Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: kammersangerin on December 16, 2012, 05:43:59 pm
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Hi folks,
I am re-enetering the bike fold, and am seriously looking at buying a c 5 classic. Looked last year after my scooter was nicked, but thought they were carburrated, and thought another hotwire might be too easy. Also, as I am a short female rider, so it was a bit tall. Thus I bought a Vespa 300 ie, and that also is tall and now has caused hip problems one footing all the time, so I am faced with getting something else.
The C-5 is one of the two on the short list after trying LOTs of different bikes, from harleys to Hondas. The dealership even snapped on some lowered hagons and lowered the stock seat to try, and I felt comfortable enough to trial a bike. Basically I am happy with the bike and it's handling, and it's easy to make a pack horse, since I ride for commuting and errands most days of the week.
My real comlaint - and surprise, is the piddely poor rear brake. It's almost not there, even after adjusted for my foot. I got talks about it not being seated in, so forth and so on, but I have never had any bike I have tried in the last six months not offer solid braking, drum or disk. Sure, disk does better, and my current ride stops on a dime, but I shouldn;t have to try and stand on my toe. They adjusted it until they said it was dragging slightly, but it made virtually difference. I did some reading and even found a youtube video that showed how they didn't even really assemble them correctly so the brake wasn't working right. Reviews give it so so on the brakes, but this isn't so so. This is not there.
I am a rear brake user for smoother throttle control at higher revs, and stops on on hills. I am weigh far too little to hold a bike like that on a hill with my legs.
Any ideas? I doubt I will buying that exact one because I like a different colour, but really don't feel I can buy the bike if this is the best it can offer.
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The rear brakes on a C5 are about average. They will get better with some miles. If they really don't work there is something wrong. A C5 will lock the rear wheel with a solid push if all is right. That said I think you are putting to much emphasis on the rear brakes. Quick stopping is done with the front not the rear wheel. Holding yourself on a hill is done with the front not the rear wheel. Rear brakes are made to have less stopping power because it's to easy to lock the rear.
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Hi, I have a G5 which is similar except for bench seat, & bigger wheels-same brakes I believe. Mine is a used 2010, the rear brake is adequate, but being a smaller diameter than some other bikes, it requires more pressure to lock up. I like that, because your bike becomes a one runner sled when the rear wheel locks. I can lock mine up-but never unintentionally like some others. The front disc is excellently paired with the bike & works well to slow quickly, & hill hold-with no suprises. I really enjoy my enfield & have owned many famous makes to compare it with. I would get the dealer to swap some dunlop K-70 tires onto it as a condition of purchase, & replace the fork oil,which is poor from the factory-with some good quality synthetic ATF, or brand name stuff. You will really appreciate the ride & stability of the motorcycle vs. scooter. Best Wishes, Craig
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The brakes are not always centered in the drum properly at the factory. The mechanics may or may not have a clue about how to take care of the problem, but once it is done the rear brakes are more than capable locking up the rear wheel.
Bare
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Locking up the rear wheel can be VERY exciting!! I did a few times on my 750 pound Road King....trust me on this, you do NOT want to lock up the rear wheel.
It can cause you to get launched off the high side as they say..
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If you end up with RE, a Triumph, or anything, I have to suggest you wean off the rear brake for safety sakes. The MSF or any type of training school tells you to use both brakes but the front has 90% of the stopping capabilities. Look at any rear disc equipped motorcycle and you will see the rotor diameter is much much smaller to prevent the rider from over braking and doing the lock up. Yes, the RE drum will improve a bit once seated in, but get off the rear for your own sake. The only time I use the rear ever is when it's raining.
I don't understand your reasoning of smoother throttle control at high revs. And on a hill, I want both feet down and hold the bike with the front.
Riding a motorcycle is much like flying a plane, you have to use all your limbs and be in tune with your eye hand coordination to really fly or ride the machine. Sorry for the non warm fuzzy response but I want you safe.
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Maybe it's bad form, but I rely on my rear brake to keep from rolling backwards when stopped on an uphill slope - but only when it's actually time to get moving again. I hold the bike with the rear brake while I release the front just long enough so I can grip the throttle while I roll on to get moving - especially since I was spanked for trying to use 2 fingers on the brake and clutch levers (mostly the clutch lever ;) ).
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Note that rear disk brake Royal Enfield's are starting to become available.
However its unlikely you will see a rear disk on the "retro" look C5 anytime soon.
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I am of similar mind- the worst feature of my B5 is the rear brake. There's very thin "zone of effectiveness": a little less and it doesn't work very well, and a little too much and it locks up on you.
My solution? I've simply adapted my riding style to accommodate the bike. I use about 70/30 front to rear brake ratio, and I keep far enough away from the person in front of me to avoid close calls.
Even with the rear brake, I wouldn't hesitate to buy Royal Enfield again. The performance on the twisties, the styling, the ease of maintenance, the MPG- all of these make up for the rear brake, and then some.
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Thanks all for your replies so far. I think it sounds like while the rear brake isn't fantastic, I should probably getting a bit more. Maybe best to describe where foot position is, keeping in mind I am a small female, which means my foot is also small.
Imagine a foot at 3 oçlock and the peddle at 3oçlock. No imagine going down to 4 oçlock and feeling nothing. Start pushing toward 5, and you might get a whisper. My ankle will not go past 5 oçlock. Normally, I adjust the brake so that it is engaging very affectively at 4. 5 should lock the brake, if not before. 3:30 should give me light engagement. That's how I have test ridden every other bike, and rode in years past, and it's gone quite well. I would like to be close to that. I find the front brake on the bike to very adequate.
No, I have not locked the rear brake unless I wanted to. Can it happen yet? Possibly, as I plan to be around a long time. Hope not. In fact, the two times I have come close to get dumped in a fast stop was from the weight of the bike deaking, not from the rear brake locking - it didn't.
mattsz, that's exactly how I use the rear brake on a hill. Works for me.
Shamelin, that is the ratio I shoot for. The way this particular bike was going I would forced to do 95/5. IMHO that's not a great ratio. Again, maybe it's this bike.
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If the brake pedal had to move from a 3:00 o'clock position to a 5:00 o'clock position before it started doing anything I say the brake pedal was not adjusted correctly.
I realize different folks like different adjustments which probably explains why the people that set up my G5 when it was new had the pedal adjusted this way.
The very first thing I did when I got it home was to put the bike on the centerstand and then screw the rear brake rod adjusting nut in until the rear wheel had a definite drag.
I then backed off the adjusting nut just until the rear wheel could be rotated freely with no scraping sounds.
Adjusted in this manner, the brake pedal only has to move about 3/4" - 1" (19-25mm) to lock the wheel (which I avoid doing at all costs).
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Aligning the brake so it works properly is easy. Loosen up the rear axle, brake plate bolt, and anchor bolt. Tighten the brake adjuster so it holds the brake engaged. Tighten the brake plate nut, axle, and anchor bolt. Loosen the brake adjuster so it's adjusted properly. Voila! Your brake works.
Scott
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"Adjusted in this manner, the brake pedal only has to move about 3/4" - 1" (19-25mm) to lock the wheel (which I avoid doing at all costs)."
See, that's more of what I would expect and want. It was nowhere near that, even after they adjusted it until it was just dragging. Sounds like a much better plan.
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Even if you adjust the brake itself till where it is almost dragging, if you don't make the appropriate adjustment to the pedal itself and where it sits, which is done with the jam nut and sensor on the frame you won't get proper pedal feel and travel. I figured that one out during my adjustment process.
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the rear brake is adequate to hold position on a hill. I can feel it a little during normal traffic use, but, it is a minimalist thing for sure.
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I am of similar mind- the worst feature of my B5 is the rear brake. There's very thin "zone of effectiveness": a little less and it doesn't work very well, and a little too much and it locks up on you.
You probably need to center your brake. Mine is very progressive and to lock it up takes a bit of effort, which is the way I like it. But it's not the most powerful brake I've ever had either. Neither is the front one. But both are quite adequate.
I haven't been able to do a stoppie with it, but I have locked the front wheel up when I wanted to.
Most of the stopping problem is that we just don't have very much rubber on the ground, so you just have to deal with that. You learn little things such as not to drive directly behind another vehicle, especially one you can't see ahead of. I have, on a few occasions, had to avoid the vehicle ahead and end up beside him. Leave yourself some escape room, even if it's just not following very closely.
Bare
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I've ridden several different bikes with the rear brake set properly. They're pretty effective for a drum and will easily lock the rear wheel. The one aspect that really lacks is feedback. They're pretty progressive but it's tough to tell when you're getting close to lock up, the pedal feel pretty wooden. Still, about average for a rear drum brake.
Scott
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Thanks again those with ideas about the braking. Sounds like it is fixable. I haven't quite been ready to take the plunge, because it would be the third new bike in less than 2 years, and at this point, I just want something Ic an ride - breaking them in all the time can get boring - but right on the edge. It's just a smidgeon tall still to take the plunge, I would like a bit better than the balls of my toes. Maybe the springs needed to be softened slighty. Or a solo seat that is slightly lower than the stock.
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The C5 has a lowering kit available from NField gear, but I don't see it on the site now. It was composed of shorter rear shocks and lower seat springs. I've heard that the combination of both can put too much of a rearward slant in the seat to be comfortable.
You could also just get some shorter seat springs:
http://nfieldgear.com/enfield-store/solo-seat-lowering-kit.html
Or order some shorter Hagon shocks from Dave Quinn Motorcycles (starts at $200) or get a thinner seat and have it mounted.
There is a nice looking lower seat available but it's currently out of stock. Call and ask:
http://nfieldgear.com/enfield-store/perewitz-s-premium-low-seats.html
There are plenty of thin chopper seats out there that can also easily be made to fit the C5.
Scott
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Thanks again those with ideas about the braking. Sounds like it is fixable. I haven't quite been ready to take the plunge, because it would be the third new bike in less than 2 years, and at this point, I just want something Ic an ride - breaking them in all the time can get boring - but right on the edge. It's just a smidgeon tall still to take the plunge, I would like a bit better than the balls of my toes. Maybe the springs needed to be softened slighty. Or a solo seat that is slightly lower than the stock.
The rear brake will never be wonderful and requires a bit of force compared to a disk, but correct adjustment will make it acceptable. note that I said acceptable not amazing.
As far as seat height goes, try an unsprung solo trials/scrambler seat ... below is my B5 fitted with a generic Indian made aftermarket seat .
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/clannagh/Seat_Rack-1.jpg)
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The rear brake should be able to lock up, no problem, with the right adjustment and force applied.
But then you might lose control. Unless of course you sence an audience is watching and you need to powerslide for coolness reasons.