Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet Electra & AVL => Topic started by: chuntera on January 16, 2019, 04:26:16 am
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Hi folks,
I am new to his forum and a new RE owner in USA northeast. The sum of my RE experience has been a few laps around the block while visiting in India.
I picked up a 2008 AVL last year. It had been stored outdoors and suffered from corrosion. Also the starter clutch had gone (surprise).
I've started down the list of tasks to bring it back online. It will have to pass safety inspection at my local DMV so fiddly bits like turn signals must function.
I picked up a copy of Pete Snidal's book and a factory service manual.
This unit originally came with front drum brake which was converted single disc with parts from a newer Bullet. The control lever and master cylinder appears to be typical chinese scooter variety. The fender/mudguard do not bolt to the new fork lowers. To resolve I ordered parts from Hitchcocks (not sure if that will be an option after Mar 29). They have a watson-squire fender bracket which should attach the original fender to the new fork lowers (after drilling a few new holes in the fender).
I derusted the gas tank and pulled apart the fuel petcock/tap (BSP threads) for cleanup & replace the sealing washers.
The exhaust cleaned up nicely and I'm halfway through the fenders. The rear fender fasteners were stripped & will be replaced with socket caps.
The turn signals are pretty crusty so I am replacing with a new set. The rear brake bulb is a common ground type lacking continuity to the frame, likely due to corrosion or a broken ground wire. Based on the rust patterns the brake light assembly collected rainwater (ie. not watertight).
I still need to clean out the ucal CV carburetor and add a filter to the fuel line.
Based on Pete Snidal's book, I should add a inline fuse the battery cable leading to the starter motor and also run a wire for the master cylinder brakelight switch.
After sitting in my garage for a few days I discovered a puddle of ATF fluid under the RH fork. So I added to my list is replacing the fork drain bolt sealing washers. Hopefully I can source those locally.
Apparently I need to pull the drive transfer case to replace the starter clutch. Given the other necessary tasks for a road-worthy machine, I will postpone the ES starter issue and exercise my right leg instead.
Cheers.
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March 29th? You're in the USA, not Europe! :-X
Sounds like you have your work cut out, it might be worth taking off the primary cover an checking that there are no little pieces of dead sprag clutch waiting to cause mayhem. Have a new gasket standing by and refill with ATF.
It would be good if you could post some pictures on here.
A.
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Welcome to the forums :)
Please post some pics as you progress. If we can be of any assistance don't hesitate to ask, as there are a few AVL owners here.
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Thanks for the reply. I have a bunch of photos on my phone I should go through,
Here is before/after tank derusting
(http://20181217_160115-0_1.jpg)
(http://20190117_200400-0_1.jpg)
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This is the fuel petcock. I replaced the fibre washers. The plastic standpipe is worn down and does not seat well on the tap.
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Progress on cleanup of the exhaust. There is pitting around the welded bracket.
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Finally the new fork lowers and disc brake. This model originally had front drum brake.
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Welcome aboard! I may have one of the older Iron Cylinder ones, but still think the AVL is one of the prettiest motors ever made by Enfield or anyone else. It'll all be worth it when you're thumping along down those byways.
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So far looking pretty good!
The tank interior looks great. Will you seal it with something like RedKote?
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Finally the new fork lowers and disc brake. This model originally had front drum brake.
That is what the Electra-X version of the 500 AVL (and also the G5/Electra-EFI) was originally fitted with. Looks better with the correct centrally mounted fender, IMHO, are you planning to fit one?
The exhaust seems to have been fitted with an aftermarket short muffler, which usually makes the bike sound much better. New ones of these are still available fairly cheap. if you want full chrome.
A.
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Hi All,
Still plodding along making my 2008 AVL road-worthy.
I primer-ed the inside of both fenders to stop corrosion and cleaned the shiny sides too. I put a couple layers of rattle-can paint of the front fender bracket.
I bought new turnsignals and pulled apart the taillight. I probably was too ambitious with the taillight; I epoxied in LED lights place of the bay15 bulb. Crimped new connectors for the turnsignals, etc. I plan to run a 2nd ground wire from the taillight to somewhere on the frame, probably rear fender mounting point. The front LH turnsignal will need a longer wire to reach the connector on the RH side of the frame.
I ran a new +ve battery cable and added an inline fuse to the starter solenoid. The bike came with the newer green TCI unit and the optional spark delay module. Both seemed redundant so I pulled the spark delay module. For some reason the kickstand kill switch wire ran though the spark delay module, took me all afternoon to figure where those two green wires are supposed to go.
I cleaned up the ucal bs29 carburettor, The float bowl was surprisingly clean however the pilot jet was plugged and took a few days soaking to unblock. The carb appears to have +4 main (120) and +1 pilot (17.5) and needle raised 1 notch. There were a pair of shims under the needle which I removed.
Incidentally, the intake manifold has an inlet port which the service manual said is for the PAV. It appears to be covered with electrician's tape(photo), I will need a better plug to prevent vacuum leaks.
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Hi All,
Incidentally, the intake manifold has an inlet port which the service manual said is for the PAV. It appears to be covered with electrician's tape(photo), I will need a better plug to prevent vacuum leaks.
Welcome.
That small tube into the manifold is part of the Pulse Air system. Have the rest of the Pulse Air system components been removed? If so there is no where for a tube to be connected. Just seal it off.
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That small tube into the manifold is part of the Pulse Air system. Have the rest of the Pulse Air system components been removed? If so there is no where for a tube to be connected. Just seal it off.
No sign of PAV/Pulse Air components. Need to find something better than electricians tape to seal that manifold tube.
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No sign of PAV/Pulse Air components. Need to find something better than electricians tape to seal that manifold tube.
I used JB-Weld on mine (oh, so long ago). Then after a little while I got rid of the whole carburetor.
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Incidentally, the intake manifold has an inlet port which the service manual said is for the PAV. It appears to be covered with electrician's tape(photo), I will need a better plug to prevent vacuum leaks.
The "right" thing would be a vacuum-cap (looks like a little nipple), they used to be available at auto-parts stores in all sizes. Look good and don't leak / fall off.
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My understanding of the right thing... ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/Cn6GfvM/DSCN7422.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FBXTFJ0)
Dell'Orto PHF36 pumper carb (the head needs surprisingly little porting work on the inlet side), the Malossi 02-0555 carb rubber bolts right on, just add stainless steel clip and motorcycle.
A.
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Hi All,
Another update. Finished going through the electrical; had to re-solder a few of the bulb ground wires, replace burnt out bulbs, etc. Sadly I broke the headlamp glass when moving equipment
around in the garage, so I replaced with a sealed beam headllight.
Got the bike back together, put about a gallon of fresh gas in the tank. Unsurprisingly the fuel tap leaked so I had to seal that up.
Finally got the bike started yesterday, there is more noise from the valves than I am comfortable with. I haven't checked the valve/pushrod clearances so that will added to the todo list.
It runs poorly, backfires when rolling off the throttle and bogs down when rolling on the throttle. I suspect a vacuum leak somewhere so will have to also check the carb boot, etc.
At least it idles. Once it warmed up I was able to start it without the choke.
Left it on the stand and ran through the gears, seems to shift OK and no problems finding netural.
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I checked the pushrod clearances; the intake was a little tight & exhaust was a little loose. I adjusted both tappets, the 3 nut locking mechanism is...interesting...difficult to dial in the clearance and lock down the tappet. There is less valve noise after adjustment (less being a relative term here).
I pulled the carb & intake boot to check for vaccum leaks and found no obvious problems. I discovered one of the screws for the intake boot was loose so maybe that was causing the air leak. Carb jetting is off, running rich at most throttle settings.
The front brake lacks stopping power. I replaced brake host with a SS line and bleed everything but still not happy with brake performance. I should check the caliper if the pads are moving properly on the pins.
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The 29mm CV carb would normally be deliberately jetted very lean to make the lean-burn set up with the restrictive exhaust header pipe function properly.
As your bike had been fitted with a freer-flowing muffler the previous owner could have jetted up the carb to suit. Does it still have the original header pipe? It would be double skinned and very heavy, with an obvious narrowing where it fits into the exhaust port on the cylinder head.
A.
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If you suspect an air leak, check the rubber diaphragm inside the top of the carburetor for any holes/rips/tears/pinholes/etc that may cause an air leak.
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The 29mm CV carb would normally be deliberately jetted very lean to make the lean-burn set up with the restrictive exhaust header pipe function properly.
As your bike had been fitted with a freer-flowing muffler the previous owner could have jetted up the carb to suit. Does it still have the original header pipe? It would be double skinned and very heavy, with an obvious narrowing where it fits into the exhaust port on the cylinder head.
A.
Thanks for the reply. I believe it is the OE exhaust header, appears to be double walled. There is a custom muffler that is shorter than stock (and louder).
The CV carb is defintely re-jetted. Stock jetting is 110 main and 15 pilot , mine has a 120 main and 17.5 pilot. The needle was raised (ie. clip was lowest position) and shimmed. These settings are too rich; my garage smelled of unburned petrol for hours :O
I set the needle back to original position (ie. clip in middle position) and will try 115 & 117.5 main jet sizes. My past experience jetting CV carbs was main jet +2 or +3 sizes, +4 sizes seems too much here.
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There has been stuff posted on UK forums about jetting up the CV carbs, but the guy who did it (portisheadric who posts here occasionally) had replaced the AVL down pipe with an unrestricted Hitchcocks' item, which the previous owner might not have appreciated. His notes are attached along with a piece about modifying the CV slide.
When the UK importers brought out their Electra-X go-faster kits they used a Dell'Orto PHF32 pumper carb. They opened out the front of the stock air box and fitted a bigger K&N air filter, but left the lean burn down pipe in place, which meant that the Dell'Orto still had to be jetted quite lean, only a 110 main jet ISTRC. I might have a Hitchcock's Electra-X Amal Mk1 kit going spare in a while if you want to play with that!
A.
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There has been stuff posted on UK forums about jetting up the CV carbs, but the guy who did it (portisheadric who posts here occasionally) had replaced the AVL down pipe with an unrestricted Hitchcocks' item, which the previous owner might not have appreciated. His notes are attached along with a piece about modifying the CV slide.
A.
Thanks for sharing the post about CV carb tuning which parallels my tuning experience so far. I have a 120 main jet, if I set the AF mixture screw 4-5 turns out, I have good throttle response from idle to 1/4 throttle. However using the "idle drop" method to set the AF mixture screw comes out around 2-3 turns out but engine will "bog" or stall off-idle to 1/4 throttle.
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Thanks for sharing the post about CV carb tuning which parallels my tuning experience so far. I have a 120 main jet, if I set the AF mixture screw 4-5 turns out, I have good throttle response from idle to 1/4 throttle. However using the "idle drop" method to set the AF mixture screw comes out around 2-3 turns out but engine will "bog" or stall off-idle to 1/4 throttle.
Would you recap your present status on the carb for me? I've lost track.
I know you have a short open bottle. What about intake?
I think you're needing way too many turns out on that A/F mixture screw. Should run around 1 1/2 turns out plus or minus a quarter or an eighth (sound like a drug deal :) )
Zero to 1/4 throttle is all on the Pilot. Maybe you should try putting the Main back to 110, the Pilot back to 15, the needle to the middle notch.
I think I remember I ended up (with open bottle and a K&N filter) leaving the Main at 110, a 17.5 Pilot, stock needle in the middle notch with one shim to make it a hair higher, mixture screw a hair more than 1 1/2 turns out. I didn't bother changing the Main as I never planned on getting anywhere near open throttle. It had nowhere near any break-in miles on it.
Whatever your particular recipe ends up being for your particular engine, it's a sure thing that your engine is getting way too much gas at that zero to 1/4 throttle opening. That's why it's bogging down. Remember to mark your throttle in increments.
Oh Oh and you really must rule out vacuum leaks (but you know that) :) :)(http://)
PS: This tweaking of my BS-29 was way before the ACE headwork and switching to the TM 32. And the hot tube was yet to Dremeled out and disposd of unceremoniously with extreme prejudice.
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Would you recap your present status on the carb for me? I've lost track.
I know you have a short open bottle. What about intake?
The bike has shorter muffler than stock. The exhaust header pipe is double walled so I guess its the original one.
The air box has been removed and I have a Uni foam filter.
I think you're needing way too many turns out on that A/F mixture screw. Should run around 1 1/2 turns out plus or minus a quarter or an eighth (sound like a drug deal :) )
Zero to 1/4 throttle is all on the Pilot. Maybe you should try putting the Main back to 110, the Pilot back to 15, the needle to the middle notch.
I agree that going back to stock jetting is good move at this point. When I picked up the bike it had a 120 main, 17.5 pilot plus the needle had been raised & shimmed. So far I put the needle back in center notch without shim and went back to 15 pilot jet. Next will be reverting to the 110 main.
I think I remember I ended up (with open bottle and a K&N filter) leaving the Main at 110, a 17.5 Pilot, stock needle in the middle notch with one shim to make it a hair higher, mixture screw a hair more than 1 1/2 turns out. I didn't bother changing the Main as I never planned on getting anywhere near open throttle. It had nowhere near any break-in miles on it.
I read some of your old posts which made me think stock jetting on the CV carb is probably good starting point.
Oh Oh and you really must rule out vacuum leaks (but you know that) :) :)
Yup, had one of those, all better now :)
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Surprisingly I got this bike on the road today after ignoring it for the past 6 months.
Last fall I used a wideband O2 sensor to find reasonable carb jetting.
It appears the intake cam had been retarded by the PO, I reset to stock timing.
Apparently last year I didn't tighten a tappet locknut and the pushrod clearance had opened up. After another round of tappet adjustments, valve noise is noticeably lower.
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It appears the intake cam had been retarded by the PO, I reset to stock timing...
Yes, unfortunately after the cam retarding was popularized for the old CI Bullets, some people thought that they should do it to everything, which of course wasn't a good idea.
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I have retarded the inlet timing on a few AVL engines when equipped with 'S' cams and a compression hike and it has worked out very well ;)
B.W.
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I have retarded the inlet timing on a few AVL engines when equipped with 'S' cams and a compression hike and it has worked out very well ;)
B.W.
Hi BW,
Good to see you are doing well.
Maybe the virus lockdown will abate to allow some of this year's racing season. I always look forward to your success!
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Hi BW,
Good to see you are doing well.
Maybe the virus lockdown will abate to allow some of this year's racing season. I always look forward to your success!
Thanks, Ace. I doubt we will be doing any racing this year, although the bikes are ready to go, excepting the cylinder head for the 350, which is undergoing repairs and upgrades.
There is a lot of work underway here, but I have slowed it right down for now, as customers may not have so much money to spare at present and I am currently doing battle with some aches and pains which spring themselves on me from time to time, so this lockdown sort of suits me at present.
Stay safe, all!
B.W.
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I have retarded the inlet timing on a few AVL engines when equipped with 'S' cams and a compression hike and it has worked out very well ;)
B.W.
Still going strong with your build BW! After clocking 45k kms I think I have finally wrecked up the bottom end but retarding the inlet timing on my AVL made it rev higher, at least that's what I felt.
-Sanket