[AzCal Retred]

Scott84 on the sohc4 seems to have petered out around April 2019. Another guy there, "ratranger" says he EFI'd an XS650 Yamaha, so it seems like it's doable with perseverance. Probably a lot easier if there's something very similar but EFI'd already to work from.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/efi-what-throttle-bodies.16893/
On the XS650 site there is a link to: (   http://www.ecotrons.com   )
There is a letter there talking about a 650 conversion, as well as a picture of the fairly complete looking to me kit. It has a throttle body. Price in 2017 was about $700. The XS650 is a parallel twin, so a single TB should work fine, like an older Tiger or Thunderbolt. Take a look, see what you think, may be some possibilities.

https://www.ecotrons.com/small_engine_fuel_injection_kit/400cc_to_800cc_engine_fuel_injection_kit/

[viczena]

Interesting stuff. At least for 1 cyl engines they produce their own manifold. For 2,3,4 cyl engines you have to buy a used Manifold from another EFI bike and make it fit.

The other culprit ist CKP. If your Bike already has a CDI, it is quite simple. If not, you might get away with the noisy coilsignal, but most likely you have to create your own crankshaft position sensor system, for example with several magnets and a hall sensor.

If you did that, welding a threaded flange onto the exhaust (for the lambda) and maybe install a new pipe in the tank for the return line of the gas pump is a breeze.

I dont know what this kit will cost, but I think you would be better off to sell the bike as it is and buy a newer EFi bike. In addition to that in most countries with governmental inspection this conversion will not be street legal.

As for the software you should know what you are doing. You should have a dyno at hand to create a valid VE map. The delivered software you can download has a trojan horse with it (Trojan.Gen.MBT).

[AzCal Retred]

Glad you got to visit the site. 

Did you download the Ecotron site software to view it? Which one had the trojan?

A 360 parallel twin under 800cc using a 2 int 1 intake manifold should be able to run Ecotron's throttle body.

The crank position sensor seems the main "engineering" feat to accomplish. The XS650 had points in the head on a cam stub, so that's accessible for ignition duty.

No argument that it's way easier to just buy a factory EFI set up. You'd mentioned earlier that you were interested in EFI-ing your Boss Hoss, I was curious as to how doable it was. Seems so if you want to make the effort.

Glad you enjoyed that site, always something new to learn. - ACR -

[JohnnieK]

A new fuel pump costs 40 Euros. From the manufacturer.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/06-Fuel-Pump-Royal-Enfield-Bullet-Classic-500cc-EFI-NEW-CLASSIC-500cc-571052/392503105912?hash=item5b63021978:g:tbQAAOSwITReJe6f

According to Hitchcocks the fuel pump for my C5 costs 429 uk pounds. That is more or less in line with the R7k that the local dealer quoted me. A top end rebuild a XR650L costs around R5k. The pump in the link does not even resemble the pump in my C5.

[viczena]

Rebuilding the 8l Chevy Big Block engine to EFI is quite simple. There are several  manufacturers who provide kits. And these kits are selflearning and selfoptimizing. They have a big market for these devices.

My problem is to find an EFI manifold, that will fit under the tank.

[viczena]

According to Hitchcocks the fuel pump for my C5 costs 429 uk pounds. That is more or less in line with the R7k that the local dealer quoted me. A top end rebuild a XR650L costs around R5k. The pump in the link does not even resemble the pump in my C5.

I also dont understand why RE sells that cheap and simple item for more than the whole engine is worth. You get a fuel pump for other bikes starting at 11 $. High end racing devices for Big Block Chevy engines cost no more than 400$. Street price for a standard fuel pump of decent quality is 70$.

Maybe an indian clerk at the factory pushed the point in the pricing one place to the right. While sleepishly digesting his lunch.

If my fuel pump fails, I would buy the polish thing or better buy a decent fuel pump with pressure regulator and install that. For less than 50$.

Fuel injection pressure is 294kpa (2.9bar). So not very much.If you use a fuel pump with a variable pressure regulator, you could go to 3.2bar, for an easy tuning. Without changing the EFI. I have once done that with a 2000 Harley Roadking. Works perfectly.

https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/B019BTTU60/ref=rtpb_3?pd_rd_w=70GeQ&pf_rd_p=be844577-fee7-4bbc-8dda-083e56cc6f0d&pf_rd_r=QWJW52MAQDFSMJKCC9C0&pd_rd_r=bcef9712-9f15-4949-8e72-31324e1f74b8&pd_rd_wg=4J4MM&pd_rd_i=B019BTTU60&psc=1

[ace.cafe]

I work with what is there.

If it came with EFI, then I tune it with a Power Commander.

If it came with a carb, I put a Mikuni on it.

In real life, with high performance tunings on Iron Barrel 535 with 34mm Mikuni carb vs 535GT 535 UCE with 34mm EFI, they both came out the same on the dyno and on the road performance.

[Ove]

.....An EFi works much better than any Carb on the market. It is not dependend on the pressure differential of a venturi to deliver a das/air mixture......

That's just not my experience. EFI has an on / off jerkiness, especially at lower speeds and cannot match the directly connected feeling you get from a carb, especially the fine throttle adjustments, when you are rolling on coming out of a bend.

It's like guitar amps. A digital amp may be more efficient and accurate, but it doesn't have the sound quality of a valve amp.

[viczena]

What you describe as "directly connected", is just the late and sluggish response of your carb to your throttle commands.

An EFI responds much more directly to your throttle. In bigger engines this can be a problem for beginners, so the more sophisticated EFIs allow you to program a sluggish throttle response.

Or more in pictures:
If you move the throttle the EFI says: You want it, you get it. The Carb hesitates and says: Lets see how the jet will respond to the change of the vacuum in the manifold.

[Ove]

Yep, and I love it.

And, the satisfaction of messing with pilot jet sizing, pilot air screws and throttle screws to get it idling just right. It's mechanical,  repairable, gives you warning if it's wearing out.  Not disposable, requiring more time in front of a screen to manage.

I don't know if this explains the 'feeling's. To me, it's sine wave vs. square wave. More enjoyable ride, more fun to maintain, nicer to look at.

If:
1. I knew how to strip out all the ECU and associated connections and sensors (1 of which already failed on my Bullet); and
2. I didn't risk some future issues with the authorities (changes to MOT inspections),
I'd get rid of my efi.

[viczena]

Yep, and I love it.

And, the satisfaction of messing with EFI AFR values and timing, to get it just right with good low end torque. It is easy, doesnt make a mess with gas, quick and clean. I dont have to mechanically change anything. It gives you a pecise warning, if a component fails. Optherwise it just works perfectly. In all weather conditions.

I have a switch installed, so I can compare the old and the new values while driving.

More enjoyable ride, more fun to maintain, nicer to look at.

[AzCal Retred]

https://thekneeslider.com/highest-tech-possible-or-home-workshop-repairable/

Quote:
Engines have improved, computer control has given us precise fuel metering and ignition timing over the entire rpm range, not to mention variable valve timing, antilock brakes and throttle by wire, the bikes you can buy today are on an entirely different plane than the vintage machines of yesteryear, there’s no comparison on almost any level, but, as I asked above, can you fix it? No assortment of tools will repair electronics that have failed. If the chip fails, the bike dies. No parts available mean you have a serious problem.

Look at the vintage bikes constantly restored and resold over many decades, a well equipped machine shop will return them to like new or better than new condition with an engine more reliable than ever. Original parts are long gone but you can rebuild them indefinitely. Now look at the newest bikes. Electronics are surprisingly reliable and take a lot before failing but when they do, it’s a trip to the parts counter or a search for a parts bike. Failing that, the bike sits.

[viczena]

Yeah, you need a a well equipped machine shop and a talented mechanic. Both rare and expensive. No parts available mean you have a serious problem.

"Original parts are long gone but you can rebuild them indefinitely." If you have a lathe and a milling machine and measuring tools.  And the skills to operate them. Or you buy these parts for big bucks from a retrofitter.

Failing that, the bike sits.

The tool you need for electronics is a laptop and a multimeter. Not a hammer and a screwdriver. Sensors are easy to get, fuel pumps are cheap and easy to retrofit. EFis are built by the millions, and even then you could retrofit a free EFI.

[AzCal Retred]

Years back we had the factory electronic control module installation from the 1970's running one of our two Compressed Air Buildings fail. A new factory system was quoted at $200K. Turns out with some common $500 industrial PLC's, some digital I/O and a small bucket of interposing relays we got the Air House back on line for $20K. Normally it's just proper I/O and a suitable program to replicate device function. As long as you can get suitable injector nozzles, the rest you could source aftermarket. Industrial PLC's are amazing, many run on DC 12V/24V/48V for heavy equipment or marine application. Once you build the basic program, you're there - it's just tuning after that. You are "free" of the factory parts constraints. Of course, you'd need a reason to do the work, either personal or financial.

[viczena]

Retrofitting another EFI is always possible. There are 2 annoying things: Redo the plug and redo the VE table.

Hopefully there will also be retrofitting ECUs for smaller bikes with selflearning. That would save a lot of time.

I am still waiting for a manufacturer to sell a preconfigured free EFI for the RE. But it seems that the demand is too low, as the factory EFi lasts forever.