Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: suitcasejefferson on June 23, 2021, 01:03:15 am
-
I first discovered the Royal Enfield motorcycle back around 2002, and was immediately attracted to it because it was literally a brand new vintage bike. Not a new "modern" bike made to look like an old bike, but the real thing. The internet was not what it was today, but I was able to find out that these bikes were being bought and ridden by guys like me, who actually wanted a real vintage bike, and everything that went with it, NOT one of those new "retrobikes" with all the electronic technowhizbang technology. Life happens, and it was not until 10 years later that I was able to buy one. By then the original design had been compromised by electronic and emissions garbage, like EFI and a cat con exhaust. I quickly replaced that crap with a vintage carburetor and an aftermarket non cat con exhaust. The rest of the bike was still pretty vintage. But I found that the attitude of owners had changed. They mostly went from those who wanted the real deal to those who those who actually liked the computerized mess that the bikes had become, they now saw them more like the Japanese retrobikes, old on the outside, mostly electronics and computer circuits on the inside. Royal Enfield owners went from vintage bike lovers to "modern bike" lovers in 10 years.
I bought my Royal Enfield as a replacement for the real deal 1966 Triumph Bonneville I had back in the mid '80s, because the price on those had gone through the roof. But it seems that nobody sees the Royal Enfield that way anymore. I guess I'm going to have to come up with the money and buy a real deal vintage British bike, whatever it costs.
-
I first discovered the Royal Enfield motorcycle back around 2002, and was immediately attracted to it because it was literally a brand new vintage bike. Not a new "modern" bike made to look like an old bike, but the real thing. The internet was not what it was today, but I was able to find out that these bikes were being bought and ridden by guys like me, who actually wanted a real vintage bike, and everything that went with it, NOT one of those new "retrobikes" with all the electronic technowhizbang technology. Life happens, and it was not until 10 years later that I was able to buy one. By then the original design had been compromised by electronic and emissions garbage, like EFI and a cat con exhaust. I quickly replaced that crap with a vintage carburetor and an aftermarket non cat con exhaust. The rest of the bike was still pretty vintage. But I found that the attitude of owners had changed. They mostly went from those who wanted the real deal to those who those who actually liked the computerized mess that the bikes had become, they now saw them more like the Japanese retrobikes, old on the outside, mostly electronics and computer circuits on the inside. Royal Enfield owners went from vintage bike lovers to "modern bike" lovers in 10 years.
I bought my Royal Enfield as a replacement for the real deal 1966 Triumph Bonneville I had back in the mid '80s, because the price on those had gone through the roof. But it seems that nobody sees the Royal Enfield that way anymore. I guess I'm going to have to come up with the money and buy a real deal vintage British bike, whatever it costs.
One gadget that I really wish my Bullet had was a trip meter. I suspect that trip meters were something that were on bikes even 70 years ago.
-
Hey Suitcase- as much as I'm sure we'll keep butting heads on the Carb /EFI, I get where your coming from. In both the MG and Austin Healey clubs too many are upgrading to Discs, Alternators, Inertia Seatbelts (whats a seatbelt my MGA asks) Next they will want to retro fit airbags 🤣🤣
-
I like my pre-units for the reasons SuitcaseJefferson enumerated. The Indian R.E. riding contingent is a source for daily-driving inspiration, they have been doing it for 60+ years. Hitchcocks makes ownership of an actual vintage doppelganger painless & affordable. I am constantly impressed at the practical nature of these machines. They tell you in metal that the designers rode these machines themselves. If you doubt, fixing a rear flat with that lift-up subframe and QD hub easily dispels that. I've learned a lot about old-school maintenance and reliably starting a big single from wrenching on my Enfields. I've been privileged to correspond with many subject matter experts that are also hard core enthusiasts. I have no performance aspirations for my own hardware, but I can appreciate the folks that have tuned & fettled these old beasts to amaving levels. Getting to know my Royal Enfield Bullets has been a very special and rewarding part of my life.
New bikes are great, new technology is amazing. But learning to live with & understand an old tech machine is singularly satisfying.
-
I first discovered the Royal Enfield motorcycle back around 2002, and was immediately attracted to it because it was literally a brand new vintage bike. Not a new "modern" bike made to look like an old bike, but the real thing. The internet was not what it was today, but I was able to find out that these bikes were being bought and ridden by guys like me, who actually wanted a real vintage bike, and everything that went with it, NOT one of those new "retrobikes" with all the electronic technowhizbang technology. Life happens, and it was not until 10 years later that I was able to buy one. By then the original design had been compromised by electronic and emissions garbage, like EFI and a cat con exhaust. I quickly replaced that crap with a vintage carburetor and an aftermarket non cat con exhaust. The rest of the bike was still pretty vintage. But I found that the attitude of owners had changed. They mostly went from those who wanted the real deal to those who those who actually liked the computerized mess that the bikes had become, they now saw them more like the Japanese retrobikes, old on the outside, mostly electronics and computer circuits on the inside. Royal Enfield owners went from vintage bike lovers to "modern bike" lovers in 10 years.
I bought my Royal Enfield as a replacement for the real deal 1966 Triumph Bonneville I had back in the mid '80s, because the price on those had gone through the roof. But it seems that nobody sees the Royal Enfield that way anymore. I guess I'm going to have to come up with the money and buy a real deal vintage British bike, whatever it costs.
On the other hand, I bet you're loving having a crankshaft supported by actual bearings, no sludge trap to worry about, not having to decoke the head or replace valve guides every other year. No primary chain adjustment, brakes that stop when you need stopping, a clutch you don't have to fettle to work proper and lights that you can ride safely at night with. Not to mention the electric start and being relatively oil leak free.
I hear what you're saying. I'd love a 60's 250 Continental GT and a flat tank 20's Douglas, for the reasons you describe. But I'm also OK with the convenience of the modern.
To each their own and all that.
-
I'm sure I'm not alone in finding the C5 as the perfect compromise.... getting back on bikes I went GSX 750F (air cooled carby) via Kawasaki Versys to Enfield , and went to look at an Iron Barrel at ONLY W.A dealer, but even they struggled to get to fire and run smoothly (same dealer who returned C5 from 1st service with an oil leak -nipped "O" ring!) si ti rest ride a bike that started and settled, had a front disc, and character and out came the cheque book. YES to each THEIR own and that's all that matter apart from staying upright and safe👍
-
When I was young, I had to wrench on my bikes. Dealers would charge an hour what I earned a week.
Now, I just want to push the button and ride.
I don't want to be faffing with points, tickling carbs, getting the choke to the 'sweet spot' or kicking the piston into position. It's a bike, not a new girlfriend!
-
When I was young, I had to wrench on my bikes. Dealers would charge an hour what I earned a week.
Now, I just want to push the button and ride.
I don't want to be faffing with points, tickling carbs, getting the choke to the 'sweet spot' or kicking the piston into position. It's a bike, not a new girlfriend!
And when I was young I had time to wrench on my bikes. Now I have very little spare time, so I'm with you. I just want to get on the bike, push the button and ride.
-
"On the other hand, I bet you're loving having a crankshaft supported by actual bearings, no sludge trap to worry about, not having to decoke the head or replace valve guides every other year. No primary chain adjustment, brakes that stop when you need stopping, a clutch you don't have to fettle to work proper and lights that you can ride safely at night with. Not to mention the electric start and being relatively oil leak free."
All great points, but you forgot to include the hydraulic lifters. Surely he's loving those as well.
-
By then the original design had been compromised by electronic and emissions garbage, like EFI and a cat con exhaust. I quickly replaced that crap with a vintage carburetor and an aftermarket non cat con exhaust.
About 90% of RE's products are purchased in India, where the government certainly seems more serious about advancing and enforcing emissions standards than the US government has been over the last couple of decades. India policemen also fine riders for noisy exhausts. There were plenty in India complaining about RE's switch to EFI when it first appeared, but there's really no other choice for a bike maker who wants to sell machines in a regulated environment.
The evolution was not a matter of what people want, it was a matter of what regulations would allow. Even if it was primarily market driven, consider that the average rider in India is about 35 years younger than the average forum member. It's hard to imagine those youngsters being attracted to technology from a generation or two before they were born. I'd bet that not many of those youngsters spend their time in text based forums, whose format was already well defined by the late 80s. Maybe try Reddit, if you want their views? There's probably something even newer, that I haven't heard of.
For insight, you might want to think about the situation of Harley Davidson, whose management apparently felt compelled to follow market demand over the last few decades, whose rider has an average age over 50, and whose market is steadily shrinking, and compare that with the situation of Royal Enfield, who has seen incredible expansion, and whose rider has an average age estimated at around 26 years.
-
The youngsters can chase their own pleasures. Despite its archaic foibles and regular fettling requirements, which I generally check off in the "Pleasurable" column, in the end I ask myself, "Would I trade my old 'Iron Belly' for a newer-and-improved UCE or Meteor, even with a beefier engine?" That would be a hard "Nope." For a 650? Hmmm... That's a trickier one. But I suspect I'd still wanna hold on to my more "elemental" primitivo. It has its own humble virtues, you see. And if the kiddies don't quite appreciate them, that's just fine and just as it should be. I'm also the only guy hanging around with that zenlike stare at the few remaining pinball machines one can still find in those arcades at the beach, and even have an old '70s electro-mechanical "Pro Football" one in the rec room. But I wish them well in their Quest for the Sacred Toothbrush of Mördör, or whatever the hell they enjoy.
-
Agreed Bilge - with a C5 I sit between the 2 quite different bikes, seriously looked at a 650 GT especially the chrome, and realised not for me, but fortunately having 1 1/2 classic cars (restoring the Healey) I have more than enough oil, fuel, carbs and bruised knuckles too satisfy me 👍😀
-
One way to take the pulse of Royal Enfield riders, might be to check out the new " #TimelessClassic campaign" SOCIAL MEDIA program that Royal Enfield kicked off a few weeks ago. You can even post your own story, along with pictures or video content.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/auto/bikes/royal-enfield-initiates-timeless-classic-campaign/articleshow/83780613.cms
What do you think? Is posting a video on social media TALKING about their passion for their Royal Enfield Classic 350 more important to the vast majority of Royal Enfield riders than having a carburetor, or points ignition? Is being able to post pictures of themselves online perhaps more important to these riders than possessing ANY knowledge of the inner workings of their machine?
I'd suggest that if you want an answer to your question about "what happened to RE riders", go and see.
-
Interesting Axeman, but also maybe ask apart from this forum what interest / involvement do people have with "social media"? personally I read Crash Net F1 and G.P. but rarely post (fun watching the Rossi & Marquez camps abuse the shit out of each other!) and had Facebook (now deleted) when a friend did a world trip and used for updates. I'm very much the prefer a chat and coffee at the "Chrome Bumpers"....Old Farts talking life, experience and shit🤣
-
apart from this forum what interest / involvement do people have with "social media"?
Generally, I detest social media. MeWe isn't too bad though.
I'm on a Reliant forum and a ZX Spectrum forum pretty regularly.
-
Interesting Axeman, but also maybe ask apart from this forum what interest / involvement do people have with "social media"?
My point would be that, if the original post was genuinely asking about the mindset of Royal Enfield Owners and Riders, since 9 of every 10 of this group lives in India, and very few indeed participate in this forum, posing this question here is not going to provide much insight. I'd guess the average age of our forum members is over 50, the other Moto forum I participate in, where a survey on age was taken, had a result over 60 years from the 70 or so people who responded. Text forums are a mature form of social media.
Young people have other forms they prefer, like TikTok. Average age of moto riders in India was surveyed at 26, perhaps RE riders are older, it's an expensive bike there.
Nevertheless, asking ourselves what WE like, isn't going to tell us anything about what the young, non-english speaking, average RE rider, likes and values.
I have to point out that removing a throttle body, and replacing it with a carburetor, does NOT remove electronic and emissions garbage, it only removes the TPS sensor, and maybe a MAP sensor if the bike was equipped. The ECU is still there, controlling the ignition, and operating in a constant error condition. If the ECU fails, the bike is still disabled. The right way to do this conversion, in my opinion, is to also replace the stator and rotor, pull the ECU and any other sensors, and add an ignition controlling device. I calculated that selling off the usable electronic components would cover the cost of the conversion with $100 or so profit, neglecting all the labor.
RE's #TimelessClassic campaign got over 5000 responses in a few weeks, and respondents took the considerable effort of posting pictures or video. Suitcase's post here got 8 responses, requiring only a few minutes of typing. Which group should RE management be more concerned with listening to, if they want to sell more motorcycles?
-
All Good Points Axman - here in Perth Western Australia Just about to have 2nd coffee, 90 min dog was and continue stripping a Healey Shell 👍( 2 into one does go) and until checking forum's for F1 & Moto GP that's it, NOTHING of interest to R.E - so spot on🤔
-
The market demographics have shifted.
Pretty much nobody anymore has knowledge and skills to work on a motorcycle, especially younger people.
The market now is a consumer "appliance" type market in which users buy something and rely on others to take care of it for them. Much like the modern car market.
The days when people actually knew how to do anything for themselves is long gone.
-
I do understand the get on, push the starter button and ride thing, especially for older riders. I have a couple of those kinds of bikes myself. I'm 62 and partially disabled. But I have a love for vintage bikes, and cars as well, that newer stuff just doesn't satisfy. I enjoy tinkering with carburetors, and points, adjusting chains, adjusting valves (yes, I wish the UCE had adjustable valves) I even prefer drum brakes. Many of the problems people complain about with vintage bikes had nothing to do with the design or technology, it was caused by poor quality. Points can go for years and tens of thousands of miles without needing any maintenance. So can carburetors. I have seen modern bikes with 25K mile valve adjustment intervals. Modern O-ring chains can last 10K+ miles with almost no maintenance. And I have owned a few "modern" bikes, including a Honda Nighthawk 250, with a drum front brake that worked far better than the Enfields disc. I have no problem with electric starters. The Model T got an electric starter in 1919. My "get on and go" bikes still have carburetors, and no computers. Just because a bike uses old technology doesn't mean that it requires constant maintenance or breaks down all the time.
I see vintage bikes as being a completely different hobby than modern bikes. I have a 2016 Honda Rebel 250 that uses 1970s technology except for the CDI, and it is stone reliable. Far more so than many high tech new bikes. Royal Enfield was the last place you could get a brand new vintage bike, and now that's gone. The end of an era. There is no longer a single new bike out there that I would buy. And I don't see a single person wishing that they still made the old iron barrel. What happened to the people who bought those bikes because they were a vintage design?
As for government regulations, yes, they are slowly destroying everything. They are taking away everything that makes life worth living.
-
The market demographics have shifted.
Pretty much nobody anymore has knowledge and skills to work on a motorcycle, especially younger people.
The market now is a consumer "appliance" type market in which users buy something and rely on others to take care of it for them. Much like the modern car market.
The days when people actually knew how to do anything for themselves is long gone.
Unfortunately you are right. And I find that really sad. I have to wonder how long it will be before people will be completely helpless. They won't even know how to ride a bike. More and more motorcycles are coming with automatic transmissions. Especially Hondas.
-
They won't even know how to ride a bike.
With the advent of Segway I'm surprised we even have to put our feet down ;D
-
Thank God for the DEMISE of Segway🤣
I volunteer at a Motor Museum and it's SADLY laughable to listen to some of the Parent to Child conversations.....Soon visits will become a wheel counting and bhp exercise. My neighbour over the road, in retirement and having NEVER ridden decided to buy a HONDA "Harley" AUTO.........ride it once and went back to his Audi T.T. his son recently sold it as part of the estate...white goods for the retirees with money....
-
Unfortunately you are right. And I find that really sad. I have to wonder how long it will be before people will be completely helpless. They won't even know how to ride a bike. More and more motorcycles are coming with automatic transmissions. Especially Hondas.
Thats how i feel about drones. Im a RC glider builder/flyer. I can build with wood,foam and composite, fix crashes, make tools and moulds etc. The new hobbyist buys a drone in a box,, charges it and goes flying. If it crashes they buy another one. I can't abide them but do you know what? Drones (and the crap they fly) are making sure the hobby continues into the future. I don't like them but there's that silver lining.
Sometimes, to understand other people's motivations you have to walk a mile in their shoes. If you still don't like them, at least you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
-
A 60's Honda gives the best of both worlds. Old technology that was made to the best standards. Once sorted, the bikes are very low maintenance.
-
A 60's Honda gives the best of both worlds. Old technology that was made to the best standards. Once sorted, the bikes are very low maintenance.
That's kind of where we're at with the RE. I don't imagine a vintage Honda will meet the op's need for difficult ownership, user involvement whatever you call it.
-
A 60's Honda gives the best of both worlds. Old technology that was made to the best standards. Once sorted, the bikes are very low maintenance.
Yeah, but personally I find those 60's Honda's, particularly with the stamped frames, to be aesthetically challenged. The RE UCE is for me the best of both worlds - beautiful looks and character of old British stuff without any of the hassle. I've had dozens of old Triumphs, BSA's etc and just grew tired of the leaks, flaky carbs and electrics, etc. I honestly don't ever want to own one again. But my C5 is just the berries...
-
What an interesting discussion.
The bikes RE produce today are of course restricted by regulation rather more than demand (they must have ABS, meet emissions standards and so on), so the arguments about carburettors and so on are somewhat fatuous.
I like older bikes (and cars), but I would not reply on one from the 70s for everyday transport. One of my bikes is a 1976 Suzuki 2 stroke: kick start, carburettor, points ignition, cable operated drum brakes, feeble lights... produces as much smoke as the rest of the town put together). I enjoy getting it out of the bike shed 3 or 4 times per year, but whenever I do there is some fettling to do and even then the brakes and lights are not really safe (although they work exactly as they did in 1976). Times, and our expectations, move on. My Triumph (2006 Scrambler, so electronic ignition, disc brakes, electric start, halogen lights but still carburettors) and my RE (2018 Pegasus - electronic ignition, disc brakes, ABS, electric start, halogen lights and EFI) are both much better bikes, are reliable and are safe on modern roads. I enjoy being able to leave either of them for months, then turn the key and they start, the clutches and gearboxes work properly, no fluids have leaked and the brakes still work properly.
There is nothing wrong (in my humble opinion) with a bike like the RE that looks like it might possibly have been made in 1978 from a distance, but is reliable and safe.
:-)
Alan
-
+1 Othen....my garage has side by side a 56 MGA and a 12 Can-am, and whilst the MGA is a great starter it's still a choke, crank and fingers crossed on batteries... whilst can am is ignition, mode button (safety) and INSTANT on the starter. Like the ABS, but could do without the other potential electronics open to gremlins....reckon the 2014R.E is perfect
-
+1 Othen....my garage has side by side a 56 MGA and a 12 Can-am, and whilst the MGA is a great starter it's still a choke, crank and fingers crossed on batteries... whilst can am is ignition, mode button (safety) and INSTANT on the starter. Like the ABS, but could do without the other potential electronics open to gremlins....reckon the 2014R.E is perfect
I agree. One of my cars is a 1980 Volvo 244 auto. As far as usable historic cars is concerned I think that is the zenith. It is late enough to have disc brakes all round, servo assistance, PAS and proper halogen lights, but the only electronics on the whole car is the quartz clock (actually the car does have stand alone electronic ignition from a later 240 - which helps the reliability a great deal).
As far as bikes are concerned my Triumph 900 twin is just about he peak of development: the last year Triumph fitted carburettors. My Royal Enfield (2018 Pegasus) is probably a little too far advanced (EFI and ABS) - but I still really like it :-)
-
I owned two Honda CB305 Super Hawks, 1964 and a 1968 models. I still think they look nice. The early bike was wonderful, it had a top speed of 100 mph and got 75 mpg on the freeway. The '68 bike was a real dud. Top speed was only 85 mph and it vibrated badly, so I replaced it with a 1969 Yamaha 350. Attached is a photo of my first Super Hawk.
-
. The early bike was wonderful, it had a top speed of 100 mph and got 75 mpg on the freeway.
This has confused & annoyed me for years.
I have a 1969 car that fits 4 people, does 80mph and 60mpg.
Cars & bikes haven't developed at all well since then.
-
Recently found a motorcycle magazine from the 50s. All the adverts pushed the facts that their new models were more economical than the previous years model and were lighter and faster. There was even a picture of a Royal Enfield that looked just like my 2018 500cc Bullet.
Modern bikes can claim to be faster than the previous model, but they weigh a ton and guzzle juice like it's going out of fashion. My RE does 110 miles per UK gallon, top speed is somewhere around 80mph and when it falls over I can pick it up. The electronic gubbins enable it to start, run smoothly and keep working efficiently. The disc brakes enable it to stop, almost quickly (!). It doesn't leak oil (yes I have checked there is still oil in the engine). OK, fair enough, I binned the horrible, incredibly long, exhaust and replaced it with a short megaphone, it now runs better and sounds amazing.
The electronics even meant I didn't have to reset everything for the new exhaust - it did it for me.
I'm 69, I can still work on the engine when i need or want to, but riding what looks like a classic without all the associated hassle is great. Someone recently complimented me on the wonderful restoration and said it must be worth a fortune now it looks brand new - bless!
-
I rode a variety of motorcycles in the 1970s and 1980s that had carbs and points, mostly from Italy.
I never had any problem whatsoever using them as daily transportation. I didn't even own a car for almost 7 years, and rode my Ducati exclusively to work and college and everywhere else I went, including interstate travel, winter riding, and going places far from any servicing location.
I really don't grasp all this talk about unreliability of those kinds of bikes. They were just fine.
-
1/2 agree Ace, today's seem to have pretty much all issues sorted, but in the 70's they ALL had something to stay on TOP OF.... Brits apart from oil leaks could be Bastards to start whilst Maps were 1st kick. We had old Brita that vibrated bits off so standard to have a 1/2" spanner in the jeans. Mates wouldn't take their Guzzi or Laverda's out in the rain due to the electrics, (my mate had an ALFA who's dash lights needed a thunmo to work) and even BMW having points front & low could have issues in English winters (Just like minis) and mates were always rebuilding early Jap multi's - pushing / revving too far...... They weren't BAD, but.....
Today I'm more into classic cars, and on the runs involving 30-40 mixed cars, we all know which and what the issues will be, and that's part of it😀 but when it's raining, or VERY HOT I take the MX5/Miatta as I know there won't be an issue.
-
I rode a variety of motorcycles in the 1970s and 1980s that had carbs and points, mostly from Italy.
I never had any problem whatsoever using them as daily transportation. I didn't even own a car for almost 7 years, and rode my Ducati exclusively to work and college and everywhere else I went, including interstate travel, winter riding, and going places far from any servicing location.
I really don't grasp all this talk about unreliability of those kinds of bikes. They were just fine.
But riddle me this : when those bikes were new, were they marketed as the latest and modernest new development on the market? I think they were...
And do you think the buyers of those brand new up to date cutting edge '70' s bikes think to themselves "this is a nice bike but I wish it had a manual oil pump and acetylene headlamp. That'd be just great". I doubt it.
Also, you're a better than average mechanic and know how to make those things work properly. Not everyone is that good.
-
I rode a variety of motorcycles in the 1970s and 1980s that had carbs and points, mostly from Italy.
I never had any problem whatsoever using them as daily transportation. I didn't even own a car for almost 7 years, and rode my Ducati exclusively to work and college and everywhere else I went, including interstate travel, winter riding, and going places far from any servicing location.
I really don't grasp all this talk about unreliability of those kinds of bikes. They were just fine.
With great respect Ace, I think you have rose-tinted spectacles and have forgotten how bad bikes were back in the day. One of my current bikes is a 1976 Suzuki 2 stroke - I ride it every now and then just to remind myself how dangerous the lights and the cable operated drum brakes are. The bike always needs some fettling to get it running properly - and certainly I'd say that Suzuki was much better built than any Italian bike of the period.
Bikes from the 1970s were not just fine (by today's standards), they were unreliable, messy, poorly built and had dangerous brakes and lights. That does not mean they were (and are) not fun.
:-) Alan
-
Gizzo....🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
-
With great respect Ace, I think you have rose-tinted spectacles and have forgotten how bad bikes were back in the day. One of my current bikes is a 1976 Suzuki 2 stroke - I ride it every now and then just to remind myself how dangerous the lights and the cable operated drum brakes are. The bike always needs some fettling to get it running properly - and certainly I'd say that Suzuki was much better built than any Italian bike of the period.
Bikes from the 1970s were not just fine (by today's standards), they were unreliable, messy, poorly built and had dangerous brakes and lights. That does not mean they were (and are) not fun.
:-) Alan
That is true looking back with what we now own and ride. But back then we all lived with the mechanical and electrical issues because most of us grew up with the skills and knowledge of how to fix and repair those vehicles. And when you had those interests, knowledge and skills they allowed you to get a good paying job for the rest of your life.
Now few young people have those skills or are interested in working on mechanical devices and getting their hands greasy. All of that interest and skill is now directed toward computers and what they can do to keep them entertained and later to provide a good-paying job. So cars and motorcycles (and a lot of other stuff) now need to be mostly foolproof, or at least disposable when you have enough money from having a high-tech job to buy something new when what you have breaks. Why go to the time and trouble to fix something that breaks when you can just go out and buy another new cheap Chinese product and toss the old one into the landfill? :(
-
So True Richard😣 when lecturing, in Photo Business Class, for fun I'd get students to put their hands up if they had a mobile...and leave them up as I counted upwards on qty owned.... on average an early 20's student had owned 6! around the same as me since 1986! (1986 NEC 9A- 2020 Samsung) when asked why.....because they COULD 😣😣😣 image, peer pressure....yet complaining about buying paper to print images, wanting everything assessed "On Screen" NO 😡 WAY
-
With great respect Ace, I think you have rose-tinted spectacles and have forgotten how bad bikes were back in the day. One of my current bikes is a 1976 Suzuki 2 stroke - I ride it every now and then just to remind myself how dangerous the lights and the cable operated drum brakes are. The bike always needs some fettling to get it running properly - and certainly I'd say that Suzuki was much better built than any Italian bike of the period.
I used to have a high mileage Suzuki T500 2 stroke twin from around that time and never had any problem with it at all. The twin leading shoe front brake wasn't great but it was good enough - and unlike disc brakes at that time it worked in the wet. The 35W headlight wasn't great and neither were it's handling or ground clearance but I had a lot of fun on it and in the couple of years I had it before upgrading to a GT500 I don't think a single thing went wrong with it.
-
I'm scratching my head trying to think of any of my past bikes that needed constant fettling...
RG125 went all over the country
RG250 went to different countries
RG500 (x2) never any problems
CBR1000F (900 miles a week for 6 months)
750 Katana
...and lots more. None of them gave me any hassle.
It's why I'll be selling the RE - I don't want hassle. I've got old cars for that ;D
-
I used to have a high mileage Suzuki T500 2 stroke twin from around that time and never had any problem with it at all. The twin leading shoe front brake wasn't great but it was good enough - and unlike disc brakes at that time it worked in the wet. The 35W headlight wasn't great and neither were it's handling or ground clearance but I had a lot of fun on it and in the couple of years I had it before upgrading to a GT500 I don't think a single thing went wrong with it.
My memories of various Honda, Suzuki and BSA bikes in the late 70s and 80s are different. Lots of pushing bikes home, quite a bit if fettling to get bikes running, frequent electrical problems (mostly when it rained), scary brakes, feeble lights and terrifying tyres. I suppose I must have just been much less fortunate than yourself.
I still enjoyed motorbiking then - and still do today.
In contrast: I bought my 2006 Triumph Scrambler new (I was living in Virginia at the time, but liked it so much I shipped it back to the UK at the end of my tour). I look after it myself (it is simple enough to do that): apart from tyres, brakes and fluids nothing else has needed changing - and nothing whatsoever has gone wrong in 15 years:-).
(https://i.imgur.com/dZOCjwn.jpg)
:-)
-
My 1971 oil-in-the-frame Triumph Bonneville looked really nice but was mechanically a compete piece of crap, as were my 1962 Vespa 125 and 1963 Lambretta 150 scooters. The 1969 Garelli 125 wasn't anything to brag about, either. However all of my Japanese motorcycles were pretty decent and reliable, other than the 1963 Yamaha YD3, which couldn't keep running for more than 50 miles without fouling one of its spark plugs. Ah, the good old days. ;)
-
My 71 Bonnie was wonderful and kept running despite all my messing.
My Honda 50 never let me down, my Triumph 5TA needed a bit of fettling, but even with a 6 volt system kept going, my 1968 Bonnie got written off by a wannna be racer in a Mini, then the 5TA again, my 71 Bonnie (see above), then a Honda Firestorm got written off by an elderly Gent, a second Firestorm that eventually exceeded my reaction time. First Honda 650 Deauville, written off by a juvenile scroat in a hot hatch, second 650 Deauville, part exchanged for a 700 Deauville which was brilliant.
My one foray into Italian exotica was a Ducati Monster 600, what a pile of cr*p. The slightest hint of damp weather and it died. Stuck with the Deau 700, then sold that and got the Enfield. Happy happy, it starts, runs and stops when I put the brakes on.
Good old British (Indian) workmanship.
-
My memories of various Honda, Suzuki and BSA bikes in the late 70s and 80s are different. Lots of pushing bikes home, quite a bit if fettling to get bikes running, frequent electrical problems (mostly when it rained), scary brakes, feeble lights and terrifying tyres. I suppose I must have just been much less fortunate than yourself.
I never had an old British bike and have had very few electrical problems - coincidence? 'Joe Lucas - inventor of darkness' ;) Condenser failed (under warranty) on my first bike leading to a holed piston - Honda CB125-T2. CDI unit played up on my Suzuki GT500. My Triumph Daytona 955i had an intermittent starting problem (I suspect the clutch lever switch) shortly before it was stolen, but I can't remember any other electrical problems - all bikes fine in all weathers. So far so good with my first Royal Enfield - Oh I forgot: Front brake light handlebar lever switch stopped working after a few hundred miles. Fixed by flushing out excess factory grease with WD-40.
-
I rode a variety of motorcycles in the 1970s and 1980s that had carbs and points, mostly from Italy.
I never had any problem whatsoever using them as daily transportation. I didn't even own a car for almost 7 years, and rode my Ducati exclusively to work and college and everywhere else I went, including interstate travel, winter riding, and going places far from any servicing location.
I really don't grasp all this talk about unreliability of those kinds of bikes. They were just fine.
Unreliability is just them talking from all the years of marketing they've succumbed to. I was once on a car club drive where everyone was running electronic ignition and I was the one being laughed at for still using good old points. There were a few breakdowns that day. None from me. One guy even had this ignition fail and I offered him a spare set of points I keep for emergencies, which I've never used. He plain and simple refused to take my help, muttering words like "I won't put that old shit in my car". I nearly died of laughter. Look at your car, look at all our cars. We're all driving old shit. Hahhahhahahaha.
The ignorance and arrogance was hilarious. So while some other members all had ideas, and stood around waiting for a tow truck with him, I said "Sorry lads, there's enough chiefs here that know what they're doing. I'm just in the way." and I drove off with my NOS points that still run to this day.
-
Well known in Classic British Car Clubs that replacing points with after market electronic ignition gives short term gains (starting etc..) but also MORE prone to FAIL... that said Lucas in their wisdom on 50's-60's cars ran EVERYTHING through the ignition switch leading them to weld themselves together 😣 easy fix, add relays....
-
I think the 70's motorcycle were a watershed for many of us. At 15 and only allowed a moped I was pillion on my brothers BSA 500 Twin and it was always the brit bikes that had issues, he moved to a Honda CB500 twin whilst I went Suzuki GTS 185 (due to insurance rating & 250 limit) followed by a Kwaka Mach1 whose only issues was handling like a pair of hinges, and a middle cylinder head that used to collect rain until it shorted & became a twin! Weekly club runs on Jap bikes and NEVER an issue between any of us excepting punctures! Even a mates C.Z was reliable!
-
My 60's/70's bikes (mostly British) weren't unreliable in use. It's just that they took a lot of TLC to keep them that way. At this point in my life I'd rather spend my discretionary time on other pursuits.
-
My 60's/70's bikes (mostly British) weren't unreliable in use. It's just that they took a lot of TLC to keep them that way. At this point in my life I'd rather spend my discretionary time on other pursuits.
Back in the 70's in my teems, we would pull down car engines and rebuild them for fun, bigger valves quarter or half race cam that sort of thing.
No longer my idea of a fun weekend. Changing the oil and plug and adjusting the chain on the Bullet is about the limit of what I could be bothered doing these days.
-
21yrs old, Fri night on way home from work in my MGB GT picked up an engine hoist, pulled motor, Sat had crank re-ground, Sun back together with oversized bearings, Mon dropped of hoist on way to work👍 Oh the days of youth 😀😀
-
Only owned one "European" bike before the Enfield. It was a mid-'50s BSA 250cc vertical single hard tail. Bought it in 1959 and rode it in February from PVD RI back to the ferry boat in Galilee and then to Block Island. I took it apart in the beacon shack of Southeast Light and just refurbished everything I could find to do from then until Spring. It was all just very basic stuff to do that I knew about already from being a lucky 1950s car and bike person. Painted all the tin bright comic book blue. Anyway, it ran perfect that whole summer and part of the Winter of 1959. Great little bike and I rode the shit out of it. I was transferred suddenly to Point Judith in January of 1960 and the little BSA is still somewhere on Block Island as far as I know. I just left it there as I was already in enough trouble to begin with and had no time to do ANYthing.
From then on I owned a lot of vehicles with points and condensers and carburetors and weird gremlin wiring, but I could always fix anything that came up. I didn't need a laptop or a code reader. My most "advanced electronic tool" might have been a strobe light.
I drove a 1959 Alfa Spider Veloce, that I bought shortly after I was "rushed" to Point Judith, from RI to Wyoming and back in 1960 on old two-lane blacktop Rt.30 (The Lincoln Highway). 1200cc, double overhead camshafts, dual two-barrel 40mm Weber carbs, Abarth, Marelli electrics, Michelin Xs, blah, blah, blah. Anyway. Generator shit the bed in some tiny town in Iowa on the way back. The town had a gas station, an EAT Cafe, a grain elevator and a Ford dealer. It was about 10 miles to the South off Rt. 30. I rebuilt the generator in the shop of the Ford dealer who welcomed me in because they were literally amazed at this EYETalian car ("Look at that Red Leather! My Lord!). GREAT people! I took the generator out, dissected it, turned the commutator down, cut the segments down with the edge of a broken hacksaw blade, MADE brushes from a pair of small in-stock brushes he found using sandpaper and shaped the commutator end with sandpaper wrapped around the commutator. Threw it all back together and it was fine all the way back to RI.
The guys there asked me to send them a postcard (remember postcards?) IF I ever got back to RI :) Of COURSE I did. I could fix almost ANYthing then. In a ditch on the side of the road if necessary. I'm glad I was lucky enough to live through the best of the car and motorcycle show of America. It's all over now, baby blue.
-
But could we do any of those repairs on most modern motorcycles nowadays? Now the engines are pretty reliable and rarely need to be fixed, but the computer programs that keep them running develop bugs and have to be updated by a franchised dealer with direct access to special tools and the factory computer. Plus, every change to a computer program must first be approved by a government regulatory agency and access to those programs are so restricted that even Russian hackers can't get into them. ::)
And things appear to be potentially a lot worse with electric motorcycles. While I have never had any problems with the three Zeros (although all of the larger 2012 Zeros like mine were recalled because they had a tendency to catch on fire when being recharged) that I have owned, many other owners complain about the computer programs that run their bikes going weird, having to be updated and the updates just make things worse. And many of those specialized electronic parts, motors and batteries are really expensive if they crap out and need to be replaced. Plus, many dealers know how to sell the bikes but their backrooms are not much more informed regarding how to fix them than their owners. How would you like to deal with those kind of issues? You can't fix it and you can't see how it works. It either does or it doesn't. Things are changing and not necessarily in a good way for us old farts. :(
-
Changed the brake fluid on my 2014 R.E C5 no issue.....2012 Can-am Spyder, NO CHANCE- A.B.S. Pump means dealer job using "buds" software!!!!! and it came back worse, back in to jack the front end high ENOUGH to bleed properly even though "buds" said it was fine 😡😡😡😡
-
21yrs old, Fri night on way home from work in my MGB GT picked up an engine hoist, pulled motor, Sat had crank re-ground, Sun back together with oversized bearings, Mon dropped of hoist on way to work👍 Oh the days of youth 😀😀
... we are all starting to sound like the 'four Yorkshiremen'... indeed we all have stories about fixing cars, bikes, houses, electrical equipment and other machines by the side of the road/down a hole/up a tree and so on from our youth :-). Sometimes the stories (mine included) get embellished and so improve a little over the years as well.
I still enjoy doing jobs like that, which is why I went out of my way to buy (and still have) a 1976 Suzuki and a 1980 Volvo 244. I have plenty of newer cars and bikes (like we all do) of course, and probably wouldn't even attempt a repair on some of them (certainly not on my Porsche for example), but I still enjoy taking the Suzuki and the Volvo apart - sometimes in order to find out why they are running so well :-)
The general tenet of this thread is that things used to be much easier to fix that they are now (which is generally true) but they were much less reliable (which is absolutely true, in spite of a few rose tinted glasses memories some of us have). This has been an interesting thread - it is good to remember things from back in the day.
Alan
-
Thx Alan - Just had to change my jeans after pissing myself as....
(1) I'm from Yorkshire (orig, now Aus)
(2) That's my Fave MONTY!
(3) YES it turned into a GREAT thread, Fun & no right or wrongs 👍😀😀
-
Thx Alan - Just had to change my jeans after pissing myself as....
(1) I'm from Yorkshire (orig, now Aus)
(2) That's my Fave MONTY!
(3) YES it turned into a GREAT thread, Fun & no right or wrongs 👍😀😀
Wonderful!
PS: And you try to tell the young people of today that ... they won't believe you :-)
-
Wonderful!
PS: And you try to tell the young people of today that ... they won't believe you :-)
I used to walk to school for 5 miles every day in my bare feet. At least that is what my dad told me. ;)
(And I didn't believe him, either. ;D )
-
FEET! You were lucky, I only had stumps, (o.k not P.C 🤣) and bloody chill-blanes from the SNOW 😣
-
Thank God we were blessed , we carried a 2x6 4ft plank to get across the cracks that usually formed from drought to get to school from March to June :-[ >:(
-
PLANKS...You were lucky, we had to burn All ours to stop us freezing to death...🤣
Ironically and not funny, was being a photographer during the miners strike and watching fences and floorboards being used just for THAT- SAD SAD Period and NO winners and lots of losers🤔
But back on Monty Python (and apologies to those who don't Get It) remember in Yorkshire "Every Sperm is Sacred" - Brilliant 🤣🤣🤣🤣
-
I'm pleased this thread has shot off on a Monty Python tangent... it was an amusing thread anyway, and this can only make it better :-)
Alan
-
But Remember Alan- were NOT Messiah's we're just Very Naughty Boy's 👍 and who must be a little R.E. sick (and wouldn't have it any other way 🤣)
-
Hey Suitcase- as much as I'm sure we'll keep butting heads on the Carb /EFI, I get where your coming from. In both the MG and Austin Healey clubs too many are upgrading to Discs, Alternators, Inertia Seatbelts (whats a seatbelt my MGA asks) Next they will want to retro fit airbags 🤣🤣
My '59 TR3 came with front discs and an alternator! No seatbelts though. But the market is awash with aftermarket options, which you're free to pick. My aftermarket choice was rack & pinion steering mod. I found the worm & screw original scary and difficult to keep maintained.
My view on this topic is each to their own. I won't force my view that my preferences are the only way that's right and anyone who tries to do that to me will get a sympathetic smile and a nod, before I completely ignore them.
-
Should have read the rest of the replies before I posted. I'm a very naughty boy. Enjoyed the 5 pages.
-
I've- if you have a TR3 your NOT a very naughty boy 👍 (had a TR3a in my youth). Hear where your coming from - my Healey with bent chassis is a 100/6 B4, but have just found a BT7 shell sitting in a panel beaters for 20yrs! so 2 into 1 👍 BT7 has discs & belts so they'll stay....and needs a new loom so will wire to allow alternator if an issue, but dynamo tested o.k and with latest regulator all should be good👍
-
What about changing the entire drive train to electric? I'm sure you classic car guys have heard talk of retrofits, and now there is buzz about complete aftermarket kits.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/electric-crate-motors-make-turning-your-gas-car-into-an-ev-easy
I've been generating solid models for most of my working life, and consider their presence in a tech. article, as akin to spotting the man behind the curtain in the wizard's palace, proclaiming "for suckers ONLY!", but it seems like this is almost certainly going to be an aftermarket availability relatively soon. Even the purists will be pricing these when gasoline is $22 / gallon, only sold in quarts and 1 gallon cans, in the paint department at ACE Hardware & Internet Cafe.
Going back to the original poster's issue with computers in his Royal Enfield; How will transitioning to electric propulsion affect the electronic content of vehicles? All the IC engine control and emissions stuff goes away, replaced by what is, in my opinion, a relatively simple 3 phase control system, but all the other electronic content stays, ABS, environmental control, entertainment and connectivity. The charging system, if integrated into the vehicle, is pretty complex, nevertheless, when listening to discussion of this topic during a radio report related to the vehicle chip shortage, I heard an expert stating that electronic content will decrease in electric vehicles. Mechanical complexity decreases by a significant factor.
Of course manufacturers will immediately add it all back, plus raise the pot, with self driving capability, which will almost certainly double electronic content over what's in internal combustion vehicles today.
This, I've read, is an average of 30 - 50 computers, ( as many as 100 in high end cars), and 60 to 100 sensors. (Kinda makes that Royal Enfield UCE single look like a block of wood.)
-
Axman- that could open up a can of worms 🤣 despite having just bought a Camry Hybrid, I believe there's a lot of P.C. smoke & mirrors, and generally accepted that currently E.V's are more damaging when orig build is also taken into account. A U.K report pointed out that only 50% of homes have off street parking, so requiring "leads" across pavements or fresh infrastructure. Those that do having parking, only 25% is for 2 cars despite most families having multiple vehicles! The average house wiring is not suitable for fast charging of multiple vehicles, and if lots of houses upgrade then the mains will also require an upgrade by governments who are reluctant to spend whilst quick to talk or put dates in place. Back to Oz, the distances are an issue and personally I think Toyota are backing the correct horse....HYDROGEN, Quick refill, and easily added to service stations compared to electric re-charge point.
Just my thoughts...
-
Axman- that could open up a can of worms 🤣 despite having just bought a Camry Hybrid, I believe there's a lot of P.C. smoke & mirrors, and generally accepted that currently E.V's are more damaging when orig build is also taken into account. A U.K report pointed out that only 50% of homes have off street parking, so requiring "leads" across pavements or fresh infrastructure. Those that do having parking, only 25% is for 2 cars despite most families having multiple vehicles! The average house wiring is not suitable for fast charging of multiple vehicles, and if lots of houses upgrade then the mains will also require an upgrade by governments who are reluctant to spend whilst quick to talk or put dates in place. Back to Oz, the distances are an issue and personally I think Toyota are backing the correct horse....HYDROGEN, Quick refill, and easily added to service stations compared to electric re-charge point.
Just my thoughts...
Personally, I'm buying neither the "more damaging", nor the "generally accepted". The articles I have seen alleging this sort of thing have appeared to me to be thinly veiled obfuscation, some traceable directly to corporate oil funding or published by their shills, conservative action organizations, and seeking only to prolong the profitable mass consumption of existing technology. All generally allege "damage" based on the assumption that lithium batteries will NOT be recycled, and none I've seen have made much attempt at all to quantify their allegations with any math. The more serious, science based articles I've seen, find in favor of the E-vehicles, as having a substantially lower lifetime "footprint".
The information I've seen on hydrogen powered vehicles has led me to think that generation of hydrogen via electrolysis consumes impractical amounts of energy, much more than will ever subsequently be recovered, and generation by conversion from biomass releases more total carbon than would come from burning energy-equivalent amounts of fossil fuels. As I see it, applying the same sort of "lifecycle analysis" that is being used to find fault with E-vehicles, hydrogen vehicles, seen from the wide view, seem to be worse offenders than conventional internal combustion vehicles. It's hard to understand how adding an additional one or two energy conversion steps could possibly be more efficient than generating the electricity once, in a large scale industrial optimized process, and then consuming it. Charging of batteries is the least efficient step, but still something like 25% more efficient than conversion of hydrogen in a fuel cell. All the rest of the system, the DC-pseudo AC conversion, the motor, the drive train, would be essentially identical in the both hydrogen fuel cell and battery powered vehicles. I could be totally wrong, but at this point hydrogen appears to me to be the last gasp of hope for those who want to preserve the muscle car lifestyle. I admit, it was fun, while it lasted. I personally enjoy steam engines, even more.
But my post didn't seek to valuate one energy source over another in any general way. I only posed the very narrow question; Which will require more digital electronic complexity, electrical or internal combustion powered vehicles?
-
Get your hydrogen here. This facility opposite Alice's Restaurant was finished being built two years ago, after three years being constructed. You get your choice of 700 bar or 350 bar pressures. However, it is still waiting for someone to lease the station and for its first customer. So far no takers. ::)
-
Nicely written Axman 👍 and sadly as individuals we probably will have little sway or input into the direction except for decision on what to buy - but still based on what is offered 🤔 On your orig thoughts, I was amazed to see both Porsche and BMW reducing functions on thier seats to reduce the number of "chips" from 30+ down to 20+!!!!!! and that's per seat! I will stick with using my hands😀 bu th if we did go back to steam at least we could have heated seats 🤣
-
Electronics also give more opportunities to be ripped of: At Chrome Bumpers (old farts talking cars & shit over coffee) one guy who's into old Chevy's has a new saloon one, went in for it's 3rd yearly service with a faulty reversing sensor. Sorry Sir 1mth out of warranty so AU$1,600....replied 50yrs without, I don't NEED it. This year car goes in again, comes back with reverse sensor working!
Called dealer....Yes service guy moving it around was pissed off with beep & light saying FAULT so changed relay and fuse! (what $25?) and No charge!
Dated a women in 2014 with an Audi R8 (amazing money in florists) anyway used to take my Esprit as her R8 was always throwing up codes, Inc $3,400 for an oxygen sensor on CAT!
-
This thread is developing into a really interesting one - nothing much to do with the original premis but I'm enjoying the latest tangent into EVs and so on.
My two pence worth is that I think Axman is wrong about the inertia against EV's being generated by current (if you excuse the pun) manufacturers. The elephant in the room for EV's is storing all those electrons one has ripped off their nuclei somewhere safe until one wants to use them - and so give EVs (and other machines) a good range. It strikes me that technology is unlikely to work out ways of pulling electrons out of atoms and putting them all together very much more efficiently than we do at the moment (just because of the physics) and so we will be limited to low ranges, long re-charging times and very heavy EVs.
We may just have to live with this as the legislators (not the manufacturers) mandate that combustion engines can no longer be used; change our lifestyles so no one has to travel more than 80 miles/day - in many ways go back to how we lived in the 1950s before motor car ownership became so widespread.
Good thread.
Alan
-
Get your hydrogen here. This facility opposite Alice's Restaurant was finished being built two years ago, after three years being constructed. You get your choice of 700 bar or 350 bar pressures. However, it is still waiting for someone to lease the station and for its first customer. So far no takers. ::)
Fascinating Richard - where abouts would Alice's Restaurant be?
Alan
-
Here in Oz there's trial on HYDROGEN trucks due to the long distances as the weight/energy/distance ratio makes batteries unsuitable as 35% of the load would be batteries. We allready have Hydrogen buses, and Hyundai just started government fleet car trials.
Australia maybe small in total numbers, but significant in that we are the 2nd highest purchaser of Ute's, and similar to U.S huge distances req RANGE not feel good emotions. With you Othen, it's the policies introduced leading where manufacturers go.....
-
Here in Oz there's trial on HYDROGEN trucks due to the long distances as the weight/energy/distance ratio makes batteries unsuitable as 35% of the load would be batteries. We allready have Hydrogen buses, and Hyundai just started government fleet car trials.
Australia maybe small in total numbers, but significant in that we are the 2nd highest purchaser of Ute's, and similar to U.S huge distances req RANGE not feel good emotions. With you Othen, it's the policies introduced leading where manufacturers go.....
There was a piece in the papers a few days ago about the UK government forcing HGVs away from combustion engines within the next 2 decades. I suppose it might just work here in the UK, it being a small place with a very high population density, but I'm still very circumspect. I really don't think we are going to work out how to store of piles of electrons away from their atomic nuclei, and so I believe battery technology will remain the limiting factor. My feeling is that EV will not be the solution for HGVs and plant machines, and so we will still have diesel trucks for at least the rest of my lifetime.
I suppose EVs might well work for domestic cars here in the UK (but it would be much more difficult elsewhere, like in Australia), particularly if people change their lifestyles and travel much less. Perhaps people start walking their children to school rather than driving them less than a mile each way (this happens at most primary schools now), maybe they get their shopping delivered rather than browsing the shelves at Tesco and maybe they take jobs closer to their homes (which might be lower paid - but the hit they take on their income would be offset by knowing they are saving the planet (yes, I did mean that in jest))?
I do rather think there will be lots of legacy combustion engine vehicles running for at least the rest of my lifetime (and that I'll keep owning quite a few of them - both cars and bikes). I suppose one day legislation (rather than cost) may force me to scrap my 3 cars and 4 bikes in order for someone to expend a huge amount of energy turning them into yogurt pots or 95" TVs.
A final thought: we are not short of energy in the world, that sun of ours will provide plenty of power for the next 4,000,000,000 years (whether we use it as fossil fuel, solar, wind or whatever matters not... as an energy source it is nearly inexhaustible). The elephant in the room is that human population is just too great (both here in the UK and globally). There are nearly 8,000,000,000 of us already, and that number grows by 83,000,000 annually (about the population of Germany extra each year, I think that is quite sobering). The problem is that over-population is a really unpopular thing to talk about politically (here in the UK and globally) - so governments and ordinary people concentrate on the trivia of recycling yogurt pots and driving EVs instead.
Ho hum :-)
-
Agreed 👍 and I think if the logistics in a relatively densely populated country, there's NO way in places like this. Now retired, but my run to work in Perth was 55km, so 110km without any detours or running around on errands......and due to loads of land we spread out not up! I'm 8km from nearest shop, 22km nearest BIG servo and wouldn't have it any other way and not likely to be breathing when the proverbial hits the fan 🤣🤣🤣
Interesting article re Oz becoming the dumping ground for combustion engined vehicles??? we allready get the "latest" models 1-2yrs after elsewhere ANYWAY 😀 due to market size, so any previous model right hand drives end up here......
-
Fascinating Richard - where abouts would Alice's Restaurant be?
Alan
Alice's Restaurant is a longtime motorcycle hangout (like the Rock Store in Southern California or the Ace Cafe in London) that has been around since the 1930's. It is located about 40 miles south of San Francisco at the intersection of State highways 35 and 84 in the Santa Cruz Mountains, directly west of Silicon Valley' in the small community of Sky Londa. The restaurant had a different name but around 1970, they changed their name to Alice's Restaurant after the anti-war song by Arlo Guthrie and the movie based on his song became popular during the late 1960's. It has no relation to the restaurant that the song was based on, which is located in New England. The just took advantage of the popularity of the name.
Alice's Restaurant during the 1970's and 1980's would see hundreds of motorcycle riders meet up there to kick tires during every weekend. But lately there have been more SUV driving families and very expensive sports car owners eating there than motorcycles, as motorcycle ownership has declined over the years. Attached are a few photos of the restaurant and one of the large parking lot across the street that used to be the major motorcycle parking location where bikes would park 3 deep, but now it is usually occupied by sports car and "tuner" car clubs, with motorcycles being pushed off to one end, across from the Skywood General Store - and the adjacent abandoned hydrogen fueling facility.
-
My two pence worth is that I think Axman is wrong about the inertia against EV's being generated by current (if you excuse the pun) manufacturers. The elephant in the room for EV's is storing all those electrons one has ripped off their nuclei somewhere safe until one wants to use them - and so give EVs (and other machines) a good range. It strikes me that technology is unlikely to work out ways of pulling electrons out of atoms and putting them all together very much more efficiently than we do at the moment (just because of the physics) and so we will be limited to low ranges, long re-charging times and very heavy EVs.
We may just have to live with this as the legislators (not the manufacturers) mandate that combustion engines can no longer be used; change our lifestyles so no one has to travel more than 80 miles/day - in many ways go back to how we lived in the 1950s before motor car ownership became so widespread.
I didn't say anything about vehicle range, and that objection was not the issue under discussion. I was responding to the suggestion that it was widely accepted that EVs were more environmentally damaging than IC vehicles. You misunderstood. No suggestion was made that the "current technology" sponsoring the obfuscating articles that make such claims has anything to do with vehicle makers. Oil companies would have a much greater interest in preserving the status quo of gasoline and diesel fuel consumption.
Primarily, I was trying to steer the conversation back towards what I perceived as the OP's original intent, digital electronic content of vehicles.
My personal attitude about vehicle range as a limitation is likely influenced by my personal transportation requirements, but these requirements are shared by a majority of the world's population. It's not hard to find statements such as that made in this article, entitled "95% of All Trips Could be Made in Electric Cars": https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1071688_95-of-all-trips-could-be-made-in-electric-cars-says-study If one's personal requirements place them in the 5%, or they believe that their usage category actually represents 25%, they should still be capable of acknowledging that the 95% or 75% exists.
But, your comments do bring up a salient issue. Why, is it, in the face of what everyday looks increasingly like a huge worldwide crisis, Fires, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, so called "100 year events" occurring on a yearly basis, do people believe that no "lifestyle change" should be required of them? Do we really expect that we are entitled to the same 12 mpg, 2 ton, chromed steel slab that our father owned? Are folks in technologically emerging countries not similarly entitled to burn their fair allotment of 350 gallons of refined oil yearly, even if their father and grandfather used donkeys or bicycles for personal transport?
I don't particularly like E-vehicles. I'd personally prefer to continue to enjoy IC engines, and I'd be even happier if external combustion engines were still in use, the aesthetic of steam, is even more appealing to me, despite its low efficiency. My interest is mainly educational. I want to stay informed on evolving technology. I do, however, see the transition to more energy efficient modes as being required by changes in our situation, and as inevitable. If this means that my expectation for personal transportation for the rest of my life needs to be a three speed bicycle, I will accept it gracefully.
-
" Why, is it, in the face of what everyday looks increasingly like a huge worldwide crisis, Fires, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, so called "100 year events" occurring on a yearly basis, do people believe that no "lifestyle change" should be required of them? "
The overall mantra is "Change is Bad". The subtext is "What I'm doing hasn't killed me yet, therefore it never will". My observation is that it takes about 20% attrition before people really start paying attention to a problem. Sadly, by the 20% mark things will already be in a strong death spiral.
It's patently provable that we are awash in renewable energy, PV, wind, tidal, and that petro exploitation at the current scale is probably not in our continued best interest as a species, yet the Petro folks are blythely cruising along as always. There is no objective reason we can't apply some self discipline and all live well.
Interestingly to me, car & energy ads usually show a clean, affluent family or single person enjoying a powerful vehicle on empty roads or inhabiting an immaculate, spacious home. They are allowed to sell the dream of near infinite power and uncrowded living space/roadways. Somehow that translates to "consumers" as real & normal. Obviously they want to believe that. Living in crowded conditions is stressful and unpleasant, people know this.
The repeated answer is to self-limit our numbers. Multiple studies show that at lower overall numbers, all of our issues drop away or are readily manageable. A major issue is that we aren't very good at self-control. Historically outside forces kept numbers down, our "job" was to breed fast enough to keep pace with attrition. After the discovery of fire, agriculture, stored energy weapons, and using energy from other sources to accomplish work ( horses, oxen, slaves, steam engines, petro-fired generation, etc.) we pretty much "ran the playing field" and are currently approaching 8 Billions. For a lot of reasons that's too many of one critter for the "range" to carry.
It is possible that the current mentality of laissez faire do nothing-ism is actually a built in ancient organism strategy to reset the field, that it is an old, long term species survival strategy (NOT individual...) hardwired into us. Thus the hesitancy to rein in exponential population growth or adopt proven medical survival strategies like vaccines. We're becoming the lemmings.
To your point, it's a case of won't, not can't. At any time rational behaviour could solve the issues, using tech we already have, to achieve goals that can readily be met. Apparently we prefer to pretend that by "doing nothing" we somehow aren't making a choice and therefore aren't accountable for the inevitable outcome. War is always about acquisition of resources. As the number of people grows and the amount of remaining resources decreases, what's the calculation got to be?
https://www.youthpolicy.org/mappings/regionalyouthscenes/mena/facts/
In the Arab countries' populations, young people are the fastest growing segment, some 60% of the population is under 25 years old, making this one of the most youthful regions in the world, with a median age of 22 years compared to a global average of 28.
-
The repeated answer is to self-limit our numbers. Multiple studies show that at lower overall numbers, all of our issues drop away or are readily manageable. A major issue is that we aren't very good at self-control. Historically outside forces kept numbers down, our "job" was to breed fast enough to keep pace with attrition. After the discovery of fire, agriculture, stored energy weapons, and using energy from other sources to accomplish work ( horses, oxen, slaves, steam engines, petro-fired generation, etc.) we pretty much "ran the playing field" and are currently approaching 8 Billions. For a lot of reasons that's too many of one critter for the "range" to carry.
It is possible that the current mentality of laissez faire do nothing-ism is actually a built in ancient organism strategy to reset the field, that it is an old, long term species survival strategy (NOT individual...) hardwired into us. Thus the hesitancy to rein in exponential population growth or adopt proven medical survival strategies like vaccines. We're becoming the lemmings.
We are a long way from the start point of this thread, but it has become a really interesting discussion and I'm particularly enjoying this latest tangent AzCal.
I agree with your point, it is very much along the lines of the conclusions reached by Richard Dawkins in 'The Selfish Gene', which I remember reading about 30 years ago.
For the first 1,990,000 years (or thereabouts) of the human race's existence its problem was breeding quickly and surviving long enough to flourish (by becoming dominant). For the past 10,000 years (well, probably only the last 500 really) the issue has been that there have become increasingly too many of us. I can't help thinking Thomas Malthus was right 200 years ago: that we will soon outgrow our resources.
Self-restraint clearly does not work, particularly as one of the major religions discourages it. Through science we have ameliorated the effects of disease, pestilence and famine to an extent that the population now increases exponentially by about 1% PA, but we don't have any political (or religious) incentives to control it - indeed competition between nations to modernise and industrialise have the opposite effects (Adam Smith got it exactly right in The Wealth of Nations).
Instead of tackling the elephant in the room and reducing over-population, which would be a really unpopular thing to do, we instead concentrate on recycling yogurt pots and selling ourselves marginally more efficient (but generally larger and more luxurious) electronic and mechanical machines. There is nothing wrong with a bit of sensible recycling (or re-use, that is better) or making our machines a bit more efficient as they need replacing of course, but we have convinced ourselves it is the answer to the problem, when it clearly addresses the wrong problem (and to that extent Gretta Thunberg and the like are completely wrong).
Ho hum: these were the musings of an old man first thing in the morn. It is dog-walking time now and it is a lovely summer day here in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
:-) Alan
-
Interesting comments and perspectives from Az & Ax..... We certainly do have the ability for renewable energy, and just this week Western Australia announced a plan for the worlds biggest in the States Sth....Will it happen? probably not due to politics and $/Taxes, yet people seem o.k with fracking (my pet hate, and personally I would prefer nuclear, another NO-NO NIMBY, yet people happy to have reactors for medical use) On the population front, I believe in the 1 for 1 policy to give a stable population. As I have NO kids does that mean I have a "credit" I can Sell, Exchange, etc... like governments and multinationals🤔
If so, at 61, I exchange it for three hardly driven classic cars against 1 family car that my unborn descendant would be allowed......"Just a very naughty boy"🤣
-
Enjoy the walk Alan, I did my 90min with my Koolie 6hrs ago (bushwalking nr home) and then work ing on the Healey trim. Just prepared a slow cook, poured a wine, old b&w movie, and fire going, Jeez retirement is UNDERRATED 👍😀 and that leads into a major issue that feeds into all we've been saying.....$$$$ Taxes, Welfare, Entitlement..... my last 20yrs were lecturing and there is NO doubt in my mind rhat we have changed beyond recognition, with an expectation to receive rather than a drive / desire to achieve, NOT ALL but enough to be a major issue for future generations.
The ratio of Tax Payers to Welfare recipients will see the latter in the majority ($ wise) within 25yrs in current projections.
-
I realized recently that even pedaling my bicycle to work, I emit more CO2, through my increased respiration, than if I just stayed home and worked remotely. A friend described years ago, how much more food he needs to eat to ride his bicycle aggressively, which is where this carbon dioxide comes from. He had it given it considerable thought, and was rattling of numbers in units of calories per mile.
An article on the subject of CO2 emissions from human bodies said that these exhaled carbon meals should be of no concern. Because this material was already in the active exchange cycle from plant to food to fertilizer and round again, it is not the problem. The author said that it is only the carbon being released from long sequestered stores, the primordial sea soup that made the oil, and the vast lush land forests that became the coal, it's this carbon being released at a rate far faster than can escape the planet, which is the source of the greenhouse gases.
But, all this carbon must have been part of the active carbon exchange cycle, those hundreds of millions of years ago. Scientists say that world temperatures were quite a bit warmer, which fostered verdant growth, then;
At the start of the Permian period 299 million years ago, two major continental masses moved closer, the seas between them closed, marine habitats decreased, and the climate became dry. Continental collisions formed mountains like the Appalachians and the Urals. Volcanoes spewed ash into the atmosphere, blocking sunlight and making temperatures and atmospheric oxygen levels fall. The sea became toxic as methane and carbon dioxide trapped in marine sediments was released. By 251 million years ago, the Earth’s ozone layer was destroyed and 90 to 95 percent of life was extinct. https://sciencing.com/climate-paleozoic-period-5000.html
It's a bit reassuring, to think that human life may end in a way not so different from what our world has already been through, rather than by the nuclear holocaust that worried my dreams as a child. At least it's more a case of ignorant self-absorbed negligence, rather than blatant deranged destruction.
-
Enjoy the walk Alan, I did my 90min with my Koolie 6hrs ago (bushwalking nr home) and then work ing on the Healey trim. Just prepared a slow cook, poured a wine, old b&w movie, and fire going, Jeez retirement is UNDERRATED 👍😀 and that leads into a major issue that feeds into all we've been saying.....$$$$ Taxes, Welfare, Entitlement..... my last 20yrs were lecturing and there is NO doubt in my mind rhat we have changed beyond recognition, with an expectation to receive rather than a drive / desire to achieve, NOT ALL but enough to be a major issue for future generations.
The ratio of Tax Payers to Welfare recipients will see the latter in the majority ($ wise) within 25yrs in current projections.
Bob (the dog) and I had a really nice walk for an hour - it is a glorious day here in Northamptonshire. I had a hip changed out (it just wore out - too much parachuting in the past methinks) 4 weeks ago and walking Bob has been a pillar of my recovery therapy.
We are much the same age (I have just turned 61) and have similar perspectives. I retired 8 years ago and agree that retirement is an excellent state to be in as long as one has enough money (but probably miserable if that is not the case (as Mr Micawber might have said 'Annual income 20 pounds, annual expenditure 19 [pounds] 19 [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income 20 pounds, annual expenditure 20 pounds ought and six, result misery' - the same principle applies today).
You make some excellent points about raising enough cash to fund the welfare state's expectations (by which I mean any welfare state, not just the one we have here in the UK). At the moment that isn't too much of a problem for wealthy nations like the United Kingdom and Australia - we can easily dig into our reserves and buy what we need, and can still allow out populations to grow. The global population grows exponentially at about 1% PA, so (if my back of a fag packet calculation using logarithms is correct) it doubles every 69 years. In 70 years time when the population is 16,000,000,000 the demand for stuff that supports our first world economies will far exceed supply. It won't be my problem (like you I'm in the last quarter of my life, and entirely comfortable with that) but it will be an issue for my 16 year old son.
What a world we live in, we are two retired blokes on opposite sides of the globe chewing the fat on a motorcycle forum in near real time, and at effectively no cost. Some of the technology we come up with is wonderful, but in other ways we don't seem to have moved on in our understanding since Thomas Malthus 200 years ago.
Not to worry. Today my brother (also retired in his 50s) and nephew will drive up from Kent (in a SUV with an internal combustion engine) and we'll enjoy some beer cooled down in the refrigerator whilst burning some propane in the garden to cook the meat (that someone has raised, killed, butchered and shipped to us at very low cost) on the barbeque. We (and tens of millions of others) and living the dream... for the time being at least.
Best wishes,
Alan
-
It's a bit reassuring, to think that human life may end in a way not so different from what our world has already been through, rather than by the nuclear holocaust that worried my dreams as a child. At least it's more a case of ignorant self-absorbed negligence, rather than blatant deranged destruction.
What an excellent point Axeman. I suspect you are right - and the end of the world is neigh. The problem comes back to us being just too successful as a species, not controlling our numbers and so spoiling this place of ours. Not that my opinion matters much (I'm 61 and in the last quarter of my life) but if we don't do something about human population doubling every 69 years then the fight for resources will start pretty soon and the end will be very nigh indeed.
I don't think we will do anything about this issue, instead I think we'll focus on recycling yogurt pots and pretend we are doing something useful... and in about 138 years when the global population is 32,000,000,000 Thomas malthus gets proven right.
Ho hum.
Alan
-
... sorry chaps, this post was accidental - my fat fingers.
-
Well done Alan - as an ex Medical Photographer (Royal Hallamshire Sheffield) I know that operation well, and pretty brutal, so doing well mate. I'm at the stage of knowing before tool long it's the knees for me from a STUPID game called Rugby! to date just cleaned out and tears😣 Whilst it sounds selfish, having NO kids, I'm not stressed about the future, paid my dues, had a SINGLE DAY OF BENEFITS (when 16!) and get zero pension (private superannuation here) so helped my super and the environment by running efficient 4 cylinder cars....(o.k Healey is a 6🤣)
So much is beyond out for government control and power held by the MEGA Multinationals who pull the strings through the crumbs they throw to the performing monke....sorry politicians.
Enjoy the BBQ!
-
Alan - if you fancy seeing something that's totally indulgent, makes no sense, (and ask me if I care) and will be FUN (told my wife it's to keep both my mind and muscles active)...check out the website for: tipo184.com - life's Tooooo Short when your in the last 1/4👍 and like you, no regrets being there.
-
... sorry chaps, this post was accidental - my fat fingers.
"this post"? Which one?
People - please :)(http://) It can get very confusing. especially over a long thread, if you don't include at least part of the post you're replying to.
Some posts just "hang out there" with no reference and they may be a reply to a post that was days or weeks in the past. You (not you, othen, anybody) gotta include part of what you're replying to.
-
"this post"? Which one?
People - please :)(http://) It can get very confusing. especially over a long thread, if you don't include at least part of the post you're replying to.
Some posts just "hang out there" with no reference and they may be a reply to a post that was days or weeks in the past. You (not you, othen, anybody) gotta include part of what you're replying to.
My apology - I clicked on the 'quote' rather than 'modify' button for my own post above, saved it before realising my mistake and so ended up with a completely superfluous post. Maybe it is the dementia setting in...?
-
Alan - if you fancy seeing something that's totally indulgent, makes no sense, (and ask me if I care) and will be FUN (told my wife it's to keep both my mind and muscles active)...check out the website for: tipo184.com - life's Tooooo Short when your in the last 1/4👍 and like you, no regrets being there.
My word that is indulgent! I'll have to try to stop myself going out and buying an old MK5 this weekend :-)
-
My word that is indulgent! I'll have to try to stop myself going out and buying an old MK5 this weekend :-)
Trouble is over here they don't rust! so fetch good money, but hey I'm spending the "Non" Kids inheritance ;D ;D
-
Interesting article re Green Transportation and similar to my thoughts earlier in the thread
http://a.msn.com/08/en-au/AAMgmlA?ocid=se
-
Alan - if you fancy seeing something that's totally indulgent, makes no sense, (and ask me if I care) and will be FUN (told my wife it's to keep both my mind and muscles active)...check out the website for: tipo184.com - life's Tooooo Short when your in the last 1/4👍 and like you, no regrets being there.
That looks like a tremendous project. But what will you do with it? Can you even register it? Hope so, that'd be epic.
-
That looks like a tremendous project. But what will you do with it? Can you even register it? Hope so, that'd be epic.
It looks like the answer is sort of, here is a cut and paste from the FAQ part of the website:
‘Is the car street legal in the UK?
IVA (Individual Vehicle Approval) is possible and we will support the builder wishing to get IVA compliance with a "Tipo Road Kit" at a later date.’
The answer for the USA was that it depends on the state - so that probably means definitely no for CA, but certainly yes for WV :-)
-
It looks like the answer is sort of, here is a cut and paste from the FAQ part of the website:
‘Is the car street legal in the UK?
IVA (Individual Vehicle Approval) is possible and we will support the builder wishing to get IVA compliance with a "Tipo Road Kit" at a later date.’
The answer for the USA was that it depends on the state - so that probably means definitely no for CA, but certainly yes for WV :-)
I wanna know about Australia tho. Our rules are a massive PITA for momebuilders.
-
Hi Guys and sorry if the Tipo has hijacked the thread, I just threw it towards Alan.....and quite right the answer re Australia is "Sort Of"
My orig direction was the Westfield XI (Lotus copy) which is legal in SOME Aus states inc W.A. I then fell for the Tipo, and having built a JZR trike, as soon as my wife said Yes I dropped a deposit 👍😀 It's for the build, I hope to hill-climb it, and living semi-rural......... Police-what Police?👍🤣
W.A regs are that if you retain orig chassis then it's a re-body, otherwise it's a individually constructed vehicle few huge amounts of beaurocratic CRAP......
I built the JZR as I came to terms at 60 with walking away from a job I HAD LOVED, (lecturing) until it was eating away at me......so I walked as soon as my superannuation was available Tax Free👍and now onto restoring the Healey and the TIPO (didn't intend having bith but not complaining 👍😀)
-
The JZR I built......then sold as Scary as SHIT.... :D
-
living semi-rural......... Police-what Police?👍🤣
I like the cut of your jib. That was my approach when I repowered a Mk1 Escort with a Holden 6 ;D
The offspring is planning to learn to drive soon. Her dream car's a Clubman of some sort, but there's not much around in our <20k price range though. We'll probably end up buying a Swift Sport. That'll be a fun trackie anyway.
-
Thx Gizzo and am sure that Escort hauled Ass and QUICKLY 👍🤣
-
The JZR I built......then sold as Scary as SHIT.... :D
Wonderful!
-
Thx Alan - and there IS an R.E connection: I rode my 14 C5 to the paint supplier to have the tank scanned for the twin colour scheme (R.E colour codes don't seem to exist) and matched the Tan Leather interior to the Leather seat I sourced from India 👍
Engine was 1060 Guzzi V Twin
-
Thx Alan - and there IS an R.E connection: I rode my 14 C5 to the paint supplier to have the tank scanned for the twin colour scheme (R.E colour codes don't seem to exist) and matched the Tan Leather interior to the Leather seat I sourced from India 👍
Engine was 1060 Guzzi V Twin
Did you mix the can of paint on the way back home? ;)
-
Did you mix the can of paint on the way back home? ;)
;D ;D ;D I've only ever trying spraying ONCE! 18yrs old on a A.H. Sprite, NEVER EVER AGAIN- Admit when your shit at something :( :(
-
Thx Alan - and there IS an R.E connection: I rode my 14 C5 to the paint supplier to have the tank scanned for the twin colour scheme (R.E colour codes don't seem to exist) and matched the Tan Leather interior to the Leather seat I sourced from India 👍
Engine was 1060 Guzzi V Twin
I thought I recognised the Moto Guzzi, I've seen that used on a few trikes. I'm guessing it didn't have a reverse gear - unless you used a car gearbox instead of the Guzzi one (or maybe rigged up something electric like the Honda Gold Wing)?
It looks like a really good 3 wheeler though - very Morgan like.
:-)
-
Interestingly It DID have reverse👍
Cog welded onto custom driveshaft, lever attached to 80's Big Kwaka starter motor, pull lever and it meshed 2 together, farthing button on top to engage.... Danger was MUST be in neutral as opposite rotation, so put in a 3 point system: (1) Switch on dash to relay which only active when (2) reversing light on before (3) engagement of lever. Not very powerful but enough for manoeuvre and not HAVING to find non reverse parking etc....
Other options are Ford 9 gearboxes which rare and $$$$...
Builders also used Harley, Honda CX, Honda 12000 / 4.... mine was around No 300 built, John bow sold the business so don't know current situation, but JEEZ IT WAS FUN TO BUILD & hence TIPO ;D
-
Interestingly It DID have reverse👍
Cog welded onto custom driveshaft, lever attached to 80's Big Kwaka starter motor, pull lever and it meshed 2 together, farthing button on top to engage.... Danger was MUST be in neutral as opposite rotation, so put in a 3 point system: (1) Switch on dash to relay which only active when (2) reversing light on before (3) engagement of lever. Not very powerful but enough for manoeuvre and not HAVING to find non reverse parking etc....
Other options are Ford 9 gearboxes which rare and $$$$...
Builders also used Harley, Honda CX, Honda 12000 / 4.... mine was around No 300 built, John bow sold the business so don't know current situation, but JEEZ IT WAS FUN TO BUILD & hence TIPO ;D
What wonderful Heath Robinson engineering. I think the Ural Dnieper (Russian copy of a 1940s BMW or Zundapp, I forget which) had a reverse gear, but it would have been woefully underpowered for that application. I wonder what gearbox the current Morgan 3 wheeler uses - I think it has the S&S V twin.
:-)
PS. I've just googled the Morgan 3 wheeler - it has a S&S V twin with a Mazda MX5 gearbox. That sounds like an excellent solution to both the forward and reverse gear problems.
-
Yup - mate in Cheshire (went to Photo-college together) is a Morgan Guy and loves them, they even race them (crazy bastards) and early ones had a hard mounted change if drive angle (forgotten the correct term) which used to crack the CHASSIS!!
The JZR is very Heath Robinson but VERY WELL thought out and sorted, and John (JZR), with his strong Bolton accent is a man of few words and even less for idiots and tyre kickers 👍🤣
-
My Dad had a 3 wheeler in the 50's where the engine still had a kick start available (if needed accessed under the bonnet) and reverse was through rotating the motor 180" via the steering wheel!
-
My Dad had a 3 wheeler in the 50's where the engine still had a kick start available (if needed accessed under the bonnet) and reverse was through rotating the motor 180" via the steering wheel!
Wow! Now that was Heath Robinson!
-
Sounds very much like a Bond Minicar.
-
Quite possibly- before I was born (1960) but do remember him and mum talking about it! Probably their 1st car as Dad had Brit Bikes before, and even honeymoon was motorcycling in Europe- and years lat ere Mum's telling my brother and I bikes were a no-no due to safety🤔 well that worked didn't it!!!!🤣
U.K law was if you had a full bike licence you could drive a 3 wheeler- hence Reliant's being so popular.
-
Vanderhall cycle-cars seem to be pretty popular in the U.S. and I am sure they are selling a lot more than Morgans do here. I think they go for around $30K USD.
-
Apparently they FLY! There are a few kits inc many bike engine powered ones. If you want the Morgan look, JZR & TRIKING are the popular ones (if 300 JZR's) is popular!) Mine cost me about $12k to build, and VERY CHEAP Therapy🤣🤣🤣
-
Going back a couple of posts, as Relic has already said, that vehicle would probably be the Bond Minicar, a lightweight three-wheeler with a Villiers two-stroke motorcycle engine, complete with kick-start lever, mounted in unit with the front wheel and suspension. The front wheel could be turned left or right by up to 90 degrees, thus enabling the car to turn in its own length. I remember them from my youth (1950's).
Later models had a reversible Dynastart unit. This doubled as both starter motor and dynamo and incorporated a built-in reversing solenoid switch. After stopping the engine and operating this switch the Dynastart, and consequently the engine, (being a two-stroke) would rotate backwards!
I seem to remember that the front end of the Bond Minicar could actually be lifted off the ground by a reasonably strong man. This would enable the driver to point the car in a different direction! Who needs reverse? This probably only applied to the very early models of the Bond Minicar which were actually lighter in weight than many motorcycles.
In post-war Britain most car drivers would have had a motorcycle before becoming car owners, and, as Dickim mentions, the licencing regulations at that time permitted a motorcycle licence holder to drive a three-wheeler, provided it had no reverse gear. Strange but true. The dynastart system presumably sidestepped this restriction as the gearbox wasn't actually fitted with a reverse gear.
The Bond Minicar was basic in the extreme, but very light in weight, having aluminium bodywork, and it provided a much-needed means of transport for the people of Britain during those austere post-war years.
Maybe I could also refer to the comments made by Suitcase Jefferson at the top of this thread. He mourns the passing of the traditional Royal Enfield Bullet, before fuel-injection, ABS, and a package of stringent emission equipment totally transformed the bike, and with the introduction of the Euro V emission regulations, finally killed it off. I too feel sad that this has happened after all these years of production. I regret that I am no longer able to buy a new motorcycle that is not burdened with all this equipment. One which is simple enough for me to maintain and repair. Just like it used to be years ago.
Unfortunately that world seems to have disappeared, and so, almost in desperation, I bought one of the very last Classic C5 EFI models last year as I knew it would be my last chance. Naturally, it came with all the Euro IV equipment, but I didn't have a choice, and at least I have been able to remove some of it with no ill effects, and the bike is probably a pound or two lighter as a consequence.
One thing that really annoyed me was that I couldn't switch off the lights. Due to modern nanny regulations we are no longer thought to be capable of switching our own lights on and off, and so they are now wired to come with the ignition. Just when you need all the power from the battery to start the engine. Thankfully I was able to install an on/off switch of my own. I am old enough to remember when bystanders used to point and wave at you if you drove your car with the headlights on in broad daylight.
I have to say that it's a lovely bike in many other respects, however, particularly the way the engine produces its torque at low revs, and of course that delightful exhaust note. I've left the original silencer in place, as I think it does a good job. I don't like noisy motorbikes. I also like the riding position, so reminiscent of the Brit bikes I was brought up with. The sprung saddle helps to cushion the ride on our poorly-maintained roads, but the bike is heavy, and at my age it is quite noticeable, even just wheeling it around.
Of course I am not entirely happy about all the electronic equipment fitted to this bike. One look at the wiring diagram reveals just how many sensors and other electronic devices are now fitted, and I think I can see why RE were forced to abandon the Classic/Bullet 500 EFI model with the introduction of Euro V. There's no room left to fit any more emissions equipment.
I applaud Royal Enfield for what they are trying to do, producing affordable motorcycles for people who need them for basic transportation rather than weekend toys for playboys and wannabe racers. The whole world, including RE, has been swept along on a tide of anti-emission regulations and are having to cope the best way they can. Unfortunately this has resulted in the loss of the Bullet/Classic 500, but, unlike some other mainstream motorcycle manufacturers, RE seem to have got their priorities in the right order and still making sensible machines at sensible prices.
-
Great Post GBT :) and brings back memories- like a Go-Kart with a Villiers 210 engine. I found out about 2 strokes running backwards when suiting at a junction my BSA Batman started to die, just caught it, released clutch and the petrol cap just about took my BALLS OFF :( and left me wondering WTF is this? ;D
-
Interesting Axeman, but also maybe ask apart from this forum what interest / involvement do people have with "social media"?
Put me down as "None".
Although I do use my laptop for a LOT of various things, I do not have a cell phone, I do not have a Facebook, I do not have a Google account, I do my best to keep Microsoft's smarmy "Updates" out of my OS, I do not answer my dinosaur "land line" until I know who it is, etc., etc., etc..
(anti)Social Media and cable TV in general could have boon a great thing to education, etc, etc., but it is NOT. It has become a detriment and a danger.
Afterthought: This is now the only "forum" I belong to. For many years I was way "overforumed" & I weaned myself down to 4 & then 3 & then 2. And now.....
-
I think I can see why RE were forced to abandon the Classic/Bullet 500 EFI model with the introduction of Euro V.
Or were they?
According to media reports, RE continues to book sales of significant numbers of 500 UCE machines to EXPORT markets only. 438 units of Classic 500 and Bullet 500 in May 2021, which is the last month I've seen reported. https://www.rushlane.com/royal-enfield-sales-exports-breakup-may-2021-12404492.html
They discontinued the model in India, yes, and perhaps in European markets, but they seem to be selling a lot more of these bikes than could be accounted for with the "Tribute Limited Editions". Are these all closeout production leftovers from over a year ago? RE's big announcement was in February of 2020.
I've tried to discuss this several times. https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=31108.0
I'd be interested to know what's going on, 1) how they market and sell these machines, which do not appear on the corporate websites, 2) what models and colors are actually being sold in 2021, and 3) what the stickers on them list as build date.
If anyone has bought a 500 UCE in the last year, please share.
-
Or were they?
According to media reports, RE continues to book sales of significant numbers of 500 UCE machines to EXPORT markets only. 438 units of Classic 500 and Bullet 500 in May 2021, which is the last month I've seen reported. https://www.rushlane.com/royal-enfield-sales-exports-breakup-may-2021-12404492.html
They discontinued the model in India, yes, and perhaps in European markets, but they seem to be selling a lot more of these bikes than could be accounted for with the "Tribute Limited Editions". Are these all closeout production leftovers from over a year ago? RE's big announcement was in February of 2020.
I've tried to discuss this several times. https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=31108.0
I'd be interested to know what's going on, 1) how they market and sell these machines, which do not appear on the corporate websites, 2) what models and colors are actually being sold in 2021, and 3) what the stickers on them list as build date.
If anyone has bought a 500 UCE in the last year, please share.
Excellent! There is nothing like a conspiracy theory to interest people. It would be nice if this was to be the next tangent for this fascinating thread.
Wonderful :-)
-
Okay chaps, this question is nothing much to do with the thread, but here is your starter for 10: Why does it say 'Scooter' under my forum name and the little picture I uploaded?
(https://i.imgur.com/izSgM7w.png)
I didn't write that and I certainly don't have a Lambretta (I'd put scooters in the same class as camper vans - only good for crushing).
Alan
-
Or were they?
According to media reports, RE continues to book sales of significant numbers of 500 UCE machines to EXPORT markets only. 438 units of Classic 500 and Bullet 500 in May 2021, which is the last month I've seen reported. https://www.rushlane.com/royal-enfield-sales-exports-breakup-may-2021-12404492.html
They discontinued the model in India, yes, and perhaps in European markets, but they seem to be selling a lot more of these bikes than could be accounted for with the "Tribute Limited Editions". Are these all closeout production leftovers from over a year ago? RE's big announcement was in February of 2020.
I'd be interested to know what's going on, 1) how they market and sell these machines, which do not appear on the corporate websites, 2) what models and colors are actually being sold in 2021, and 3) what the stickers on them list as build date.
If anyone has bought a 500 UCE in the last year, please share.
I bought a new Classic 500 in Redditch Red from my local dealer at the start of this month. It was on the floor beside a Bullet 500 and a couple of the Tribute bikes.
The chassis year is M (I assume they skipped I in build years, can anyone confirm this? ) and chassis month is B, so it was built in either Feb '20 or Feb'21.
I live in New Zealand; unsure what the supply situation is like in other export markets.
And like Othen, I'm a Scooter too. I assume this is linked to the number of posts on this website?
-
And like Othen, I'm a Scooter too. I assume this is linked to the number of posts on this website?
Ah ha! So other people are Scooters as well, I should have checked that. I'd rather assumed it was some box or another I'd ticked (or not ticked) when I set up this account :-)
-
[quote author=axman88
According to media reports, RE continues to book sales of significant numbers of 500 UCE machines to EXPORT markets only. 438 units of Classic 500 and Bullet 500 in May 2021, which is the last month I've seen reported. https://www.rushlane.com/royal-enfield-sales-exports-breakup-may-2021-12404492.html
[/quote]
Here is the June report.
https://www.rushlane.com/royal-enfield-sales-exports-breakup-june-2021-classic-650-12407219.html
Still sold a few.
-
Well, the 500 Bullets are not exactly flying out of the factory door. It is amazing that RE is willing to make 3 of those models a month. That seems like an odd decision for such a large factory. ??? What is also amazing is that RE can continue to spit so many motorcycles out of their factory considering the Covid-19 situation in India this year. ;)
-
I bought a new Classic 500 in Redditch Red from my local dealer at the start of this month. It was on the floor beside a Bullet 500 and a couple of the Tribute bikes.
The chassis year is M (I assume they skipped I in build years, can anyone confirm this? ) and chassis month is B, so it was built in either Feb '20 or Feb'21.
I live in New Zealand; unsure what the supply situation is like in other export markets.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. My 2012 C5 arrived with a sticker on the down tube that explicitly stated month and year of manufacture, something like "Jan 2012", not encoded. Perhaps they no longer do this?
I see that the Australian RE corporate website shows the 500 UCE Classic and Bullet as being current models, which isn't true of North American or Indian sites. https://www.royalenfield.com/au/en/motorcycles/classic-models/classic-500/
https://www.royalenfield.com/au/en/motorcycles/
So many choices for our brothers down under! What's a Rumbler?
North America is only offered a choice of 4 models, Meteor, Interceptor, Conti GT 650, Himalayan:
https://www.royalenfield.com/us/en/motorcycles/
One more than they get in Argentina:
https://www.royalenfield.com/ar/es/motorcycles/
While France gets 7 different choices, including 500 UCEs:
https://www.royalenfield.com/fr/fr/motorcycles/
Emissions laws are complex anywhere, certainly so in Europe, where Low Emissions Zones are emerging, but I was under the impression that any newly sold motorcycles had to meet Euro 5 standards for at least the past year. The fact that the 500 UCEs are available for sale in France, would seem to suggest that this model is capable of meeting that standard. RE's story about why they were dropping the 500 UCE would seem to be just that, a story.
On the other hand, USA emissions standards haven't been updated in years. Aren't current standards are equivalent to Euro 4 or less? Harley can produce 1868 cc air cooled twins that meet the emissions standards for the US, but RE's 500 won't?
I call shenanigans!
-
What's a Rumbler?
A Rumbler is a Thunderbird in the home market of India. The Thunderbird name is used by Triumph, so a change was necessary to avoid trademark infringement when selling these bikes overseas.
-
Trademe is the home-grown auction and online trading web site used many New Zealanders and you can see Royal Enfield bikes for sale in the link below.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/search?bof=EaguK4OK&make=royal%20enfield&auto_category_jump=false (https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/search?bof=EaguK4OK&make=royal%20enfield&auto_category_jump=false)
Prices are in NZ dollars and at the time of this post, there is a Rumbler for sale.
-
On the other hand, USA emissions standards haven't been updated in years. Aren't current standards are equivalent to Euro 4 or less? Harley can produce 1868 cc air cooled twins that meet the emissions standards for the US, but RE's 500 won't?
I call shenanigans!
I read a review of the H-D Sportster S recently which said that the current air-cooled Sportster could not be sold in the EU, but was still available for purchase in the U.S and for a lot less money than the new "S". So it would appear that U.S. emission standards are lower than Euro 5.
But oddly, it also appears that our sound regulations are more restrictive than they are in the EU as the new BMW motorcycle models that are sold in the EU make more peak power than do the ones sold in NA. That difference in power output is said to be because the bikes sold here have more stringent noise requirements than they do in Europe. Stuff like this must make vehicle manufacturers crazy.
-
I read a review of the H-D Sportster S recently which said that the current air-cooled Sportster could not be sold in the EU, but was still available for purchase in the U.S and for a lot less money than the new "S". So it would appear that U.S. emission standards are lower than Euro 5.
I recall hearing the news that Harley would withdraw the Sportster from the European market. This was "leaked" by the French importer, and was not an official announcement. This was almost immediately after HD announced they would close their factory in Bawal, where coincidentally all Sportsters and Street 500 and 750 were being built for Asia and Europe. There was some talk about "difficult to meet emissions standards". It's a popular refrain, when tough corporate decisions are being made that might upset loyal customers. Blame the government, nobody will question it. Poor HD, Poor Royal Enfield. Darn red tape regulators, taking away our beloved toys!
HD's smallest, and water cooled Streets were also withdrawn at the same time. I guess those modest, technically advanced machines couldn't be made to meet current Euro emissions standards either?
But look at the Harley line that apparently CAN be brought into compliance: https://harley-davidson-paris-rive-gauche.fr/showroom
FatBoys, FatBobs, Glides, Road Kings, Trikes, these are the BIGGEST and most expensive HD machines with big, air cooled, made in the USA, engines.
I call Shenanigans on HD too!
-
I applaud Royal Enfield for what they are trying to do, producing affordable motorcycles for people who need them for basic transportation rather than weekend toys for playboys and wannabe racers. The whole world, including RE, has been swept along on a tide of anti-emission regulations and are having to cope the best way they can. Unfortunately this has resulted in the loss of the Bullet/Classic 500, but, unlike some other mainstream motorcycle manufacturers, RE seem to have got their priorities in the right order and still making sensible machines at sensible prices.
I think this was a good point. RE is carving out a market niche for affordable bikes - although many of its products will still be weekend toys rather than basic transportation, such is the mature of motorcycling in the 22nd century.
Like many correspondents here, I like the simplicity of RE bikes, although I also enjoy modern brakes, proper lights and engines that don't leak oil :-)
Alan
-
but I was under the impression that any newly sold motorcycles had to meet Euro 5 standards for at least the past year.
Come new Euro-Bollocks time, there's always a grace period where dealers can punt on residual stock. Don't know when this one ends or if it's still running (and the French have a penchant for doing what they like anyway) but there is no Euro 5 UCE.
-
Interesting, thanks for sharing. My 2012 C5 arrived with a sticker on the down tube that explicitly stated month and year of manufacture, something like "Jan 2012", not encoded. Perhaps they no longer do this?
I had a look under the tank and sure enough a factory QC sticker dated 19 Feb 2021.
-
I had a look under the tank and sure enough a factory QC sticker dated 19 Feb 2021.
Is this another "Last Edition" model like the 1983 (?) BMW airhead boxer bikes? ::)
-
Come new Euro-Bollocks time, there's always a grace period where dealers can punt on residual stock. Don't know when this one ends or if it's still running (and the French have a penchant for doing what they like anyway) but there is no Euro 5 UCE.
Yes, I see that you are correct. This article discusses the situation in some depth. https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2020/april/bike-industry-pushing-delay-euro5
A lot of exclusions in the fine print, a long list of non-compliant machines for sale, and the moto industry pushing to delay the onset of Euro 5, which it appears was supposed to be at the end of 2020.
I think you are quite right, those 500 UCE machines are Euro 4 / BS 4.
So all is just as was published back on Jan 31, 2020,
"Royal Enfield today announced that it will discontinue the retail sales of Bullet 500, Classic 500 and Thunderbird 500 in India from March 31, 2020. However, Royal Enfield Bullet 500, Royal Enfield Classic 500 and Royal Enfield Thunderbird 500 will continue to be sold across all the international markets. .... service facilities and spare parts for these motorcycles will remain available for the current owners across all the Royal Enfield dealerships in the country."
How the decision to withdraw the model from RE's domestic offerings, came to be equated with an inability to bring it into compliance with emissions standards is another story, one, in my view, quite similar to the way the Sportster story evolved. The 500s made a poor showing as a percentage of exports after the 650s were introduced, and sold even worse in India.
The irony is, despite a general belief that the model is dead, UCE 500s seem to be maintaining an EXPORT sales level consistent with what they had before it was announced they would be discontinued in India.
When the Classic 350 with the OHC "J" engine comes onto the market, things may change.
-
Or were they?
According to media reports, RE continues to book sales of significant numbers of 500 UCE machines to EXPORT markets only. 438 units of Classic 500 and Bullet 500 in May 2021, which is the last month I've seen reported. https://www.rushlane.com/royal-enfield-sales-exports-breakup-may-2021-12404492.html
They discontinued the model in India, yes, and perhaps in European markets, but they seem to be selling a lot more of these bikes than could be accounted for with the "Tribute Limited Editions". Are these all closeout production leftovers from over a year ago? RE's big announcement was in February of 2020.
I've tried to discuss this several times. https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=31108.0
I'd be interested to know what's going on, 1) how they market and sell these machines, which do not appear on the corporate websites, 2) what models and colors are actually being sold in 2021, and 3) what the stickers on them list as build date.
If anyone has bought a 500 UCE in the last year, please share.
Following your request, I bought my C5 here in the UK at the end of 2020. It's a Euro IV model, Redditch edition, in red. When I checked the VIN number and the engine number it would appear that the bike was actually manufactured in 2017, at the Kanchipuram factory. The engine was made at the Tiruvottiyur, Chennai factory in May 2017. The sticky labels underneath the petrol tank show that it (the tank) was manufactured in May 2017. And I thought I was getting a brand new bike!
No complaints really. It's still a new bike and I'm happy with it. I'm not sure how many, if any, Euro IV models have actually been sold this year in the UK. They would presumably have to have been pre-registered before the end of 2020.
I suppose I was lucky to get the bike at all. A few weeks before I bought it eBay.co.uk was flooded with ads for brand new Classic C5 and Bullet EFI models. Every dealer in the land appeared to have ample stocks. This would have been in October last year. However, when I later made telephone enquiries, a different picture emerged. I contacted several dealers around the country, and they all repeated the same message. "Sorry, sold out. No more arriving." Fortunately, I found a dealer who knew another dealer who happened to have a new Redditch edition C5 in his showroom. Would I be interested? I hadn't considered the Redditch edition until then, but it was my only option and so I bought it and I'm more than happy with the colour scheme. It looks better in real life than in a photograph.
It's interesting to see that the Classic C5 and Bullet EFI are still possibly available for sale brand new in Australia and New Zealand. I've just looked at Mid Life Cycles in Melbourne, and their website shows these models for sale, although on closer inspection they appear to be 2015 models or earlier. They have a drum rear brake, leading-axle front forks, earlier fuel tank etc. So there will be no ABS on these models and the emissions equipment found on later models in other markets will be absent.
I also had a quick look on a French dealer's website and spotted some Classic C5 models for sale. Two of these were shown with the earlier configuration, the same as the ones in Melbourne.
I'm confused, as I always thought France was in the EU and governed by the latest Euro regs? Or have they just forgotten to take these bikes off their website?
Good luck with your research!
-
Following your request, I bought my C5 here in the UK at the end of 2020. It's a Euro IV model, Redditch edition, in red. When I checked the VIN number and the engine number it would appear that the bike was actually manufactured in 2017, at the Kanchipuram factory. The engine was made at the Tiruvottiyur, Chennai factory in May 2017. The sticky labels underneath the petrol tank show that it (the tank) was manufactured in May 2017. And I thought I was getting a brand new bike!
No complaints really. It's still a new bike and I'm happy with it. I'm not sure how many, if any, Euro IV models have actually been sold this year in the UK. They would presumably have to have been pre-registered before the end of 2020.
I suppose I was lucky to get the bike at all. A few weeks before I bought it eBay.co.uk was flooded with ads for brand new Classic C5 and Bullet EFI models. Every dealer in the land appeared to have ample stocks. This would have been in October last year. However, when I later made telephone enquiries, a different picture emerged. I contacted several dealers around the country, and they all repeated the same message. "Sorry, sold out. No more arriving." Fortunately, I found a dealer who knew another dealer who happened to have a new Redditch edition C5 in his showroom. Would I be interested? I hadn't considered the Redditch edition until then, but it was my only option and so I bought it and I'm more than happy with the colour scheme. It looks better in real life than in a photograph.
It's interesting to see that the Classic C5 and Bullet EFI are still possibly available for sale brand new in Australia and New Zealand. I've just looked at Mid Life Cycles in Melbourne, and their website shows these models for sale, although on closer inspection they appear to be 2015 models or earlier. They have a drum rear brake, leading-axle front forks, earlier fuel tank etc. So there will be no ABS on these models and the emissions equipment found on later models in other markets will be absent.
I also had a quick look on a French dealer's website and spotted some Classic C5 models for sale. Two of these were shown with the earlier configuration, the same as the ones in Melbourne.
I'm confused, as I always thought France was in the EU and governed by the latest Euro regs? Or have they just forgotten to take these bikes off their website?
Good luck with your research!
Interesting! Thanks for sharing. There's been quite a few accounts of dealers selling old stock as this years model, but 3 years old may be the record, at least of those I've heard about.
That same phenomenon of dealers posting pictures offering to sell machines they don't have, and likely had no prospects of getting, was going on here in the States as well a year or two ago. Perhaps this is what is the case at the French and Australian dealerships, but, Rushlane continues to publish sales numbers every month, and every month a few hundred 500 UCE machines are listed as having been sold as exports. What they are and where they are going, is a curiousity, to me at least.
The leading offset forks are said to have been dropped for the 2012 model year, although my machine built in Jan 2012 was so equipped. I think the rear drum brake was retired in 2017. It would be regrettable to find that RE decided to use up old parts, for this red-headed stepchild that the UCE 500 has become for them. Much more likely, in my opinion, is that the dealerships are using old, but professionally photographed pictures to attack interest.
Personally, I think you got one of the good ones. I've worked as a design engineer in manufacturing companies my entire career. What I've learned from this, as a consumer, is to stay well away from the beginning and the end of product life cycles. At the beginning, things are changing because problems are being discovered and corrected. At the end, compromises are being made in component quality, because there is economic pressure from unbalanced levels of components already in stock, Fixed costs are distributed over smaller lots, and quantity size of purchases are dwindling. Cost is going up, sales are going down.
On top of this, the pandemic has thrown a wrench in supply side at every level. It's a time of make do, adapt, use what you can get, and try to get it out the door as best you can.
-
I might add that my daughter's 1981 BMW R65LS German-import seems to be a bit of a factory bitza. The front half of the motorcycle, including the new engine with electronic ignition, is the same as a 1982 LS, while the rear of the bike uses the same parts as a 1980 or 1979 R65, including the gearbox with a kick starter (which was eliminated on the '82 LS) and a old final drive housing that has 250cc of oil, instead of the '82's 350cc amount of gear oil. It also has aluminum-painted wheels, unlike the white-painted wheels of the LS model that was introduced into the U.S. in 1982.
Finally, I used to own a U.S. 1982 R65LS and her engine clearly has different cams than my bike did. Her LS pulls like a tractor at low engine speeds from 2K and is a dog above 70 mph, while my bike needed to be revved up past 4K rpm to make good power, as was true for all of the magazine test reports that I read of that model, which typically would hit 100 mph as I recall.
So somehow the factories do manage to pull old parts (not oldpharts) out of the air, or out of the storage closets when the model is being put to rest and a new version is being marketed.
-
I got my Tribute Black spring 2021, bike was actually made summer 2020 (leak test OK sticker on July 8th 2020 at 14:58:05).
Checked with a few dealers here in Spain, they were selling the last C5s, mostly Tributes. There was only one in silver in Majorca and a Scalper edition in Barcelona (which I guess nobody wanted for some reason).
No shortage of Scramblers and GT singles.
I did order mine from across the country, as the one example in my local dealership sold in days.
By now I expect there would be no brand new 500 single in sight at any dealership here in Spain.
-
Wow, 10 pages?? I had a death in the family and had to leave the state for a while. I figured this thread would die quickly, as nobody seemed to be interested in vintage bikes.
Somebody mentioned a 1970s Honda. Fact is I would absolutely love to own a mid '70s Honda, mostly a CB500, CB550, or CB750 SOHC inline four. Those bikes are dead reliable, and do not need to be worked on, at least they didn't when new. But you could still tinker with them if you wanted to. They were 100% mechanical with a rudimentary electrical system. People rode them all over the country back then, and they did not break down. Problem with them today is finding parts.
I owned a 1966 Triumph Bonneville back in the mid '80s, and it was not unreliable, but not something I would try to ride cross country on. The control cables that were available back then had a habit of breaking. I got my first bike at age 8. A Bultaco Lobito 100. The local farm mechanic rebuilt the top end on it, and showed me how engines worked. It wasn't long before I was working on it. My first street bike at age 16 was an early '70s Suzuki GT380 2 stroke triple. I don't remember it being unreliable. By that time I had already rebuilt my first small block Chevy engine. It not only ran, but was still running several years later when it's owner sold it. My first brand new bike was a 1980 Suzuki GS450L. That was 41 years ago. Talk about reliable. I put almost 50K miles on that thing and it NEVER broke down.
Besides the converted to a carburetor 2013 RE B5 Bullet, I have a 2002 Kawasaki Vulcan 750, which came out in 1985, and was made through 2006 with NO changes other than paint colors, the 2016 Rebel 250, also first released in 1985 and unchanged mechanically until 2017, and it was outdated in 1985. I have a 2006 carbureted Harley Sportster 1200, which also has had no new technology since the mid '80s, a 1994 Yamaha XT225, which uses 1970s technology, and a real 1970s 2 stroke manual shift P series Vespa. The Vulcan 750 and Vespa have both had stator failures, but nothing mechanical. Mid '70s to mid '80s Japanese bikes were probably the most reliable bikes ever made, right up until today. The Vulcan 750 has 118K miles on it and runs like new.
All 6 of my bikes use old technology, all are carbureted, none have any kind of computerized electronics or emissions garbage on them, and they are all 100% reliable with the exception of the 2 stator failures, and both those were electrical parts.
I have a 1982 Chevy S-10 drag racer powered by a carbureted small block Chevy that I built myself, no computers, it has made hundreds of passes down the track and the bottom end has never been apart. I'm converting it into a street drivable hot rod.
As far as people not wanting to get grease on their hands, I have spent 38 years working as a car, truck, and equipment mechanic, and was constantly covered in grease, oil, coolant, brake fluid, and all sorts of automotive chemicals. I absolutely loved it, and still do. I'm blue collar. I'm not the type to wear a white shirt and sit behind a desk. I was born with a wrench in my hand and gasoline in my blood, and I will die that way.
Oh, I also hate drones. For a good part of my life I flew mostly gas powered R/C airplanes, and nitro powered off road buggys. I tried electric. Too boring. Some electric R/C cars are really fast, but there is more to it than just speed. Back in 2012, my neighbor bought a new C6 Corvette. He knew I was a car and motorcycle guy, and couldn't wait to take me for a ride in it. It did look good, but that was it. It was smooth, quiet, had traction control and paddle shifters. About as boring as it gets. I had to lie to him about how great it was. Give me a home built '55 Chevy any day.
I am so looking forward to this afternoon. I get to drive a 1923 Model T. I don't own one, but I am an honorary member of a local Model T club. They "adopted" me after seeing how enthusiastic I was about them. I met a couple of the members at a car show several years ago. I even get to work on them.
-
Scenario: Year 2045, 2 "barn find" motorcycles: a 1995 500 Bullet and a 2022 Trials Bullet. Fuel tanks were last filled in 2025. Neither machine has spark or fuel to the plug.
Q: Which machine is more likely to be reanimated by a home tinkerer in his garage with hand tools for under $50 USD?
My only issue with EFI is that you are entirely dependent on "black box" tech. When those black boxes become unobtainable, the game becomes one of YOU becoming an EFI tech at the Craftsman/Builder level. Making a spark happen at the right time is pretty easy with off the shelf stuff, and can happen a variety of ways. "Mapping" your home-built EFI system not so much. Neolithic tech for a 22HP motor is just fine by me.
-
Did someone mention the Honda CB550? I used to own a 1977 CB550K. That was definitely one of my favorite motorcycles. Much better than the CB750F that I bought few years later - on the basis of magazine reviews. ::) I installed S&W air shocks on the bike and it rode and handled really well, although the black quarter fairing that I also installed should have been painted the same as the rest of the body parts on the bike. And of course, being a Honda, it was completely reliable and easy to service. :) Photo attached.
-
I've got a CB550 in the living room.
Bought back in 1993, I rode it from the trailer into a bike shop for lowered seat rails. Had an engine rebuild done while the chopping was being done.
Fitted ot back in, started it and destroyed in seconds as the wrong length cam chain had been fitted.
Had it rebuilt and sold it to a mate. He was going to build it for his wife. He took the bike to bits and then he and his wife fell out over the styling. He sold it back to me in bits.
It's still in bits but the rolling chassis has languished in my living room for 20 years now...
-
Did someone mention the Honda CB550? I used to own a 1977 CB550K. That was definitely one of my favorite motorcycles. Much better than the CB750F that I bought few years later - on the basis of magazine reviews. ::) I installed S&W air shocks on the bike and it rode and handled really well, although the black quarter fairing that I also installed should have been painted the same as the rest of the body parts on the bike. And of course, being a Honda, it was completely reliable and easy to service. :) Photo attached.
I would love to own and ride that bike, disc brake and all. But without the 4 into 1 exhaust, which required removal of the centerstand. Without a centerstand there is no way to repair the tube type tires.
-
"WildBill's" 350 Honda "Forza" is kinda alluring in its Dongo/Warro/💍- Dove guise on YouTube. Me? I've always liked those Honda 350s...
-
Scenario: Year 2045, 2 "barn find" motorcycles: a 1995 500 Bullet and a 2022 Trials Bullet. Fuel tanks were last filled in 2025. Neither machine has spark or fuel to the plug.
Q: Which machine is more likely to be reanimated by a home tinkerer in his garage with hand tools for under $50 USD?
My only issue with EFI is that you are entirely dependent on "black box" tech. When those black boxes become unobtainable, the game becomes one of YOU becoming an EFI tech at the Craftsman/Builder level. Making a spark happen at the right time is pretty easy with off the shelf stuff, and can happen a variety of ways. "Mapping" your home-built EFI system not so much. Neolithic tech for a 22HP motor is just fine by me.
That was an interesting thought experiment. I wonder whether it will all be overtaken by events and it will become impossible to run either bike in 2045? Here in the UK the sale of petrol and diesel engined cars will be banned from 2030 (I know, it is the nanny state, but we live in a very small place with lots of us - so we have to find ways of making that work). Bikes seem to have dodged the bullet regarding that ban so far, but one imagines the feds will be out to get them soon.
I don't know whether it will be socially acceptable to run a 50 year old motor (bike or car) by then, at the moment I can just about get away with running my 1976 Suzuki 2 stroke on British roads, but the trail of blue smoke it leaves in its wake does raise more than a few eyebrows (younger folk sometimes ask me whether it is supposed to do that).
I agree with your implied tenet, indeed that is why I run a 1980 Volvo 244 today (no electronics apart from the quartz clock), but I just wonder whether we are the last generation permitted by our societies to do so.
Alan
-
Hmmm interesting times ahead! here in Oz electric bikes are literally limited to bicycles with battery assist due to bhp/speed restrictions....however.....
Back in 08 I was on secondment to Nanjing (currently in news for Covid outbreak) and at a campus 40mins away. 95% of the population lived and worked in the town with GOOD public transport for further afield. Local' s used electric bikes (anti-theft was removing the battery!) whilst most commercial goods were couriered using Zongshen trikes (built at the prisons) think motorcycle front and small ute rear, sort of idyllic in a crude non western way....and then China changed leadership and !!!!!
Maybe it's going to be not only working from home, but doing much MORE locally, and maybe not such a bad thing????
-
Hmmm interesting times ahead! here in Oz electric bikes are literally limited to bicycles with battery assist due to bhp/speed restrictions....however.....
Back in 08 I was on secondment to Nanjing (currently in news for Covid outbreak) and at a campus 40mins away. 95% of the population lived and worked in the town with GOOD public transport for further afield. Local' s used electric bikes (anti-theft was removing the battery!) whilst most commercial goods were couriered using Zongshen trikes (built at the prisons) think motorcycle front and small ute rear, sort of idyllic in a crude non western way....and then China changed leadership and !!!!!
Maybe it's going to be not only working from home, but doing much MORE locally, and maybe not such a bad thing????
Well, certainly different times ahead. We have all become used to very cheap international travel , convenient personal transportation, very cheap and widely available food, cheap energy and inexpensive consumer goods. This all happens because supply of all those things exceeds demand, and we have lots of pounds, euros and dollars in our pockets.
If the world’s population keeps increasing by 1% PA (so it doubles every 69 years) that balance between supply and demand will change very quickly indeed. There will be much more demand than supply and all those things will have to be restricted (either by cost or statute). If we don’t do something about the elephant in the room that no one likes to talk about - over population - then people will be fighting each other over access to things within my son’s lifetime.
There is no political margin in even discussing the issue though, indeed one of the dominant religions is strongly against controlling human population, so the next generation may be in for a rocky ride.
Ho hum :-)
-
AGREED - and for me what is sadder is that both Business and Politicians are now only ever thinking about the next set of profits or poll / election - the days of building for the future is sadly Long Gone.
As I said before with NO Kids I'm going to use the One Die - One Born Credits and have FUN.... ;D
-
AGREED - and for me what is sadder is that both Business and Politicians are now only ever thinking about the next set of profits or poll / election - the days of building for the future is sadly Long Gone.
As I said before with NO Kids I'm going to use the One Die - One Born Credits and have FUN.... ;D
I have no problem with the capitalist model - it is a bit ugly but works far better than anything else. The political problem will not be solved at a global level because it is no nation's interests to do that - if anyone steps off the conveyor belt (of increasing population and wealth generation) they will become dominated by other people (that is just human nature - nothing new there). Throughout (human) history the population has been controlled by war, pestilence and famine - I just think there will be a return to that as the globe fills up with people. It will not matter how many yogurt pots Greta Thunberg gets people to recycle, that is just answering the wrong question.
We are getting quite a distance from the OP's point on this tangent :-)
Ho hum.
-
Agreed - Sadly - But Agreed :-[
-
Richard230; A Donny Osmond t-shirt!!! :o
-
Richard230; A Donny Osmond t-shirt!!! :o
Thanks for letting me know who that was. I have never heard of Donny Osmond. But apparently my 7-year old daughter had. ;)
-
I remember Donny Osmond well. He was a teen idol back when I was a teenager. Of course I paid more attention to his sister Marie.
-
I remember Donny Osmond well. He was a teen idol back when I was a teenager. Of course I paid more attention to his sister Marie.
I remember Donnie Darko...