Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum

General Discussion => Tech Tips => Topic started by: AgentX on July 04, 2012, 05:45:28 pm

Title: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: AgentX on July 04, 2012, 05:45:28 pm
Hi everyone:

After getting the lockring seated to couple the clutch hub and basket, I noticed there was a slight bit of play in the junction.  Figured it was probably normal and necessary. 

Mounted the assembly along with the primary chain and crank sprocket, and could still feel and see a mm or two of wiggle if you tugged at the edge of the clutch basket.

Now I have the clutch assembled, and when I pull the lever, I can see the whole basket moving slightly to the outboard as the plates disengage.  Is this normal?  Highly detrimental?  Possible causes and fixes if so?

Only thing I could think of is shimming under the lockring somehow.

Advice appreciated as always.

MD
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: Blltrdr on July 05, 2012, 02:07:23 am
Yes there is some movement there. I would think what you are seeing is normal.
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: cyrusb on July 06, 2012, 01:55:54 am
Same as mine, been like that from day one.
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: AgentX on July 06, 2012, 02:00:29 am
Thanks, fellas.

Can't be too careful when you're a ham-fisted know-nothing...   ???
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: Lwt Big Cheese on July 06, 2012, 07:13:53 am
Mine has play. But the everything on mine has play!
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: Kevin Mahoney on July 06, 2012, 10:21:19 am
What kind of bike?
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: AgentX on July 06, 2012, 10:25:13 am
It's a 1977 (350, obviously) with a 5-spd transmission and what the parts dept told me was a 500cc clutch.  (4-plate)

Both near brand-new.
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: Blltrdr on July 06, 2012, 03:13:46 pm
It's a 1977 (350, obviously) with a 5-spd transmission and what the parts dept told me was a 500cc clutch.  (4-plate)

Both near brand-new.

In the US market the 5spd clutch pack has five heavily segmented thinner friction plates and the 4spd has four (1-24 segments per side and 3-w/4 segments per side) thicker friction plates. Both sets fit in the same clutch basket. The upgrade would be to run the 5spd clutch pack with the extra plate. I would suspect a 4spd clutch pack would work fine for your 350 but if not then I would try upgrading to the 5spd clutch pack.
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: barenekd on July 06, 2012, 07:12:16 pm
As far as the slop when the clutch is disengaged, that is normal. If you shimmed it up to get rid of the slop, then you couldn't disengage your clutch. It's all part of the process.
Bare
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: AgentX on July 07, 2012, 03:35:43 am
As far as the slop when the clutch is disengaged, that is normal. If you shimmed it up to get rid of the slop, then you couldn't disengage your clutch. It's all part of the process.
Bare

I don't get it.  What does play between the hub and basket (not the slop in the clutch plates when it's disengaged) have to do with the operation of the clutch?
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: The Garbone on July 08, 2012, 08:26:37 pm
My impression is the bottom of the basket is a functioning part of the friction assembly and needs to move to engage and disengage.   
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: barenekd on July 08, 2012, 11:59:16 pm
The basket has to be a bit loose on the hub bearing so the hub can spin when the basket isn't. If you shim it up too tight, you will have a dragging clutch.
Bare
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: AgentX on July 09, 2012, 03:09:16 am
Right on, thanks!
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: AgentX on July 15, 2012, 04:18:23 pm
So the clutch is now working fine, but when I watch it as I kick it over, or when I first started the engine before I had the primary cover on, I can see the basket wobbling a little.

Assuming that's normal, but could use a tad more reassurance from the experienced people...thanks in advance and sorry to be a pest.  Hope my questions are creating decent searchable material for future newbs!
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: Blltrdr on July 15, 2012, 08:24:12 pm
So looking at my spare clutch hub and basket I notice 1/8"< of in/out play between the two and the retaining ring but no play up and down. If you see a slight wobble you should check for up and down movement. If there is movement your bearings on your basket are probably shot.
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: AgentX on July 16, 2012, 03:44:07 pm
Thanks, Bllt.

In potentially related news, this clutch has always seemed to prefer being adjusted with the cable having no slack.  Was this way with both the previous 4spd and the current 5spd.  If I leave it too loose, it likes to drag and die at idle.  (seemingly more once the bike's warmed up than when it's cold...)

Is this detrimental?  I don't wanna shear off the cable ends every 500 miles or anything.  Indicative of something else wrong in there?
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: Blltrdr on July 16, 2012, 04:05:32 pm
I would like to know how you are adjusting your clutch operating assembly. You should have your cable adjusters slacked off, then screw in the clutch operating assy. adjuster stud till you just feel a slight resistance and then back off about 1/8-1/4 turn then lock down nut. Adjust cable at gear box front cover housing and then fine adjust on handlebar if you have an adjuster there. Make sure your cable is well lubed and is routed correctly so it doesn't bind. I would say the way it is working now it might not last long. If none of this works you may have to take your clutch apart and make sure all parts are correct. I think you mentioned in a post that you had to grind your clutch rods down a bit. I have worked on both 4 & 5 spd clutch assy.'s and never had to grind or mod a thing.
Title: Re: Clutch hub/basket play?
Post by: AgentX on July 16, 2012, 05:00:55 pm
I would like to know how you are adjusting your clutch operating assembly. You should have your cable adjusters slacked off, then screw in the clutch operating assy. adjuster stud till you just feel a slight resistance and then back off about 1/8-1/4 turn then lock down nut. Adjust cable at gear box front cover housing and then fine adjust on handlebar if you have an adjuster there. Make sure your cable is well lubed and is routed correctly so it doesn't bind. I would say the way it is working now it might not last long. If none of this works you may have to take your clutch apart and make sure all parts are correct. I think you mentioned in a post that you had to grind your clutch rods down a bit. I have worked on both 4 & 5 spd clutch assy.'s and never had to grind or mod a thing.

---------------
EDIT:  Disregard my whining for now...I think my "clutch drag" is actually some other issue, and I can get the clutch properly adjusted.

Man, there's a lot to learn.
------

That's how I'm adjusting it.

Was the same on 2 separate transmissions (same basket/plates, different center), irrespective of clutch rod.

The mechanic at the shop took two clutch rods, seemingly factory-made, right out of the transmission on another bike in the shop.  They were shorter than the other rods which the parts department had in stock, and they put the clutch pad in the proper position when used with my 5-spd.  He told me there were four models of the 5-spd transmission, and this one (the latest, I think he said) used different rods.  (side note:  if that is not true, it would not be the first time someone has slung a bunch of BS at me regarding Enfields over here...but in this case it seemed demonstrably true.  Having no ability to verify this on my own, I remain agnostic on the issue.)

With the longer rods, the clutch pad stood too far out from the basket, holding the outer cover in a position far past where it could engage the posts on the clutch hub.  (ie, floating in the air, impossible to reassemble the clutch.)

Strange, I know, but true.  And I can't think of any potential adjustment which could have remedied it; as it stands now, even with the two shorter clutch rods, the adjuster in the throw-out arm is backed nearly as far out as it can go while still allowing the outer cover plate to bolt back on.  It's just a hollow tube through the transmission... nothing else I can see could make these longer rods fit.

But since it was the same with the other transmission, I tend to think the cause lies somewhere else.  And I'll give it another full adjustment, just in case.