.

To propose that are lives aren't better than they were in even the 1800's, let alone 10,000 years ago strikes me as preposterous. There's a lot about modern times that I find, silly, scary, and down right perplexing, and yes, an over dependence on technology is one of those things. But I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that our lives aren't in some measure happier, more joyous if you will, and overall better because of that technology.

[eddiesgirl]

My apologies to Eddisgirl, she's only the messenger here, and this is no reflection on her, but I'm calling BS on Yuval Harai. 10,000 years ago life was brutal and very short, it's hard to be joyful when your next meal is uncertain, you're cold, and scared most of the time and 3/4's of your children are dead before they're a year old. And as Yuval himself knows he would have faced certain extermination had he'd been born almost anywhere in Europe at anytime prior to 1945. If that doesn't bring him a bit of joy I don't know what would. I'd also point out the fact that he enjoys a certain lifestyle that would have been unobtainable to him had it not been for technology.

To propose that our lives aren't better than they were in even the 1800's, let alone 10,000 years ago strikes me as preposterous. There's a lot about modern times that I find, silly, scary, and down right perplexing, and yes, an over dependence on technology is one of those things. But I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that our lives aren't in some measure happier, more joyous if you will, and overall better because of that technology.

Point taken and I get it - I'd like to think that joy is at least more attainable now than it was even 100 years ago.  I do believe Harari is speaking generally and from a geological time base, and not one of specific lifespan. I also think that medicine, while available to only some, has far bettered the lives of many.  That said, a glimpse at the book "Geography of Bliss" beckons a mention. It's funny if nothing else, and I always thought it gave a good perspective of the BS we seem to find important to feel joy. Another one is Brene Brown, who says that (from her research), joy is the hardest feeling to actually lean into and feel. Worse than any other. What does that say about us that westerners struggle to feel joy? 

And now it's a philosophy class...damn.

[zimmemr]

Point taken and I get it - I'd like to think that joy is at least more attainable now than it was even 100 years ago.  I do believe Harari is speaking generally and from a geological time base, and not one of specific lifespan. I also think that medicine, while available to only some, has far bettered the lives of many.  That said, a glimpse at the book "Geography of Bliss" beckons a mention. It's funny if nothing else, and I always thought it gave a good perspective of the BS we seem to find important to feel joy. Another one is Brene Brown, who says that (from her research), joy is the hardest feeling to actually lean into and feel. Worse than any other. What does that say about us that westerners struggle to feel joy? 

And now it's a philosophy class...damn.

I can only speak for myself but I've never had to struggle to find joy, or perhaps more accurately contentment. It came from knowing I did my job well, that I took care of family and that in some small way I left my mark on the world. Being able to provide them and myself with material things was always a bonus and a lot of fun, but that's never been a motivating factor in the way I felt about myself or life in general.

As a side issue: If you want to see how opinions on technology can change in heartbeat, hang around with an electrical utility crew for a few months. When the power is on, it's completely taken for granted, especially by people how have no clue as to what it takes to keep it on. Folks scream and yell for "green options" complain about how electricity is generated, whine about fossil fuel, I'm sure you get the picture. But let that power go out for a few days and they'd let you'd build a coal fired plant next to their kids day care if it meant the power would stay on.

FWIW if you want a good, though dated, read on changing technology and how it's affected our lives I'd suggest reading just about anything by Eric Sloane. He's not particularly popular now, and I'm sure a lot of his stuff is out of print, but it's easy reading, very educational and I enjoy his illustrations, though that's not true of all. I'd suggest starting with his "Vanishing  Landscape," or maybe "America." He was a curmudgeonly old drunk, but entertaining and is very good at explaining how technology has changed the American landscape and psyche.

[eddiesgirl]

I can only speak for myself but I've never had to struggle to find joy, or perhaps more accurately contentment. It came from knowing I did my job well, that I took care of family and that in some small way I left my mark on the world. Being able to provide them and myself with material things was always a bonus and a lot of fun, but that's never been a motivating factor in the way I felt about myself or life in general.

As a side issue: If you want to see how opinions on technology can change in heartbeat, hang around with an electrical utility crew for a few months. When the power is on, it's completely taken for granted, especially by people how have no clue as to what it takes to keep it on. Folks scream and yell for "green options" complain about how electricity is generated, whine about fossil fuel, I'm sure you get the picture. But let that power go out for a few days and they'd let you'd build a coal fired plant next to their kids day care if it meant the power would stay on.

FWIW if you want a good, though dated, read on changing technology and how it's affected our lives I'd suggest reading just about anything by Eric Sloane. He's not particularly popular now, and I'm sure a lot of his stuff is out of print, but it's easy reading, very educational and I enjoy his illustrations, though that's not true of all. I'd suggest starting with his "Vanishing  Landscape," or maybe "America." He was a curmudgeonly old drunk, but entertaining and is very good at explaining how technology has changed the American landscape and psyche.

Oh that is so true! I live in the land of fires caused (no really) by the electric company, so there's ire and mistrust...and yet I do love my electricity. I'll check out Sloane - I always go back to my own childhood when it comes to tech.  Without taking a political side, I will say one of the worst and most devastating things to happen in our recent culture (here in the US) was the deregulation of advertising to children in the early 80s.  I truly believe that, beyond any other change in law and regulation, that particular one (started, believe it or not, by cereal companies who wanted to push their crap on kids) created and maintains the platform upon which we have all grown to see as normal tech growth starting very young. Being "linked in" is now a necessity from birth, whether parents engage in it or not. And that is the hardest to get past - the psychological damage to children is killer, and it's leading into adulthood (millennials for Christ's sake) that has a stain anyone GenX or younger can see in red.

[zimmemr]

Oh that is so true! I live in the land of fires caused (no really) by the electric company, so there's ire and mistrust...and yet I do love my electricity. I'll check out Sloane - I always go back to my own childhood when it comes to tech.  Without taking a political side, I will say one of the worst and most devastating things to happen in our recent culture (here in the US) was the deregulation of advertising to children in the early 80s.  I truly believe that, beyond any other change in law and regulation, that particular one (started, believe it or not, by cereal companies who wanted to push their crap on kids) created and maintains the platform upon which we have all grown to see as normal tech growth starting very young. Being "linked in" is now a necessity from birth, whether parents engage in it or not. And that is the hardest to get past - the psychological damage to children is killer, and it's leading into adulthood (millennials for Christ's sake) that has a stain anyone GenX or younger can see in red.

I think the amount of blame that can be placed on CA's utility companies is debatable, yes they bear some, maybe a significant amount of responsibility, but any utility company can only do what the regulators allow, and in most cases the state boards are made up of people that have a lack of expertise and either are in bed with the utilities they're supposed to control, or use their position to feather their own nests. Of course that's coming from someone that spent 32 working for Connecticut Light and Power, and loved every minute of it, so I'll admit to being biased.

As to the rest of it, I think you hit the nail right on the head. It's absolutely amazing to me how "connected" so many people, especially youngsters, which to me is anyone under 45, have to be. What on earth can be so important that you have to constantly stare at your phone? Hell I don't know 10 people I'd call. 

Do check out Sloane. I think you'd enjoy him. Fun fact: In addition to being an artist and writer, he was also the worlds first on air TV weatherman.
He lived in Kent Ct, which in his days had yet to become a celebrity hangout where he was also the town drunk.

[olhogrider]

Another one is Brene Brown, who says that (from her research), joy is the hardest feeling to actually lean into and feel. Worse than any other. What does that say about us that westerners struggle to feel joy? 

And now it's a philosophy class...damn.

Sounds like projection. I feel joy every day. So many institutions run on guilt but I refuse to play that game. Given the same circumstances you can be happy or sad. I got to spend most of my life doing something fun for a job and now have hobbies that bring me joy. Life is better now than at any time in our history. Steven Pinker has written some well researched books to back up this claim. But then, I may be projecting as well.

[eddiesgirl]

I think the amount of blame that can be placed on CA's utility companies is debatable, yes they bear some, maybe a significant amount of responsibility, but any utility company can only do what the regulators allow, and in most cases the state boards are made up of people that have a lack of expertise and either are in bed with the utilities they're supposed to control, or use their position to feather their own nests. Of course that's coming from someone that spent 32 working for Connecticut Light and Power, and loved every minute of it, so I'll admit to being biased.

As to the rest of it, I think you hit the nail right on the head. It's absolutely amazing to me how "connected" so many people, especially youngsters, which to me is anyone under 45, have to be. What on earth can be so important that you have to constantly stare at your phone? Hell I don't know 10 people I'd call. 

Do check out Sloane. I think you'd enjoy him. Fun fact: In addition to being an artist and writer, he was also the worlds first on air TV weatherman.
He lived in Kent Ct, which in his days had yet to become a celebrity hangout where he was also the town drunk.

Sounds like my kind of guy.  In the case of fires, the big one down here was absolutely caused by negligence on the part of the power company - period.  They were doing unsafe work with no backup and no safety protocols in place in high winds. But...like anything, usually blame is passed down to the bottom tier (just like layoffs, low pay, zero support, etc.).  The armchair warriors who make most of the decisions and take most of the profits don't usually have any perspective or experience, and yet they are in power.  I suspect SoCal Edison workers the day of the fire knew how bad it was but they did not make the schedule, nor did they themselves do anything negligent. Just participators in a cruelly-organized situation.

[gizzo]

I like it here.

[zimmemr]

Sounds like my kind of guy.  In the case of fires, the big one down here was absolutely caused by negligence on the part of the power company - period.  They were doing unsafe work with no backup and no safety protocols in place in high winds. But...like anything, usually blame is passed down to the bottom tier (just like layoffs, low pay, zero support, etc.).  The armchair warriors who make most of the decisions and take most of the profits don't usually have any perspective or experience, and yet they are in power.  I suspect SoCal Edison workers the day of the fire knew how bad it was but they did not make the schedule, nor did they themselves do anything negligent. Just participators in a cruelly-organized situation.

One of my good friends left CL&P to work for PG&E. He was an outstanding line hand, a guy I'd trust with my life. He felt that PG&E was so far behind  the 8-ball when it came to maintenance and safety that it was criminal. He stayed for the climate, but described PG&E as a "circus," and felt all of the utilities in the area were in the same boat.

At CL&P we had our share of problems but we tried damn hard not to get anyone killed, especially customers. I'd imagine there's more than enough blame to go around in this instance.

And I'll go on record as saying that if the linemen on the job knew that there were short comings in their safety protocols, or that what they were doing was in any way unsafe, or might lead to an unsafe situation at some later point, and didn't shut the job down. Or at least demand that an onsite supervisor personally inspect and sign off on the job, then they were negligent and deserve to suffer the consequences, legal or otherwise.

[Hog Head]

Does anyone know the Denso PN for the apparently obsolete TOYOTA RELAY 90080-87009 AH156700-0930

No way to delete a hasty post so perhaps this will be helpful to someone else, as I found the Denso, made in Japan, part on Lazada (the mini Amazon of Asia)
https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i1396858750-s3569946435.html?urlFlag=true&mp=1&spm=spm%3Da2o4m.order_details.item_title.1

[Warwick]

It happened to me for the first time today!. Loss of electric power  in traffic. turned the key off and on and stared it up and rode away. Annoying. It seems to be the key switch as it seems to need to be in a particular spot to start
kind regards
Warwick 

[BC AVIATION]

The key switch has a flaw, in that if you "over rotate" the key, the contact bar will rotate past the contact nubs, so there is no contact!  One time the bike died, but I quickly wiggled the key and it started running again! I used to have to jiggle the key in order to get the bike to start  until  I eliminated the key switch altogether. 


But I've had stoppages after that...so I eliminated the roll over sensor..haven't had a stoppage after that, but that may be only coincidence....I really suspect one or more of the relays.


Cookie

It happened to me for the first time today!. Loss of electric power  in traffic. turned the key off and on and stared it up and rode away. Annoying. It seems to be the key switch as it seems to need to be in a particular spot to start
kind regards
Warwick

[Warwick]

is there a way to fix the ignition switch?
Kind regards
Warwick

[BC AVIATION]

Yes,

You could mine the brass, and get plastic beads...smelt the brass and forge it into little parts and machine it into shape...  buy an injection molding machine and melt the plastic and make a mold and inject the plastic and make all the plastic parts...then assemble and install on the bike...

So really ...no..it is a poor design form the start....

I put a toggle switch and threw out the OEM switch..


Cookie

is there a way to fix the ignition switch?
Kind regards
Warwick

[woody35]

Just been to my friendly RE dealer.  Bike only cut out once on the way!  He has diagnosed a faulty fuel pump relay and all seems good now on the trip home.

Great service from the guys at RE here.

Cheers


Ian

[Hog Head]

Just been to my friendly RE dealer.  Bike only cut out once on the way!  He has diagnosed a faulty fuel pump relay and all seems good now on the trip home.

Great service from the guys at RE here.

Cheers


Ian

Throw away all the shitty OEM relays and replace with quality ones for  peace of mine
Job done!

[ideola]

Wondering if this problem unique to 2020 and earlier bikes?

[whippers]

Wondering if this problem unique to 2020 and earlier bikes?

I sure hope so.  I for one can’t see any of the grease or whatever that is supposed to be all over the relays on my 2021 bike. I see quite a few issues mentioned on this forum that I hope I never have.  The only issue I have so far is the fogging in the instruments. Only 800kms into my ownership so far though.

[Seatex]

I know everyone has mentioned the to swap out the relays for quality units, and certainly clean the grease. It took me a while to chase down the problem in my 2020 Interceptor. One day, I replaced the roll over sensor and found a loose wire terminal in the harness which the relays plug into. I'm relatively sure that as I was pressing on all the terminals to ensure they were seated, I felt a "click" on one of them. The problem has not returned with at least 500 miles since. I can't say for sure if it was the roll over sensor or a loose wire, but others on this forum have had problems with both. Good luck.
 

[Warwick]

My engine stopping problem has seemed to disappear after i wiped most the grease of the relays. It was covered in heaps of white grease. Will confirm after lockdown and a few more miles are on the bike.
Cheers heaps
Warwick

[ideola]

FWIW, cross-posting some research I did for quality replacement relays. I found them here for less than $5 each
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/panasonic-electric-works/CM1-R-12V/647134

[Jack Straw]

As Cookie stated a few times, nobody has found a real, indisputable cause for the problem he describes.  My bike has had the same basic symptoms.  Re-fitting the fuel pump relay seemed the solution for me.  It was faultless for several thousand miles but returned recently.  A fresh quality relay made no difference.

The relay is often blamed but I've not heard of a single instance of a supposedly faulty relay actually testing as faulty.

Whether or not RE is even aware of these troubles is unknown.  What is known is the fact that beyond the well documented brake caliper recall RE has issued no technical service bulletins on the 650 twins in either the US or UK.  I find it surprising and dismaying that a bike now in its third model year has no record of TSBs.  Do they really not know of ANY problems or do they not care?

I knew before I purchased the Interceptor that the issue of service was a big question mark. Fortunately I'm capable of  taking care of most problems but many owner aren't mechanics, nor should those skills be necessary. The dealer network is thin on the ground and for many owners is simply too far away.  This forum is gradually cultivating a good knowledge base but the process of that cultivation is slow.  A little knowledge from the factory would help.

I admire RE and their efforts to build interest with their AFT racing and the Build, Train, Race program but honestly I'd rather see them do something really revolutionary like sending a review questionnaire to owners.  Ignoring the experience of the customer is a mistake for any business.

[zimmemr]

As Cookie stated a few times, nobody has found a real, indisputable cause for the problem he describes.  My bike has had the same basic symptoms.  Re-fitting the fuel pump relay seemed the solution for me.  It was faultless for several thousand miles but returned recently.  A fresh quality relay made no difference.

The relay is often blamed but I've not heard of a single instance of a supposedly faulty relay actually testing as faulty.

Whether or not RE is even aware of these troubles is unknown.  What is known is the fact that beyond the well documented brake caliper recall RE has issued no technical service bulletins on the 650 twins in either the US or UK.  I find it surprising and dismaying that a bike now in its third model year has no record of TSBs.  Do they really not know of ANY problems or do they not care?

I knew before I purchased the Interceptor that the issue of service was a big question mark. Fortunately I'm capable of  taking care of most problems but many owner aren't mechanics, nor should those skills be necessary. The dealer network is thin on the ground and for many owners is simply too far away.  This forum is gradually cultivating a good knowledge base but the process of that cultivation is slow.  A little knowledge from the factory would help.

I admire RE and their efforts to build interest with their AFT racing and the Build, Train, Race program but honestly I'd rather see them do something really revolutionary like sending a review questionnaire to owners.  Ignoring the experience of the customer is a mistake for any business.

Well said Jack and all very good points.

[lucky phil]

As Cookie stated a few times, nobody has found a real, indisputable cause for the problem he describes.  My bike has had the same basic symptoms.  Re-fitting the fuel pump relay seemed the solution for me.  It was faultless for several thousand miles but returned recently.  A fresh quality relay made no difference.

The relay is often blamed but I've not heard of a single instance of a supposedly faulty relay actually testing as faulty.

Whether or not RE is even aware of these troubles is unknown.  What is known is the fact that beyond the well documented brake caliper recall RE has issued no technical service bulletins on the 650 twins in either the US or UK.  I find it surprising and dismaying that a bike now in its third model year has no record of TSBs.  Do they really not know of ANY problems or do they not care?

I knew before I purchased the Interceptor that the issue of service was a big question mark. Fortunately I'm capable of  taking care of most problems but many owner aren't mechanics, nor should those skills be necessary. The dealer network is thin on the ground and for many owners is simply too far away.  This forum is gradually cultivating a good knowledge base but the process of that cultivation is slow.  A little knowledge from the factory would help.

I admire RE and their efforts to build interest with their AFT racing and the Build, Train, Race program but honestly I'd rather see them do something really revolutionary like sending a review questionnaire to owners.  Ignoring the experience of the customer is a mistake for any business.

Well if you don't develop the skills then you will at some point pay the consequences. You can't have your hand held forever, one day it will catch up with you. It's a bit like using a horse back in the day before cars and not knowing how to husband one day to day. People didn't have the luxury or the money to call a Vet every time their animal needed medical intervention, so they learned how to care for one. Historically the average person in the street had no choice but to have a broad knowledge of the things they dealt with day to day or relied upon. The other point is the level of technical skill in the automotive/motorcycle dealerships is woeful these days. I consider a warranty more of a liability than anything. I've seen plenty of people take in a vehicle for a simple warranty job to see it handed back to them in worse shape than it went in. 
Nope, best way is to put the effort into learning about stuff and gain your independence from the Muppets and shysters.

Ciao   

[ideola]

As Cookie stated a few times, nobody has found a real, indisputable cause for the problem he describes.  My bike has had the same basic symptoms.  Re-fitting the fuel pump relay seemed the solution for me.  It was faultless for several thousand miles but returned recently.  A fresh quality relay made no difference.

The relay is often blamed but I've not heard of a single instance of a supposedly faulty relay actually testing as faulty.

Whether or not RE is even aware of these troubles is unknown.  What is known is the fact that beyond the well documented brake caliper recall RE has issued no technical service bulletins on the 650 twins in either the US or UK.  I find it surprising and dismaying that a bike now in its third model year has no record of TSBs.  Do they really not know of ANY problems or do they not care?

I knew before I purchased the Interceptor that the issue of service was a big question mark. Fortunately I'm capable of  taking care of most problems but many owner aren't mechanics, nor should those skills be necessary. The dealer network is thin on the ground and for many owners is simply too far away.  This forum is gradually cultivating a good knowledge base but the process of that cultivation is slow.  A little knowledge from the factory would help.

I admire RE and their efforts to build interest with their AFT racing and the Build, Train, Race program but honestly I'd rather see them do something really revolutionary like sending a review questionnaire to owners.  Ignoring the experience of the customer is a mistake for any business.

This is well-stated, and I agree.

I still wonder if this is an issue that is limited to a run of 2020 models. As far as I can tell, everyone posting about this problem has a 2020. It would be worthwhile for us as a community to see if we could gather such information, including the serial number range. It may be a fault that is isolated to a specific period of manufacture.

[Jack Straw]

Good Lord, do you ever actually read your posts?  Maybe try being just a bit less arrogant. 

[lucky phil]

Good Lord, do you ever actually read your posts?  Maybe try being just a bit less arrogant.

I'm an Aussie and that's just Aussie plain speakin.

Ciao

[iblastoff]

As Cookie stated a few times, nobody has found a real, indisputable cause for the problem he describes.  My bike has had the same basic symptoms.  Re-fitting the fuel pump relay seemed the solution for me.  It was faultless for several thousand miles but returned recently.  A fresh quality relay made no difference.

The relay is often blamed but I've not heard of a single instance of a supposedly faulty relay actually testing as faulty.

Whether or not RE is even aware of these troubles is unknown.  What is known is the fact that beyond the well documented brake caliper recall RE has issued no technical service bulletins on the 650 twins in either the US or UK.  I find it surprising and dismaying that a bike now in its third model year has no record of TSBs.  Do they really not know of ANY problems or do they not care?

I knew before I purchased the Interceptor that the issue of service was a big question mark. Fortunately I'm capable of  taking care of most problems but many owner aren't mechanics, nor should those skills be necessary. The dealer network is thin on the ground and for many owners is simply too far away.  This forum is gradually cultivating a good knowledge base but the process of that cultivation is slow.  A little knowledge from the factory would help.

I admire RE and their efforts to build interest with their AFT racing and the Build, Train, Race program but honestly I'd rather see them do something really revolutionary like sending a review questionnaire to owners.  Ignoring the experience of the customer is a mistake for any business.

all i know is when i had my issue with my bike, royal enfield wanted me to sign an NDA and not tell anyone about it lol.

[Breezin]

I admire RE and their efforts to build interest with their AFT racing and the Build, Train, Race program but honestly I'd rather see them do something really revolutionary like sending a review questionnaire to owners.  Ignoring the experience of the customer is a mistake for any business.

+1!

[lucky phil]

+1!

I've been riding and buying Ducati's for 35 years and they've never taken the slightest notice of what their customers thought. Hasn't done them any harm sales wise. As a matter of fact that's what I like about Ducati, they build what the hell they want and if you don't like it you can sod off and buy something else. Corporate honesty.

Ciao   

[Starpeve]

Well if you don't develop the skills then you will at some point pay the consequences. You can't have your hand held forever, one day it will catch up with you. It's a bit like using a horse back in the day before cars and not knowing how to husband one day to day. People didn't have the luxury or the money to call a Vet every time their animal needed medical intervention, so they learned how to care for one. Historically the average person in the street had no choice but to have a broad knowledge of the things they dealt with day to day or relied upon. The other point is the level of technical skill in the automotive/motorcycle dealerships is woeful these days. I consider a warranty more of a liability than anything. I've seen plenty of people take in a vehicle for a simple warranty job to see it handed back to them in worse shape than it went in. 
Nope, best way is to put the effort into learning about stuff and gain your independence from the Muppets and shysters.

Ciao   

I totally agree with 99.3% of this.
Especially about the skill sets that you developed in‘The Old Days’ because you had no options.
My life has been a litany of improv repairs on the cheap. I came from low income stock, and never rose above that mindset, even though I’m technically trained. I’ve known some pretty ‘challenged’ characters, who became technically proficient bush mechanics, against all expectations. Experience can be acquired by anyone of any IQ. I suspect there’s a savant factor in there too.
I’ve got a pretty high IQ, but I’m as thick as a plank in SO many ways. Happily for me, I’ve got a mechanical bent, and I love beer. A marriage made in Heaven.

[Starpeve]

I've been riding and buying Ducati's for 35 years and they've never taken the slightest notice of what their customers thought. Hasn't done them any harm sales wise. As a matter of fact that's what I like about Ducati, they build what the hell they want and if you don't like it you can sod off and buy something else. Corporate honesty.

Ciao   

👍👍👍

[zimmemr]

Well if you don't develop the skills then you will at some point pay the consequences. You can't have your hand held forever, one day it will catch up with you. It's a bit like using a horse back in the day before cars and not knowing how to husband one day to day. People didn't have the luxury or the money to call a Vet every time their animal needed medical intervention, so they learned how to care for one. Historically the average person in the street had no choice but to have a broad knowledge of the things they dealt with day to day or relied upon. The other point is the level of technical skill in the automotive/motorcycle dealerships is woeful these days. I consider a warranty more of a liability than anything. I've seen plenty of people take in a vehicle for a simple warranty job to see it handed back to them in worse shape than it went in. 
Nope, best way is to put the effort into learning about stuff and gain your independence from the Muppets and shysters.

Ciao   

In broad strokes you have a valid point. Every rider should develop the skills needed to maintain his motorcyle and to make make basic repairs. But that being said. We're not talking about basic maintenance here. Most people don't have the tools or the skills or the experiance to troubleshoot a problem like Jack, Cookie and quite a few others are dealing with here. Nor should they have to develop them.

New bikes with random shut off problems are simply unacceptable in this day and age, imagine if your new F150 Pickup or whatever had a similar problem, you'd be back at the dealership in a heartbeat demanding they fix it or replace the vehicle.

Expecting a rider, no matter what his level of experiance, to forgo warranty consideration when his low mileage still under warranty bike suddenly decides to quit running whenever it feels like it is foolish. Simple as Interceptor is it's still a complicated device, especially when you don't have a scan tool, don't know how to use one or interpert the information it provides and don't have access to the parts you need to fix it.

RE owes it's customers a certain level of consideration and from what I see it's not providing it. At the very least they need to enforce some basic standards in their dealerships. For starters the techs should have some product specific training before the bikes can be sold. They should also be trained to be able to perform basic diagnositc work using the RE specific scan tool. From what I see here in the states RENA basically ships the bikes to any dealer that wants the franchise and expects them to figure out the rest. Problem is when a customer runs into something that's tricky for anyone, including yourself Lucky Phil to troubleshoot they just can't do it. Expecting the customer to pick up the slack and diagnose problems that require may require troubleshooting to a level that requires years of experiance and sophisticated training is just foolish.

Frankly I'd expect better from a trained engineer, and especially from one that's been around motorcycles as long as you have. 

[lucky phil]

In broad strokes you have a valid point. Every rider should develop the skills needed to maintain his motorcyle and to make make basic repairs. But that being said. We're not talking about basic maintenance here. Most people don't have the tools or the skills or the experiance to troubleshoot a problem like Jack, Cookie and quite a few others are dealing with here. Nor should they have to develop them.

New bikes with random shut off problems are simply unacceptable in this day and age, imagine if your new F150 Pickup or whatever had a similar problem, you'd be back at the dealership in a heartbeat demanding they fix it or replace the vehicle.

Expecting a rider, no matter what his level of experiance, to forgo warranty consideration when his low mileage still under warranty bike suddenly decides to quit running whenever it feels like it is foolish. Simple as Interceptor is it's still a complicated device, especially when you don't have a scan tool, don't know how to use one or interpert the information it provides and don't have access to the parts you need to fix it.

RE owes it's customers a certain level of consideration and from what I see it's not providing it. At the very least they need to enforce some basic standards in their dealerships. For starters the techs should have some product specific training before the bikes can be sold. They should also be trained to be able to perform basic diagnositc work using the RE specific scan tool. From what I see here in the states RENA basically ships the bikes to any dealer that wants the franchise and expects them to figure out the rest. Problem is when a customer runs into something that's tricky for anyone, including yourself Lucky Phil to troubleshoot they just can't do it. Expecting the customer to pick up the slack and diagnose problems that require may require troubleshooting to a level that requires years of experiance and sophisticated training is just foolish.

Frankly I'd expect better from a trained engineer, and especially from one that's been around motorcycles as long as you have.

If you are putting your faith in dealership techs then you're going to be in for a rough ride as an owner of pretty much anything these days esp in the car world. I know, I've worked in motorcycle dealership workshops and have good friends that have made their living doing it. I'd estimate about 5% of them are on their game and the rest well lets put it this way are less than ordinary to varying degrees. Hence the need to at the very least educate yourself on whatever vehicle you ride/drive so if you need to rely on a dealer tech you can at least know when he's taking your money for poor quality work. I've had plenty of experiences of techs that can't troubleshoot if there's no code logged by the ECU! They just send the customer away!
As for expensive diagnostic tooling, this is the 21st century, they're available cheap everywhere. The unit below is like $40 or something on ebay or you can go the cheaper option of an OBD2 reader and adaptor cable and a $15 app on your smart phone and at least be able to read the fault codes and clear them. Then there's a decent multimetre. 
Then there are people like me that spend about an hour a day on various forums helping people, via PM's usually, troubleshoot their vehicles, some even on this forum. People including me are quite willing to help but the owner has a responsibility to make themselves somewhat aware of the technology. This is a general opinion and aimed at no one in particular but in response to the idea that the owner has no responsibility to know any tech stuff about his vehicle. Sure go down that road and you may be fine but when it does turn to shit at some point you will pay the price for not putting in the effort and a few dollars to at least know enough to do some basic troubleshooting.
None of this is that hard it just takes the commitment and time to find out about it.
As for the value of a warranty, well my Sunday drive car was recalled for a head gasket change as were 27000 others. I took 1 look at the job and knew it was way beyond the ability of a modern day dealer tech so I spent my own money on parts and tooling to do it myself. That's how much faith I have in dealer techs. Three years later those 27000 customers are still living with the resulting endless oil leaks wrong valve timing, bent valves, burnt exhaust valves, the job being redone all over again, the list goes on. There's not much comfort in a warranty that drives you to the point of a breakdown with endless trips to the dealer to fix the mess they've made of it and your DD off the road endlessly. 

Ciao

[zimmemr]

If you are putting your faith in dealership techs then you're going to be in for a rough ride as an owner of pretty much anything these days esp in the car world. I know, I've worked in motorcycle dealership workshops and have good friends that have made their living doing it. I'd estimate about 5% of them are on their game and the rest well lets put it this way are less than ordinary to varying degrees. Hence the need to at the very least educate yourself on whatever vehicle you ride/drive so if you need to rely on a dealer tech you can at least know when he's taking your money for poor quality work. I've had plenty of experiences of techs that can't troubleshoot if there's no code logged by the ECU! They just send the customer away!
As for expensive diagnostic tooling, this is the 21st century, they're available cheap everywhere. The unit below is like $40 or something on ebay or you can go the cheaper option of an OBD2 reader and adaptor cable and a $15 app on your smart phone and at least be able to read the fault codes and clear them. Then there's a decent multimetre. 
Then there are people like me that spend about an hour a day on various forums helping people, via PM's usually, troubleshoot their vehicles, some even on this forum. People including me are quite willing to help but the owner has a responsibility to make themselves somewhat aware of the technology. This is a general opinion and aimed at no one in particular but in response to the idea that the owner has no responsibility to know any tech stuff about his vehicle. Sure go down that road and you may be fine but when it does turn to shit at some point you will pay the price for not putting in the effort and a few dollars to at least know enough to do some basic troubleshooting.
None of this is that hard it just takes the commitment and time to find out about it.
As for the value of a warranty, well my Sunday drive car was recalled for a head gasket change as were 27000 others. I took 1 look at the job and knew it was way beyond the ability of a modern day dealer tech so I spent my own money on parts and tooling to do it myself. That's how much faith I have in dealer techs. Three years later those 27000 customers are still living with the resulting endless oil leaks wrong valve timing, bent valves, burnt exhaust valves, the job being redone all over again, the list goes on. There's not much comfort in a warranty that drives you to the point of a breakdown with endless trips to the dealer to fix the mess they've made of it and your DD off the road endlessly. 

Ciao

As I previously stated, in principle I agree with you. Every motor vehicle owner, be it of a car, motorcycle, truck or lawnmower, needs to have some understanding of how things work. Which among other reasons is why I wrote several books on motorcycle repair and restoration and spent 20 years at various motorcycle magazines as a technical editor.

Having spent 50 years as a working mechanic, including a long stint as a dealer principle in a Suzuki/BMW/Ducati and Moto Guzzi dealership, I'd also agree that for reasons too numerous to discuss here dealer service departments are often less than Ideal. In my experiance ratio of good to bad is closer to 50/50 but your experiance is obviously different.

Where we disagree is obviously in the role the OEM's and the owners should play when it comes to things like warranty. I think expecting the average owner to be able to diagnose and repair his or her own vehicle is unrealistic, and especially so when it comes to situations like your head gasket. The average owner just doesn't have the skills, the training or the tools let alone the inclination to do anything like that, nor in my opinion should they be expected to. As you point out this is 21 century.
 
It's also the reasponsibility of the OEM's to ensure that thier products meet a certain standard, and one way they do that is by offering a warranty and standing by it. As an aside I'd also suggest that unless the OEM gets feed back from the owners they won't realize that certain issues, such as poorly designed brake calipers are causing problems.

My bottom line here is that I don't think the customer should be the last link in the development chain nor do I think it's his or her reasponsiblity to repair problems that shouldn't have occured, especailly in a new vehicle had the OEM paid a bit more attention to the overall quality of thier products.

[ideola]

Seems like we're wandering over toward the campfire with this discussion, yes?

I'd still like to know if all of the documented examples are 2020 models.

[zimmemr]

Seems like we're wandering over toward the campfire with this discussion, yes?

I'd still like to know if all of the documented examples are 2020 models.

I'd just as soon end the discussion, it's pointless, basically two guys who have no control in the matter spouting off.

But to answer your question the issue seems to be very random, and seems to affect all years. Of course this being a forum we may being seeing a disproportionate number of posters that have encounterd the problem.

I've spoken to three dealers and none of them have had a single complaint concerning random shut offs. Two of the dealers have sold them since they were released, one has only been around since last January. In total they've probably sold 100=125 bikes.  Obviously all my info is anecdotal
and may not account for guys who are just living with the problem or trying to fix it themselves.

[lucky phil]

As I previously stated, in principle I agree with you. Every motor vehicle owner, be it of a car, motorcycle, truck or lawnmower, needs to have some understanding of how things work. Which among other reasons is why I wrote several books on motorcycle repair and restoration and spent 20 years at various motorcycle magazines as a technical editor.

Having spent 50 years as a working mechanic, including a long stint as a dealer principle in a Suzuki/BMW/Ducati and Moto Guzzi dealership, I'd also agree that for reasons too numerous to discuss here dealer service departments are often less than Ideal. In my experiance ratio of good to bad is closer to 50/50 but your experiance is obviously different.

Where we disagree is obviously in the role the OEM's and the owners should play when it comes to things like warranty. I think expecting the average owner to be able to diagnose and repair his or her own vehicle is unrealistic, and especially so when it comes to situations like your head gasket. The average owner just doesn't have the skills, the training or the tools let alone the inclination to do anything like that, nor in my opinion should they be expected to. As you point out this is 21 century.
 
It's also the reasponsibility of the OEM's to ensure that thier products meet a certain standard, and one way they do that is by offering a warranty and standing by it. As an aside I'd also suggest that unless the OEM gets feed back from the owners they won't realize that certain issues, such as poorly designed brake calipers are causing problems.

My bottom line here is that I don't think the customer should be the last link in the development chain nor do I think it's his or her reasponsiblity to repair problems that shouldn't have occured, especailly in a new vehicle had the OEM paid a bit more attention to the overall quality of thier products.

So we are in furious agreement:) The last point is a very salient one and a lesson I learned many years ago, NEVER on any account buy the first year model of anything. With faster times from design to inception unfortunately it's becoming quite common for the customer to become just that, the final piece in the R&D process. So for those interested it's worth considering when buying a new model, better to wait for the second year of production "at least". Give the design and manufacturing some time to mature.
Having said that with my Sunday car I had no choice as it was the "special" end of platform production performance version in limited numbers. The annoying thing was the head gasket issue was caused by the manufacturer deciding to utilise a head gasket they were already using in another application which was totally unsuitable for the later block. A pure cost saving exercise that came back to bite them on the ass as well as their customers. The recall was a disaster as I predicted it would be.
Ciao   

[lucky phil]

I'd just as soon end the discussion, it's pointless, basically two guys who have no control in the matter spouting off.

But to answer your question the issue seems to be very random, and seems to affect all years. Of course this being a forum we may being seeing a disproportionate number of posters that have encounterd the problem.

I've spoken to three dealers and none of them have had a single complaint concerning random shut offs. Two of the dealers have sold them since they were released, one has only been around since last January. In total they've probably sold 100=125 bikes.  Obviously all my info is anecdotal
and may not account for guys who are just living with the problem or trying to fix it themselves.

You know if I'd been born 30 years later I'd be very offended by that comment. But seeing I wasn't I'm not, lol.

Ciao

[zimmemr]

You know if I'd been born 30 years later I'd be very offended by that comment. But seeing I wasn't I'm not, lol.

Ciao

It was not my intent to offend, so I'm glad to see it didn't.

[zimmemr]

So we are in furious agreement:) The last point is a very salient one and a lesson I learned many years ago, NEVER on any account buy the first year model of anything. With faster times from design to inception unfortunately it's becoming quite common for the customer to become just that, the final piece in the R&D process. So for those interested it's worth considering when buying a new model, better to wait for the second year of production "at least". Give the design and manufacturing some time to mature.
Having said that with my Sunday car I had no choice as it was the "special" end of platform production performance version in limited numbers. The annoying thing was the head gasket issue was caused by the manufacturer deciding to utilise a head gasket they were already using in another application which was totally unsuitable for the later block. A pure cost saving exercise that came back to bite them on the ass as well as their customers. The recall was a disaster as I predicted it would be.
Ciao

I couldn't agree more, furious or otherwise.

[Warwick]

Took the interceptor out after two weeks in lockdown. Cut out and died 3 times even after cleaning the white grease of the petrol tank relay. Every time it has died it is at the beginning of the ride and sometimes when going through my unit's carpark before even hitting the road. Once warm its doesn't seem to occur. However, it has died after about 5 minutes when on a fast road. Its annoying and unsafe and shouldn't occur on a new bike with now just over 5000kms.
cheers and beers
Warwick

[lucky phil]

Took the interceptor out after two weeks of lockdown. Cut out and died 3 times even after cleaning the white grease of the petrol tank relay. Every time it has died it is at the beginning of the ride sometimes; when going through my units carpark. Once warm its doesn't seem to occur. However, it has died after about 5 minutes when on a fast road. Its annoy and unsafe and should occur on a new bike with now 5000kms.
cheers and beers
Warwick

So what does "cut out" actually mean? total power loss? Instruments go blank? or just Stalled? so electrical power still available but engine stops? Does it occur when stopped at the lights or intersection? OR when turning a tight corner or small round about? or when riding along and out of the blue the engine just dies or whole electrical system including the engine dies?
How much fuel in the tank at the time? I've had a Ducati that stalled every time I did a tight right turn, was loose spade connectors on the ignition switch. Does it restart straight away on the first attempt after "cut out"? You need to be more detailed and maybe we can find an answer.

Ciao 

[Warwick]

Hi guys
So what does "cut out" actually mean? total power loss?: Yes. The engine turns off and you need to turn the key back to off and then on again and start the bike as per normal.

Instruments go blank? or just Stalled? Yes. All electrics are lost and you need to re-start the bike as per normal. It's not a stall and the bike usually stops when you are actually revving the bike as you go up the gears. its not when coasting along. Note it usually occurs at the beginning of the ride when you are usually accelerating to go somewhere.
is this what happens to others?
kind regards
Warwick


so power still available but engine stops? Does it occur when stopped at the lights or intersection? OR when turning a tight corner or small round about? or when riding along and out of the blue the engine just dies or whole electrical system including the engine dies?
How much fuel in the tank at the time?

[Warwick]

Ps the bike has always had heaps of fuel

[lucky phil]

Hi guys
So what does "cut out" actually mean? total power loss?: Yes. The engine turns off and you need to turn the key back to off and then on again and start the bike as per normal.

Instruments go blank? or just Stalled? Yes. All electrics are lost and you need to re-start the bike as per normal. It's not a stall and the bike usually stops when you are actually revving the bike as you go up the gears. its not when coasting along. Note it usually occurs at the beginning of the ride when you are usually accelerating to go somewhere.
is this what happens to others?
kind regards
Warwick


so power still available but engine stops? Does it occur when stopped at the lights or intersection? OR when turning a tight corner or small round about? or when riding along and out of the blue the engine just dies or whole electrical system including the engine dies?
How much fuel in the tank at the time?

Ok cool. It's a total power loss, that's an important point. The low fuel level question was aimed at whether or not the fuel pump was involved which it wont be now we know it's a total power loss. Some things to consider.

Battery condition. Modern EFI systems simply shut down the bike if the battery voltage drops below a certain threshold usually around 10.5 volts. Battery terminal connections? battery condition? you may need to remove the battery and get it load tested. A voltage test doesn't always give the full answer on battery condition.

The main power relay...replace it with a Panasonic unit.

The fuses and fuse holder.....check all the fuses for cracks and security in the holder and the security of the wiring behind the fuse holder.

Ignition switch... I haven't had one apart but a starting point would be a "shake test" of the wiring to the ignition switch. Turn the ignition on and grab the wiring into the switch and give it a wiggle and see if there is any interruption to the power.

There's a few things to be looking at. The shake test on the ignition switch is the quick and simple first thing to do.

Ciao     

[Intybe]

is this what happens to others?

Yes, exactly. Three times in total. Had the bike 12 mths though low kms, 2020 model. Scary, esp when overtaking. Reminds me that I need to check relay box connectors and over-greasing and also the switch for loose wires, before next ride.

[lucky phil]

Yes, exactly. Three times in total. Had the bike 12 mths though low kms, 2020 model. Scary, esp when overtaking. Reminds me that I need to check relay box connectors and over-greasing and also the switch for loose wires, before next ride.

Yes that could be a "life changing" experience.

Ciao

[Warwick]

Cheers for the advice!! I will give your recommendations a try.
Cheers and beers
Warwick

[fireypete]

Gawd I hope its a simple fix..I get a bit paranoid reading these issues! Form 1990 until now I have not had a bike do anything that it shouldn't, and I'm hoping my Interceptor proves just as reliable!

[Dutch Rider]

The main power relay...replace it with a Panasonic unit.

Ciao   

Do you advise to change it, even if the engine is running fine ( in my case).
Maybe part number?

Thanks.

[Dutch Rider]

Maybe removing most of the grease from the relays will cure the intermitted cutting out problems?
After all, a relay works or is defective, no hard science imo.

[Dutch Rider]

How about these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324044265420?hash=item4b728b17cc:g:PMEAAOSwgQ1g7XNa

[fireypete]

They look different to the 5 pin supplied. Just give what you have a wipe over. The amount of grease on mine was way over the top. In Australia I got Narva brand relay. Just as a backup in the pocket.

[Dutch Rider]

They look different to the 5 pin supplied. Just give what you have a wipe over. The amount of grease on mine was way over the top. In Australia I got Narva brand relay. Just as a backup in the pocket.

You're right, forget about those.
How about these, they have 5 pins.
I'm a bit conserned about counterfeits on Ebay though...
https://www.ebay.nl/itm/123753251050?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Ad says "Made in China" but I saw other sites selling them, saying they are made in Japan...??

[Hoiho]

Just click on that orange Interceptor... https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/39317

[fireypete]

Narva part number 68070. If you look at sparesbox- google it up it's a company in Australia using the Narva parts number  they have a good photo of what the part looks like

[Dutch Rider]

Narva part number 68070. If you look at sparesbox- google it up it's a company in Australia using the Narva parts number  they have a good photo of what the part looks like

I'm in the Netherlands, shippingcosts form Australia are (to) high!!
Even from the UK, not beeing in the EU anymore, shipping is expensive and takes ages, I'm afraid...
For the time beeing, shippingcosts from China are almost zero...

[lucky phil]

Maybe removing most of the grease from the relays will cure the intermitted cutting out problems?
After all, a relay works or is defective, no hard science imo.

He's done that already. These are the same relays Guzzi's use. The best replacement for the original Bosch relays there were the Omron relays but I think they stopped making them. Guzzi people chenge out the Bosch relays as a matter of course. All relays are not created equal and in the case of the Guzzi one in particular carries a fair current which the std Bosch was right on the limit of carrying. The same replacement Omron has a significantly higher load capacity and is a more robust relay mechanically that's why my Guzzi was changed over. I believe the Panasonic is also a quality relay as well. Not sure about the std RE relays and their specifications. I'll need to research them if they have a manufacturer on them.
 

Ciao

[Dutch Rider]

How many of those NAIS 35 are there to change anyway...?
( To lazy to take the cover off... ).
I found a reliable source for them near me...but I have to order at least 7...

[NVDucati]

He's done that already.
......

Let's not forget that there has been at least one confirmed instance of the "receiver", "female" terminal on the motorcycle side of the equation getting pushed out of its' retainer clip. likely during the initial assembly process.
I have not seen this with my own eyes. But it is completely feasible that a terminal, on the back side of the panel is making contact with the terminal based solely of the bend in the wire.
    I think this is low on the scale of probability. Yet I can see a assembly line worker giving the relay a thump of the hand to drive it home.
Still, it could explain the randomness of occurrence and is easy to determine visually and / or a toothpick. 

[iblastoff]

Gawd I hope its a simple fix..I get a bit paranoid reading these issues! Form 1990 until now I have not had a bike do anything that it shouldn't, and I'm hoping my Interceptor proves just as reliable!

My bike died while going up a very slight hill. It took me forever to get it off the road safely with cars zooming by. Honestly the worst experience I’ve ever had with a brand new bike.

[lucky phil]

Let's not forget that there has been at least one confirmed instance of the "receiver", "female" terminal on the motorcycle side of the equation getting pushed out of its' retainer clip. likely during the initial assembly process.
I have not seen this with my own eyes. But it is completely feasible that a terminal, on the back side of the panel is making contact with the terminal based solely of the bend in the wire.
    I think this is low on the scale of probability. Yet I can see a assembly line worker giving the relay a thump of the hand to drive it home.
Still, it could explain the randomness of occurrence and is easy to determine visually and / or a toothpick.

Yes good point, thats a possibility as well. The issue with my Ducati 851 shutting down was the male/female blade terminals were actually connecting in the back of the switch but there was no actual interference to the fit of the male into the female. May have been faulty manufacture as I've never seen it since. Obviously easy to fix and the issue was resolved for no cost.
The ignition and kill switch are another point of interest here and Guzzi's have similar issues from time to time with the ignition switch needing to be disassembles and cleaned but they're now 15-21 years old and aren't new motorcycles so I don't know if it applies here unless there is a manufacturing batch defect or an assembly issue.   

Ciao