[Keef Sparrow]

I used to feel the same way you do about the HD boys.  Full disclosure, I've never even ridden Harley.  I have however ridden with several guys on their baggers, and felt fully accepted on my Conti GT.  I have come to the conclusion that (in the US at least) there are just so many HD riders compared to anyone else, that there is a greater chance of the particular rider not noticing you, having clutch in, or  just being a douche.  I have passed many other types of bikes and not gotten a wave or nod. I have also passed countless Harley guys that do give a wave or nod.  I don't take it personal anymore.

I live in the UK and 2 wheel culture is different here compared to the USA. I have ridden (but not owned) a Sportster and loved it, but even if I could afford to buy one I know that it would be stolen straight away living in London. 

[Toontje]

Just imagine that all the cars on that car park all had loud pipes as well. If we all ride with loud pipes, why shouldn't they?

[zimmemr]

Just for contrast I ride a lot with a couple of Harley guys. All were former pro level racers in a variety of disciplines from Outlaw Sprint cars to a National Level Supercross. One is service manager at a large HD shop, one has an independent repair shop, he has logged just shy of one million documented miles btw. None of them have aftermarket pipes on their bikes. Nor do they wear any sort of "costume" when they ride, other than what any of us would wear riding our Interceptors or whatever.

For the record the guy that runs the dealership service department tells me his largest money maker is aftermarket pipe's, low restriction air inlets, and "tuners." Sound familiar? He's as perplexed and dismayed by the "typical" HD owner as the rest of us. 

[NVDucati]

I live in the UK and 2 wheel culture is different here compared to the USA. I have ridden (but not owned) a Sportster and loved it, but even if I could afford to buy one I know that it would be stolen straight away living in London. 

Just a couple of years ago I worked on a project involving property theft in the UK. The stats for motorcycle / scooters were pretty shocking. And very organized. One element was thieves riding double in the morning traffic and following their targets to work. The police say that they get an order for parts for a particular brand / model so they swoop in and steel a donor bike.

[mwmosser]

In the area of SW PA where I grew up, which is essentially the foothills of the Appalachians, bikes with loud pipes could be heard for miles, owing as much to the topography as anything. The hills funneled the sound in some very peculiar ways. It was not just HDs either - any high-revving inline four could also be heard just as distinctly. I remember being able to follow my brother's route on his GSX-R almost as if I were in a helicopter, at least for five or so miles.

[LeeInMplsMN]

I used to feel the same way you do about the HD boys.  Full disclosure, I've never even ridden Harley.  I have however ridden with several guys on their baggers, and felt fully accepted on my Conti GT.  I have come to the conclusion that (in the US at least) there are just so many HD riders compared to anyone else, that there is a greater chance of the particular rider not noticing you, having clutch in, or  just being a douche.  I have passed many other types of bikes and not gotten a wave or nod. I have also passed countless Harley guys that do give a wave or nod.  I don't take it personal anymore.

I nod or "two fingers down" to everyone on two wheels including scooter, Groms and even bicyclist.   If you do it on 2 wheels, you are a brother.   Here in Minnesota Helmets are optional.  Typically, HD riders don't wear a helmet.    I noticed that helmetless riders wearing tank tops are the most likely not to acknowledge a wave or a nod.  I wear full gear and a full helmet (they can see you coming.)
 They don't outnumber riders here.  Many sport bikes and dual purpose bikes and those folks all acknowledge a nod or two fingers down.    While loud exhaust isn't  something I like any more than boom boxes or overmodulation that makes the windows quiver,  I don't mind if a**holes don't include me in their club. 

[Jack Straw]

The individual HD guys I come into contact with are usually quite nice and are often interested in my RE.  Unfortunately I don't know any Harley riders on a personal level that would make it easy to ask questions like the following;

1. Do you realize how annoying really loud pipes are?
2. At your age do you really like or need to make a spectacle of yourself?
3. What is the real attraction to riding in large groups?
4. Is displaying "attitude" important to you?

The previous comment about HD riders being on another planet seems very apt.

Despite being puzzled and put off by HD culture I really admire some of the bikes, particularly the older XLCH models.  I could see myself owning one albeit with real mufflers.

[viczena]

The individual RE guys I come into contact with are usually quite nice and are often interested in my HD.  Unfortunately I don't know any Enfield riders on a personal level that would make it easy to ask questions like the following;

1. Do you realize how annoying really small bikes are?
2. At your age do you really like or need to make a fool of yourself?
3. What is the real attraction to riding an underpowered indian bike?
4. Is displaying "attitude" important to you?

[zimmemr]

The individual HD guys I come into contact with are usually quite nice and are often interested in my RE.  Unfortunately I don't know any Harley riders on a personal level that would make it easy to ask questions like the following;

1. Do you realize how annoying really loud pipes are?
2. At your age do you really like or need to make a spectacle of yourself?
3. What is the real attraction to riding in large groups?
4. Is displaying "attitude" important to you?

The previous comment about HD riders being on another planet seems very apt.

Despite being puzzled and put off by HD culture I really admire some of the bikes, particularly the older XLCH models.  I could see myself owning one albeit with real mufflers.

I think the issue here is that while there are plenty of motorcycle enthusiasts that enjoy riding Harley's, like the guys I know. There are just as many, probably more that see them as a "lifestyle accessory" that allows them to spend a couple of hours a week pretending to be someone they aren't. Since it's largely pretense they don't care how much they offend anyone because once they take off their costume they fade right back in to whatever they are in real life, and since riding probably isn't a long term thing for them they couldn't care less about the damage they do.

I'd also suggest that some percentage of the guys that gravitate towards HD's, a much greater percentage in fact than you'd find riding other brands are just going to be anti social A-holes, because they can be, and see riding an HD as a jingoistic way of reminding us that they're "tough guys."

Over the years HD has built some outstanding bikes, pre 70 Sportsters were among the best motorcycles you could buy, and anyone that thinks HD can't build a fast motorcycle when it wants to has never ridden an XR750. In dirt track or road race trim they were an outstandingly good motorcycle.  Unfortunately the management at HD figured they'd get rich catering to a segment of the market that the other OEM's wanted little part of and were fairly successful at it for a number of years, and worse forced many of the other manufacturers to waste valuable resources on the cruiser market, which has no all but dried up.

[viczena]

The HD bikers i know have their Harley to ride. Long distances. Often more than 20.000km per year. Impossible with indian garbage. Not the kind of people who pretend they are still in the 60s, when english cycles were great. Rockers and leather-boys on their cafe racers, not just old farts on their cheap indian wannabee bikes..

[NVDucati]

Why are biplanes so irresistible?

[viczena]

Just imagine that all the cars on that car park all had loud pipes as well. If we all ride with loud pipes, why shouldn't they?

The only answer to this kind of question are electric cars and electric bikes. And everything else made illegal.

[Toontje]

The only answer to this kind of question are electric cars and electric bikes. And everything else made illegal.

Not true. There is a grey in between the black (all loud) and white (all electric) and that is that everybody behaves...

[viczena]

For the green politians there is no compromise. No gray. They know emperor Cesar "divide and conquer".

So why 95 dB for bikes? What if 10 bikes meet? So 80 dB would be better. And when bikes only have 80 dB, why not cars with 70dB? If you cannot build bikes with 70dB, then electric is the only way to go.

This or a never ending lockdown with meeting restrictions. Or both.
For the sake of a better world.

And people like you are enabling them.

[Karl Fenn]

Well with this lockdown and somewhat draconian fines, they have established how easy people are to manipulate, probably an experiment for things destined to come in the future, a trial run. I point the finger at the new world order.