Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet Electra & AVL => Topic started by: tooseevee on September 10, 2019, 07:05:02 pm
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I decided a few weeks ago that I was bored with the wrapped exhaust. I still like wrapped exhausts, but I just got bored which is par for the course for an 81 y.o. Type A trapped in a Type D body, obsessive modifier who can't ride much any more (pretty crippled up,, don'tcha know? :) ).
So yesterday I pulled the exhaust off. This morning I finished Phase 1. Removed all the wrap, wore the chrome on the pipe down to a tooth with a powered wire brush, took the shine off the muffler with Scotch Brite pad. The Eastwood black on the muffler is really attached well and very tough as rattle can paint goes and my back and hands are wrecked for the day :( :( The worst part was getting the two narrow SS hose clamps at the engine end cut off with a cut-off wheel. They would NOT unscrew - paint + heat.
All this took just long enough to listen to both Blood On The Tracks and Bringin' It All Back Home on the record player machine which was just right pain-meterwise :)(http://)
I should have put the Before picture first. Oh, well.
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Looks superb! Those AVLs really are pretty engines, ain't they?...almost worth the sketchier parts availability as the price of admission.
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Nice looking bike!
Clean!
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And, every RE owner needs an old B&D workmate...
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Got mine!
A.
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Finally got a round tuit this afternoon. Phase 2 I guess we'll call it. Three coats half hour apart.
The paint in this this can seems more flat than satin even though the can says satin. I may write (with a picture) to Eastwoods. Might get a free can :)
PS: Had to use the rake because when you need a dowel you need a dowel :)(http://)
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My bud from Santa Fe asked me to mod his head a bit. After watching several youtube vids of "On yer Bike" the one that grabbed me is of his IB head cleanup.
His comments were spot on about horrible castings and "they must have trimmed it with an axe" :)
Noting that I have the tools needed for a decent cleanup I'm giving it a go.
Before:
(https://i.imgur.com/ytkHeUD.jpg)
In progress:
(https://i.imgur.com/o22HJ6O.jpg)
Tools used so far:
(https://i.imgur.com/u4ofPoL.jpg)
Didn't realize just HOW MUCH there is to clean up! :o
More pics later. :)
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And, tooseevee that's looking great! Another improvement on an already beautiful bike! ;D
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Now of course you run into that little issue of our Indian friends' love of powder-coating the AVL heads and barrels. So once you have ground and polished away the all the casting marks, you will be left with shiny bits sticking out against the 10+ year old powder coated finish of the rest of it.
Chemical stripping and vapor blasting will be needed to get back to bare alumin(i)um. After that, you can polish the edges of the fins.
A.
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Before:
(https://i.imgur.com/ytkHeUD.jpg)
In progress:
(https://i.imgur.com/o22HJ6O.jpg)
Didn't realize just HOW MUCH there is to clean up! :o
More pics later. :)
Sorry, but I can't see any difference?
Could you explain what you've done please?
Frank
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Sorry, WIP was the same pic.This is the correct one:
(https://i.imgur.com/1QX78SX.jpg)
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So far no chem stripping needed until I have to get in between the fins, maybe.
Vapor blasting is definitely in the plan, though.
Not sure if anything can be done about the pitting, but at least the flashings will be removed and the fin edges flattened.
After that, it's a toss up whether to alodyne or paint.
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Sorry, WIP was the same pic.This is the correct one:
That's better - Thanks!
Frank
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Sorry, but I can't see any difference?
Could you explain what you've done please?
Frank
He's a lonnng way from finished. Give it a chance :)[/img]
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My bud from Santa Fe asked me to mod his head a bit. After watching several youtube vids of "On yer Bike" the one that grabbed me is of his IB head cleanup.
His comments were spot on about horrible castings and "they must have trimmed it with an axe" :)
Noting that I have the tools needed for a decent cleanup I'm giving it a go.
Didn't realize just HOW MUCH there is to clean up! :o
More pics later. :)
I watched that one along with quite a few others. Those guys are a trip :D ;) :) ;D(http://)
I just don't have the hands (or any other joints) any more to start anything like that although I'd like to. Just doing what I did yesterday was a killer and now I think I'm going to have to respray. I don't think I like the totally flat look and I'm writing Eastwoods about it. The can says Satin and no way is it satin.
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Now of course you run into that little issue of our Indian friends' love of powder-coating the AVL heads and barrels.
After that, you can polish the edges of the fins.
A.
I wrinkle-blacked my barrel back when Ace was doing the head (2014?). That's not to say I would recommend wrinkle-blacking heads although it probably wouldn't hurt at all. It's just that there are tons of prep work involved before you sprayed otherwise it's a waste of time and effort.
The AVLs run pretty cool. I think doing the barrel is no danger. And it really is purty :) :) :)(http://)
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Sorry, but I can't see any difference?
Could you explain what you've done please?
Frank
Pretty sure he just uploaded two identical "Before" photos.
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Well, this A.M. pouring rain from very early. Now it's just greyyyyy :( :( :(
So. I brought the muffler up here on the coffee table where I can watch it for a while. The look is growing on me, I have to say that. Its saving grace is that it is Very black unlike flat paint that in the right light always shows a puff of "greyness" like vermouth in a martini - it shouldn't really be there, but usually is.
But it's still not "satin" as I think of a satin finish. Satin has a subtle inner "glow" that flat has not got :)(http://)
I'll decide by the weekend (not saying which day).
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So I finally stared at it long enough and put the header pipe on. I'll let the black goo I slathered all over the new gasket dry for a couple days.
The grey look is not real. It's from the flash. The true color is up near the head. It is Very black.
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I do like the look of that header! Post a pic when you get the silencer fitted, please!
What is the red wire snaking back to the rear mudguard?
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I do like the look of that header! Post a pic when you get the silencer fitted, please!
What is the red wire snaking back to the rear mudguard?
That's my Wicked Smaht Genius Battery Tender. It's hard-wired into the rear of the right side case which is where the Screamin' Yellow Zonkers Motobatt is.
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Hey fella,
What's the charm thing hanger off the starter?
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Hey fella,
What's the charm thing hanger off the starter?
It's a biker bell, given to me by a friend. Must be a gift from a friend or friends to work.
It's 3 (or4) faces of Ganesh. No, I'm not Hindu.
There's one on the other side that was given by my son. It's just a bell-shaped bell :)(http://)
No, you don't hear any dinging.
Goes back many years. Google it.
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Finally.....
Sorry took so long. Only 3 people here in AVL Land anyway :)
Managed a ten mile ride this morning. Froze to death. T-Shirt.
Finally HAD to get on it or I was afraid I might never.. It's running soooh good :) :)(http://)
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Seriously cool looking ride ya got there!
The darker header and silencer give it a much meaner look! 8)
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Seriously cool looking ride ya got there!
The darker header and silencer give it a much meaner look! 8)
Thanks. It's been a long, strange trip.
I wonder why my latest post #24 with the pictures and your Reply #25 are both labeled as Yesterday.
Some things about these forums get curiouser and curiouser.
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The server on one of the other forums I use has been down for a few hours, at least this one is still on-line.
Losing the pipe wrap has definitely smartened your AVL up, nice job.
A.
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The server on one of the other forums I use has been down for a few hours, at least this one is still on-line.
Losing the pipe wrap has definitely smartened your AVL up, nice job.
A.
You just kinda don't like the pipe wrap look, do you? :) That's OK.
I do, but on this bike I just got bored with it.
I do wish that this brand had turned out like the last brand of so-called "Satin" (that was on the muffler only previous lee). This brand is just not quite what I call Satin finish. But it's OK.
There's always next Spring, right? :) :)(http://) ... and it's running sooooh good and I'm So pissed off about my "limits" now >:( >:((http://)
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Managed a ten mile ride this morning. Froze to death. T-Shirt.
Finally HAD to get on it or I was afraid I might never.. It's running soooh good :) :)(http://)
I've definitely noticed how mine thrives on even a modicum of mechanical pamperage.
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You just kinda don't like the pipe wrap look, do you? :) That's OK.
Guilty as charged, tooseevee! ;) The plain black pipe on yours looks meaner, result.
What I'd like to find in the UK is someone doing the chrome effect ceramic coating, not sure we have anyone here doing that yet. Ordinary powder coating yes, but not the high-temp stuff, at least not chrome.
A.
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I sanded the pipe on my '08 classic with 400 grit then gave a it coat of rattle can VHT clear. I mostly wanted to keep the exhaust from discoloring. Looked great for a couple weeks until it picked up a couple gobs of road tar.
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I know where you guys are coming from but for me, I like the blues and purples on my chrome exhaust pipe.
It shows that this is not some babied, lived in a closet, motorcycle. It is a a real motorcycle that has been out there and lived it and done it and is damn proud of it.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
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I sanded the pipe on my '08 classic with 400 grit then gave a it coat of rattle can VHT clear. I mostly wanted to keep the exhaust from discoloring. Looked great for a couple weeks until it picked up a couple gobs of road tar.
How would a clearcoat keep an exhaust header pipe from discoloring? ???(http://)
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Guilty as charged, tooseevee! ;) The plain black pipe on yours looks meaner, result.
What I'd like to find in the UK is someone doing the chrome effect ceramic coating, not sure we have anyone here doing that yet. Ordinary powder coating yes, but not the high-temp stuff, at least not chrome.
A.
There's a fella up my end of the woods that does it, so I'm told.
That PChrome spraying sounds good.
S.
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How would a clearcoat keep an exhaust header pipe from discoloring? ???(http://)
Clear coat supposed to provide oxygen & moisture barrier to prevent oxidation. In practice the clear coat became a bit cloudy near the header.
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The way I figure it, my nicely colored exhaust with its purples and blues reached almost 900 degrees F to get those colors.
I don't know of any clear coat paint that can take those kind of temperatures without being destroyed.
(As I've said before, my Royal Enfield is proud of its multicolored exhaust header. )
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Clear coat supposed to provide oxygen & moisture barrier to prevent oxidation. In practice the clear coat became a bit cloudy near the header.
"provide oxygen"?
The pretty colors are not from oxidation. They are from heat. Clearcoat will not keep your header pipe from getting hot or keep it from coloring at certain temperatures. It's just physics.
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Head's finished, along with the tappet cover. Exhaust Port cleaned up and polished some and Valves lapped.
(https://i.imgur.com/oMJZWVJ.jpg)
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I like my alloy head and all, but damn if that ain't some pretty work there, Heloego. Very tidy. Very tidy indeed.
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Head's finished, along with the tappet cover. Exhaust Port cleaned up and polished some and Valves lapped.
Wow! Respects from MY dirty ol' garage I can tell you that! I can see, smell, hear, taste and feeeeel the work that shows there.
Well done!
Now what excuse can I come up with that my head needs to come off for ??? ??? ??? Hhhmmmmm
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Polished fin edges on alloy always look good, whether it's with a black coating, or better still (IMHO) with the castings stripped/blasted back to bare metal.
A.
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Thanks.
It's what the guy wanted and he's a happy (at the moment) customer. In his words, "I want it to look like an iron bridge across the River Liffey with 200 years of gloss black paint slapped on it."
OK.
It's only two coats each of high temp primer and paint, as I felt any more would seriously reduce the heat transfer from the fins. I'd have preferred to etch and have it black anodized, but his budget won't allow for it. As it is, My concern is how much hotter than normal the AVL is gonna run.
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Kal-Gard Gun Kote?
http://www.kal-gard.co.za/coatings/gun-kote.html
Scroll down here to see it used on motorcycle engines.
http://tedsshed.co.uk/paintwork-3/engine-coatings/
A.
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Kal-Gard not available here, but I've contacted a local outfit that can do hard anodizing in any color I want. They'll do the media blasting, too. Currently waiting for them to get back to me.
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Installed the Hitchcocks push-rod boots. Nice! These won't be jumping the tappets anytime soon! ;D
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Installed the Hitchcocks push-rod boots. Nice! These won't be jumping the tappets anytime soon! ;D
I have a pair of those on the shelf. Ordered them during the first or second year I had the '08.
What I found is that they were a hair too long to get in without lifting the head so the pushrods could be lifted a bit. So I didn't bother because at that stage of "straightening out" the bike from the shoddy detail work from the factory the last thing I wanted to do was partially disassemble the engine and break that seal at the head.
I thought of grinding a few thousandths off the bottom surface to squeeze them in, but never got a round tuit.
And THEN in 2014, when I pulled the head off to send it to Ace (our Wizard) I forgot to put them in! ??? ??? :-[ :-[ ???
So there they still sit on the shelf.
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Yep. Same here.
I ordered up two sets about a year ago and ran into the same thing. So they just sat until opportunity knocked. ::) I damned near forgot to install them, too. ::)
When I finally get the current project finished, it'll be time to get started on MY AVL and it'll get the same mod! ;D
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Yep. Same here.
I ordered up two sets about a year ago and ran into the same thing. So they just sat until opportunity knocked. ::) I damned near forgot to install them, too. ::)
When I finally get the current project finished, it'll be time to get started on MY AVL and it'll get the same mod! ;D
Hey, I'll be glad when you get around to your AVL. It's kind of boring here on the ol' AVL forum of late.
You will love what Ace does with your head. And with a decent carb and exhaust and the right amount of tweaking it will run so sweeeet :) :) :) :) you won't believe it.
But can Ace still do what he did with my head ? I've lost track of his Mondello connection.
Just look at that beautiful reshaping, the nice big valves, the ceramic coat, the nice little manifold for the TM32. Gorgeous 8) :)
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To some extent I've already upgraded my AVL. IIRC Ace doesn't want to do AVL head any more and I just couldn't afford anymore if he did. :(
A couple years ago I spent the winter working on the whole bike.
AVL got new valves, ported and polished (to some extent), VM32 carb, got rid of the PAV crap, and a stage 1 mod.
I'm really happy with the performance. I just forgot to add the pushrod mod. ::)
When I get back to it, the rod mod will be incorporated after I blast the head, clean up the fin edges, anodize it (and the barrel fins), and re-clean the fins for a nice shiny edge. :)
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To some extent I've already upgraded my AVL. IIRC Ace doesn't want to do AVL head any more and I just couldn't afford anymore if he did. :(
When I get back to it, the rod mod will be incorporated after I blast the head, clean up the fin edges, anodize it (and the barrel fins), and re-clean the fins for a nice shiny edge. :)
Anodize. Great choice. Does away with any discussion of what other coatings might do to heat transfer.
I wrinkle-blacked my barrel, but did nothing to the head. As soon as I reassembled it I wished I had had it blasted. Whatever that silver stuff on the head is just isn't a great look. To me anyway.
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IMO, wrinkle paint of any kind is about the worst thing to coat a cylinder or cylinder head with that a person could use. In order to wrinkle it has to be fairly thick and thick doesn't allow heat to go thru it. It also isn't designed to take high heat although the temperatures on a cylinder barrel don't get really hot. Cylinder heads on the other hand can easily get to be over 300 degrees F during normal operation.
There is a rattle can paint that is made expressly for conducting heat on the market. It is the stuff that's made for painting wood burning stoves and BBQ's. It goes on thin, has very good thermal conductivity and it can take really high temperatures.
Look for RustOleum High Heat Satin Bar B Que-Black-Spray-Paint
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IMO, wrinkle paint of any kind is about the worst thing to coat a cylinder or cylinder head with that a person could use. In order to wrinkle it has to be fairly thick and thick doesn't allow heat to go thru it. It also isn't designed to take high heat although the temperatures on a cylinder barrel don't get really hot. Cylinder heads on the other hand can easily get to be over 300 degrees F during normal operation.
There is a rattle can paint that is made expressly for conducting heat on the market. It is the stuff that's made for painting wood burning stoves and BBQ's. It goes on thin, has very good thermal conductivity and it can take really high temperatures.
Look for RustOleum High Heat Satin Bar B Que-Black-Spray-Paint
Ohmygod I'll have to tear the whole thing down now and blast it off and do it all over.....
I heated my whole house exclusively (1970-1982) with a Fisher Papa Bear that got stove blacked every few years and since then over the years have also used it on some bike parts. Good stuff.
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The powder coating on the AVL head and barrel is quite stubborn, I had an Electra-X top end stripped, but my local vapour - sorry, vapor blaster had to use chemical stripper on it first. Yuk. How well does anodizing take on cast alloy?
A.
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The powder coating on the AVL head and barrel is quite stubborn, I had an Electra-X top end stripped, but my local vapour - sorry, vapor blaster had to use chemical stripper on it first. Yuk. How well does anodizing take on cast alloy?
A.
Ya got me there. I dunno. I'd hafta go to the Google Machine.
All I know there's no thickness to it. If it turns sideways, it disappears :o ; like Two Dimension Man ;) ;)
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This came up at the top of the list when I Googled "Anodize":
https://www.wikihow.com/Anodize-Aluminum (https://www.wikihow.com/Anodize-Aluminum)
As stated in the DYI instructions, it works very well for aluminum.
I also thought the recommendation to test it with an older offspring might work well (as a discipline measure), too. Give 'em a taste of what it could be like in prison. ;)
Anodizing and Alodining serve the same purpose: Corrosion protection.
While Anodizing is a chemical process that coats and changes the surface molecules, the Anodizing process is electro-chemical.
I'm already familiar with the Alodine process. Did a lot of that with Bonderite 1132 working on the Gulf due to the salty humidity. Color selection is limited, though it is available in Clear and food coloring or other dye could be added I guess. I'll need to get some and test it with coloring. ???
(Interesting: On the Google search results page the sidebar has a link to power supply for "mere" $224!
It's exactly the same PS I got for under $50 on e-bay. Maybe I should make a label with a fancy name and sell mine for $224. A $175 profit ain't bad at all. 8) )
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Aluminum castings are anodized all the time for corrosion protection and sometimes to add color to them.
The only catch is, there can not be any iron or steel parts on/in the casting so things like valve seats and valve guides would have to be removed before doing the process.
While very simple anodizing can be done fairly simply, color anodizing needs to be done by companies who specialize in it. They have the chemicals to do all of the cleaning and coating processes the right way.
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The only catch is, there can not be any iron or steel parts on/in the casting so things like valve seats and valve guides would have to be removed before doing the process.
That's a LOT of hassle for an AVL engine, cylinder liner as well as valve seats, just for a surface treatment? Bare alloy seems to last well enough.
A.
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" The only catch is, there can not be any iron or steel parts on/in the casting so things like valve seats and valve guides would have to be removed before doing the process."
That does seem excessive just to anodize.
Dissimilar metals corrosion?
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The anodizing processes use strong acids in addition to electricity to do the job.
These work together to dissolve any metal other than aluminum so basically, the steel or iron inserts will be dissolved. The aluminum will also be damaged by the dissimilar corrosion you mentioned.
In other words, yes, everything will get damaged.
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Thanks, A.
That precludes any anodizing any time soon.
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Thanks, A.
That precludes any anodizing any time soon.
Believe it or not, flat barbecue black paint has about 98% IR emissivity, and that about the best you can get from any paint or coating. Thermal conductivity to the air is reduced by about 10% according to some scientific tests that I have seen, regarding most types of paint on metal.
The good thing about the barbecue black is that it is cheap and easy to touch up when it gets worn or chipped.
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I'd already used the VHT Gloss Black on this one. Touch-up will be minimal, and there's no reason it shouldn't run as cool as my AVL since it's the same formula.
Here's the progress so far. Gear box and chain case have been oiled, but I'll wait until the front end is installed before I go about the engine oil and fire it up.
Gave the covers a bit of TLC, too.
(https://i.imgur.com/9vup5aA.jpg)
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My word, but that's a pretty engine! And after all that sanding and buffing, he can't have any fingerprints left! It would almost have been the makings of "The Perfect Crime" were it not for his reflection in the timing case!
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Glad I remembered to wear clothes! :o
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I'd already used the VHT Gloss Black on this one. Touch-up will be minimal, and there's no reason it shouldn't run as cool as my AVL since it's the same formula.
Here's the progress so far. Gear box and chain case have been oiled, but I'll wait until the front end is installed before I go about the engine oil and fire it up.
Gave the covers a bit of TLC, too.
I'm sure you realize that you're making me F-ing nuts, don't you? :) :)
Great googley moogaly that's nice 8)
P.S.: I don't think what is used to coat or paint the cylinder OR the head amounts to a hill of beans as far as cooling is concerned. And even if it does, it is such a tiny piece of the equation as to not matter at all real lifewise. I built a bike (a 1980) in 1986 piece by piece; total Mattel Kit rebuild. Every piece was either H of K black lacquer or wrinkle black including the transmission which alone I spent weeks on prepping; two years in total. I rode it 'til I sold it in 1998 with no problems and the wrinkle black still looked bright and black. The buyer flew to the east coast with his brother to truck the bike back to Iowa in a rented U-Haul and he was a very happy boy. They spent two days at my house going over every detail and history.
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120 Days! Jeezus!
Been an interesting last three months. Haven't had many moments to spare on the project other than re-painting the casquette top (Don't ask >:( ).
Back in December my boss died. Add to that the loss of a tech a few months earlier and now we're down to 50% staff trying to keep up with a 66% increase in the helicopter fleet. Been freakin' CRAZY since the 1st of the year, and I've been averaging only four days off/month since, so no real updates at this time. And no rides since then, either. Best I've been able to do is a weekly startup of the bike.
And the whole Covid thingie doesn't come into the picture much since I'm considered "Essential Personnel" and carry a Company letter to present to authorities during lockdown, so it's not like I get to stay home and get caught up on the project. :(
Oh, well. This, too, shall pass.
The current upside is that travel to/from work is almost a pleasure now due to the dramatically reduced traffic. ;D
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120 Days! Jeezus!
Been an interesting last three months. Haven't had many moments to spare on the project other than re-painting the casquette top (Don't ask >:( ).
Back in December my boss died. Add to that the loss of a tech a few months earlier and now we're down to 50% staff trying to keep up with a 66% increase in the helicopter fleet. Been freakin' CRAZY since the 1st of the year, and I've been averaging only four days off/month since, so no real updates at this time. And no rides since then, either. Best I've been able to do is a weekly startup of the bike.
And the whole Covid thingie doesn't come into the picture much since I'm considered "Essential Personnel" and carry a Company letter to present to authorities during lockdown, so it's not like I get to stay home and get caught up on the project. :(
Oh, well. This, too, shall pass.
The current upside is that travel to/from work is almost a pleasure now due to the dramatically reduced traffic. ;D
I hear being an A&P is becoming a real career nowdays.
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Is the Mikuni VM round slide easier to work with than the TM flat slide relative to getting the cable attached to the slide and getting that spring depressed & getting that %#%@*MF^&*^CS%$^&*bstrd cap back on & the screws in? >:( >:((http://)
It is a plain and simple nightmare for me to do with my hands and wrists (and the rest of me) being what they are.
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It's quite a while since I worked on a Mikuni VM32 but I seem to recall fitting it to my tuned up BSA B40 was easy enough. That was in 1994, though!
I do have a Dell'Orto PHF32 that's not got anything to do at the moment.
A.
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It's quite a while since I worked on a Mikuni VM32 but I seem to recall fitting it to my tuned up BSA B40 was easy enough. That was in 1994, though!
I do have a Dell'Orto PHF32 that's not got anything to do at the moment.
A.
You're too far away and I'm too old :) :)(http://)
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The VM might be a bit easier than the TM for the spring. But not much easier. It all comes down to the throttle cable length, and the cable adjuster.
I have always had a hard time with it. Having someone else to provide a "3rd hand" can help.
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You're too far away and I'm too old :) :)
Well, fitting throttle springs around cable ends and slides can be a fiddle for young or old with ANY carb. I notice Dell'Orto have three different strengths of throttle spring.
The alternative would be one of the Mikuni pumper 4 stroke flat slide carbs, either the TM33-something or the TM36-31 which I had on my old Electra-X. These have twin push-pull throttle cables, you wrap the ends round a wheel thingy where the ferrule sits in a slot, a bit like the twistgrip. Your switchgear cluster on the r/h handlebar is single cable, but being copied from Suzuki switchgear is easily be adaptable to twin cable. Let me see if I can find a picture or two.
My old TM36-31 (also currently resting between bikes). The TM33 is a different shape, but I remember a few years ago someone had fitted one successfully. Mounting for the 36-31 is best with a modified XT/SR500 Yamaha carb rubber flange, the only real problem with the 36 is that it's a tight fit under the rear gas tank mount. Given Ace's preference for not using larger bore carbs I suspect the TM33-? would suit your inlet tract better.
(https://i.postimg.cc/L889mZPs/DSCN7690.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Twin cable throttle. The twin cables for the EFI models' throttle bodies look as though they'd fit, they appear to work on the same principle, the twist grip barrel from an EFI should also do the job. Mine plundered some used Suzuki parts!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bn7qbQ5B/DSCN3714.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Last I heard, international postal services are still operating. ;)
A.
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Well, fitting throttle springs around cable ends and slides can be a fiddle for young or old with ANY carb. I notice Dell'Orto have three different strengths of throttle spring.
The alternative would be one of the Mikuni pumper 4 stroke flat slide carbs, either the TM33-something or the TM36-31 which I had on my old Electra-X. These have twin push-pull throttle cables, you wrap the ends round a wheel thingy where the ferrule sits in a slot, a bit like the twistgrip. Your switchgear cluster on the r/h handlebar is single cable, but being copied from Suzuki switchgear is easily be adaptable to twin cable. Let me see if I can find a picture or two.
My old TM36-31 (also currently resting between bikes). The TM33 is a different shape, but I remember a few years ago someone had fitted one successfully. Mounting for the 36-31 is best with a modified XT/SR500 Yamaha carb rubber flange, the only real problem with the 36 is that it's a tight fit under the rear gas tank mount. Given Ace's preference for not using larger bore carbs I suspect the TM33-? would suit your inlet tract better.
Twin cable throttle. The twin cables for the EFI models' throttle bodies look as though they'd fit, they appear to work on the same principle, the twist grip barrel from an EFI should also do the job. Mine plundered some used Suzuki parts!
Last I heard, international postal services are still operating. ;)
A.
I believe I will leave well enough alone. Bike starts good, runs Grrrate, no problems in any gear or at any RPM, smooth as pigsh*t. I doubt I'll even be able to be on the road. I'll get hauled in on a trumped-up charge of "Solitary Biking".
I'm gonna stick with the bitch I know rather than take on another bitch I Don't know.
Thanks for the offer and all the words.
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Update:
The AVL Classic has come along nicely (I figure 80% completed.), but I've run into a snag in the electrical.
All that's left is to deal with these two connectors, both 2-pin, and originally labeled for my convenience. Problem is I now have no connectors to match up to these. One is male, the other female, and both come out of what appears to be a gang box or power distributor. The long pigtail with the 2-pin connector is labeled "Multi A" referring to the box labeled "Multi", the other I simply labeled "Unknown" and it also comes from the box. So I got out the wiring diagram and...
MULTIPLE checks of the Wiring Diagram have left me stumped, as I simply cannot see this box anywhere in the damned thing! I'm either blind, a fool, or both but I could sure use a push in the right direction.
If I can get this done, all that's left is a to finish tidying up the wiring, install the seat, fire it up and go from there.
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Update:
The AVL Classic has come along nicely (I figure 80% completed.), but I've run into a snag in the electrical.
All that's left is to deal with these two connectors, both 2-pin, and originally labeled for my convenience. Problem is I now have no connectors to match up to these. One is male, the other female, and both come out of what appears to be a gang box or power distributor. The long pigtail with the 2-pin connector is labeled "Multi A" referring to the box labeled "Multi", the other I simply labeled "Unknown" and it also comes from the box. So I got out the wiring diagram and...
MULTIPLE checks of the Wiring Diagram have left me stumped, as I simply cannot see this box anywhere in the damned thing! I'm either blind, a fool, or both but I could sure use a push in the right direction.
If I can get this done, all that's left is a to finish tidying up the wiring, install the seat, fire it up and go from there.
Good morning!
I'm only responding so you don't think that I don't care :) Any activity on the AVL Channel is welcome because there sure ain't much activity nowadays :)(http://)
I'm so bored I had to go into the exhaust again just for something to do and ordered a header pipe from Hitchcocks that I don't "really" need, but as Dylan said many years ago: "People got a lot of forks and knives. Gotta cut something". So the black bitch is going to be wearing chrome again -at least for while.
Anyway. I have no clue what that black box is so all I can do is wish you luck. I assume there are no numbers or anything on it that would interest Google? You woulda done that already.
Carry on :) :)(http://)
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Yeah, been pretty dry here for awhile.
Since the first of the year I've had almost ZERO time to do anything with this project. Those pigtails were labeled over a YEAR ago.Now that I'm retired I've made serious progress with this thing, and then THIS.That thing has to be in the wiring diagram somewhere, dammit. Or not. ;)
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Yeah, been pretty dry here for awhile.
Since the first of the year I've had almost ZERO time to do anything with this project. Those pigtails were labeled over a YEAR ago.Now that I'm retired I've made serious progress with this thing, and then THIS.That thing has to be in the wiring diagram somewhere, dammit. Or not. ;)
I dunnoh.. I've spent a lot of time, a LOT, studying and staring at, and a lot of it with a magnifying glass, at AVL schematics over the years that I've been faddiddalling with this bike since I got it toward the end of 2009 brand new and I've never seen anything except the black boxes that are 'sposta be there; like the TCI (Green or Black), the Regulator/Rectifier, the main starter relay, the delay box (which I removed when I got the Green TCI).
You'll remember that I unwrapped the whole harness and did a lot of "repairs" and also made all the wires to the rear new. I stared at schematics a LOT.
I don't know what that box does, but I don't think it's on the AVL schematics.
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Blue and white, is that for the starter solenoid/relay?
A.
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Blue and white, is that for the starter solenoid/relay?
A.
Things that make you go "Hhhhmmmm...".
And easily proven for him.
And what you say is true for mine; Blue/White wire and a Black one. I should have caught that, but there's more empty space between my ears now :)(http://)
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Starter relay is already hooked up. Both sides of the connector were tagged "ST Relay" When I took it apart.I guess the proof in the pudding will be when I energize the system. ::)
This is what happens when a project gets neglected for way too long.
Pisses me off that RE just didn't think they needed this item in their Wiring Diagram.
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Starter relay is already hooked up. Both sides of the connector were tagged "ST Relay" When I took it apart.I guess the proof in the pudding will be when I energize the system. ::)
This is what happens when a project gets neglected for way too long.
Pisses me off that RE just didn't think they needed this item in their Wiring Diagram.
Can we see what it looks like with it out of that black plastic sleeve or tube?
Or is it the black box we're talking about?
I'm losin' it :) :)(http://) AWFUL hot here today and I mowed grass and I shouldn't have :(
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This is the mystery item.
You're looking at the back of the unit which I had labeled "Multi" when I removed it over a year ago.
From the top, connectors were labeled "Multi A", "TCI", "ST Relay", and "UNK".
"Multi A" is an unknown."TCI" is at this time I believe correct."ST Relay" has been discovered to be incorrect and is now an unknown."UNK" is still to be determined.
I think this is a power distribution module, but it simply is not included in any of the schematics I have on hand.
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I don't know what it is, but I would find where it was originally mounted, and see what is within the reach of the wires.
From the looks of it, I might suspect a flasher or turn signal related thingie.
Have you tried testing with an ohmmeter, and/or applied any voltage to see what it does?
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Chasing wires to find the correct Start Relay I did succeed, but after an hour or so unwrapping the gawd-awful electrical tape, we discovered just how much loving care went into their mess of an electrical harness. The workmanship really cracks me up. :o I know others can sympathize. ;)
FYI, the 14g blue/white and 14g black wires are for the start relay.
Powered up the systems, and so far headlight, signals, tail light, and start relay are working fine, but I can see all of today just cleaning up this harness.
Back to "The Thing"...
I looked at my '06 ElectraX and it doesn't seem to have one of these things on it, and I recall it was installed either on the battery tray or in the left-hand side box. Since one of the leads is definitely for the TCI, I'm left with 3 leads. The problem as i see it is that I currently have no available leads left on the bike to connect to. :o
Since the TCI is involved I gotta figure this out somehow. Back-tracing the wires in the schematic from the TCI should give me a clue, but....
Time to get out the Multi-Tester and dig in.
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The "thing" looks like the spark-delay unit. This was meant to be a temporary fix on Electra-Xs to combat the rising tide of bang-crunch sprag clutch failures: the momentary power drain caused by electric start er... kicking in could cause a voltage drop across the system, which in turn could cause the TCI box to go on full advance, same as the Boyer Mk3 analog ignition could do on an electric start Norton Commando. The second or so's delay would let the crank spin up a bit better and (chuck out more juice from the alternator) before the spark circuitry engaged.
The UK importer at the time (and presumably CMW) eventually brought out a TCI box with the spark delay already built in, these were green opposed to the originals which were black, and offered as a free upgrade, at least in the UK.
So what color is your TCI box? If it's black you'll need to keep the delay box, if it's green you can remove it.
A.
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I've replaced the black TCI with a new Green TCI unit, so your response is very welcome, and THANKS!
Now to get back to the schematic and run a 2-pin connection to the last TCI connector. :)
This forum should be immortalized!
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The "thing" still available. Hitchcocks' bought out Watsonian-Squire's spares stock when they ceased being the UK RE importer and presumably still have a few of these to shift. ;D
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/ignition/10593
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Chasing wires to find the correct Start Relay I did succeed, but after an hour or so unwrapping the gawd-awful electrical tape, we discovered just how much loving care went into their mess of an electrical harness. The workmanship really cracks me up. :o I know others can sympathize. ;)
FYI, the 14g blue/white and 14g black wires are for the start relay.
Powered up the systems, and so far headlight, signals, tail light, and start relay are working fine, but I can see all of today just cleaning up this harness.
Back to "The Thing"...
I looked at my '06 ElectraX and it doesn't seem to have one of these things on it, and I recall it was installed either on the battery tray or in the left-hand side box. Since one of the leads is definitely for the TCI, I'm left with 3 leads. The problem as i see it is that I currently have no available leads left on the bike to connect to. :o
Since the TCI is involved I gotta figure this out somehow. Back-tracing the wires in the schematic from the TCI should give me a clue, but....
Time to get out the Multi-Tester and dig in.
YES!!! :) :)(http://)
I missed ALL of this since Friday. Had a Scam Scare and had to shut down EVERYTHING! Bank accounts, etc. Nightmare.
Yes, that's the Spark Delay box. I removed mine years ago when I got the Green TCI from Kevin for free. My delay box was in the left side case with the starter relay.
And I feel for you. Your picture shows the wire nightmare I went through with mine years ago.
Use the '50s style, non-sticky, cloth harness wrapping tape to rewrap it. It's Grrrrate stuff!
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I'm STILL feeling bad about sending you on a wild goose chase with that pattern Suzuki TCI, tooseevee! Glad the green box is working well.
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Taking a break from the TCI issue now.
After removing what seemed like a mile of that horrid electrical tape from the harness, and bowing and shaking my head at the appalling workmanship I trimmed all the wiring back loops as needed, and replace all the f*cked up crimp splices with much neater heat shrink solder splices.
All wiring will be wrapped with some really cool Woven Wire Loom and, where able, a vinyl boot will be added.
The LH and RH side boxes have been removed and binned. Replaced with a LH box assembled with an aluminum project box found on Amazon.
Lithium Battery and new Start Relay to be in a Fake Oil Tank. Fabricated a mount for the Relay, and using a 4 inch drawer slide with the guts removed, shaped to conform to the inside wall of the "tank", lined bottom with some anti-chafe tape. Battery now mounts securely and fits beautifully in the "tank".
The opposite side allows access to the relay, and for fun a fake Sight Glass was added.
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Here's the RH side of the "tank" with Fake Sight Glass.
Fitting held in place using 3/8" expansion nuts, the "glass" is vinyl tubing with a bit of oil for effect, and slices of heat shrink added as "Low" and "Full" markers.
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Looks cool!
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I'm STILL feeling bad about sending you on a wild goose chase with that pattern Suzuki TCI, tooseevee! Glad the green box is working well.
A.
Nah. I learned a lot along the way doing "Wires In, Wires Out". It was just part of the saga.
I still have your schematic of the pins with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of......., but the mind wanders :) ;)(http://)
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Sounds like you're ready for a stop at Alice's. ;)
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Quick one to refresh my ailing memory (Right there with ya, tooseevee ;) ).
Sidestand switch...
When the sidestand is down, is it normally open, or closed?
(Will determine whether I make a dummy plug for the brown socket on the TCI or leave it alone.)
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Quick one to refresh my ailing memory (Right there with ya, tooseevee ;) ).
Sidestand switch...
When the sidestand is down, is it normally open, or closed?
(Will determine whether I make a dummy plug for the brown socket on the TCI or leave it alone.)
I believe it's normally open, but the real "schematic understanders' should also chime in to cover my ass. I guess maybe it closes when you turn the key on and then won't start 'til you put it up? I don't know - I'm just guessing :) ??? ??? ???
I unplugged mine years ago and did away with the connectors and wires from both the kickstand and at the TCI. I cut the TCI connector plug off flush with the surface of the TCI and sealed the exposed wire ends up with a slather of J-BWeld. Now it's not in the way :)(http://)
Today I did a lot of little jobs one of which was cleaning two years of built up leaves, twigs, pine needles & crap from around the edges of two large Velux skylites I installed in the roof of my deck probably 20 years ago; one 1/2 of the deck length has a shallow pitched roof which is why the crap doesn't get washed off by the rain &/or wind. I did it today because it was cold and cloudy early this AM. I try to do it every two or so years. A few hours later it was insufferably hot and I'm totally F-ing useless now in the heat.
It's the last time I'll do that job. I felt real twitchy up there this time. I guess it's about 16 feet above the driveway. And I still can't believe now that I installed those damn Sky Lites by myself.
I came up a 1/2 hour ago (about 7:30) from a 1/2 hour of cleaning all the old crap out of the exhaust port (RTV). Then I red LockTite-ed the transition piece into the engine end of the new pipe. And quit. I may even get it on tomorrow :)
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Sounds like you're ready for a stop at Alice's. ;)
I remember back in the day my favorite FM stations played it every Thanksgiving at 12 noon for many many years. Even that has gone away, I suppose.
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Sure has.
I'm not even sure the DJ's around here even remember it. Great Story, as Arlo told it, and true to boot!
Any more the radio stations don't have the same model they had in the day...
Remember "Suitable for Taping" or its equivalent when FM first really got started? No commercials, and new stuff all the time. Now it's just somebody's idea of great Classics playlists interspersed with banal talk, stupid jokes, and entirely too many ads for Male "T" problems. >:(
I've pretty much quit listening to the shyte and go to Amazon to download what I want to hear.
Back to the Switch...It's most likely normally open, but my memory fails once in awhile, and the schematic doesn't say, though the illustration does show it open.
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Thanks, Tom! Most of this is at the owner's request.
He wanted a totally different bike this time, not just a prettied up OEM.
Next is to change oil/filter and get it running again, then throw on the tank, fit the seat to his satisfaction, then get it on the street to dial in the carb (or replace it with a VM32 kit if the CV isn't up to the task).
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I cleaned the header pipe with Invisible Glass around 10 when it got too hot to work on my deck. The garage is cool ("20 Degrees Cooler Inside"*). Slathered her up with black RTV and shoved it home. Did the nuts up nice and even and snugged her up. It's a nice pipe; I put the HD plastic sleeve on to install it to avoid oily hand prints that will bake in if you forget.
It's solid as a rock installed.
It's a slightly different curve which makes the horizontal part end up on a downward plane to the rear. It's a 1/2" (inch) further outboard at the horizontal C/L of the oil filter cap and lower. The OEM pipe just barely kissed the cap at that point.
At the position of the point on the frame where the muffler support stud is, the muffler bracket that slides onto that stud ends up by this time 2" (inches) lower and quite a bit more outboard.
Everything has a hidden unintended consequence, but that's OK. I'll kidnap an itinerant welder and bend him to my will :)
PS: No pictures. The camera OR the program after many years declines to download the pictures from the camera. OR it's the camera.
* Remember the signs with the icicles at the theaters in the '50s?
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and quite a bit more outboard.[/quote0
Remember to check kickstart lever clearance if you haven't already done so. I can't remember if you still have the original type or one of the later UCE types with a wide fold out.
A.
(https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/570242-ALT-1200.jpg)
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and quite a bit more outboard.[/quote0
Remember to check kickstart lever clearance if you haven't already done so. I can't remember if you still have the original type or one of the later UCE types with a wide fold out.
A.
I have both and have used both. Each has its own "feeling". I'll check it later; I'm wore out today, this week, this month.
And there's no way I could bend that pipe. The solution has to be in cutting the front brackets off both the small bottle and the harley muffler, fabbing a new shaped bracket for each and welding them on. Then fabbing a new, longer, rear support.
Actually, that pipe is SO rigid that just the rear muffler support bracket might be sufficient. I could use 1/8" x 1" bar stock. You could lift the bike with that :)(http://)
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Quote: Everything has a hidden unintended consequence...
How true. As they say, "Pride goeth before a fall."
Pleased with my effort at cleaning up the wiring harness, I serviced the engine, primed the oil in the rocker feeds and verified oil to the rockers by hand-pumping the kicker. Big smile on my face, I turned the key "on", verified all lights working correctly, and hit the starter button.
Nothing.
SO I get to go back into all that covered wiring and figure it out. Again. ;D
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Quote: Everything has a hidden unintended consequence...
How true. As they say, "Pride goeth before a fall."
Pleased with my effort at cleaning up the wiring harness, I serviced the engine, primed the oil in the rocker feeds and verified oil to the rockers by hand-pumping the kicker. Big smile on my face, I turned the key "on", verified all lights working correctly, and hit the starter button.
Nothing.
SO I get to go back into all that covered wiring and figure it out. Again. ;D
Just got home from an hour at my bank unfreezing all my accounts from the scam scare of last week and I read THIS :( :( What a kick in the ass !
I'm reminded of Dylan's words from many, many years ago: "...waiting to hear what price you have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice"? from Stuck In Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again.
(BTW The Memphis Blues was a baseball team. The reference is just one of Dylan's thousands of double meanings).
Good luck, my friend.
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It's solid as a rock installed.
It's a slightly different curve which makes the horizontal part end up on a downward plane to the rear. It's a 1/2" (inch) further outboard at the horizontal C/L of the oil filter cap and lower. The OEM pipe just barely kissed the cap at that point.
At the position of the point on the frame where the muffler support stud is, the muffler bracket that slides onto that stud ends up by this time 2" (inches) lower and quite a bit more outboard.
Put the harley muffler on yesterday (I've got a LOT of other stuff going on, more than I WANT) and the difference in the curve is such that at the rear muffler stud point, it's a full 3" lower and I Do Not Like It. The horizontal run of the pipe is no longer parallel with the floor and it's very obvious to the eye.
How much weight do we think it would take to bend that pipe?
Would the studs rip out of the head using a bottle jack with someone also sitting on the bike?
(I know the answer already. I just need to start a discussion).
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IF you do it yourself: to avoid damaging the pipe during bending, remove it, fill it with sand, and find a suitable pipe bender or something to help.
Probably best to take it to a muffler shop and have them bend it.Should only cost a few $$ and the pipe won't get damaged.
Maybe. ;)
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Back to the current project:
Started with the relay and worked forward.
Verified the new relay wasn't delivered T.U. Checked continuity through the coil, but no voltage when applied.
Inspected all wiring up to the RH switch module. No discrepancies noted. All my corrective work was just fine.
Turns out to be the bad locking interface between the new Clutch Switch, and its connector. (Same as the old clutch switch! >:( )
There's about 3-4mm left over from the locking loop on the harness side to the lock on the switch side, and the harness connector tends to back out of the switch until there's no good connection between the terminals. A bit of contact enhancer and tightening up the harness side makes it all right again. :)
No luck trying a new connector to compare with the OEM one. Same. Same.
The locking pin on the new switch is inexplicably too long.
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IF you do it yourself: to avoid damaging the pipe during bending, remove it, fill it with sand, and find a suitable pipe bender or something to help.
Probably best to take it to a muffler shop and have them bend it.Should only cost a few $$ and the pipe won't get damaged.
Maybe. ;)
Thanks for the response. I've considered both the sand and taking it to a muffler shop.
BUT! What I can't think up is a way to clamp the pipe INTO the pipe bender at a muffler shop to be be sure it is bent exactly straight UP relative to how it mounts on the bike.
I can't take a chance on it being bent inboard OR outboard.
C'mon, guys. I need your brain power.
Maybe I can get a dimension from the C/L of the horizontal run over to the C/L of the exhaust port end.
OR mark the exact BOTTOM of the horizontal part (as it's mounted) with a magic marker. I think THAT might do it.
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Marking the bottom center line of the header from the bend to the end should be adequate for the shop to align it in the bender properly.
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Marking the bottom center line of the header from the bend to the end should be adequate for the shop to align it in the bender properly.
In between "other things" (damn!) I got the pipe all marked up and off. Now I just need to call for an appointment and go talk to "the bender" at Midas. I Do NOT want it scratched up right off or I'll hafta paint the damn thing black right off and I want to look at it chrome for awhile.
And just for info the 91020 Exhaust Pipe, Standard Length, 500 Electra X, UK Made from Hitchcock's is SHORTER than the OEM double wall with hot tube pipe that came on my January 2008 AVL Front Drum Brake Classic. I didn't try to measure it carefully, but it's a good 2" (two inches) shorter about which I do not care.
I wonder how many friggin' pipes are out there. The part # in my Parts Book is 510807/c which I'll bet is for the Front Disc Brake Electra with the different tin boxes than my front drum brake Classic.
My parts catalog is Part #597395.
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In between "other things" (damn!) I got the pipe all marked up and off. Now I just need to call for an appointment and go talk to "the bender" at Midas. I Do NOT want it scratched up right off or I'll hafta paint the damn thing black right off and I want to look at it chrome for awhile.
And just for info the 91020 Exhaust Pipe, Standard Length, 500 Electra X, UK Made from Hitchcock's is SHORTER than the OEM double wall with hot tube pipe that came on my January 2008 AVL Front Drum Brake Classic. I didn't try to measure it carefully, but it's a good 2" (two inches) shorter about which I do not care.
I wonder how many friggin' pipes are out there. The part # in my Parts Book is 510807/c which I'll bet is for the Front Disc Brake Electra with the different tin boxes than my front drum brake Classic.
My parts catalog is Part #597395.
Another difference is the OEM pipe that came on my '08 has a continuous curve from the head to the horizontal bottom part.
This new pipe has a straight section within the curve half way between the head and the horizontal part.
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When I'd seen the new "improved" header pipe on other bikes I've always thought they looked a bit out of place due to the sharper bend. There was nothing wrong with the curve of the OEM pipe and a newer pipe with the same bend would not detract from the Classic look. The style you received sounds like it was designed for the UCE.
Maybe I'm just too critical, though. ;)
Are you able to extend or adjust the frame-side mounting bracket to accommodate the silencer-side mount?
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Idled the AVL on the stand yesterday with the original BS29 CV carb with original jets. OAT notwithstanding the the beast was really hot after about 5 minutes. Actually had the oils from minor leaks smoking. Definitely too lean. Re-jetted the needle jet from 110 to 115. Not much of a difference. Still too hot too soon.
Rockers noisy, too. Need to re-adjust lifters to spec. Pulled the access cap off and noted one of the jam nuts had worked loose.
Today we basically just fabricated a couple seat brackets, re-painted the "oil tank" end caps, and applied decals to same.
Cosmetically all that's left is to fit the seat and come up with a fix for the petcock/choke plunger knob interference.
Mechanically we need to get this thing running right so we don't end up with an expensive, nice looking Street Brick. >:(
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When I'd seen the new "improved" header pipe on other bikes I've always thought they looked a bit out of place due to the sharper bend. There was nothing wrong with the curve of the OEM pipe and a newer pipe with the same bend would not detract from the Classic look. The style you received sounds like it was designed for the UCE.
Maybe I'm just too critical, though. ;)
No, it's for the Electra (if THAT's even true). That's what the ad says and I ordered it anyway :-[ :-[ :-[
I "knew" in the back of my mind from the very get-go that this pipe would somehow not be right. I knew this from long experience over many years that you have to be very careful with catalogs (and this includes Hitchcocks) and also I don't in any way cast aspersions on whoever it was who suggested that that might be the "right" pipe for a 2008 AVL Classic. It's not his fault. It's not my fault. It's not even really Hitchcock's fault either.
It's my poor old AVL's fault. It's a neglected model. An orphan child. It's a hybrid, a mongrel, a chimera. I guess you gotta call it an endangered species now. It's like that stupid, f**king Motaur ad. It's half of one thing and 1/2 of another. And the pipe I got may or may NOT be exactly the one the OWNer of an Electra thought HE was going to get. Who knows ???(http://) Quien sabe??
To prove my point, go in and find me an AVL section. Find me anything that specifically, clearly says it the same as the one that came on your untouched 2008 AVL Classic. In fact Search on 2008 AVL Classic. Search on AVL.
Ebay people's descriptions and specs are maybe the worst. Most of them something like "Royal Enfield O-Ring". I know that's a little hyper bole, but it's close to truth.
The ad sez this pipe is for the Electra. That's what the ad says. NOWHERE does it say AVL Classic. I shouldn't have ordered it. My fault.
Is Hitchcocks "Loooong pipe" the right (correct) one ? Who knows?
Somewhere "out there" (Maybe!) is an exact single wall replacement for the OEM pipe that came on THIS 2008 AVL Classic, but godonlyknows where ??? ??? :) :) ;) ;)
More on the pipe I have later. The plot thickens. Like tar on your boots in August.
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Could just be an aftermarket pipe-bender's error tooseevee? H's stuff is usually good but they or their suppliers do occasionally just get it wrong. If it's a poor fit for yours it will probably manifest exactly the same problem on an Electra-X
I wouldn't make too much of the AVL Classic versus Electra-X, as far as I can tell the differences are limited to the drum brake Bullet front end, the different tinware for the toolboxes/battery tray/airbox and the rear fender brackets, possibly the gas shox on the Electra-X are a tad longer, too, does the AVL classic have those? That MIGHT be a clue. However the frame is the same bunch of tubes with a few different brackets, the swinging arm is the same, both bikes have 19 inch wheels fore and aft, same rear wheel on both bikes. The engine and gearbox are identical.
I am however sorry if I have misguided you once again. :-[ In closing I will note that H's have a one-off US-made Electra-X long pipe in their special offers section, though I understand if you're not about to risk another order anytime soon. Have you contracted H's at all?
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/special-offers/exhausts/35799
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Could just be an aftermarket pipe-bender's error tooseevee? H's stuff is usually good but they or their suppliers do occasionally just get it wrong. If it's a poor fit for yours it will probably manifest exactly the same problem on an Electra-X
Could be. Who knows? I know H's stuff is usually good. This model madness isn't their fault. It just comes with the territory.
I wouldn't make too much of the AVL Classic versus Electra-X, as far as I can tell the differences are limited to the drum brake Bullet front end, the different tinware for the toolboxes/battery tray/airbox and the rear fender brackets, possibly the gas shox on the Electra-X are a tad longer, too, does the AVL classic have those? That MIGHT be a clue. However the frame is the same bunch of tubes with a few different brackets, the swinging arm is the same, both bikes have 19 inch wheels fore and aft, same rear wheel on both bikes. The engine and gearbox are identical.
Yes, I'm aware of all this. I've spent hundreds of hours sussing these little things out over the years since I got this bike on a pallet in 2010 from all kinds of different sources. I'm a research and detail freak and I can't help. I just got a different shape curve and two inch short pipe. Big deal. It happens when a person like me has NEVER been happy with ANYTHING stock.
I am however sorry if I have misguided you once again. :-[ In closing I will note that H's have a one-off US-made Electra-X long pipe in their special offers section, though I understand if you're not about to risk another order anytime soon. Have you contracted H's at all? No. It won't matter now. I have to deal with THIS pipe and I found out today that this MIDAS in town cannot do it which adds a whole new set of chapters to this saga. And the bike sits. I might tell the story of that visit some day and the clueless yuppie idiot at the counter who I had to deal with who treated me like some invading alien being who he wished would just leave. I destroyed a perfectly good face mask on my way out.
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/special-offers/exhausts/35799
No. I Hate that pipe that has that long down straight part and no curve. My OEM pipe has a continuous geometric curve and it "may" end up back on. It depends on how many miles I have drive in a car in RI in July with a million tourists on the road trying to get to the f**king beach to get to a shop that can and will bend this pipe. RI is total gridlock many times of every day now in spite of the virus. And this is AFTER I even track down the shop which I haven't even started to do yet.
A.
It's all part of the game, but I may have been playing it too long at 82. I see after posting this that I still haven't learned how to insert text inside a post. But at last I DO see what I'm doing wrong. This time. Finally.
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When I'd seen the new "improved" header pipe on other bikes I've always thought they looked a bit out of place due to the sharper bend. There was nothing wrong with the curve of the OEM pipe and a newer pipe with the same bend would not detract from the Classic look. The style you received sounds like it was designed for the UCE.
No. This pipe's straight part is very short an within the curve. The UCE is straight a way bigger number of inches.
Are you able to extend or adjust the frame-side mounting bracket to accommodate the silencer-side mount?
Yes. The whole mount we designed, fabbed and welded onto both the short bottle and the harley muffler would have to be cut off and ground smooth, and then new ones fabbed and welded on (I no longer have my welder).
It would also cost me probably another $100 to get those two brackets fabbed and welded AGAIN in a new position on the two mufflers. Plus cutting and grinding the now useless old ones off. Nah. Not worth it. Plus I have to GO SOMEWHERE which I now hate.
I don't believe the center frame mount is necessary. The new pipe is VERY rigid and two inches shorter. I'll make a new rear mount out of 1/8" x 1" flat stock with correct hole positions positions and it should be plenty strong
When I'd seen the new "improved" header pipe on other bikes I've always thought they looked a bit out of place due to the sharper bend. There was nothing wrong with the curve of the OEM pipe and a newer pipe with the same bend would not detract from the Classic look. The style you received sounds like it was designed for the UCE.
Maybe I'm just too critical, though. ;)
Are you able to extend or adjust the frame-side mounting bracket to accommodate the silencer-side mount?
See. I STILL can't insert things within the text properly. :-[ :-[
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When you're replying with a quotation, find the last [/quote] in the text box and type in your reply AFTER that.
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When you're replying with a quotation, find the last in the text box and type in your reply AFTER that.
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No. That's not what I mean. I do that (what you say above) all the time, been doing that for years.
What I mean is inserting my comments WITHIN the text of the person I'm Replying to. Whenever I've tried it over the years, it has not worked. I've seen others do it, but I can't seem to get how they do it.
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Marking the bottom center line of the header from the bend to the end should be adequate for the shop to align it in the bender properly.
I "found a guy" this morning and it only took me driving around for 2 hours touching base with 3 different shops and finally a guy recalled who I was remembering and where he went. He's a guy I worked with in the mid-'80s and he moved in the early '90s.
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Progress. :)
Finally happened. One of the wife's c0-workers tested positive for Covid. Had to go for Covid testing here in San Diego this morning. Got sort of lucky. Anyone over 60 got to go to the head of the line, so we were first in and out.
When we get home we get to quarantine for two weeks. ::)
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Here's my issue:
In the first image, with the BS29 CV carb installed correctly, the choke plunger is in the normal running position. Tank is fitted.
In the second image, the choke plunger is pulled out to its first detente and the button is now almost touching the petcock, and will not pull out far enough to catch the second detente to properly choke for starting.
Please note that the tank is fitted properly, as is the petcock which didn't block the choke plunger prior to disassembly.
The petcock coupling to the tank cannot be shortened. The only adjustment available is the coupling nut, and only to move it up or down the threads with no effect on the position of the petcock which can only be rotated.
Gotta admit I'm stumped. :o
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Here's my issue:
In the first image, with the BS29 CV carb installed correctly, the choke plunger is in the normal running position. Tank is fitted.
In the second image, the choke plunger is pulled out to its first detente and the button is now almost touching the petcock, and will not pull out far enough to catch the second detente to properly choke for starting.
Please note that the tank is fitted properly, as is the petcock which didn't block the choke plunger prior to disassembly.
The petcock coupling to the tank cannot be shortened. The only adjustment available is the coupling nut, and only to move it up or down the threads with no effect on the position of the petcock which can only be rotated.
Gotta admit I'm stumped. :o
As the King of Siam said to Anna " 'tis a puzzlement".
Something has to be different than the way it was before if it was OK the way it was before, right ? :) the details of which are beyond my ability to formulate and express except maybe by Ouija board or casting the bones and it's even more useless to try because I can't see what you see assept the pitchers :) :)(http://)
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If the petcock boss in the tank is threaded ¼" BSP it's time to lose that weird petcock and its adapter, which seems to be the cause of the problem by putting the petcock in the way of the cold start button.
Try something like this?
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bvUAAOSwVupToTPy/s-l1600.jpg)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FUEL-PETCOCK-WITH-LOCK-NUT-83-2800-TRIUMPH-NORTON-BSA-ARIEL-BRITISH-MAIN/251562751465?hash=item3a924ef5e9:g:bvUAAOSwVupToTPy
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If the petcock boss in the tank is threaded ¼" BSP it's time to lose that weird petcock and its adapter, which seems to be the cause of the problem by putting the petcock in the way of the cold start button.
Try something like this?
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bvUAAOSwVupToTPy/s-l1600.jpg)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FUEL-PETCOCK-WITH-LOCK-NUT-83-2800-TRIUMPH-NORTON-BSA-ARIEL-BRITISH-MAIN/251562751465?hash=item3a924ef5e9:g:bvUAAOSwVupToTPy
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That's beauty. I'd put that on my AVL in a minute. I'll betcha if I order it, it will be another case similar to the header pipe :) :) :)(http://)
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It's just another bit of factory-induced weirdness confusing the boundary between the Electra-X (which got a bolt-on Japanese-style petcock) and the AVL Classic which seemed to use all the iron barrel cycle parts, including that weird German petcock which they could only fit with an adapter.
I'd say the tank OUGHT to be intended originally for a ¼" BSP petcock, which is the case with all the aftermarket tanks I have bought from India, but after my recent failures I should probably just can it about now.
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It's just another bit of factory-induced weirdness confusing the boundary between the Electra-X (which got a bolt-on Japanese-style petcock) and the AVL Classic which seemed to use all the iron barrel cycle parts, including that weird German petcock which they could only fit with an adapter.
I'd say the tank OUGHT to be intended originally for a ¼" BSP petcock, which is the case with all the aftermarket tanks I have bought from India, but after my recent failures I should probably just can it about now.
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I would be ready to chance it to get rid of that shitty German petcock that's on it now. At least it would only be a $16 experiment not a $200 one like the pipe (which I've found out absolutely can NOT be made right (bent) without putting a kink in it and cracking the chrome). And it's a Totally useless $200 wall hanging for me unless I fuck it up.
I'll probably not be able to resist ordering that petcock for more than a few hours :) :)(http://)
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I would be ready to chance it to get rid of that shitty German petcock that's on it now. At least it would only be a $16 experiment not a $200 one like the pipe (which I've found out absolutely can NOT be made right (bent) without putting a kink in it and cracking the chrome). And it's a Totally useless $200 wall hanging for me unless I fuck it up.
I'll probably not be able to resist ordering that petcock for more than a few hours :) :)(http://)
OK, but just remember to get a second opinion on anything I post!
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OK, but just remember to get a second opinion on anything I post!
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I've been looking at petcocks since the early days with this bike and the reason is that early on I dropped that cheezy little plastic filter housing to see what was trapped in there and even as careful as I am with stuff like this I could NEVER again get it to seal (yes. I was VERY careful with the micro-threads) and there was a tiny drip from there on no matter WHAT I tried.
SO. I permanently cemented it in with SealsAll which is TOTally never removable again without breaking it (like J-BWeld). And deleted the little, teensy-weensy silly micro-filter. Added another inline filter, of course.
I came VERY close to ordering a new one EXACTLY like it from CMW, but resisted because the same problem would there again sooner or later. And experimenting with Pingels is just too damn expensive. It's about time that tank was pulled again anyway just to flush it clean with clean new gas in case there IS crap laying on the bottom.
Maybe I should call Tim H first :) :)(http://)
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If the petcock boss in the tank is threaded ¼" BSP it's time to lose that weird petcock and its adapter, which seems to be the cause of the problem by putting the petcock in the way of the cold start button.
Try something like this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FUEL-PETCOCK-WITH-LOCK-NUT-83-2800-TRIUMPH-NORTON-BSA-ARIEL-BRITISH-MAIN/251562751465?hash=item3a924ef5e9:g:bvUAAOSwVupToTPy
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What's that outlet end fitting? Would you come off that with a barb fitting that fits your tubing to the carb?
It almost looks like a copper tubing compression fitting.
PS: I ordered it around noon time today :) :) Here we go again :)(http://)
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So what bore fuel hose are you using for your TM32 carb? Most British stuff uses ¼"/6mm
I just had a look for a US supplier that sells ¼" BSP petcock fittings, try Baxter Cycle.
This for a straight fitting?
https://www.baxtercycle.com/product/spigot-and-nut-for-triumph-petcock-with-bsa-fuel-line-see-photos-and-descriptions/
Or this if you want a 90° elbow?
https://www.baxtercycle.com/product/cs-3127/
Hope this helps. I must recommend something that fits - eventually! (http://www.royalenfieldlesite.fr/forum/images/smilies/whistling.gif)
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So what bore fuel hose are you using for your TM32 carb? Most British stuff uses ¼"/6mm
I just had a look for a US supplier that sells ¼" BSP petcock fittings, try Baxter Cycle.
This for a straight fitting?
https://www.baxtercycle.com/product/spigot-and-nut-for-triumph-petcock-with-bsa-fuel-line-see-photos-and-descriptions/
Or this if you want a 90° elbow?
https://www.baxtercycle.com/product/cs-3127/
Hope this helps. I must recommend something that fits - eventually! (http://www.royalenfieldlesite.fr/forum/images/smilies/whistling.gif)
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Yes. That's exactly what that tapered I.D. fitting on the outlet side of that petcock looks like to me.
Thanks again.
If that petcock I just ordered threads right into the tank, I will have a huge smile on my face :)(http://) and I won't have to think about something happening sooner or later to that cheezy plastic filter housing any more.
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If it all goes horribly wrong I have a spare gas tank with the ¼" BSP thread, just not chrome. Actually I DO have a spare large capacity tank in red and chrome, looked really cool but it developed a leak where one of the rear mounting tabs was welded on...
Now before you put a wrench anywhere near your existing gas tank, maybe just confirm with Tim or Kevin that I have got it right about the ¼" BSP thread, and that the adapter for the other petcock isn't welded in? Global stress levels are high enough right now, adding any more to yours is not on my list of things to do.
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Epiphany (feeling) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia An epiphany (from the ancient Greek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek) ἐπιφάνεια, epiphanea, "manifestation, striking appearance") is an experience of a sudden and striking realization. Generally the term is used to describe scientific breakthrough, religious or philosophical discoveries, but it can apply in any situation in which an enlightening realization allows a problem or situation to be understood from a new and deeper perspective. Epiphanies are studied by psychologists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychologist)[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_(feeling)#cite_note-Jarvis1996-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_(feeling)#cite_note-McDonald2008-2) and other scholars, particularly those attempting to study the process of innovation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation).
OK. So this isn't a scientific or religious thing. Really more like a "DUH!!!!!!!!!"
Walked out to the bike after a couple cups of coffee, a hot shower, and a rather extraordinary morning constitution.
1. Stood there looking at the thing wondering if I should fabricate a couple of risers to get the tank high enough so the Cold Start Plunger would clear the Fuel Tap filter bowl. Temporary fitted the tank in place with the bolts in, measured what I would need from my 1/8" flat stock and shims. This looked like the way I'd need to solve the problem. Annoying, but workable.
2. Continued looking at the thing and debated whether to remove the Cold Start Plunger assembly and somehow shorten the Plunger shaft. Not so workable due to the plunger button is molded to the shaft.
3. Firmly slapped my head when I realized all I need to do is slightly rotate the carb enough so the Plunger clears the filter bowl. Rotation is not enough to really affect the bowl floats, and this is what I had done a couple years ago when initially installing the goddamn thing!
4. Removed hand from head, shook head vigorously to get eyeballs back in place, and had another cup of coffee. ::)
Now to replace the defective head gasket, double check the timing, and set the valve clearance.
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Just a thought, is there a cable conversion for the CV carb?
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Not sure.
My understanding is these were made in the '80s and any searches for complete units has not been fruitful. All I ever find is some parts. I've seen nothing about cables.
That doesn't mean there aren't some kind or kinds of conversions. It's just that I have not seen them.
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OK, but just remember to get a second opinion on anything I post!
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So I wandered a bit this morning (too cold yet to go out with shorts and a T-shirt to do some house maintenance stuff) on the interweb and find 83-2800 petcocks are all over the place and some of the ads say theirs is 1/4" BSP and others say that theirs is 1/4" NPT so here we go again..... :)(http://[/img
IlovethisbikeIlovethisbikeIlovethisbike..... :) ;D ::)[img])
It's an adventure.
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So what bore fuel hose are you using for your TM32 carb? Most British stuff uses ¼"/6mm
I don't know. I have a lot of hose in my garage, black and clear. I picked a size that fit tightly onto the CARB fuel inlet. The outlet on the cheezy petcock was smaller so I wrapped it with Teflon tape and used a tiny hose clamp.
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I'm using 1/4"/6mm on my VM32. Fits my petrol tap just fine.
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So I wandered a bit this morning (too cold yet to go out with shorts and a T-shirt to do some house maintenance stuff) on the interweb and find 83-2800 petcocks are all over the place and some of the ads say theirs is 1/4" BSP and others say that theirs is 1/4" NPT so here we go again..... :)(http://[/img
IlovethisbikeIlovethisbikeIlovethisbike..... :) ;D ::)[img])
It's an adventure.
So the petcock is in the mailbox and I may get it today, I may not. It's gonna be too F-ing hot to do much now anyway. I'm useless in the heat now. I might leave everything alone until October :)(http://) I'm certainly not starting with a tank-pulling when it's going to be 90 for another month and a 1/2.
This thread has wandered in all directions and ought to just end.
I went back to black now for both header (the original double wall) and muffler for now. All mounted again and a nice satin black. No pictures; as I've said before I can't get my camera to download pictures any more; camera? or computer? I don't have a clue.
I found the perfect guy to bend the header pipe. He's specialized in custom exhausts for every kind of vehicle, normal, street rods, customs, for 30 some years (20 years in the shop he has now) and found we had mutual contacts and history in this whole area that go back to the '60s. ANYWAY. Picked up the pipe Friday and he did an amazing careful job with it. No one looking at it from a standing position will see ANY marks. You have to look REEly close. And it's because he really CARES about his work. The proof will be when I mount it, of course, which I'm not going to do soon.
His customer area walls are plastered with hundreds of pictures going back to the original Taska Race Team days of the '60s.
And he charged me $20. Can you believe that? :) 8) :o
I'm also not real comfortable with mounting the new chrome pipe with the usta-be-chrome harley muffler which has been buffed to a satin finish ala Exile with ScotchBrite.
I should get a chrome silencer, but which one? Too many choices..... :-\ :-\ Ideas?? Huh?
Adrian: I've read in the literature that a male NPT can be threaded into a female BSP leakless with a judicial use of Teflon tape so I just have a "feeling" this new petcock will work out + it's certainly a better looking petcock than that German abortion.
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Even if the original petcock hole in the tank AND the petcock are both BSP, PTFE is still a good idea, or some liquid PTFE thread seal. With some of my Indian-made tanks I have noticed after running the appropriate tap to clean up the thread in the tank, the correct threaded petcock isn't the snuggest of fits. I think the petcock you ordered has its own lock nut to secure it mechanically, it's just a question of making sure the the gas finds its way out through the petcock rather than round it.
Forgive me if I've already told you, but this worked in my favor once, Not A Fury's tank was purchased when I visited Hitchcock's to buy stuff in person, they had a small panel tank with a nice metallic paint job as a display item. Asking about it, I was told it was returned by a customer as it had been leaking. Asking further I was told I could have it cheap as a fixer-upper. Great. Got it home, but I could not make it leak. Had it pressure tested, still no leak. Must have been a poorly-sealed petcock with the previous owner. Still not leaking...
Good result on that down pipe, by the way. $20? Proper old-school.
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If I ever need a pipe bent it looks like I'll have to do some hunting. Southwest Cycles closed down (at least there's a For Sale sign at the gate), so Carl is out of the picture.
Glad you got 'er done, and for cheap, too!
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If I ever need a pipe bent it looks like I'll have to do some hunting. Southwest Cycles closed down (at least there's a For Sale sign at the gate), so Carl is out of the picture.
Glad you got 'er done, and for cheap, too!
Thanks. I really lucked out having this shop so close to me as I've really come to hate running around in a car in my area. I just get more and more in a "not wanting to go ANYwhere" frame of mind the last 20 years. Plus having a similar "history" in the area with the owner of the shop helped. He's an old school (I've also come to hate that term lately. It's SO overused) kind of guy who is also high tech as far as his equipment and methods go and who really cares about his work and his rep.
As I said before, I'm leaving it in black for now and maybe will mount my new pretty chrome "bent pipe" in the fall. I think I'm going to have to get a different chrome muffler of some kind because the harley straight thru muffler* I have has been buffed to a satin finish with ScotchBrite and they will not look good together.
*It's a pretty old muffler I got from a friend for free and not really "LOUD" at all. It's the type with the straight thru perforated pipe surrounded with fiberglas or steel wool (or used condoms for all I know). It weighs 5.7# compared to 3.3# for the bottle which is totally empty. So I don't lose any net weight at all mounting the new single wall pipe with the harley muffler. The double wall pipe is 6.6#, the new pipe is 3.2#.
I need ideas for a new muffler that I don't need a 2nd mortgage to buy.
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OK, pretend someone else is posting this...
I like the look of the Supertrapp SC Elite but the price put me off.
Cheap and cheerful would normally be the so-called short bottle silencer from India:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dqsAAOSwmdtd2K-Y/s-l500.jpg)
This one has a longer inlet pipe for the shorter down pipe, which ends up looking like this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/T2zdRVcY/DSCN7331.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The supplier is quoting $66.42 with free international shipping. You can also get one with a shorter inlet which won't stick out the back so far.
I'm learning not to recommend specific items, but it would have to fit the 1.75" O/D down-pipe, and any supplied bracketry may or may not be of any use! ::) Plus I don't know how well post/shipping from India is doing in their battle with Covid 19 right now.
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OK, pretend someone else is posting this...
Cheap and cheerful would normally be the so-called short bottle silencer from India:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dqsAAOSwmdtd2K-Y/s-l500.jpg)
The supplier is quoting $66.42 with free international shipping. You can also get one with a shorter inlet which won't stick out the back so far.
I'm learning not to recommend specific items, but it would have to fit the 1.75" O/D down-pipe, and any supplied bracketry may or may not be of any use! ::) Plus I don't know how well post/shipping from India is doing in their battle with Covid 19 right now.
A.
That's an OK look, I guess. I might like to see both ends a little shorter. I'm also liking cocktail shakers a little.
I'm a little gunshy right now and in no hurry. My big problem is No Specs of any use in MANY of the ads.
This morning early while doing other stuff I drained the tank. I'll use it in the mower. Pulled the petcock, not a spec of anything in it so I don't think I'll pull the tank. I'll just dump a 1/2 gallon of new gas in it and strain it as it comes out.
I wrapped the nipple in leather and used "just enough" pressure on my Vice Grips to not totally fuck the threads. No luck. Tightened a bit more. No luck.
At that point I took the new locknut and threaded it onto the nipple. There is resistance (the threads ARE different) but not overly so. It threaded up 3X it's thickness with no problem so there will be no problem threading the new petcock into the tank. With Teflon tape.
I could not find a matching nut to the locknut in my whole 50 or more year stash in the garage in order to try double-nutting it out. So tomorrow I will traipse to the hardware store and get one before I just go ahead and destroy the nipple with the Vice Grrrips.
By this time in the AM it was 80F and 80% hummaditty and I quit. I've actually just typed this all over again at 3:30PM Sunday. I had just finished it this morning when I hit something by accident (I know not what) and the whole thing was deleted. This happens every now and then and I have no clue what I've done to cause it. The whole bloody thing just disappears into the ether.
This new petcock is a really nice piece of work compared to the OEM one. No reserve, but I don't care. I really like its simplicity.
I'm hoping the Indians didn't use some hellracious thread locker on that tank nipple, but I'll bet they did. And I can't use heat with the tank on the bike. I hope the double-nutting does it.
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More muffler madness, those clever folks in China are now knocking out Supretrapp clones in black stainless steel, no less. $88.84, free shipping. Not knowing the current state of US/China trade relations I don't know if this is a desirable or even viable option, but I'll leave it here.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-0cAAOSwNtld1~GO/s-l1600.jpg)
I had to laugh at this in the ebay listing, though:
"Postage to: Worldwide
Excludes: Channel Islands, Isle of Wight, Isle of Man, Scilly Isles, Scottish Highlands, Scottish Islands, Northern Ireland, Africa, Central America and Caribbean, Middle East, South America, Bermuda, Canada, Greenland, Mexico, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Albania, Andorra, Austria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Gibraltar, Greece, Guernsey, Iceland, Ireland, Jersey, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Romania, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Ukraine, Vatican City State, Afghanistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan Republic, Bangladesh, Bhutan, China, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Maldives, Mongolia, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, American Samoa, Cook Islands, Fiji, French Polynesia, Guam, Kiribati, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, New Caledonia, Niue, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Tonga, Tuvalu, Vanuatu, Wallis and Futuna, Western Samoa, Cambodia, Laos, PO Box"
Just what was your definition of worldwide, again? ;D
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More muffler madness, those clever folks in China are now knocking out Supretrapp clones in black stainless steel, no less. $88.84, free shipping. Not knowing the current state of US/China trade relations I don't know if this is a desirable or even viable option, but I'll leave it here.
I had to laugh at this in the ebay listing, though:
"Postage to: Worldwide
Excludes: Channel Islands, Isle of Wight, Isle of Man, Scilly Isles, Scottish Highlands, Scottish Islands, Northern Ireland, Africa, Central America and Caribbean, Middle East, South America, Bermuda, Canada, Greenland, Mexico, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Albania, Andorra, Austria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Gibraltar, Greece, Guernsey, Iceland, Ireland, Jersey, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Romania, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Ukraine, Vatican City State, Afghanistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan Republic, Bangladesh, Bhutan, China, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Maldives, Mongolia, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, American Samoa, Cook Islands, Fiji, French Polynesia, Guam, Kiribati, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, New Caledonia, Niue, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Tonga, Tuvalu, Vanuatu, Wallis and Futuna, Western Samoa, Cambodia, Laos, PO Box"
Just what was your definition of worldwide, again? ;D
A.
Some of the blurbs on Ebay of Indian muffler/silencer/header pipe vendors are also hilarious. They might even be funnier than Japanese to English or Chinese to English (Well, what we CALL English nowadays).
Pouring rain again here in Rhode Island this AM.
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I could not find a matching nut to the locknut in my whole 50 or more year stash in the garage in order to try double-nutting it out. So tomorrow I will traipse to the hardware store and get one before I just go ahead and destroy the nipple with the Vice Grrrips.
I'm hoping the Indians didn't use some hellracious thread locker on that tank nipple, but I'll bet they did. And I can't use heat with the tank on the bike. I hope the double-nutting does it.
It was just too damn hot to go to town today to look for a nut (would not have worked anyway) so I bit the bullet and the bullet is biting back >:( :((http://)
The Indian threadlocker IS HELLracious just as I thought.
I found a bolt just right and shoved it up inside the nipple; it was nice and tight, had to screw it a little. Got my Vice Grips and tightened as tight as these old hands would do it and hit it with my little 4# sledge and watched as the Vice Grips just rotated around the nipple turning nothing. Repositioned the Vice Grips and did this three more times times and I was dripping sweat and said "Oh, shit"! and quit. It was 85F here in the shade today and a high 70s dew point.
The tank has to come off.
What's the latest on breaking that Hellracious Indian LocTite loose? Heat the nipple up red and hope for the best?? I suppose worst case scenario will be cut it off flush at the bung, drill it out and retap it.
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I ran into the same thing and finally just said "F*ck it!"
I'm not ready to put the Bernzomatic to a tank at ANY time, even after it's aired out for a week. I've seen what those explosive fumes can do to a face. :o
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I ran into the same thing and finally just said "F*ck it!"
I'm not ready to put the Bernzomatic to a tank at ANY time, even after it's aired out for a week. I've seen what those explosive fumes can do to a face. :o
That worries me a bit also and I have to admit this whole thing kept me awake most of the night thinking it out and, yes, worrying it to death. I "almost" wish I hadn't thought of this new petcock idea, but I'm determined to get it done.
I've never in all my bike life had to deal with a frozen pet cock nipple in my bung before ;)(http://) Also this tank is pristine and still looks better than when it was pinstriped by the Indian artist in Chennai. And I Do Not want it marked up and I'm going to have to be extremely careful with it.
I have to visualize doing every step for a long time before I attack it and it's so bloody hot here now I don't want to do ANYthing. And I still have two big (for me) jobs to finish on this bloody house, that I've worked on for 32 years, before I die which could be any day now at 82.
So any advice about drilling and tapping this bloody bung hole from anybody who's actually Done It would be much appreciated even though, in theory, I know what has to be done and all the stepsinvolved. And getting this new petcock in finally will be worth it in the end. It is SO much better AND so much better LOOKing than that thing the factory put on.
Thanks, Heloego, and thanks to all who respond in the future about this new "nightmare" I've created.
IlovemybikeIlovemybikeIlovemybikeIlovemybike...... :) :)
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That's it, I'm in hiding. :-[ :-[ :-[
If you need a non-flame heat source there's always the electric hot-air gun used for paint stripping, just a hair dryer on steroids, but there's the question of how much heat to apply before the paint or chrome is damaged.
I do have the ¼" BSP taps and the 11.8mm drill* which I now feel obliged to airmail out to you with no further delay, if you want to PM me your address! If it all goes belly-up IOU my red and chrome tank.
A.
* I also saw a tapping drill chart for BSPP Parallel thread (don't use tapered, BSPT) which recommended a 29/64ths drill for the ¼ thread, which works out at 11.5mm. Who do you believe?
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Almost done with the current project, hooked up the aux tank, fired her up.
Runs great (on the HF lift), but now I get to track down a leak again.
Last one was from the head gasket and a another new gasket solved that.
Now it's either leaking from the barrel gasket or new the tappet cover.
Decided to do the simple thing first and addressed the tappet cover with gasket sealant.
Now hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.
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That's it, I'm in hiding. :-[ :-[ :-[
If you need a non-flame heat source there's always the electric hot-air gun used for paint stripping, just a hair dryer on steroids, but there's the question of how much heat to apply before the paint or chrome is damaged.
I do have the ¼" BSP taps and the 11.8mm drill* which I now feel obliged to airmail out to you with no further delay, if you want to PM me your address! If it all goes belly-up IOU my red and chrome tank.
A.
* I also saw a tapping drill chart for BSPP Parallel thread (don't use tapered, BSPT) which recommended a 29/64ths drill for the ¼ thread, which works out at 11.5mm. Who do you believe?
Please don't beat yourself up over this. I went into this with my eyes wide open and I will deal with it. You've been a tremendous help over many years.
No. Please don't mail me anything now (yet) :)
First off, whatever this threadlocker is, it is HELLaciously tough. I have literally accomplished NOTHING, with the Vice Grips (3X) as tight as I can get them, but stripping ALL the threads off that bloody nipple. It is not going to loosen with any heat gun! >:((http://) And that was with a bolt inSIDE the nipple so it would not collapse. If I did use heat on the nipple I would wrap the tank and keep it wet.
First thing I'm going to do is VERIFY what the threads on this new petcock actually ARE. I do not trust what these ads say any more because of past experience PLUS I have seen this very same Part Number advertised as both NPT AND BSP by various vendors.
So I will go to a plumbing shop and verify it with a thread gauge, or with a NEW 1/4" NPT nut, what these threads ACTUALLY are. Then I will cut the nipple off flush to the bung with a fine tooth hacksaw blade and drill it out and retap it with the CORRECT tap for the new petcock I have in my hand, whatever threads it proves out to be. I'm actually hoping that it's NPT, but it probably IS actually BSPP. Just looking with these old eyes and a maggerfrying glass, the thread points look (and feel) rounded - 3 dots BSP.
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The only thing preventing me from cutting off the threaded part of the nipple and drilling and tapping the fitting is lack of a proper tap. Guess I'll have to order up a couple for the future. ;)
Fired up the Classic again this A.M.
Bike idled nicely and so far no leaks. Adding some high temp sealant to the tappet cover and its mating surface on the engine seems to have done the trick.
Maybe.
I won't REALLY know until I get it outside and run it under load for a bit.
So that's what's on the agenda for today. :)
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Just a thought on the tappet cover, does it still have the valve lifter in it? These types can crack and leak oil, mine did. You could and presumably still can get Samrat plain tappet covers (intended for the iron barrel Bullets) which have a rectangular rubber seal on the inside. This does a pretty good job of sending the oil somewhere else to look for a leak.
This might come in handy, guys, click on the ¼" in the little drop-down menu
https://amesweb.info/Screws/bspp-thread-chart-calculator.aspx
https://amesweb.info/Screws/npt-thread-calculator.aspx
This tells me BSPP is 19 threads per inch while NPT is 18.
A.
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The only thing preventing me from cutting off the threaded part of the nipple and drilling and tapping the fitting is lack of a proper tap. Guess I'll have to order up a couple for the future. ;)
Fired up the Classic again this A.M.
Bike idled nicely and so far no leaks. Adding some high temp sealant to the tappet cover and its mating surface on the engine seems to have done the trick.
Maybe.
I won't REALLY know until I get it outside and run it under load for a bit.
So that's what's on the agenda for today. :)
This might help :)(http://) :
https://www.mcmaster.com/taps
Good luck with your leak.
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So might this, British Tools Online in New York.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TAP-BSP-1-4-19-Taper-5580/274386837323?hash=item3fe2badf4b:g:AqYAAOSwPbddqJm9
A.
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Tappet cover does still have the valve lifter.
Inspected the cover with a 10x magnifier looking for cracks along the edges and around the lifter hole. None seen.
The cover was leaking somewhere along the top. Thorough re-cleaning of the interfaces and a bit of sealant did the trick.
Rolling it outside tomorrow early while it's cool and we'll see how the UCAL 29mm CV carb performs. The exhaust is about as free as it can be with the stock header and a slash cut pipe.
I already know how to change out and/or adjust the needle jet and jet needle. But I only have the jets on hand, so, again, we'll see what happens tomorrow. If adjusting of the needle isn't sufficient, I can always order up what I need.
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Tappet cover does still have the valve lifter.
Inspected the cover with a 10x magnifier looking for cracks along the edges and around the lifter hole. None seen.
The cover was leaking somewhere along the top. Thorough re-cleaning of the interfaces and a bit of sealant did the trick.
Rolling it outside tomorrow early while it's cool and we'll see how the UCAL 29mm CV carb performs. The exhaust is about as free as it can be with the stock header and a slash cut pipe.
I already know how to change out and/or adjust the needle jet and jet needle. But I only have the jets on hand, so, again, we'll see what happens tomorrow. If adjusting of the needle isn't sufficient, I can always order up what I need.
JetsRUs is your friend :) :)(http://)
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So might this, British Tools Online in New York.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TAP-BSP-1-4-19-Taper-5580/274386837323?hash=item3fe2badf4b:g:AqYAAOSwPbddqJm9
A.
This new petcock I hold in my hand as I type (with one finger :)(http://) ) has parallel threads.
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Taper tap in this case does not refer to taper or parallel thread, it's a taper shape of the cutting end, i.e. it's a STARTER tap for a BSPP parallel thread, not a bottom tap. I hope this is not a case of being divided by a common language!
THIS sort of thing. The one on the left.
(https://www.notesandsketches.co.uk/images/Taper_second_plug_taps.jpg)
Picture: notesandsketches.co.uk
If you do have to drill out the old adapter, the tapered lead should have a better chance of picking up the existing thread in the tank. As the petcock orifice has already been drilled and tapped all the way through I wouldn't expect to need a second or a plug tap (UK speak) to clear it, there should be enough parallel thread on the taper tap to clean up the female thread in the tank.
Or would something like an Easy Out stud extractor in the adapter hole be suitable to get it out? DO get advice, because if one of those things (or a tap, come to think of it) snaps off in there that just leaves spark erosion to sort out the mess!
A.
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The tapered tap would be the way to do it. Easier to properly align the threads.
Bottoming taps are specifically designed to apply threads (to a closed end insert for example), and run the threads all the way to the closed end (bottom).
I have a good selection of taps and dies but only in SAE and Metric sizes. I'll need to get on the stick and order up a set of BSPP and BSPT for the future.
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Taper tap in this case does not refer to taper or parallel thread, it's a taper shape of the cutting end, i.e. it's a STARTER tap for a BSPP parallel thread, not a bottom tap. I hope this is not a case of being divided by a common language!
THIS sort of thing. The one on the left.
If you do have to drill out the old adapter, the tapered lead should have a better chance of picking up the existing thread in the tank. As the petcock orifice has already been drilled and tapped all the way through I wouldn't expect to need a second or a plug tap (UK speak) to clear it, there should be enough parallel thread on the taper tap to clean up the female thread in the tank.
Or would something like an Easy Out stud extractor in the adapter hole be suitable to get it out? DO get advice, because if one of those things (or a tap, come to think of it) snaps off in there that just leaves spark erosion to sort out the mess!
A.
Adrian,
Yes, yes, yes. I apologize. I had a brain fart and wasn't thinking that it was the starter threads on the tap that the term 'taper' was all about.
Yes, I know all about what you're talking about about taps (starting, bottoming, etc.) so easily being broken. I did a lot of tapping of threads in "the old days" and sometimes I just forget everything I think I usta know and then like a slug to the head I slap my forehead and realize "Of course, you damn fool! You KNEW that"! Yes, I will be very careful with the tap(s); I know all about "Turn a bit. Back off. Turn a bit. Back off. Repeat". Been there, done that :)
I thought about Easy-Outs before and I'm still thinking I can do a pretty decent job drilling it out (I WILL get the correct drills) and retapping it (and I WILL get the correct tap(s) once I VERIFY what these (new) petcock threads are. That's my Job #One right now. I'm pretty sure they are BSPP, but as I've said before, I must be sure and I do not trust the ads any more at all.
I'll slather my drills with grease, I'll stuff the I.D. with grease. Then I'll stuff the drilled out I.D. with grease again AND the tap(s). Then I'll rinse and rinse the tank with gasoline until I have a big smile on my face :)
Again - thank you. You (and a couple others) have been a TREEmenduss! help on this basically simple, straight forward job (and others) that has awakened me AGAIN at 3;30am. Just follow the steps!
It's more my physical condition that bothers me rather than the job itself. Plus the 3 or 4 fairly big jobs I MUST finish here before I drop dead in the driveway; two of which I should have done 32 years ago when I first bought this "house around my neck" which is now close to bullet-proof maintenance-wise so that SWMBO will be able to stay in it when I'm gone (she's 15 years younger than I).
BTW What do you think that HELLracious threadlocker is? >:( >:((http://)
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The tapered tap would be the way to do it. Easier to properly align the threads.
Bottoming taps are specifically designed to apply threads (to a closed end insert for example), and run the threads all the way to the closed end (bottom).
I have a good selection of taps and dies but only in SAE and Metric sizes. I'll need to get on the stick and order up a set of BSPP and BSPT for the future.
Absolutely right, my friend. See my Reply to Adrian.
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I figured you already were VERY aware of taps and methods. :)
My response was more for anyone reading who wasn't already familiar. ;)
I'll be moving all kinds of stuff out of the way so I can get the product out of the garage for a check ride. Hoping for the best, and I'll update when finished.
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I figured you already were VERY aware of taps and methods. :)
My response was more for anyone reading who wasn't already familiar. ;)
I'll be moving all kinds of stuff out of the way so I can get the product out of the garage for a check ride. Hoping for the best, and I'll update when finished.
"The Product" :) I love it ! :) :)(http://)
Good luck. I'm down for the count here. It is SO hot and humid it's dangerous and I'm useless in it :( :((http://) Worse then useless.
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We're in the start of the Monsoon season here. Gets to about 90 degr. or so, then a rain moves through spiking the humidity to above 80%. Miserable. I just GOTTA get an Window A/C Unit for the garage.
Checked everything again and fired it up on the Lift. Peachy Keen!
Rolled it off the Lift and out to the drive way. Would not crank!!!!!!!
Repeat on Lift...Ran fine.Driveway...No Cranky!!!!
Why the driveway made any difference confounded me, so back to the Lift, and checking the connectors in the casquette discovered the slightest movement of the connectors for the RH switch assembly would stop any effort to crank the thing. Disconnected same and noted the male and female pins and sockets were not only oxidized, but worn. Over 10 years old, so I'll just replace them all.
The Kit is Out: Pins, Receptacles, Removal Pin, Mini Flush Cutter, Wire Stripper, Crimp Tool, and Contact Enhancer.
Tomorrow the insulation will fly! ;)
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"The Product" :) I love it ! :) :)
Good luck. I'm down for the count here. It is SO hot and humid it's dangerous and I'm useless in it :( :((http://) Worse then useless.
..worse thAn useless..
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"Worse thEn useless" works, too. ;)
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Got in one run before the rains this afternoon.
Carb as adjusted is not too bad, though I do get some slight popping during over-runs. Plug looks slightly lean, though the ride was pretty short due to no current sticker on the plate. I'll re-adjust the carb and give her another short run tomorrow before the rains hit.
Minor adjustment of the clutch needed due to some false neutrals.
And the front brake needs some very slight tightening.
And the exhaust is somewhat quieter than expected.
More tomorrow, maybe, if weather allows.
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Yesterday I drove around in 90F 90% humidity to three different places trying to not drop dead in anybody's parking lot; I came very close.
Anyway. I finally verified the threads on the petcock ARE actually BSP which is what I was hoping for. Many young clerks do not know what a thread gauge is and all they wanted to know was "What's that from"? I found a guy closer to my age and he saw right away what I needed to know.
And while I was "out" I ordered the pipe and fittings for my 2nd underground downspout drain. The 30' trench will probably be finished by November at 20 minutes a day :) :) and filled in by the first snow :)
AND I ordered the tap and correct size drill. I can borrow the tap handle which I do not have any more. Now I have to figure how to wrap the tank so as not to rub that very soft 2008 clearcoat; it marks VERY easily. The tank does not have a mark on it. I was thinking maybe wrap it in SaranWrap first then a dozen old winter sweaters :) :)
Ideas anyone?? ??? ???(http://)
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Hmm. Bike securely fastened to a lifting work bench, leave the tank bolted to the bike. Get the whole thing elevated to a height where you're comfortable working on it, plenty of masking tape all over the surrounding areas of the tank?
Or you'll need some sort of jig to which you can bolt the tank inverted to it's easy to work on but held securely, so that any protective covering is only doing just that and not actually gripping the tank in any way and marking the clearcoat.
As usual, my suggestions come with a huge "get a second opinion" warning. ;)
A.
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Hmm. Bike securely fastened to a lifting work bench, leave the tank bolted to the bike. Get the whole thing elevated to a height where you're comfortable working on it, plenty of masking tape all over the surrounding areas of the tank?
Or you'll need some sort of jig to which you can bolt the tank inverted to it's easy to work on but held securely, so that any protective covering is only doing just that and not actually gripping the tank in any way and marking the clearcoat.
As usual, my suggestions come with a huge "get a second opinion" warning. ;)
A.
Don't have a lift. Don't know anybody WITH one. Couldn't get the bike there anyway; it can't be run. Don't have a pickup and know nobody now WITH one if I wanted to truck it somewhere. All my old friends are dead, in jail or living in Baja or Alaska.
I can't do anything any more "looking up" or work on what I can't see well in good light. Very painful neck prevents bifocals and light being in the right place at the right time plus painful wrists and hands don't help. I've got to have it where I can attack it straight on, look right at it right in front of me. I can take NO chance of fucking this job up! It's a very straight forward job, but nothing is easypeasy for me now especially awkward positions.
I know of a couple people I might still trust who I'll draft to hold it steady after it's wrapped and Bunjied and duct taped down to my WorkMate which will also be padded with a layer of foam and old winter sweaters. I even have a WW2 sheepskin full length parka liner I might use, too.
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OK, all the best with this one. We know it's about keeping the tank rock-steady and protected, it's just about HOW do you do it with what or who is available.
A.
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The Workmate may be all you need, unless it's too light and the whole shebang moves on ya.
You;ll get 'er done, I'm certain! :)
The plug chops on the product show it too lean. OEM Needle Jet was a 110 and I bumped it up to a 115. Same/Same after a run. Have gone to a 120 and we'll see what it does. If it's almost there, I'll adjust the Jet Needle down one step. Maybe have time for 2 more runs today.
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"JetsRUs is your friend (https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) (https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)"
Absatively. ;)
Got a Jet kit a couple years ago and haven't looked back.
Now to order up some BSP Taps and Dies, and both a M10x1.25 Tap and Die, the ONE thing my Tap and Die set DOESN'T have. >:(
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McMaster Carr is just a BIT too proud of their taps and dies. :o
For the money I can do much better just getting a T&D kit form Harbor Freight that includes both M10x1.25 tap and die.
As for the Brit Standard, I see Hitchcocks offers a nice set of BS Fine "in a neatly fitted box" for 78 GBP (roughly $100 U.S.). Will this set include what I need for the petrol tank?
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McMaster Carr is just a BIT too proud of their taps and dies. :o
For the money I can do much better just getting a T&D kit form Harbor Freight that includes both M10x1.25 tap and die.
As for the Brit Standard, I see Hitchcocks offers a nice set of BS Fine "in a neatly fitted box" for 78 GBP (roughly $100 U.S.). Will this set include what I need for the petrol tank?
Yes, McMaster-Carr is right up there, but it is a good place to easily get a handle on "what's out there". It's a super source of very detailed information on thousands of things.
I got the tap and tap drill for less at another place. I was NOT going to attack it with any of my "many-times-sharpened" drill bits so I wanted a brand new one.
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Helego, BSF is a different thread altogether, 5/16" was common of the drum brake fork ends even after a lot of the other threads had been changed to metric. MOST British bike gas tanks use a BSP threaded boss for the petcock, not BSF. The Original 1950's Bullet design taken up in India has a ¼" BSP petcock, and for years India stuck with this. As I have said before, all the RE custom/replica tanks I have have which were made in India kept to ¼" BSP.
Just checking the on-line parts book I notice that Karcoma taps were being fitted in the 1990s, but the parts books list a separate M/M adapter, ¼BSP(P) to M12 fine thread.
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/1318?qty=1&continue_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com%2Fpartsbook-pages%2F1674
(https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/141208-1200.jpg)
Maybe some bean-counter in Chennai worked out since then that they could save the odd rupee by making a plain adapter without that nice fat wrench-friendly hexagon on it! It's not listed in the parts books for later iron barrel models.
More factory inconsistency, the Electra-X tanks had a bolt-on petcock Japanese style held on by a couple of M6 set screws, but the AVL Classic, following the iron barrel models, did not.
(https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/145504-1200.jpg)
A.
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To get part of this story over with:
The nipple part of the story went fairly well yesterday. Easier than expected.
Early AM I wrapped the tank with large plastic storage bags (10"x10" I guess taped together) so that's 2 layers. Then 3 winter sweaters with the sleeves folded over the top; that's 6 layers each. I know: Overkill :)(http://)
I pumped the nipple full of grease & used a 24 TPI with a little blade handle (not a hacksaw frame) & oiled it up good with the teeth set on the pull rather than the push (the Japanese had the right idea). You don't get "grab" that way and I have much more control.
I had absolutely no trouble at all holding the tank immovable with my left while I sawed with medium pressure with lots of oil. 2-10 minute sessions and it was done with no drama. Arm ached like holy hell, but it ALLways aches like hell. So what? I've lived with it my whole life.
It's very tough steel nipple that they used.
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I know not many care about this, but be very careful when you buy the petcock I bought for the '08.
There are 2 Part#s and they look exactly the same unless you look close.
Neither of these has a Reserve position on the lever. They are both either On or Off.
The two Part #s are 83-2800 and 83-2801. 83-2800 does not have a Reserve standpipe. 83-2801 does.
The one I bought has the Reserve standpipe and the ad said it was Part #83-2800 which it is NOT. It's an 83-2801 with a 1 1/2" standpipe.
https://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/products/british-standard-petcock-fuel-valve-main-no-reserve-for-triumph-bsa-norton?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_pid=4342666166319&pr_ref_pid=4342272983087&pr_seq=uniform
This means I will ALWAYS have an inch and a 1/2 of gas over the petcock when my carb runs dry.
The bikes these vintage replica petcocks were for had TWO petcocks; one on the Left and one on the Right. When the petcock with the standpipe ran the carb(s) dry, you shut it off and turned the other one on, the one with NO standpipe. That was your Reserve petcock.
I won't go into why. It's too hot and nobody cares anyway and I'm going to go stick my head under the shower :)(http://)
The tap arrived yesterday BTW.
PS: I did not get it from LowBrow. I should have. They have MUCH better explanations about these petcocks.
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Good info to have, Twosy. Thanks for posting. :)
I have used Lowbrow before, and they are definitely better than some in their descriptions.
Local news:
Got the bike running pretty good. Slight burbles on decel but no pops. The Slash-Cut exhaust is surprisingly just a "quiet" as the Goldie on my ElectraX, and a good thing, too, as most of the folks in my neighborhood are retired like me.
As I expected, bumping the Needle Jet up a size made the all the difference, but I still need to go for a truly decent run before I'll release it to my bud. I think it's still slightly lean, but a good run should let me know better.
While helping Sunday, a sudden stop let fuel get past the shitty seal on the gas cap, and even though the VHT paint is supposed to be the tits for chemical resistance the gloss forward of the cap got messed up. >:( Tank has been cleaned up and re-coated as needed. While removing the headlight to replace the RH switch gear terminals the "protective rag" used to cover the front mudguard had something in it that messed up the gloss coating. >:( Get to remove, clean up, and re-paint that today.
This project has been a constant "one step forward, two steps back" since last year, but it's turning out pretty good, we think.
Next Sunday it gets rolled out, cleaned up, wiped down, given a serious waxing, and photos all around which will be posted to Imgur and this forum.
All things considered, I could just be a bit optimistic. ;)
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While helping Sunday, a sudden stop let fuel get past the shitty seal on the gas cap, and even though the VHT paint is supposed to be the tits for chemical resistance the gloss forward of the cap got messed up. >:( Tank has been cleaned up and re-coated as needed. While removing the headlight to replace the RH switch gear terminals the "protective rag" used to cover the front mudguard had something in it that messed up the gloss coating. >:( Get to remove, clean up, and re-paint that today.
OhBummer :( :( :( But the feeling I! get is the this guy is lucky you're there :)
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So the tank is ready for a scuffing and final coat.
Mudguard is waiting for another coat.
This guy is a stone mason. His favorite tools are a hammer, chisel, and wheel barrow. I've seen the work he's done, and he's brilliant. He's done work for the city, state, Robert Duval (did you know his hobby is building bird houses?), and other notable people in and about Santa Fe for years. Just has a serious aversion to any kind of maintenance on his bike. ;)
I've been his tech support since he bought the bike used from a neighbor back in '12. Then, it was a forest green Classic. He told me what mods he wanted as an end result and I simply followed his basic wishes, adding a few helpful suggestions along the way. :)
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Latest chapter of The Saga of My PetCock (I haven't even felt like writing). It's been so hot and humid even the birds are walking).
Thursday all the planets aligned (and the stars, my mood and energy level) so I attacked drilling out the nipple. I had previously ground and filed both the leftover edge of the nipple that was left (after hacksawwing) and the bung perfectly flat. I worried most about getting the drill bit started exactly in the center of the nipple so as to not leave any of the "meat" of the nipple on one side of the hole. All you want left are the threads or the tapping will be more difficult and, worse, maybe leak.
P.S. to that paragraph: The drill bit I got has end mill type cutting edges, not the normal twist drill type. I cuts like a MmmmFffer. Chips the size of your grandfather's toenails and you better have a grip on that electric drill. Steady and easy.
I probably removed and cleaned and regreased and oiled the drill and the hole way more times than necessary, but this HAD to go right. And it did :)(http://)
Yesterday (Sat) things more or less aligned again and I went " 'atapping". It was VERY hard (I don't have the strength I usta and my hands and wrists really HURT) and I took LOTs of breaks and again probably overcleaned the tap and the hole of chips more than necessary. You're honking a lot of meat (the leftover nipple threads) out with a tap this large and you only get a tiny bite at a time and you must back off a hair to clear the chips, then again a little tiny bite. And repeat. But it went well considering.
There are only barely 6 threads on the petcock before the lockwasher hits the bung. And there is a tiny "wiggle" with it threaded in all the way to the LW. I also found a very thin aluminum washer in my stash that fits PERfectly over the threads.
I'm thinking fuel resistant Teflon tape (if they have it at Ace Hardware*) plus a sealer of some kind. I'm thinking SealAll or fuel resistant, hardening Permatex.
Opinions? Ideas? I will NOT have it leak!
* I think the regular white would probably be OK on 6 threads where the bung is at least 12 threads thick. No tape will ever get in the tank + there are two filters.
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Even the cheap Teflon tape from HF will do the job admirably. Be sure to give it a couple good wraps, but you already know that, I'm sure. Glad you went slow on the tap. Would have been a real bummer if it broke, or any of the threads were messed up.
See next post...
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It's a DONE DEAL!
Bike's finished and delivered No Refunds. No Returns. ;)
15 pics, so bear with me ove r the next several posts.
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Details:
Added nice door edging to front/rear mudguards.
Replaced the crap Indian stone guard with a high quality one meant for a VW.
Fly Screen, GPS Speedo and 2" bar risers.
Tank (and Mud Guards) cleaned down to bare metal, steel-wooled, and clear coated (two good coats), then waxed four or five times. Dents from accident left in tank for "character".
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More details:
Left side. Fake Oil Tank. Remove the cap with the RE decal and access the Lithium Battery and charging pigtail. Black box below is an electronics project box housing the signals relay, brake switch, and 10/15 amp blade fuses. Note that all wiring was covered with a nice wire loom.
Right side. Cap on fake oil tank is removable to access the starter relay. Added a fake oil level sight glass for kicks. Mike prefers the electric start and wanted the kicker out of the way, but available if he needed it, so I bolted it to the upper lug that once held the RH side box.
Right side. Slash cut exhaust.
Left side. Engine detail.
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Right side. Engine detail and replaced those AWFUL foot pegs.
Right side. Engine detail. Went with bare copper on the oil lines.
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For a goof replaced the plastic tire valve caps with these.
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Just got off the phone with the guy. Checked to make sure he and the bike made it back Santa Fe in good shape.
Nope. Got all the way back to SF and dumped the bike getting out of the back of his truck. ::) No damage, but slight twist to the bars. Walked him through straightening, and all is good.
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Even the cheap Teflon tape from HF will do the job admirably. Be sure to give it a couple good wraps, but you already know that, I'm sure. Glad you went slow on the tap. Would have been a real bummer if it broke, or any of the threads were messed up.
See next post...
That's my thought also. I feel I can probably make it leakproof with Teflon tape only. I'm going to experiment today with the number of layers of tape it takes to get "the feel" right. I can tell by the torque it takes to finish the last turn to align the petcock properly whether it will be leakproof or not.
I still don't like the idea of having that 1 1/2" standpipe in the tank. I don't believe that filter is removable (I tried fingers only, no luck) without F-ing it up or I would cut it off (the standpipe). Adrian: If you read this - what do YOU think?
And next! You have done one helluva nice job on that bike! You should be damn happy with the job you've done and I hope "the guy" gets his shit together and doesn't F-ing drop it again! The kicker is a nice touch (instead of a ballpean hammer? :) ;)(http://) ). I can see the work and sweat that you put in :) :)(http://)
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I still don't like the idea of having that 1 1/2" standpipe in the tank. I don't believe that filter is removable (I tried fingers only, no luck) without F-ing it up or I would cut it off (the standpipe). Adrian: If you read this - what do YOU think?
You just want a good supply of clean fuel arriving at the carb, which needs some kind of filter. Exactly what kind of filter is up to you, but if it can pass filtered fuel quicker than your main jet you're winning. I just read AzCal Retred's post in one of the iron barrel threads, he recommends installing a 10 - 40 micron clear filter, so replacing the petcock's filter with an in-line thingy is fine. I think I'd still want the standpipe filter on the petcock, even if it's just for straining out any bigger lumps.
My Dell'Orto carbs have quite a fine mesh filter screen in the fuel pipe banjo, Amals do too, but I think the fuel inlet pipe for the Mikuni goes straight to the float valve - correct me if I'm wrong. I learnt by experience that the otherwise excellent VM32 on my old BSA didn't like crud under the float valve for some reason (and told me so by trying to drain the tank), fitting an in-line filter followed very quickly.
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You can also get liquid/paste PTFE for sealing the petcock thread, there may be some suitable grades of Loctite too. I also tried Dowty washers, but unsuccessfully!
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Thanks, twoseevee! :)
Yeah, my stomach kinda sank briefly when he first told me what happened.
There is a ground rise inside the sidewalk that is perfect for getting the bike out of the back of his truck. All he had to do was back up to it, drop the tail gate, and roll the bike out. Easy Peasy.
Instead he and a friend tried to use a 2x12x10 plank to walk it off the back, though I carefully explained why they shouldn't do it that way. ::)
But after walking them through resetting the bars all is good. :)
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Adrian,
Correct about the VM32 has no screen between the filler pipe and the bowl. I'm currently looking for a 3-5 micron filter to back me, though the petcock filter bowl looks good.
Ya just never know what's gonna fly into your tank while filling it. New Mexico is the land of sand, dust, and bugs year 'round. >:(
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You just want a good supply of clean fuel arriving at the carb, which needs some kind of filter. Exactly what kind of filter is up to you, but if it can pass filtered fuel quicker than your main jet you're winning. I think I'd still want the standpipe filter on the petcock, even if it's just for straining out any bigger lumps.
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Yes. I want to leave the petcock filter IF I can free it from the petcock without ruining it. What I want gone is the 1 1/2" high standpipe which will prevent a lot of gas from even GETting to the petcock.
The 2nd reason is that I'll have to put a LOT of gas in the tank to get Above that standpipe and if the petcock drips on my first try, I Can't Drain The Tank without unscrewing the petcock and catching all that gas in a can. PITA!
I think I'll wait until night to start this. I couldn't get to it this morning and it's 85 now and like a steam bath.
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Yes. I want to leave the petcock filter IF I can free it from the petcock without ruining it. What I want gone is the 1 1/2" high standpipe which will prevent a lot of gas from even GETting to the petcock.
The 2nd reason is that I'll have to put a LOT of gas in the tank to get Above that standpipe and if the petcock drips on my first try, I Can't Drain The Tank without unscrewing the petcock and catching all that gas in a can. PITA!
I think I'll wait until night to start this. I couldn't get to it this morning and it's 85 now and like a steam bath.
Well, once it cooled off last night and I got my brain in gear I realized the filter's not a press fit into the petcock, it's THREADED. Of course it is :-[(http://)
So out with the trusty Dremel, chopped the standpipe off, cleaned up the edges and SCREWED the filter back in. 3 or 4 layers of Teflon tape, screwed 'er in, lined her up, tightened her down. 1/2 a gallon of gas. Soak test overnight. Not a sign of a leak this morning.
And I was VERY close to putting it in with the standpipe which would have been STUPID.
Gotta mow a little this morning before it pours rain then I'll button her up with new fuel line.
Again - be skeptical of the ads, double check, do your homework. This petcock, according to the Part Number stated in the ad, was supposed to be the one WITHOUT the standpipe. It was NOT!
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So out with the trusty Dremel, chopped the standpipe off, cleaned up the edges and SCREWED the filter back in. 3 or 4 layers of Teflon tape, screwed 'er in, lined her up, tightened her down. 1/2 a gallon of gas. Soak test overnight. Not a sign of a leak this morning.
Well, I know you all are sick to death of this petcock, but the saga continues ::)
Over time I found that there is weeping at the threads. Never enough to form a drip, but still shows on a dry finger wiped across the bung.
Drained, pulled it out and found the cheapass "teflon" tape was mush. Good for water maybe, but not gasoline.
SO. Got some genuine Teflon tape which I will try once the threads have totally dried out. I think I'll go 5 layers this time. Using 3 last time I felt it should have been harder to screw in, but the tape I had was no good in gasoline anyway.
IF this (5 layers of tape that doesn't dissolve) still weeps I'll add Permatex 85420 along with the tape and try it again.
I think there is still doubt in my mind about these threads vis-a-vis the BSP tap I used and what the threads on the petcock ACTUALLY are. The petcock just does NOT feel right when screwed in. The threads don't feel as though they mate at all.
My last resort will be to just remove the filter from the petcock and use J-BWeld. Then I'll add another micro filter ahead of the 2ndary filter that's already there.
BTW I don't mind doing this. I hated that OEM petcock the whole time it was on the bike.