Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: qgolden on July 28, 2010, 03:01:49 am
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Back in the day, (love starting a paragraph with that phrase) lots of smaller bikes did not have Tachs on 'em. some of 'em had hash markes on the speedo which would indicate maximum speed in each gear. One hash mark around 10 MPH for first, two around 20 or so for second etc. RE does not do that nor do we have a tach. I checked the manual but it does not give any refrence to maximum speed in each gear. Has anyone ever seen any documentation from the factory regarding this?
Second question has anyone ever seen a peak HP/Torque curve chart for these engines?
-Q
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Fairly certain the information you seek is in the threads
Search them especially Ace Cafe's posts.
For certain there is a dyno chart or two in the threads,here's one
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,3242.msg41775.html#msg41775 (http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,3242.msg41775.html#msg41775)
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Back in the day, (love starting a paragraph with that phrase) lots of smaller bikes did not have Tachs on 'em. some of 'em had hash markes on the speedo which would indicate maximum speed in each gear. One hash mark around 10 MPH for first, two around 20 or so for second etc. RE does not do that nor do we have a tach. I checked the manual but it does not give any refrence to maximum speed in each gear. Has anyone ever seen any documentation from the factory regarding this?
Second question has anyone ever seen a peak HP/Torque curve chart for these engines?
-Q
Q:
Your second question answer - A torque and HP curve for EFI was published on this Forum several months ago. You can do some searches to find it. If I see it again, I will add the link.
Your First question - Maximum speed in each gear. Here is what I follow on my G5 now a days.
UPSHIFT @ 15 mph on the speedometer to 2nd Gear
@ 25 mph on the speedometer to 3rd Gear
@ 35 mph on the speedometer to 4th Gear
@ 45 mph on the speedometer to 5th Gear.
You can stretch a bit more at higher gears. The ECU is programmed to cut off fuel supply if the bike reaches a MAXIMUM RPM of 5500.
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Need to add a correction factor for my Speedometer because it is off.
The true speed is 13 mph - when speedo reads 15 mph
22 mph - when speedo reads 25 mph
31 mph - when speedo reads 35 mph
40 mph - when speedo reads 45 mph
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In your Hand Book, look up " Run-In". What does it say?
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The ECU is programmed to cut off fuel supply if the bike reaches a MAXIMUM RPM of 5500.
Just curious, anyone hit the rev limiter yet? What's it like? On my Kawasaki it was a nice gentle loss of power. On the Ducati it was abrupt and would throw the bike a little if you were in a corner. Most disconcerting.
Scott
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According Geardata 2.11 here the MaxRevs in km/h for the G5:
17 sprockets (original)
1. 47
2. 71
3. 89
4. 112
5. 136
18 sprockets (optinal from c5)
1. 49
2. 75
3. 95
4. 119
5. 144
Since mine ran only 1000 km no contact to the limiter (yet ;D)
The problem I am facing now is: how fast am I? The Speedo allows only rough estimates.
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I'm pretty sure they consider 5200 rpm to be maximum rpm on the UCE.
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My manual says the maximum performance is at 5250 rpm, so I think the red zone starts at 5500.
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I'm pretty sure they consider 5200 rpm to be maximum rpm on the UCE.
My manual says the maximum performance is at 5250 rpm, so I think the red zone starts at 5500.
Ace:
As Maturin has just posted, while I was typing this reply, these RPM values are listed in the RE factory issued manuals. Here are the pictures -
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According Geardata 2.11 here the MaxRevs in km/h for the G5:
17 sprockets (original)
1. 47
2. 71
3. 89
4. 112
5. 136
18 sprockets (optinal from c5)
1. 49
2. 75
3. 95
4. 119
5. 144
Since mine ran only 1000 km no contact to the limiter (yet ;D)
The problem I am facing now is: how fast am I? The Speedo allows only rough estimates.
Maturin:
You have posted interesting numbers. I am just converting your figures to mph for US speedometers, which are in mph.
What is Geardata 2.11 ?
FOR G5
1 Gear - 47 kph = 29 mph
2 Gear - 71 kph = 44 mph
3 Gear - 89 kph = 56 mph
4 Gear - 112 kph = 70 mph
5 Gear - 136 kph = 83 mph
Did you calculate these figures from the gear ratio, which are listed as 3.063, 2.013, 1.522, 1.212 and 1 ? Using these gear ratios, I came up with values close to what you have. These are as follows -
1 Gear = 27 mph
2 Gear = 41 mph
3 Gear = 54 mph
4 Gear = 68 mph
5 Gear = 83 mph
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Singhg5
I was just about to post the same question, THX I apreciate the upshift data, but I am looking for the maximum RPM in each gear. I do not really have an ear for this single and with no tach I don't know where I am in the power curve.
ICE
I did find dyna charts, THX,
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6995.0;attach=6418;image
REPozer,
As was posted the manual does not answer my question, it just gives the maximum but know way to tell when you hit it!
THX all for the replies.
Are the Gear Ratio's the same for the G5 and C5? I can do some math and get my answers if they are.
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OH and here is the conversion KPH to MPH for the C5 (using data from Maturin)
Gear KPH MPH
1st 49 = 30
2nd 75 = 46
3rd 95 = 59
4th 119 = 74
5th 144 = 89
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Singhg5
I was just about to post the same question, THX I apreciate the upshift data, but I am looking for the maximum RPM in each gear. I do not really have an ear for this single and with no tach I don't know where I am in the power curve.
ICE
I did find dyna charts, THX,
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6995.0;attach=6418;image
REPozer,
As was posted the manual does not answer my question, it just gives the maximum but know way to tell when you hit it!
THX all for the replies.
Are the Gear Ratio's the same for the G5 and C5? I can do some math and get my answers if they are.
Quinn:
We are playing 'musical chair' ! We are both calculating and posting at the same time ;D
First, I am glad you found the correct graph of power vs. rpm for EFI.
Second, the OVERALL gear ratio is the same for G5 and C5. The secondary ratio is 2.235:1 for G5 and 2.11:1 for C5.
I have modified my previous post with some more calculations which were not there when it was first posted !!
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REPozer,
As was posted the manual does not answer my question, it just gives the maximum but know way to tell when you hit it!
Seems easy enough then. Running the throttle at" Rabbit" would be bad. Closer to "turtle" would be better. Without exceeding the "Hand Book" speed, or "loading" ,"lugging' or "pinging" the engine.
Those speeds probably assume a level road with no head wind or elevation.
Still have to pay attention to conditions.
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singhg5
By "secondary" I presume you are referring to the final drive ratio based on the output spocket to the rear wheel sprocket?
The Ratios of the Tranny Gears are the same for each, correct?
-Quinn
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OK, did some more research and worked that out for myself.
REPozer, while I can appreciate and even envy folks like yourself who can get by with that logic (and it is perfectly logical) I am way to anal retentive to get by with that. I know it makes sense and the machine was obviously designed to be operated that way. Not having a tach really bugs me.
Soooo, with that in mind....
Understanding that Red-line is 5500.
It stops producing HP at 5250 so there is no point in revving beyond that.
I want a margin of safety so I would not want to exceed 5000 RPM, the HP produced between 5000 and 5250 is negligible anyway.
If I wanted to not exceed 5000 RPM's then I would shift at the following.
First Second Third Fourth Fifth
26mph 45mph 62mpg 75 mph 81mph
That is where my hash marks go.
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Golden,
Alright. I don't need no stinking tach. ;)
Those shift points would be more for living on the edge, or pushing the the envelope.
Nice to know, but that's not where you want to live.
Unless you just stole it and running from the police.
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Yah I agree, but that is where the math comes out. Providin' I did my cypherin' right.
Anyone please feel free to review and correct me if I am wrong.
Actually if someone could confirm my numbers are right would be cool....
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I clearly overestimated geardata, its a little gear calculator (sic!) but there is not even an english version. I´m sure thre are similar english programs somewhere in the net.
If your maximum is 5000 rpm your marks should be at:
1. 26 mph
2. 40
3. 53
4. 66
5. 80
I calculated tese figures with the original specifications stated in the manual. I used the data of the 100/90 rear tire instead of the 3.50 that is mounted on my bike but there is barely a difference.
For me its obvious now that I can be much less carefull than I thought! This little unit can take much more than you think, even if it sounds a bit strained sometimes ;D
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Maturin,
I wonder why yours and my numbers for first gear and 5th gear are the same, but the middle gears are different?
Did you use these ratios or is my data off?
Gear ratio of each gear in the tranny
1st 3.063:1
2nd 2.013:1
3rd 1.522:1
4th 1.212:1
5th 1.00:1
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Hmm.... :P....I checked these figures a couple of times but they should be correct. Your steps between the 4/5 gear aswell as 3/4 gear are looking a bit odd, maybe there is a mistake. If should be wrong I owe you a beer :D
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OK,
Well I would be tempted to just go with your numbers 'cause they are more conservative than mine. But I pressed on. I sell power transmission for a living, gearboxes, speed reducers etc. So I used the data available to me. But I been wrong before. I went online to search for Gear Calculators. I found several that are not worth a darn, but this one looked pretty good. The creator allows you to enter data for Bikes that he did not list. You can also change the data to do "what ifs".
The entire site seems to be down except for this one page, so I don't know how long it will last. But I entered the data for the C5 as I know it. If you click the drop down menu at the top left Royal Enfield is the last bike on the list.
Numbers calculated at this website are spot on closer to yours than mine.
http://woodsware.aciwebs.com/gears/gears.asp
So I guess my question has been answered and I know where the tick marks go... :)
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Boy oh boy, those Iron bikes sure were simpler.
All you had to do to them is ride em.
If your hands tingled and your fillings fell out you were over revving it.
CJ
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Well, that is what you get when you let a few Anal Retentive Over Analyzing Type A Personalities into the room! :) Here is the data for peak Torque and Peak HP.
If you choose 5000 RPM's as your personal Redline as I have, then here is your maximum speed in each gear. I included Torque for those who like to shift at peak torque. Note that the Maximum Power is higher than Redline in the chart because maximum Power is up at 5250 RPM and I am holding at 5000. Maximunm Torque is calculated at 4000 RPM.
Speed (MPH) at:
Gear Redline Torque Power
1st 26.7 21.3 28
2nd 40.6 32.5 42.6
3rd 53.7 42.9 56.4
4th 67.4 53.9 70.8
5th 81.7 65.4 85.8
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Sounds like the BMW crowd is moving into the neighborhood.
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Sounds like the BMW crowd is moving into the neighborhood.
Hmm, they seem kinda silly.
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My bike usually tells me when to shift, I just play it by ear and it works great.
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Hmm, they seem kinda silly.
Yeah, don't overthink it.
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".....My bike usually tells me when to shift, I just play it by ear and it works great....."
Quite! It aint rocket science is it..... ::)
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Did I mention that there is a program that calculates the chain length in case of sprocket change? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Does it take into account ambient temperature and sprocket wear? ;D
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Ambient temperature is important, but don't forget the moon phase and star position.
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And you need your horoscope and your bikes. Don't be foolish, the bikes birthday is the day it rolled off the line and NOT the day you bought it. I can't tell you how many times I've had people get that wrong!
Scott
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the bikes birthday is the day it rolled off the line and NOT the day you bought it. I can't tell you how many times I've had people get that wrong
Good 'un, heh heh heh..
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And you need your horoscope and your bikes. Don't be foolish, the bikes birthday is the day it rolled off the line and NOT the day you bought it. I can't tell you how many times I've had people get that wrong!
Scott
Oh no, I gave the Stygian Witches the wrong date! Man are they gonna be mad at me.
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I went online to search for Gear Calculators. I found several that are not worth a darn, but this one looked pretty good. The creator allows you to enter data for Bikes that he did not list. You can also change the data to do "what ifs".
The entire site seems to be down except for this one page, so I don't know how long it will last. But I entered the data for the C5 as I know it. If you click the drop down menu at the top left Royal Enfield is the last bike on the list.
Numbers calculated at this website are spot on closer to yours than mine.
http://woodsware.aciwebs.com/gears/gears.asp
So I guess my question has been answered and I know where the tick marks go... :)
I went to this site that you have posted in the link. Saw the data you had entered for C5 and it also showed the table of RPMs and speed etc. Was interesting.
Sounds like the BMW crowd is moving into the neighborhood.
Ernie: RE is metamorphosing into A B M W ;D Keep the calculator handy.
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".....I went to this site that you have posted in the link. Saw the data you had entered for C5 and it also showed the table of RPMs and speed etc. Was interesting...."
Agreed. And reassuring to discover that I habitually ride well within the most efficient torque range, even when I think I've been pushing it a bit..! One possible exception was when for no reason other than brain fade-out I changed down when I meant to change up! :o
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".....I went to this site that you have posted in the link. Saw the data you had entered for C5 and it also showed the table of RPMs and speed etc. Was interesting...."
Agreed. And reassuring to discover that I habitually ride well within the most efficient torque range, even when I think I've been pushing it a bit..! One possible exception was when for no reason other than brain fade-out I changed down when I meant to change up! :o
That my new friends was exactly the reason that I wanted to go through the excercise. I want to ride in the most efficient power range. Particulary when I have the Sidecar on.