Author Topic: High speed shake  (Read 3914 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

agagliardi

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 530
  • Karma: 0
Reply #15 on: September 03, 2024, 08:35:52 pm
You should be able to tell. Put it on the center stand and sit on the back of the seat or have someone help. With the front off the ground turn the bars. You should have a ballpark idea if they are way off.  If there is excessive resistance, and when you nudge the bars either way there is no movement at all, then too tight. If the bars just fall away quickly with no resistance either way, then too loose. At least you can get an idea if the bearing is the culprit. I doubt the bearing is damaged, even if too tight. It is probably too loose.
1988 Super Magna(Disabled), 2000 Harley Softail, 2004 Hayabusa, 2020 Royal Enfield Interceptor, 2004 Corvette, 2019 Indian scout


JessHerbst

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,628
  • Karma: 0
Reply #16 on: September 03, 2024, 11:04:51 pm
Let’s not get too carried away.  Jess had a new rear tire fitted, it is unlikely that somehow now the steering head bearing need adjusting. A fellow Interceptor rider here had a new front tyre fitted and now has a shake at a certain speed ( ~50mph). I’ve ridden it and can confirm it has it. After looking at all sorts of potential causes the front wheel is not true and he is getting the rim trued up.  Don’t know if somehow tyre machines can mess up a spoke rim but after my experience (where I admittedly bent some spokes) the wheel man did say the rim was pretty out of true even though I couldn’t detect anything from riding the bike. So all in all I’d say make sure you all check spoke tightness routinely and adjust.
The steering head bearing was adjusted by the dealer at same time as tire was installed, that is why it is also suspect.
2022 Continental GT650


JessHerbst

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,628
  • Karma: 0
Reply #17 on: September 03, 2024, 11:06:56 pm
I did find the bearing extremely tight. I backed it off ⅛ turn. It’s currently raining so no test ride yet.
 Stay tuned.
2022 Continental GT650


agagliardi

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 530
  • Karma: 0
Reply #18 on: September 04, 2024, 01:01:45 am
Did you loosen the lower triple clamp bolts before adjusting the tension? I think that is necessary to allow the adjustment, or at least that is how it appears to my eye. Maybe our more experienced mechanics, like Mark Z or NJ Mike could comment.
1988 Super Magna(Disabled), 2000 Harley Softail, 2004 Hayabusa, 2020 Royal Enfield Interceptor, 2004 Corvette, 2019 Indian scout


whippers

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,791
  • Karma: 0
Reply #19 on: September 04, 2024, 02:14:33 am
The steering head bearing was adjusted by the dealer at same time as tire was installed, that is why it is also suspect.
Oh well that makes much more sense then
2021 Royal Enfield 650 Interceptor Baker Express
2007 Ducati Monster S4RS

The older I get the Faster I was


NJ Mike

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 746
  • Karma: 0
Reply #20 on: September 04, 2024, 02:38:43 am
Did you loosen the lower triple clamp bolts before adjusting the tension? I think that is necessary to allow the adjustment, or at least that is how it appears to my eye. Maybe our more experienced mechanics, like Mark Z or NJ Mike could comment.

I only loosened the bolts on the top triple clamp when I did mine. The amount that it was turned, very little, really shouldn't have made the triples move on the forks, just a bit of snug to the head bearings was all it needed. Basically went from the factory speicified 8 Nm to 16 Nm to achieve the proper amount of drag to get the damn thing to stop wanting to go into a tank slapper at 80 mph. Didn't matter what tires were on the bike. Now it's totally solid at any speed, with any tire.
Been riding since 1980. Live in Bloomfield, NJ.

Current Ride: 2019 RE Conti GT 650

Past Rides: 2002 SV 650, 2001 Moto-Guzzi V11 Sport, 1985 BMW K75, 1992 Honda 750 Nighthawk, 1982 Yamaha Vision, 1981 Kawasaki GPZ 550, 1978 Honda 750F, 1980 Honda 650


JessHerbst

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,628
  • Karma: 0
Reply #21 on: September 04, 2024, 04:30:29 am
Did you loosen the lower triple clamp bolts before adjusting the tension? I think that is necessary to allow the adjustment, or at least that is how it appears to my eye. Maybe our more experienced mechanics, like Mark Z or NJ Mike could comment.
Yes
2022 Continental GT650


zimmemr

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,051
  • Karma: 0
Reply #22 on: September 04, 2024, 05:23:26 am
Did you loosen the lower triple clamp bolts before adjusting the tension? I think that is necessary to allow the adjustment, or at least that is how it appears to my eye. Maybe our more experienced mechanics, like Mark Z or NJ Mike could comment.

Unfortunately, I've got more questions than answers here, but if Jess can fill in the gaps I'll be happy to try and help. In the meantime, here's my two cents for what it's worth.

 I'm a little unclear on what's happening. are you saying the motorcycle becomes unstable while you're riding at a specific speed in a straight line, or does it only happen when you decelerate or accelerate?

Is the bike exhibiting a wobble, meaning the handlebars start to oscillate rapidly, especially when you're decelerating, or have a light grip on them?  This is usually called a "tank slapper" for the obvious reason.

Or is the bike weaving, which is a slower oscillation that starts at the rear and makes the bike feel like it's got a hinge in the middle?

Normally wobble occurs at 35 to maybe 55 mph when you're either accelerating hard, and the front end gets light, which strikes me as somewhat unlikely given the RE's limited power, or when you're decelerating with a light grip on the bars. Wobbles are generally caused by mechanical issues, loose steering head bearings, out of balance front tires, loose spokes, etc. Typically, the riders grip is enough to damp out a wobble that occurs during deceleration, which is why riders that complain their bike "shakes it's head" when they take their hands off the bars are usually told simply to keep both hands on the grips. Wobbles generally disappear as speed increases, sport bikes and race bikes sometimes have a pronounced wobble when accelerating at full throttle from a low speed, most riders, at least the successful ones just ride thru it until everything calms down.   

Weave is a bit more dangerous and much harder to control or resolve, in large part because every motorcycle ever built will weave at some speed, if you can get it to go fast enough.

Without knowing exactly what your bike is doing wobbling or weaving all I can do throw out a few suggestions most of which have already been mentioned.

First would be to check all the obvious stuff tire pressures, steering head bearing adjustment, swing arm pivot play etc. I'd also check any accessories like windscreens, saddle bags or anything else that's been added to the bike, make sure they're properly mounted and secure. Hell, even the mirrors can have an impact.

One concern I have here is that you changed one tire and not the other. Because the tires play a major role in damping out wobble and weave, a mismatch between tires can cause either problem, especially if there's a profound weight difference between the two. Tire pressure is also a major factor, the higher the pressure the less damping ability the tire has, so make sure one tire or the other isn't overly inflated. There is also the possibility that your new rear tire, won't work with your bike, or won't work with your front tire. Some bikes are funny that way, which is why manufacturers often spec specific tires for their bikes.

As a general thought, the Interceptor/Conti's are generally stable platforms, but they do have a short wheelbase and a steep steering head without a lot of trail, although they're conservative by modern standards, their overall geometry would have been considered fairly radical not too long ago, so some chassis nervousness is to be expected, especially on the Conti with it's narrow clip=on handlebars. 



« Last Edit: September 04, 2024, 05:33:15 am by zimmemr »


Yinzer

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 725
  • Karma: 0
  • Pittsburgh, Pa.
Reply #23 on: September 04, 2024, 06:31:51 am
Tire pressure was adjusted to 32psi front 36psi rear before the ride.

Try 34-39 (assuming BT-46 tires)
Check for cupping & balance on the front tire.

My head bearing has about 2 Nm of torque and no problems. (I know...Kinda weird  ???)

Relax and re-torque your pinch bolt after jouncing your forks vigorously.

Above is a good list of stuff.
Report your findings  :)
2022 Interceptor MkIII (My bike)
1998 Iron Bullet 500 (Shared bike)
2023 Hunter 350 (Dad's bike)


Leofric

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,778
  • Karma: 0
  • UK
Reply #24 on: September 05, 2024, 12:13:11 am
Get a Classic 350, it won't go fast enough to develop a high speed shake  ;D


Johnny Ro

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: 0
Reply #25 on: September 05, 2024, 01:01:17 am
I had that, accelerated my plan to buy RE cast wheels and BT46s. Never looked back. The OEM sit in basement, not sure how to dispose.


JessHerbst

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,628
  • Karma: 0
Reply #26 on: September 06, 2024, 07:45:19 pm
Sorry for late update, life and Texas heat got in the way of test rides.
 I backed off the head bearing an 1/8th turn and that took 95% of the wobble away. I just applied another 1/8th turn on feel it should cure the problem.
 I think the dealer mechanic tightened it too tight. It took a lot of effort for the first 1/8th turn.
2022 Continental GT650


agagliardi

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 530
  • Karma: 0
Reply #27 on: September 06, 2024, 08:09:02 pm
That's great. The remaining 5% will probably clear out on its own
1988 Super Magna(Disabled), 2000 Harley Softail, 2004 Hayabusa, 2020 Royal Enfield Interceptor, 2004 Corvette, 2019 Indian scout


Graham B

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
  • Karma: 0
Reply #28 on: September 07, 2024, 08:41:38 am
Sorry for late update, life and Texas heat got in the way of test rides.
 I backed off the head bearing an 1/8th turn and that took 95% of the wobble away. I just applied another 1/8th turn on feel it should cure the problem.
 I think the dealer mechanic tightened it too tight. It took a lot of effort for the first 1/8th turn.
After you've adjusted it, check for fore/aft movement in case you've backed it off too far.
Past rides
Honda C70, CB125, GL1000, GL1100, GL1200, GL1500
Suzuki GT250, GS400
Triumph Tiger 750 (Meriden)
Yamaha XS750

Current rides
Honda GL1500 Goldwing
Royal Enfield Interceptor 650


JessHerbst

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,628
  • Karma: 0
Reply #29 on: September 07, 2024, 04:16:52 pm
After you've adjusted it, check for fore/aft movement in case you've backed it off too far.
I did. I also sit on bike, off stand, grab front brake and check for front/back slack. Something I picked up from years of working on bicycles.
2022 Continental GT650