[Gearset807]

I recently checked the oil level on my engine according to the procedure used in the owners manual and according to the directions the oil level is too low. The owners manual says to put the bike on the center stand, start the engine and let it warm up a little, and then stop the engine and wait a couple minutes for the oil to drain back down. According to the owners manual the level of the oil should be at the max level in the sight glass.
The owners manual also emphasized not to check the engine oil level when it’s cold.

I talked to the dealer where I purchased the bike and they told me the owners manual is incorrect. If you fill and check the oil using the directions in the manual you will overfill the engine oil.

The dealer said that I should just raise the bike to the level position, not putting it on the center stand, and check the oil level at that point. The oil should just be just below the max line in the sight glass. The dealer also said that they check the oil level when the engine is cold.

Is this common knowledge? I’m one of those stupid people that actually read the owners manual.

I have attached a picture of the oil level in the side glass with the bike on it center stand.

[Dexter]

Your dealer is somewhat correct. How they would expect you to hold the bike level though, not on the centre stand, while getting down on the floor to look into the sight glass, escapes me! Unless you always have a helper on hand, but if you do that while away from home and ask a stranger, expect some strange looks from the person.

There is nothing wrong with having the bike on the centre stand to check the oil level - period.

Like other misinformation in the manual, - eg. the break in speeds - the manual must have been written by a bunch of monkeys (no slight intended to any monkeys reading this). Always check the oil level cold, or after sitting for quite some time, as running it will only disperse the oil throughout the engine, where it will take time to drain down again. More time than the average person wants to wait. The only time you need to run the engine to check the level, is after an oil and filter change, as the filter will need to fill with its normal level of residual oil and you will likely need to top the oil up after running. Wait at least 20 - 30 minutes for a fairly complete drain down.

Oil does expand as it heats, which may make the level appear slightly higher after running, but this is negligible to the needs of setting to a correct level.

I and others here, have reported that the oil level appeared too high from the factory, as the level was not visible at all in the sight glass. Tipping the bike slightly to the left side though, with the wife doing the tipping, had the level appear not far off of vertical, so it was slightly overfilled. Again, not a problem and only would be if the level was so high that the crankshaft was hitting the oil in the sump.

On, or close to, the max level is fine. It isn't an exact millilitre measurement requirement.

[Dexter]

Just saw your posted pic, after I had spent several minutes typing my reply.

Yes, you need to top up your oil, although at the minimum line, the engine is still not in danger of damage.

I must say, that is very clear looking oil. Must be a new change, but even so, it almost looks like water! What brand is it?

[Gearset807]

I just got the bike back from it’s 300 mile service. So the oil is fresh. According to the dealer my oil level is fine that is what is puzzling me. The picture that I have is on the center stand. The dealer said checking it on the center stand is incorrect. Having it on the bottom mark while on the center stand means that the oil is OK, according to the dealer.

According to my receipt they used Shell 4T Synthetic oil. 15 W 50.

Just saw your posted pic, after I had spent several minutes typing my reply.

Yes, you need to top up your oil, although at the minimum line, the engine is still not in danger of damage.

I must say, that is very clear looking oil. Must be a new change, but even so, it almost looks like water! What brand is it?

[Dexter]

I just got the bike back from it’s 300 mile service. So the oil is fresh. According to the dealer my oil level is fine that is what is puzzling me. The picture that I have is on the center stand. The dealer said checking it on the center stand is incorrect. Having it on the bottom mark while on the center stand means that the oil is OK, according to the dealer.

According to my receipt they used Shell 4T Synthetic oil. 15 W 50.

I have never heard, in my life long experience with motorcycles, that the centre stand should not be used to check oil level. 

Why would a manufacturer design a bike with that crazy way to check their machine's oil levels? If anything, it would cause many owners not to be able to, or to even bother with checking the level regularly, with such a stupid rule. I would not be dealing with that dealer for something as simple as an oil change! Learn to do it yourself. All the tools you need are in the bike tool kit, although a few better quality tools would be a good idea.

RE even has online tutorials that can guide you in this easy job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK3BNgcaM1g&list=PLT1BEDU54E1SKBG28gF49AclawHddstLm&index=20

Ignore the part about starting the engine before draining, unless you are doing it in the dead of winter, as warmer oil will drain faster, but at summer temperatures, just drain the engine cold, which eliminates the need for a drain down time.

You need to add some oil, if that level (on the centre stand) remains as depicted in your picture. Go to any auto parts store that sells that brand and buy yourself a gallon. It will last for two or three more oil changes.

Maybe your dealer has a service rep who just fills out the orders and takes your money after. Did he actually look at that level? Maybe he just relied on the mechanic knowing what he is doing, because obviously, someone doesn't. 

[Dexter]

As I mentioned earlier, I had the wife tip the bike slightly left while I looked to check at how high my factory oil fill actually was and the bike was not on any stand. The oil level did not drop at all sitting on its wheels. Just further proof that this dealer's thoughts on the centre stand changing the level is bullshit.

The title of this thread should be, "Another incompetent RE dealer".

[Gearset807]

It is interesting because I did talk to the service manager at this Royal Enfield dealership in great detail about this.

He explained to me In great detail that when the motorcycle is on it’s center stand it does raise the rear end of the bike. That means that the site glass is higher than if it is sitting on the ground not on the center stand.

Understand, I’m not trying to argue with you I’m just explaining in detail what he said. So it sounds like what he saying is based on experience or he’s just making it up.

Tomorrow I will see if I can get someone to help me hold the bike level and verify his claim. But, according to what you’ve told me you’ve already done this?

But, I still find it beyond me that Royal Enfield would not only have it wrong in the owners manual but they would also produce a video and publish it without anyone contacting them about the problem it will cause if they fill the oil using the method that they depict.

As I mentioned earlier, I had the wife tip the bike slightly left while I looked to check at how high my factory oil fill actually was and the bike was not on any stand. The oil level did not drop at all sitting on its wheels. Just further proof that this dealer's thoughts on the centre stand changing the level is bullshit.

The title of this thread should be, "Another incompetent RE dealer".

[Dexter]

The only thing wrong about the manual (and the video) is it telling you to run the engine first before checking the level. There is no need to do that - unless - as I said previously, you are in the process of changing the oil and filter.

And yes, the RE video also does not tell you to run the engine after the oil/filter change, but that is an oversight on their part that should have been mentioned. I suppose that since the video instructs you to put in an exact amount of oil, RE considers the factory spec on what that should be with a normal oil drain and not an engine teardown, as all that it will need. This is rarely the case.

Maybe that video is where the tech at your shop learned how to change the oil and hence, always has bikes leaving the shop a bit low. 

I was going to ask you to check the level both on the stand and off, to see for yourself that the "service manager", using that term loosely here, is full of malarky on this issue.

Let's look at the tires  .  .  .  hmmm  .  .  we have a 17" rear tire and a 19" front tire! Wouldn't the front end be sitting higher, thus tilting the oil level the other way, compared to sitting on the centre stand? Stupid argument on both counts.

Re your service done at this dealer, I'm curious to know if they actually did the required valve clearance inspection too, but I shudder to think of how they might have screwed  that up!

[SteveThackery]

I share our joint puzzlement.  What possible point is there in starting and running the engine, and then stopping it, before checking the oil level?  All it does is push the oil all round the engine so you have to wait for it to drain down again.

With every other vehicle I've owned - on two or four wheels - the correct procedure is to measure the oil level when the vehicle has been standing unused.  That way the oil has had plenty of time to drain back.  It's the only way to get a consistent reading.

The Meteor is an astonishing piece of design and engineering, but I think the handbook was written by numpties.

[tooseevee]

I just got the bike back from it’s 300 mile service. The dealer said checking it on the center stand is incorrect.

           That's just Silly. Bike oil level all over the world is being checked on center stands as we speak. I don't want to badmouth the dealer so I'll just say it's silly

[oldcolin]

Hi

Not sure if it was my 2003 Fazer or my 2001 XJ600, but one of those it said to take it off the stand to measure.  But I found with that it seemed to be no difference on or off the stand.  I did get my wife to lean on the rear whilst I put chock under to front wheel to make them level, but this doesn't allow for the compression of the rear suspension.

I have never had a problem with testing it on the centre stand.

Colin

[Gearset807]

Well, I did compare the two. When I put the bike on the center stand the oil level is at the bottom mark. When I hold the bike level, off of the center stand, the oil is at the top mark.

[oldcolin]

One of my Yamaha bike manuals did say to take it off the stand.  This makes it level and takes up some drop in the rear suspension.  My wife held the bike upright while I checked it.

[michiel]

Where has the good old oil dipstick gone?

[oldcolin]

I agree with that last comment

[20MarkIII]

Where has the good old oil dipstick gone?

+2. I have a cheap small mirror on a telescoping handle that I use to check the oil on my '99 Vulcan Drifter 1500. Only a few bucks from Harbor Freight. That old bike has no center stand. I use the center stand to check the RE's oil level but in the garage where the floor is reasonably level.
Shop rates in my area are $130.00 an hour. A lot of money to pay for incompetence and misinformation. The manual for the Meteor states oil capacity is 2L. Mine is full at 1.9L. I check it where I change it. Mission accomplished.

[michiel]

My German manual says total oil quantity 2.2 litres. Refill quantity for oil change 1.7 litres.
I recently changed the oil without a filter. The filter was new. I changed the oil because I didn't trust the workshop. I want the engine to run on 15W-50 semi-synthetic.
I collected the drained oil and measured it. it was exactly 2 litres. So I put that amount back in.
What good is such a modern oil eye if it makes checking the oil level even more complicated ?

[Red Leader]

Hi Folks,
I made a dipstick out of wood for my MG as the one on the bike is hard to read; black plastic......
I used 2 bits of wooden dowel & cable tied them in the shape of a cross like a vampire hunter; not very elegant but it works a treat!

I'll use it on my Classic 350 as I find the looking glass method a pain. I'm assuming the oil filler will allow me to do this but haven't bothered checking...

Bike still riding fine & not using much oil...
Cheers
RL

[michiel]

You can't. The clutch basket is directly under the filler hole.

[Dexter]

I was going to ask you to check the level both on the stand and off, to see for yourself that the "service manager", using that term loosely here, is full of malarky on this issue.

It would seem that Gearset's observation of his varying oil levels, on or off the stand, might have me eating my previous words as to the staff at his dealership, but I think not.

Here's what I imagine has happened at this dealership. Unlike most owners, who do their own oil changes on the floor with the bike on the stand, shops have lifts, some of which use a chock on the front wheel to support the bike, thus not needing to put the bike on the centre stand. This would be the only way that I can envision the tech thinking he had the oil at the proper level.

Now, I have a few misgivings about some of the information, or lack of it, contained in the owner's manual, the break in speeds being the biggest one, but there is no way that RE would have included how to do an oil change improperly in their manual, or the video instructions they have online. That could lead to serious warranty problems with their engines.

Except for Colin's one off in another bike's manual, which apparently made no difference either way anyway, I have never heard in all my years that off the stand is how one checks the oil level.

IMHO, Gearset still needs to top up that oil to the max line, on the centre stand and learn to do his own oil changes from here on in. If RE has a way to contact direct technical assistance, or if there is another RE dealer he could phone about this, I'd advise getting a second opinion from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

[hotrob]

I have never heard in all my years that off the stand is how one checks the oil level.

Most of the bikes that I've owned over the years have said hold the bike upright on level ground.  But that's because most of them only had a sidestand and not a centre stand! 

[Dexter]

Most of the bikes that I've owned over the years have said hold the bike upright on level ground.  But that's because most of them only had a sidestand and not a centre stand! 

Having never owned a bike without a centre stand, that aspect of the oil change job never occurred to me! 

[Gearset807]

I questioned the service manager in great detail about his checking the oil on the center stand. He told me that they used to do it that way but they had issues with the engine because the oil was overfilled. So that’s why they check it this way now.

Either what he is saying is the truth or I really need to stay away from this dealer  because they are making up stories to prove their point.

It would seem that Gearset's observation of his varying oil levels, on or off the stand, might have me eating my previous words as to the staff at his dealership, but I think not.

Here's what I imagine has happened at this dealership. Unlike most owners, who do their own oil changes on the floor with the bike on the stand, shops have lifts, some of which use a chock on the front wheel to support the bike, thus not needing to put the bike on the centre stand. This would be the only way that I can envision the tech thinking he had the oil at the proper level.

Now, I have a few misgivings about some of the information, or lack of it, contained in the owner's manual, the break in speeds being the biggest one, but there is no way that RE would have included how to do an oil change improperly in their manual, or the video instructions they have online. That could lead to serious warranty problems with their engines.

Except for Colin's one off in another bike's manual, which apparently made no difference either way anyway, I have never heard in all my years that off the stand is how one checks the oil level.

IMHO, Gearset still needs to top up that oil to the max line, on the centre stand and learn to do his own oil changes from here on in. If RE has a way to contact direct technical assistance, or if there is another RE dealer he could phone about this, I'd advise getting a second opinion from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

[Dexter]

I questioned the service manager in great detail about his checking the oil on the center stand. He told me that they used to do it that way but they had issues with the engine because the oil was overfilled. So that’s why they check it this way now.

Either what he is saying is the truth or I really need to stay away from this dealer  because they are making up stories to prove their point.

BINGO! Along with your other thread about the new oil leak at the strainer, this guy is telling stories that any experienced mechanic would know as BS.

My engine oil was slightly overfilled right from the factory and it caused no problem whatsoever. Worst case scenario is he is telling you porkies because they can save money on a bit of oil with every oil change they do!

Did he offer to explain what issues they had from filling on the centre stand? I'd love to hear those too. Hopefully you have another dealer option not too far away, as you should be running away from that place fast.

[michiel]

I was previously of the opinion that this oil eye was introduced to make it easier to check the oil level.
But when I read; don't check with the engine cold, don't check on the main stand, 15 seconds increased idle speed, then 15 seconds normal idle speed, then wait 2 minutes .......................
I could puke. How much easier and clearer was the oil dipstick.

[tooseevee]

I was previously of the opinion that this oil eye was introduced to make it easier to check the oil level.
But when I read; don't check with the engine cold, don't check on the main stand, 15 seconds increased idle speed, then 15 seconds normal idle speed, then wait 2 minutes .......................
I could puke. How much easier and clearer was the oil dipstick.

         I know. It kinda makes you nuts, doesn't it?? 

         BUT it's nothing new. There were thousands of words written back in the days of the AVLs. It's all back in the dusty, cobweby stacks in the archives if anybody cares.

        It had to be figured out the best, accurate way to check the oil with the cute, little hash-marked dipstick because the AVL has a separate oil tank at the same level as the crankcase with drain holes between.

        You could check your oil first thing in the morning & find NO oil on the stick. So some would then bring the oil level up, start the engine up, head off down the road & soon the engine would puke the excess oil out all over the road or all over the air filter until the oil was at a more correct level. By this time the engine had probably been choked to death

         The story could go on explaining, but I ain't gonna do it here.

          My only point is that it's nothing new with the sight glass Enfields. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[gilburton]

I shall continue to check on the centre stand as I have always done in my near 60 yrs of bikes.
Not long after i bought the classic I was at my brothers house and he was looking at it and remarked that the oil was low.
I had only just bought it so I was a bit worried but I had parked on the sidestand. Putting it on the centre stand immediately broght the oil up on the sight glass.
I've had 2 bikes with no centre stands as standard so immediately fitted them as bikes with no centre stand are a pain lol
However you measure it as long as it's between the marks it will be fine as it's an understressed bike ( it is how I ride it lol) not some screaming multi cylinder machine.

[michiel]

         I know. It kinda makes you nuts, doesn't it?? 

         BUT it's nothing new. There were thousands of words written back in the days of the AVLs. It's all back in the dusty, cobweby stacks in the archives if anybody cares.

        It had to be figured out the best, accurate way to check the oil with the cute, little hash-marked dipstick because the AVL has a separate oil tank at the same level as the crankcase with drain holes between.

        You could check your oil first thing in the morning & find NO oil on the stick. So some would then bring the oil level up, start the engine up, head off down the road & soon the engine would puke the excess oil out all over the road or all over the air filter until the oil was at a more correct level. By this time the engine had probably been choked to death

         The story could go on explaining, but I ain't gonna do it here.

          My only point is that it's nothing new with the sight glass Enfields. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

I rode a pre unit Bullet for almost 20 years.
This and the Electra (AVL) both have dry sump lubrication with a separate oil tank. (The method of measuring the oil level was the same. It was actually quite simple. After refuelling or coming home, remove the helmet, take off the jacket (or pay for the petrol) and then check the oil level with the dipstick.
But the Meteor and the Classic have wet sump lubrication. The oil is in the engine casing at the bottom. It shouldn't be too difficult to install a slightly larger oil reservoir that simply indicates the correct oil level, or a dipstick.

[Gearset807]

OK, so I called the only other Royal Enfield dealer in my area And they too check the oil level while holding the bike vertical and not on the center stand. Both the owners manual and the YouTube videos from Royal Enfield say to check it on the center stand and you get two very different readings between putting it on the center stand and just holding it vertical.

I don’t remember exactly what problems the dealer said they encountered when they filled the oil using the center stand method, but it was something in the lines that it would overfill the oil and when they ran the engine oil would come out of either I think the air cleaner or some type of overflow when the engine was running.

I guess what I would really like to know is how do you check the oil level on your bike, on the center stand or holding it vertical. If you check it on the center stand and make sure that the oil is near the top mark have you had any problems with the oil being overfilled?

[michiel]

I checked the oil level today. Exactly as it says in the owners manual. On the main stand and all that frippery with the revs. With the engine warm.
The level was at maximum.
I have not noticed any signs of overfilling so far.
Nothing is coming out anywhere. Everything dry. No abnormalities.

[SteveThackery]

... and all that frippery with the revs. With the engine warm.

That's what I don't understand.  The standard method for engines is to measure the level when the engine has been standing for long enough for all the oil to drain down, which can take ages.  Fully drained down is the only condition that can be repeated reliably.  Any other condition will involve some of the oil (an unknown amount) lingering up in the engine.

So the ideal time to measure the oil is first thing in the morning, before you've started the engine.

HOWEVER, I can see when you might use the method in the handbook: when you have just changed the oil.  Then there might be an argument for running the engine briefly to get the oil into all the usual places, then allowing it to drain down, before fine-tuning the level.  But you'd only do that once, though - after that, you'd check it when cold, just before the first start-up of the day.

Certainly that's how I'll be doing mine.

[Dexter]

I guess what I would really like to know is how do you check the oil level on your bike, on the center stand or holding it vertical. If you check it on the center stand and make sure that the oil is near the top mark have you had any problems with the oil being overfilled?

Not a problem at all checked on the centre stand.

Follow what Steve says in the post before this one, which I already stated previously and you won't go wrong.

Are you able to do your own oil change, to know it is done right AND save yourself some money? Also, let us know what happens regarding that strainer oil leak you have posted about in another thread.

[Dexter]

OK, I just phoned the Vancouver Royal Enfield dealer. This is a large dealership that sells other brands and LOTS of RE's. I had the service rep check with a technician how they check the oil level. Centre stand was the answer.

I think this debate should be over and Gearset should avoid oil changes at either of his two area dealers, or buy a jug of the same oil locally and top it off himself, once they do their half ass job.

[Zajeb]

I didn't want to start a new thread so I'm adding a bit to this one.
My engine oil while on the center stand is slightly above max ( I've done the oil change myself, and its not gonna be driven for at least 2 months now).
My question is, what is the level of oil while the engine is running and while on center stand? it seems to drop down below the glass ( almost cant see it but you can see movement)?

I did the change according to the video tutorials, while on the center stand, to max level, and I know I did fill a bit more (1.8l went in).

[Leofric]

Maybe RE say run the engine ,I think they say a fairly short while and let it stand a short while, because the level is meant to be checked in the sight glass when there is still some oil sitting around the engine i.e. not when the bike has been standing and all the oil has drained down.
Other bikes I have had have specified a similar procedure.
ps my Kawasaki VN900 is a pain to check because it doesn't have a centre stand and involves sitting on the bike and using a telescopic mirror !

[Leofric]

OK, I just phoned the Vancouver Royal Enfield dealer. This is a large dealership that sells other brands and LOTS of RE's. I had the service rep check with a technician how they check the oil level. Centre stand was the answer.

I think this debate should be over and Gearset should avoid oil changes at either of his two area dealers, or buy a jug of the same oil locally and top it off himself, once they do their half ass job.

Not yet 

[Dexter]

My question is, what is the level of oil while the engine is running and while on center stand?

That is irrelevant.

[Leofric]

I have looked at manuals for some of my previous bikes to see what they specify for checking oil level. Haynes workshop manual unless stated otherwise.
Triumph 900 triple Legend TT. bike on centre stand or hold bike upright, Check oil level when engine cold. If engine hot,allow to cool down for 10 minutes.
Suzuki GSF1200 bandit.take bike on a short run to reach normal operating temperature.stop engine.hold bike upright or put on centre stand.allow to stand undisturbed for a few minutes to allow oil to stabilise.
Triumph bonneville t100 carb model.idle engine for 5 minutes.stop engine and allow to stand for 3 minutes to allow oil to settle. hold bike upright on level surface.
Honda cbf1000fac.idle engine for 3 to 5 minutes.stop engine .support bike on level ground or on centre stand.allow to stand for 2 to 3 minutes to allow oil to stabilise.
Honda cb650f. put bike on level ground.start engine and let it idle for 3 to 5 minutes.stop engine and allow oil to stabilise for 2 to 3 minutes.support bike by having an assistant hold it.
Kawasaki vn900 classic. Kawasaki owner's manual says if engine has just been used wait several minutes for oil to drain down.with bike level ,oil should be between upper and lower level lines.

That's it -take your pick  they don't seem to distinguish between bike on centre stand or on level ground though.

[TomD]

The manual for my VStar specifies that the bike has to be vertical to check the oil through the sight glass. 2009 Yammie VStar 650's have no centerstand. I have to roll it into my bike stand and strap it up to check the oil. I guess I could stack up some scraps of wood under the sidestand, but with my luck it would fall over.

[60muzz]

I'm with Michiel, reply #16. Recent oil change, drained the lot, put 1.7 liters back in and at the bottom level mark.
Bike on center stand, run, then left for the oil to settle as per RE Manual.. Measured what came out, 2 liters,
so added another 300ml and level at top mark.
What is all the discussion about the factory over filling to the top mark? Do they really want the engines damaged
and then have to fix under warranty? Rather have a touch more than not enough, it aids cooling.
What came out goes back in as far as I am concerned.
2.2L dry fill, 1.7l replace as per manual, cannot work that out, so at 2.0 l, I am in the middle.
Used Penrite 4ST 15w-50 full synthetic, engine sounds quieter than before, the acceleration clatter not as noticeable,
settles nicely when warmed up properly. 

[Crabsapper]

Wow.

[3oro]

Do not worry. Fill to the top line, so as much as it fits

[Reg Idler]

The sight glass or dipstick hardly ever agrees with the oil capacity specified in the owner's manual. That's been my experience, anyway. My two previous bikes, neither of which had a center stand, took a bit more oil than the owner's or factory service manuals specified if I wanted the oil level at the full mark in the sight glass. My Classic 350 takes about 0.2 liter more than the owner's manual says. None of the cars I've owned (I've been driving since 1974) had a dipstick that exactly agreed with the oil capacity stated in the owner's manual.

Try this. Change the oil in your Classic or Meteor with the motorcycle on the center stand, following RE's instructions. Add oil until the level is at the upper mark with the engine slightly warm but not at full operating temperature. Take the bike off the center stand, hold it upright, and check the level in the sight glass. It will be higher than when the bike was on the center stand. The oil level will probably be up at the top of the sight glass. Now you know what Full looks like with and without the center stand. Learn what Full looks like with the engine stone cold, lukewarm, and smoking hot.

And try this to make holding your bike upright easier. Put a hunk of 2-by-6 under the side stand. Go around to the right side of the bike. Kneel next to the bike with your right knee on the floor, your left knee braced against the passenger-peg mount, and your left hand on the rider's seat. Push down on the rider's foot peg with your right hand. With the foot of the center stand already an inch and a half off the floor, you won't have to push down on the foot peg very hard to stand the bike up. Your left knee and left hand provide support on the right side of the motorcycle. With a little practice, you'll have no trouble balancing your 430-pound Classic. Lean your head forward and down to look at the sight glass. It's a little awkward, but really not difficult.

Or use a mechanic's inspection mirror so that you can sit on the bike and see the oil level without using the center stand. You should have at least one good inspection mirror anyway.

Stay safe.

[Leofric]

The manual for my VStar specifies that the bike has to be vertical to check the oil through the sight glass. 2009 Yammie VStar 650's have no centerstand. I have to roll it into my bike stand and strap it up to check the oil. I guess I could stack up some scraps of wood under the sidestand, but with my luck it would fall over.

All bikes have to be vertical to check the oil level !

[Leofric]

 'I think this debate should be over'
- maybe it is time now Dexter.

[olhogrider]

You guys crack me up! Something as simple as checking the oil level can be debated like it's the meaning of life! I'll just throw out some more useless information. On Harleys some models were supposed to be checked while on the side stand while others were supposed to be straight up. That's not an easy thing to do when you don't have a center stand.

Also, for some real fun look into the magical disappearing and reappearing oil in the RE 500. There are undrainable cavities cast into the crankcase. Some years had as many as three drain plugs while others had only one. If you drained the oil some of it stayed behind to contaminate the fresh oil but didn't show on the sight glass. So you keep putting oil in until it looks right and then it's overfilled. But you don't know it until after you start the motor.

[tooseevee]

That's what I don't understand.  The standard method for engines is to measure the level when the engine has been standing for long enough for all the oil to drain down, which can take ages. 

So the ideal time to measure the oil is first thing in the morning, before you've started the engine.

        If I did that with my AVL, it would start blowing just what I added out the crankcase breather hose as soon as it was warmed up out on the road. It would blow oil out until it was back down to the correct level. We all learned this very early on when the AVL came out.

        Mine was happiest with from 1/2 to 7/8 on the dipstick. Hardly ever anything in my catch can which was an empty DryGas bottle painted black & tucked in front of the rear mud guard.

        Be aware, I'm not comparing the two engines. Just sayin' that we DID (& do) have to run the AVL a couple minutes after sitting overnight, then shut it down a couple minutes, THEN check the dipstick (yes, they have a dipstick). Anything from 1/2 or up a little & it was happy. This was all hashed over ad nauseu here back in the day when the AVL section was full all the time. Now it's a wasteland 

      Never went through any of this hand-wringing with panheads or shovelheads. Just look in the oil tank; you could plainly see the oil level in the oil tank.

       

[tooseevee]

All bikes have to be vertical to check the oil level !

        Absolutely +1 Makes perfect common sense to check the liquid level of ANYthing. Tipped one way or the other makes no sense at all.

[Veloman]

Went and checked mine last night after wading through this topic.  Just to add to the debate (without daring to go off topic and ask what's the best make of oil! I get a different level indication when off the centre stand and also when the bike is at very slightly differences from vertical.
If the manufacturer has a weird procedure for measuring oil level for reasons known only to the manufacturer perhaps he sited(pun intended) the sight glass accordingly?

[Leofric]

I get a different level indication when the bike is at very slightly differences from vertical.
I

That is why the bike has to be vertical.

[Veloman]

It might be me but I don't find it easy to judge EXACTLY when the bike is vertical whilst holding it, just a couple of degrees either way seems to have a significant effect on the oil level in the sight glass.  Perhaps that's why RE procedure requires use of the centre stand - assuming the stand is used on level ground of course.

[60muzz]

Its an absolute problem here in Australia, we are at the bottom end of the earth,
so have to look at the sight glass upside down. When it looks full it is actually empty,
but when it looks empty its full, have to move to the Equator.

[Bimble]

Yes and don’t forget the pull of the moon. Luckily I live by the coast and can link my checking of oil level with the height of the tides. For those inland, tide tables are available.

[Ivy]

Yes and don’t forget the pull of the moon. Luckily I live by the coast and can link my checking of oil level with the height of the tides. For those inland, tide tables are available.

That's a relief. I was worried about the tidal affect as I too live by the coast.

And you Ozzies, don't forget liquids flow the "wrong" way as well.

[Leofric]

On Harleys some models were supposed to be checked while on the side stand while others were supposed to be straight up. 

Well that certainly surprises me ,never heard of oil being checked with a bike on the side stand before

[Dexter]

Well that certainly surprises me ,never heard of oil being checked with a bike on the side stand before

Me neither, but it was probably a lot cheaper for Harley to just figure out where that level would be in relation to the crankcase and then make the dipstick longer to suit that off level measurement, than installing a centre stand.

Best not to piss off some of those Harley dudes anyway, by making them do gymnastics to hold the bike level. They do need two feet on the ground. At least, that's the way I always see them when they are stopped.

[tooseevee]

Well that certainly surprises me ,never heard of oil being checked with a bike on the side stand before

      No harley I ever had had a center stand. And there was never any problem checking the oil, no star-gazing, no hand-wringing, no nothing because they had an actual oil tank separate from and above the engine. All I had to do was  take the cap off & LOOK into the tank. I could SEE the reflection of the filler neck in the oil itself & tell if it needed any added or not. If the oil was around an inch below the filler neck, it was good to go.

      If you wanted an oil tank cap with a dipstick attached they were easy enough to get.

      There was never any "system" to it like I had to learn & get down pat & comfortable with when I got the '08 AVL in 2010. Not that it was incredibly difficult to get used to. I never had any problems related to oil level in any bike except the Enfield when I was learning what the oil level should be. Then it just became normal to check it after it had been running and allowed to sit & get its breath for a couple minutes. That way I didn't have to go through the whole routine the next time. 

[olhogrider]

      No harley I ever had had a center stand. And there was never any problem checking the oil, no star-gazing, no hand-wringing, no nothing because they had an actual oil tank separate from and above the engine. All I had to do was  take the cap off & LOOK into the tank. I could SEE the reflection of the filler neck in the oil itself & tell if it needed any added or not. If the oil was around an inch below the filler neck, it was good to go.

      If you wanted an oil tank cap with a dipstick attached they were easy enough to get.

      There was never any "system" to it like I had to learn & get down pat & comfortable with when I got the '08 AVL in 2010. Not that it was incredibly difficult to get used to. I never had any problems related to oil level in any bike except the Enfield when I was learning what the oil level should be. Then it just became normal to check it after it had been running and allowed to sit & get its breath for a couple minutes. That way I didn't have to go through the whole routine the next time.

My last Harley did have a center stand. 2021 Pan America. My current one, 2022 Heritage Softail doesn't. Also the "oil tank" is actually just a chrome cover over the electronics now. The tank itself its now an aluminum casting hidden by the transmission. Too many people complained about sitting on top of a hot oil tank.

[Leofric]

Has everybody now accepted the procedure for checking the engine oil level on the 350 is as described in the RE owners manual ?

[Ivy]

Has everybody now accepted the procedure for checking the engine oil level on the 350 is as described in the RE owners manual ?

Haha, yeah, reminds me of a motoring journalist whose response to readers questions was often Read The F****** Manual

[Dexter]

Well, it's Gearset who started this thread, trying to get an answer to this perplexing issue created by the dealer he had his bike serviced at.

I wonder if he has accepted the consensus on this, although, he hasn't visited the forum since early December. 

[Leofric]

Well, it's Gearset who started this thread, trying to get an answer to this perplexing issue created by the dealer he had his bike serviced at.

I wonder if he has accepted the consensus on this, although, he hasn't visited the forum since early December. 

Maybe he got bored with it all and gave up !

[Stephan]

I have a question: does anyone knows the quantity of oil between low level and high level?
That is something very useful and RE videos don’t speak about that. Havent find the response in the user manual either.

[3oro]

I will measure it at the next oil change

[Stephan]

I will measure it at the next oil change

Not a bad idea but next oil change will be done by a dealer because we don’t have same laws as you: if I do it myself it will void the warranty.
Till 2 years and then I can do all by myself.

[Dexter]

Not a bad idea but next oil change will be done by a dealer because we don’t have same laws as you: if I do it myself it will void the warranty.
Till 2 years and then I can do all by myself.

Just wondering why you need to know this, if the dealer is doing the oil changes for two more years?

[OscarSass]

I have a question: does anyone knows the quantity of oil between low level and high level?
That is something very useful and RE videos don’t speak about that. Havent find the response in the user manual either.

Good question.

The check method involves starting, revving, idling then waiting a minute or two. Next morning, the oil entirely covers the sight glass.

I guess the only way to check is when filling after an oil change - all the oil is at the bottom then, and someone could give a rough idea. 👍

[Stephan]

Just wondering why you need to know this, if the dealer is doing the oil changes for two more years?

If the level is at the minimum, knowing that helps to prepare the amount for filling without the risk of overfill that is always annoying.

[WildCard]

What happens if u over fill?

[Stephan]

What happens if u over fill?

You’ll have to pump it up because if not, it would damage the engine.

[Dexter]

My Meteor was overfilled from day one, but tilting the bike slightly left showed it wasn't overfilled by much. Just out of sight above the wee window. That won't hurt anything and I have found it difficult to get the level exactly onto the top line anyway. If anyone is worried about a slight overfill, best to try to leave the level at the half way mark instead.

Mine has been slightly out of sight after two changes since with no issue.

There is no way to pump it out anyway, as the oil fill hole is directly above the clutch basket and it is impossible to get any size hose down into the sump.

[WildCard]

I accidently over filled mine by about 400 mil. Or more. To remove I just used the drain plug.

What damage may have been done?

[om15]

I think the amount of oil required to raise the level from Min to Max is about 200ml, I check my level on the centre stand and still can't quite determine if I am using any or not as the level seems to go up and down.

[wojtek_pl]

Good question.

The check method involves starting, revving, idling then waiting a minute or two. Next morning, the oil entirely covers the sight glass.

By this method I have the right amount.
BTW, do your oil change color to black? And if, how fast ?

[Dexter]

By this method I have the right amount.
BTW, do your oil change color to black? And if, how fast ?

All oils will turn black. That tells you it is doing its job by absorbing carbon and other contaminants created during the process of combustion. Detergent additives in the oil do that. It is quite normal and does not mean it needs changing before the recommended intervals.

[WildCard]

When my oil gets black I add about half a qt of milk. Changes it back to proper color.

[Leofric]

When my oil gets black I add about half a qt of milk. Changes it back to proper color.

Is that semi skimmed or full fat ?

[WildCard]

Lactose free of course 

[wojtek_pl]

All oils will turn black. That tells you it is doing its job by absorbing carbon and other contaminants created during the process of combustion. Detergent additives in the oil do that. It is quite normal and does not mean it needs changing before the recommended intervals.

Question is: how much of that carbon goes into the oil. Too much in short period of time can indicate some serious problems with the engine...

[Dexter]

Question is: how much of that carbon goes into the oil. Too much in short period of time can indicate some serious problems with the engine...

Yes, it might indicate that you have seriously worn piston rings, or cylinder walls and the blow by is so great that you are also burning a lot of said oil, which would be quite evident from the blue smoke coming out your exhaust pipe. Unless you have that situation happening, you might be overthinking a non existent problem caused by the normal degradation of oil in an engine.

[WildCard]

Yea oil turns black pretty quick. My break in oil was pretty black even at 300 miles.

[Carl350]

Posted in the wrong thread! Doh.

[Stephan]

Ah the Hunter is not limited in speed?
The Classic is.

[Dexter]

  So in the name of science I’ve been out on the Hunter & “rung it’s neck” to see when the rev limiter cuts in through the gears. I used “Speedometer” app on my phone so +/- a bit...
  Bike stock apart from a 16tooth front sprocket, 3Kkms.


Rev limiter in each gear GPS (Speedo in brackets).
2nd 75 (80km/h,50mph)
3rd 100 (105kp/h, 65mph)
4th 125 (130km/h, 81mph)
5th 130..81mph GPS (135)

  Didn’t  hit the rev limiter in 5th & suspect without a long downhill it’s not going to happen.
   At 130 the bike feels a little bit “wallowey”, not overly worrying but it’s not comfortable either, 120 it’s fine & stable.

  Same post, two different threads? This one is about checking oil level.

[Carl350]

  Same post, two different threads? This one is about checking oil level.

  Yep, posted in the wrong thread but seeing as you quoted it all.....

  On topic, regarding the oil colour it surprises me WildCard your oil turned black so quickly, I have no explanation, my oil was clear on the first change at 600km and now at 3K it still looks new....

[OscarSass]

  Yep, posted in the wrong thread but seeing as you quoted it all.....

  On topic, regarding the oil colour it surprises me WildCard your oil turned black so quickly, I have no explanation, my oil was clear on the first change at 600km and now at 3K it still looks new....

I noticed mine got darker quicker after using it for motorway runs (110 mile round trips at 70-75 mostly).

[Carl350]

  Maybe heat then?
  It's hot where I am (30c+now) but I take it fairly easy on the Hunter so maybe that's it.

[OscarSass]

  Maybe heat then?
  It's hot where I am (30c+now) but I take it fairly easy on the Hunter so maybe that's it.

Yes I’m thinking the same.

There’s only so much surface area to help keep things cool.

[Navy Boy]

After having a read of this thread I'm going to use the centre stand but place something thin under the front wheel just to jack the front of the bike up slightly. That should make things as accurate as possible.

My bike too appears to be right at the top of the window - This with me checking it by pulling the bike upright on the side stand. Interestingly I fitted an oil temperature gauge oil filler cap to mine as I've fitted them to other machines - More for interest than anything else. On my last run the bike settled at around 45-50 degrees on the open road. Once parked up the temperature on the gauge rose to 70 degrees but then dropped back to 50ish when I rode back home again. So - The bike appears to be quite efficient at keeping itself cool. I'll be interested to see how much higher the running temperature is in the summer when temps are up in the high 20s/early 30s degrees Celcius.

Happy riding 

[Navy Boy]

After my ride out this last weekend I placed the bike onto the centrestand, placed a couple of thin flooring slabs under the front wheel to level the bike out and then checked the oil level. Sure enough the level was right at the top of the window, slightly over the full mark.

When I next perform an oil change (The bike is now up to 1300Km) in a month or two's time I'll be filling it to a slightly lower level me thinks. Interestingly the oil remains pretty clear and hasn't really darkened up much over the past 500-600Km since it was last done. This with quite a lot of open road riding (80-100Km/hr) though with it being winter here the oil temps haven't risen much above 50 degrees celcius so I'm guessing the oil isn't being put under too much strain at the moment. Perhaps in summer things will be a little different. 

[Carl350]

with it being winter here the oil temps haven't risen much above 50 degrees celcius

   50°c sump oil would be considered a "cold" engine & subject to wear. Is it extremely cold where you are?  How do you measure it? 80°c would be a happier minimum.
  (Reaching 100°c+ somewhere in the system regularly is good for vaporising condensation).

[Navy Boy]

This is with the oil temp filler cap which I bought from Hitchcocks. I have a similar item fitted to my Triumph Thruxton 1200 where the temp runs between 65 Degrees (In the winter on the open road) to 85 Degrees in the hotter summer months.

Being liquid cooled this aligns with my expectations as the engine temperature is more tightly controlled.

Seeing as the RE 350 is entirely air cooled, with no oil cooler fitted, the lower temperatures don't surprise me to be honest. It'll be interesting top see what temps it shows in the warmer summer months. Bear in mind that the road from my house places you onto open highway within 500 meters of the driveway so the engine is subjected to plenty of airflow from the off.

[Carl350]

       All I can add is my oil BMW 800 twins dip stick temp gauge always used to run 100~110°c albeit in 20~30°c ambient.
       The dip stick gauges are known for being a guide & not particularly accurate.
      But, there's plenty of info on the net that will tell you your oil readings are "cold" low.

 

[Dexter]

That oil temp sensor in the filler cap is far from accurate, as it does not actually sit in the sump in the oil bath where it needs to measure from and only gets oil splashed on it and being well isolated from a good splash by the clutch basket, I imagine it reads well below the actual sump oil temperature.

As mentioned by Carl, oil that doesn't get past the boiling point of water is not something you want in an engine, as the water content will build up with every heating and the following condensation cycle.

A thermal laser to read the lower crankcase temperature would give a better idea of how hot the oil is, measured as soon as a ride is finished.

[Navy Boy]

Interesting point Dexter. I may well buy myself a laser temp sensor and try this out.

An additional point is that when I park up the temperature reading goes up (Up to 70 degrees on my last ride) however it then goes back down when you are out on the open road once more.

I am assuming that this is brought about by heat soak when parked up and then being splashed with oil once more brings the temperature back down again.

I'm happy in the knowledge that a dip stick/filler gauge isn't going to give you a 100% accurate reading. The idea is simply to provide something of interest, that's all.

[Carl350]

   I think we can be fairly confident these engines don't run cold unless being run somewhere a long way below freezing or used for very short journeys.
   And as far as overheating goes it seems they stand up to hot climates pretty well.
   Diggs indicated in this thread ~ https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=34549.120 (post #129) that consistent 4K+ revs increases oil temperature (in the head cooling circuit) considerably but the engine is able to cope with this.

[Navy Boy]

So - I did my first oil and filter change this last weekend on my 350 Classic. Interestingly I put arouind 1.8 litres back in which got the level up to the top of the sight glass, this with the bike on its centrestand with the front wheel slightly raised to get it as level as possible.

This compared to the almost 2 litres I took out...

Anyway, this was at almost 1400Km so I'll probably do another oil change at 3000Km. The oil that came out was pretty clean and the sump plug and strainer had very little debris as well.

I filled with 10W-50 Penrite semi-synthetic bike oil which I've used in a number of other bikes. Time will tell how it works out.

[Veloman]

Just to keep this wonderful topic going

I changed my oil yesterday after draining it the previous day and leaving overnight to ensure that all the oil that was going to come out had done so.
Replaced just under 1.7litres of oil and then followed the oil level check procedure given in my owner manual - start engine and gently raise rpm for 10s, leave in idling condition for 15s, turn engine off and wait for oil to settle (approx 60s) - then topped up oil to max mark.

On returning from a short test ride and checking, the oil level was above the sight glass. Thought it might be because oil was hot so left and rechecked this morning to find it still above the sight glass, Exactly as it was when brought home from the dealer at purchase and from other comments on this forum the same as other owners found with their new bikes which at the time led me to believe that either dealer or RE, if the engines come with oil in, had overfilled.

Before going out for a ride today and using my phone as a spirit level I tilted the bike to the left and the top of the oil came into view in the sight glass at 2 degrees of lean, so not massively over filled. Taking the bike off the stand and holding it at 0 degrees made no difference to the oil level.   I then repeated the RE oil level check procedure.  Looking at the sight glass immediately after turning the engine off there was no oil at all visible but then it slowly appeared and after a minute or more it was sitting at the max level mark.

I can only conclude that whilst the majority of the oil returns to the sump after a minute or two there is a small proportion that takes a long time to do so when the engine is practically cold.
Although I agree with others that this "official" method of checking oil level is tedious I am going to follow it.  My bike goes very nicely even if it does appear to be overfilled with oil.

[Dexter]

Just to keep this wonderful topic going

I changed my oil yesterday after draining it the previous day and leaving overnight to ensure that all the oil that was going to come out had done so.
Replaced just under 1.7litres of oil and then followed the oil level check procedure given in my owner manual - start engine and gently raise rpm for 10s, leave in idling condition for 15s, turn engine off and wait for oil to settle (approx 60s) - then topped up oil to max mark.

On returning from a short test ride and checking, the oil level was above the sight glass. Thought it might be because oil was hot so left and rechecked this morning to find it still above the sight glass, Exactly as it was when brought home from the dealer at purchase and from other comments on this forum the same as other owners found with their new bikes which at the time led me to believe that either dealer or RE, if the engines come with oil in, had overfilled.

Before going out for a ride today and using my phone as a spirit level I tilted the bike to the left and the top of the oil came into view in the sight glass at 2 degrees of lean, so not massively over filled. Taking the bike off the stand and holding it at 0 degrees made no difference to the oil level.   I then repeated the RE oil level check procedure.  Looking at the sight glass immediately after turning the engine off there was no oil at all visible but then it slowly appeared and after a minute or more it was sitting at the max level mark.

I can only conclude that whilst the majority of the oil returns to the sump after a minute or two there is a small proportion that takes a long time to do so when the engine is practically cold.
Although I agree with others that this "official" method of checking oil level is tedious I am going to follow it.  My bike goes very nicely even if it does appear to be overfilled with oil.

As I have said all along and you have now found out for yourself, RE's method of oil level checking leaves a lot to be desired and does not provide any level of real accuracy with such a short period of time between running the engine and then checking the oil level.

It goes without saying that oil does not have the same viscosity as water and some of it will take time - much more than a minute or two - to get back to the sump.

Just drain the oil in whatever fashion makes you think you got most of it out, refill to the line, run the engine and then WAIT  .  .  . either overnight, or for a few HOURS before checking the level again. Then, if it needs topping to the line, add more at that point.

This will be the only way to avoid those concerns about the slight overfill that many have needlessly worried about in this thread, which in itself is not a problem for this engine anyway.

[Veloman]

Thanks Dexter but what I was trying to say is perhaps the "correct" level after a long period of sitting is in fact a full sight glass and is what RE considers to be the correct maximum.  Perhaps somewhere along the engine design journey someone got the sight glass position slightly wrong and didn't take into account the small amount of oil that stays up in the engine for a long time before draining.  who knows?  Either way if that is a correct assumption I have an engine with oil level at maximum and you have an engine with oil at around the midway between max and min points.  Either way it doesn't really make any difference but makes a good talking point.

[MMRanch]

Way too Silly !
Truth comes out : 
 The Meteor is an astonishing piece of design and engineering, but I think the handbook was written by numpties.

I always error on the side of too full on the oil.
As long as the swinging crank shaft don't splash in oil like a Brigg's and Stratton it's not too full.
For those who don't know :
The Older Brigg's and Stratton engines have a cup on the bottom of the crank (rod bearing) that scoops-up oil into a oil hole in the crankshaft bearing.   
So Oil level is critical to them ... but not to engines with a real oil pump like ours.
Yes I know more modern B&S engines have oil pumps too.   What I'm saying is ... "Oil level is not that critical "

Something that is Critical is using real Synthetic oil , not one of those blends.

I've got over 13,000 miles on mine now and have always slightly over-filled it.   It keeps getting better every day ! 

[Dexter]

 
It keeps getting better every day ! 

Wow! It has been getting better every day for a long time now. Yours must have been a real POS when you first got it then! Glad I bought one of the best ones right off the bat!

  

[SteveThackery]

Something that is Critical is using real Synthetic oil , not one of those blends.

Evidence?

The handbook says semi-synthetic, doesn't it?

[George S.]

MMRanch,
I’d be interested in hearing why you don’t like semi-synthetic.

I had a very low mileage (17,000 mi) Dodge pickup that its cam gear disintegrated almost immediately after an oil change with semi-synthetic oil and I’ve never used semi-synthetic since then. Am I being irrational? Was it just an unfortunate coincidence? Maybe. Maybe. But it’s turned me off from using it ever again. 

[tooseevee]

I always error on the side of too full on the oil.

    It's "I always err on the side of".

     Just tryin' to help 

      I've never used either semi- or full in anything &  I've never had an oil caused failure.

       If I put too much oil in my AVL it just blows it out the CC vent until it's where it wants it to be. So I only overfilled it 1nce 

[Carl350]

  Regarding checking the oil level (I've just posted similar O.T in the "oil consumption" thread).

    BMW boxers (sorry again 😉) use a sight glass that's checked after running the engine, in fact "by the book" involves running, side stand then centre stand so even more complicated.
    I've found that to be a plus when touring as an oil check can be done when refuelling which is convenient.
     
      I check my Hunter's level as R.E recommends & it works fine.

     Why is it when it comes to oil specifications it's strongly argued that RE knows best, but when it comes to checking the oil they don't? 🤔

[Ivy]

 
     
      I check my Hunter's level as R.E recommends & it works fine.

     Why is it when it comes to oil specifications it's strongly argued that RE knows best, but when it comes to checking the oil they don't? 🤔

Me too, it does specificly say in the handbook to not check cold.

Moto Guzzi handbook states, "oil is best checked after running for about 15 KM".

I know someone said what's that got to do with RE in the past, but it shows it's not unusual to run the engine and then check it.
Also that's why we have a max and min level, it's not millilitre critical.

[SteveThackery]

Also that's why we have a max and min level, it's not millilitre critical.

^^^^^^^^ This!

[Leofric]

Evidence?

The handbook says semi-synthetic, doesn't it?

Yes,it does, and I mentioned it to the mechanic at my RE dealer a while ago and he said there is no need to put FULLY synthetic oil in the 350J engine .

[MMRanch]

B. Semi-Synthetic Multigrade
Oil manufacturers create a semi synthetic motor oil by mixing mineral oil (crude oil derivative) with a synthetic oil base.

As a result, the synthetic blend offers adequate lubrication for longer and produces less acidic byproducts that may erode your engine parts. 

Another plus of semi synthetic oil is that it offers better fuel economy at lower prices than a fully synthetic blend. 

C. Fully Synthetic Multigrade
A fully synthetic motor oil is distilled, refined, and purified by oil manufacturers at a molecular level to make it ideal for any modern petrol or diesel engine.

Since synthetic oil has a higher viscosity index than mineral oil, it’s less affected by temperature change. It requires a lesser amount of oil additive to keep the oil fluid under operating temperature.

The better thermal stability of synthetic oil also keeps it from degrading faster than conventional oil. This lubricant has improved detergent properties, which help fight corrosion on engine parts and lower sludge formation.

Moreover, as synthetic base oils are devoid of impurities, you can use them for motorsports and extreme climate conditions.

A full synthetic or synthetic blend is also essential for vehicles with turbocharged engines, as these engines have a higher operating temperature than a standard engine.

The Short assure is Price.   
I'll tell about my first encounter with Full Synthetic :
I'd been using dino mult-grade (Blend) in my 4 cylinder air cool 750 Kawasaki.   One year I put Full Synthetic in.   
Well after ridding 7000 miles and sitting all winter , I went to change oil in the spring of the year.   
I got some on my fingers and found it was still slick as dino oil (Blend) when it was new !   
I've been sold on it ever since. 

I'm sold on Mobil 1 European 0-W-40 , till something better comes along !
I'm averaging 83mpg with it in my Meteor.

[MMRanch]

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/auto-care/all-about-oil/learn-about-motor-oil/types-of-synthetic-oil

[SteveThackery]

I got some on my fingers and found it was still slick as dino oil (Blend) when it was new !   

Sorry, but there's no way you can test the lubricity of an oil by rubbing it between your fingers. Test laboratories have extremely sophisticated and expensive equipment to do that.

[MMRanch]

Steve ,

Get some dino oil on your finger and thumb , then see how long it take to rub through the oil film .
Now
Do the same with the good stuff , it will turn you into a believer too.
Ain't nothing hard about it . 

[SteveThackery]

Steve ,

Get some dino oil on your finger and thumb , then see how long it take to rub through the oil film .
Now
Do the same with the good stuff , it will turn you into a believer too.
Ain't nothing hard about it . 

It's subjective, and therefore of no value except to the individual making the claim.

The viscosity of the oil is almost certainly what you are "measuring" with your finger and thumb, and you can find that out just by looking at the can. The lubricity isn't something you can feel.

Anyway, if you are happy believing in your thumb test then that's fine by me. I'm just arguing that others should be more sceptical of such claims.

[MMRanch]

Its just something you have to do for yourself ... or not that's OK.   

I can tell you all day about what it's like to have a fish on your fishing pole but till you do it for yourself  you'll just never really know ?   

[SteveThackery]

Its just something you have to do for yourself ... or not that's OK.   

I've done it - probably most of us have. That's why I think you are just feeling the viscosity.

[MMRanch]

Rub longer and harder Steve .   you'll brake through the film on each type of oil according to how good the oil is.

[Dexter]

Rub longer and harder Steve .   you'll brake through the film on each type of oil according to how good the oil is.

I can see the bean counters at Exxon discovering this revolutionary new technique for viscosity testing now and saving the corporation millions of $$$ by firing all their chemical engineers. What a breakthrough for modern oil developments! 

  

[Ivy]

.......Rub longer and harder Steve ........

Oo'err missus.

[Royal T]

I can see the bean counters at Exxon discovering this revolutionary new technique for viscosity testing now and saving the corporation millions of $$$ by firing all their chemical engineers. What a breakthrough for modern oil developments! 

  

 

[Leofric]

I can see the bean counters at Exxon discovering this revolutionary new technique for viscosity testing now and saving the corporation millions of $$$ by firing all their chemical engineers. What a breakthrough for modern oil developments! 

  

  👍

[MMRanch]

well , really what you should be testing is "Film Strength"   ,  not to be confused with viscosity .   Some of you folks can be so simple minded ...

have your fun and keep your hands clean , that's just fine.