Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: 9fingers on August 12, 2018, 04:40:38 pm
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Hope this topic is appropriate for the forum, but I am wondering about (and excited by) Mahindra purchasing BSA and expecting to have bikes to market in 2019. I would think some competition in India, will take a chunk out of RE sales, there as well as abroad, and perhaps cause RE to up their game in various ways. Thoughts?
9fingers
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It all will depend on what type of motorcycles Mahindra is going to offer with its BSA logo on them.
If it is the typical crotch rocket there are already dozens of makers supplying good products. If it is a retro style back to the old days it will only appeal to the limited number of people (like us) who appreciate old styling.
Presently Mahindra is only importing tractors into the USA and they aren't making much of a dent in the tractor business.
Before selling motorcycles here they would need to set up hundreds of dealerships in the US and that takes time and money plus having something deliverable on hand.
That could take years so I won't be holding my breath.
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I am expecting to see 125cc Mahindra BSA motorcycles introduced in India and powered by a Chinese engine. The could call it a BSA Bantam. And maybe a BSA tractor version for their traditional customers. ;)
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whatever it turns out to be, it'll be a mahindra motorbike with a BSA label on it.
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Look what has happened with the AJS brand being applied to Chinese 125s, I suspect Mahindra will do something similar.
https://www.bikesure.co.uk/bikesureblog/2017/02/the-chinese-motorcycle-with-a-rich-british-heritage.html
A.
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Just as long as they don't call some crap with a Chinese 125cc in it a Gold Star......
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Just as long as they don't call some crap with a Chinese 125cc in it a Gold Star......
Agreed! I must be an optimist as I know they were planning on buying Norton but when BSA became available they jumped on it. I think they will more likely emulate Triumph or RE or something in-between. A slightly modernized Gold Star would be very cool.
9fingers
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Just as long as they don't call some crap with a Chinese 125cc in it a Gold Star......
I'm guessing they're going to do whatever they can in order to secure the best return on the TLA they've recently acquired the rights to.
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how about a uce 500 engine, pumped up to 40-45 hp and rebadged to bsa? :)
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how about a uce 500 engine, pumped up to 40-45 hp and rebadged to bsa? :)
In your dreams. What would the Indian market do with that? ::) I bet the rest-of-the-world market isn't even on their radar. ;)
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to paraphrase ol' willim shakespud " to dream, perchance to ride..."
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Doh! duplicate post, please ignore.
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Closer to my heart (being a Frannie B owner) is the rebranding of eastern small bore bikes as Francis Barnetts.
To be honest, they look pretty good, and I believe are based on Herald brand bikes.
The Merlin looks like a cobby 125cc trail bike, not a bad effort:
(http://www.francis-barnett.org/img/bikeg.jpg)
The Merlin and the Kestral are both based on 125cc 'Herald' brand bikes, but with a serious amount of rework within the uk. The price however is steep - I believe north of £4000 for a 125cc trail bike with an engine that is a reworking of the venerable Suzuki GN125 unit. The Donor Herald 125 bike by contrast sells for around £1700 here in the UK.
I just wish I could lay my hands on an old Suzuki TS100 or 125, for some cheap, smoky, green lane fun.
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I just wish I could lay my hands on an old Suzuki TS100 or 125, for some cheap, smoky, green lane fun.
There are tons of them here in Australia if you could be bothered importing one....
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Closer to my heart (being a Frannie B owner) is the rebranding of eastern small bore bikes as Francis Barnetts.
To be honest, they look pretty good, and I believe are based on Herald brand bikes.
The Merlin looks like a cobby 125cc trail bike, not a bad effort:
(http://www.francis-barnett.org/img/bikeg.jpg)
The Merlin and the Kestral are both based on 125cc 'Herald' brand bikes, but with a serious amount of rework within the uk. The price however is steep - I believe north of £4000 for a 125cc trail bike with an engine that is a reworking of the venerable Suzuki GN125 unit. The Donor Herald 125 bike by contrast sells for around £1700 here in the UK.
I just wish I could lay my hands on an old Suzuki TS100 or 125, for some cheap, smoky, green lane fun.
Blario, that is a Trials bike! These are available as new bikes now? Super cool! Thanks for posting the pic.
9fingers
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Some really interesting news, including Mahindra's purchase of the design house Pininfarina. I love my RE but if they do this right I might love me a BSA as well.
9fingers
http://zeenews.india.com/automobile/mahindras-new-bsa-bikes-to-get-500-750cc-engines_1952249.html
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Closer to my heart (being a Frannie B owner) is the rebranding of eastern small bore bikes as Francis Barnetts.
To be honest, they look pretty good, and I believe are based on Herald brand bikes.
The Merlin looks like a cobby 125cc trail bike, not a bad effort:
(http://www.francis-barnett.org/img/bikeg.jpg)
The Merlin and the Kestral are both based on 125cc 'Herald' brand bikes, but with a serious amount of rework within the uk. The price however is steep - I believe north of £4000 for a 125cc trail bike with an engine that is a reworking of the venerable Suzuki GN125 unit. The Donor Herald 125 bike by contrast sells for around £1700 here in the UK.
I just wish I could lay my hands on an old Suzuki TS100 or 125, for some cheap, smoky, green lane fun.
Cool bike 8) :) Can we spell Hodaka? ;)(http://)
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how about a uce 500 engine, pumped up to 40-45 hp and rebadged to bsa? :)
This already exists right here on this forum.
No BSA badge needed.
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I would like to see not only a classic British style bike, but with classic British style engine. :) Those chinese lumps I've seen so far just don't get it for me. :P
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They are hinting at a large, 500 to 750cc, single cylinder. With Pininfarina, the famous Italian design firm, doing the engineering/styling. I think this is going to be very interesting.
9fingers
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With increasing noise restrictions I'm not sure an exposed, traditional-style, single-cylinder, air-cooled engine will have long-term viability. There are mitigations but they're all expensive (eg, reducing manufacturing tolerances, changing to plain bearings, etc). And reduced displacement of course.
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They could throw a curve ball and make it water cooled but LOOK like it is air cooled. I would love to see another large single but with a counterbalancer added.
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Water cooling has multiple immediate advantages and like you said is a game changer:
1. water jacket dampens combustion chamber and valve train sounds
2. reduced temperature differentials enable tighter tolerances (eg, piston slap)
3. fewer, smaller and thicker cooling fins reduce ringing (that why UCEs have those black rubber thingys)
4. like BMW in 1980s you can choose among multiple vendors for an already-approved in-production motor that you just wrap some aluminum around to fit it into the frame with a gearbox; in fact just give the manufacturer your castings and have them assemble it; like maybe one year ready for market?
I doubt natural convection would work so would use variable-speed electric pump and maybe a fanless radiator. And I'd put some money into sensors, wiring/connectors and ECU firmware (I'm sure the UCE's Keihn is smarter than RE's use of it) to bring them into the 21st century.
RE's stylists have a magic touch connecting the past with today. Don't interfere.
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Honestly, why not just make a truly great bike and call it a "Mahindra". I promise not to think any worse of it. Fake badgery is fake.
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Honestly, why not just make a truly great bike and call it a "Mahindra". I promise not to think any worse of it. Fake badgery is fake.
This⬆
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" to bring them into the 21st century" That is exactly what I don't want. I want a 1950s or 1960s British bike with 1950s or 1960s technology and Honda quality.
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Now it's gone and happened to Moto Morini as well. Bought by the Chinese that is. At least (in my mind) they'll still be Morini because it was a takeover of an extant company like RE, Triumph, SWM and Benelli. Not quite as unpalatable as reborn BSA, Brough, Matchless, Francis Barnett and the rest that are merely a motorbike with someone else's brand attached. Continuity is they key for me. Brand dilution is quite something else and is up to buyers, I suppose.