Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: jkrobin on July 25, 2013, 08:23:17 pm
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Hi, all, and greetings! Fairly new C5 (Chrome; 2012) owner here, and I'm having one hell of a time with an oil level issue.
I'm at about 750 miles on the bike and am doing my first non-shop oil change on the Enfield. On center stand, after warming the engine for a few minutes, draining, tipping left and right to complete drain, cleaning screen, changing filter, and putting the new oil in slowly until the level in the oil window was at the correct level, I started the bike, let it run for a few minutes and waited a good hour to check the level. After an hour the oil window was completely filled, just as it was when I shut the engine off. (No clear space at the top of the window at all.)
I put the bike over on the side stand and then back up on the center stand, and the oil was then at the correct level. I read somewhere here in the forums, however, that having it over on the side stand would put oil over in a non-draining area, so I started up again, warmed engine, cut off, and waited again. Again the window shows completely full (no clear area at the top at all).
So, I started all over again, thinking I had somehow overfilled... drained oil, slowly filled to correct level in window, started engine, cut off, and waited. Window shows completely full.
I've read several threads here on the forums about oil levels, but I just can't seem to get a good reading. Any help on a correct procedure/reading would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
jkrobin
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It is a bit tricky to see where the level is. start out riding the bike so the oil gets warmed up, then park is in its parking spot, kill the engine and do something else for about 5 minutes. Now go back and check the oil. It should be between the lines. If it's low go ahead and pour a little more in. Be careful, it doesn't take much. If it's above the top of the window, kinda push the bike to the left and determine how high it is. If it's just barely above the window I wouldn't worry about it. The next thing to do is to turn the bike 180 degrees and look at the level again. It doesn't take much slope to make a difference in the reading. If the level is visible on both sides just average it out and that's where the level is and you can adjust from there. If it averages out between the lines, you're good to go. Just remember where the level was when you had it in it's normal parking spot and adjust from there. Use that as your normal level. If it's higher than a about a 1/4" you may want to drain a bit out.
When you ride it and get home, go through the waiting ritual, good time to get out of your gear and move it into its spot, if you didn't park it there, then check it. Once you get used to seeing it, you'll soon understand where it needs to be. If you're checking it in a strange parking lot, expect variations because of slopes! Mine never used much oil, maybe a half cup in 4000 miles.
Bare
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Bare: thanks very much for the tips. I never would have considered the 180-degree item!
A follow-up, however: this just doesn't make sense to me... if I fill to the correct window level, warm the engine, shut off, wait, then re-check the level all without moving the Enfield off of the center stand (so no slope changes at all from when I filled), I should be getting a good reading. Or am I just missing something in my thinking here? If anything, the level should read too low if some oil is getting pooled somewhere while warming, not too high as is the case with me.
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I know you said you tipped the bike to the right but I'm betting there was still some extra oil trapped in the engines left hand side cover.
When you filled the oil level to the right place on the sight guage and then started the engine, the extra oil that was trapped in the sidecover was pumped by the engine back into the oil sump giving a overfilled reading on the sight guage.
If my idea is true I suggest that you just go ahead and ride the bike as it is. Although it looks a bit overfilled, it really isn't overfilled to the point that it should cause any problems.
The only real problem that can be caused is some of the excess oil will be blown out of the crankcase ventilator.
This vent hose is connected to the air filter plenum so you might want to remove it's cover and check on it a few times after a few rides. If it doesn't have any oil around its outlet in the plenum other than what would be caused from a light mist, your good to go.
If there is any signs of some real oil getting into the filter plenum, get a clean pan and drain maybe a pint of oil out of the sump and then reinstall the drain plug. Start the engine and then shut it off and recheck the oil level. Then add some of the oil you just drained back into the engine to the middle of the sight window.
Because this happened, the next time you change your engines oil, refill it to the bottom sight guage line. Then start the engine and see what happened. :)
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Thanks, Jim.
Unfortunately, the universe is conspiring against me and I won't be able to get to checking/adjusting/riding until tomorrow evening (or maybe even Saturday morning).... even though today is the absolute best day weather-wise to be riding here in central Virginia in a long time.
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the damned oil level boomerang! i know it's confusing, and i had to replace the factory air filter at the first oil change. these motors don't take alot of oil in the first place. i put in almost 2 quarts last interval. sure doesn't seem adequate' but that's what it wanted.
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Very good advice in the above posts.
Just like to add -
As you mentioned in your first post, if you observed the sightglass properly and 'the oil was then at the correct level'; the easy thing to do is to get 2x 2 litre plastic measuring containers. Drain your old oil and put it in one of the containers and note down how much oil came out. And then pour the brand new oil in the second container, the same amount as what came out. Pour it in the engine. Or you can directly pour it through the new oil bottle, they already have markings. Whatever suits you best.
This way you know that you have put in almost the right amount of new oil. Now you can start your engine for a bit, give it some little baby revs and turn it off. Check the level again, and top up if necessary...or drain a little :-X
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Thanks, JVS. Sounds like a good oil strategy going forward.
My concern up to that point, however, is making sure I get the right amount of oil in there in the first place! :o
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I rocked my bike back and forth several before I was done letting the oil drain out. I usually had to replace 2 qts or a touch over.
Bare
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Thanks, Bare. ...lots of different estimates around here for the amount of oil that needs to go in. Reminds me a bit of the speed hypothesizer. ;D
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I've always had difficulty getting my oil level to show consistent levels in the window so I thought I would test some of the theories put forth in this thread. After I installed my new battery today I took my bike for a ride then when I returned I made sure to keep the bike upright and put it in my garage on its centrestand. After letting it sit I checked the level and it was over the top of the window. I then put it on it's side stand, let it sit a minute or so then back on it's centre stand. The window was empty with just a trace of oil at the bottom. I turned the bike end for end and it made a difference of half of the window, this on a concrete floor with just the usual slight slope to allow for drainage. Now all the problems I've had getting consistent oil level reading make sense......I think.
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i think there is only one way - once you have it correct the first time and do an oil change measure what comes out and put the exact amount back in.
it's not as if these machines are oil eaters....well mine isn't ;D
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Can someone who actually knows (Kevin?) explain RE's thought process in doing away with a perfectly good dipstick & putting an oil sight glass in the UCE?
I've been amazed by the problems I've read about for three years from people with AVLs who just can't seem to get their oil level figured out using the dipstick & now there are thousands more words written on the oil sight glass problems.
Why did they have to do away with the dipstick? What's next? A row of various colored oil level LEDs?
What was the problem with a dipstick? Were people getting oil on their fingers?
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Okay, don't take my word on this of course. This is my view on why RE incorporated the oil sight glass on the UCE engines.
Have a look at the following pictures -
(http://i.imgur.com/h1lAbgn.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/mehwdQr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vVnV2EE.jpg)
The above engines are of the 250cc Royal Enfield Crusader. I think the RE engineers have reproduced the UCE engine in the image of the aforementioned Crusader's own UCE. According to my little research, and examination of the pictures, we can see that the RE Crusader's dipstick is where the present day electric start motor sits, along with the crank position sensor and tons of wires. Here's a vid of the Crusader http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vleMmLsDhL8
And here are some internal pics of the Crusader UCE which is owned by our fellow member 'The Garbone' - http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?topic=8861.15
Our modern day UCE -
(http://i.imgur.com/LYHaw6x.jpg?1)
I wouldn't know where and how the engineers could've included a dipstick on our UCEs with the EFI/starter motor and all the intricacies of the engine internals, but I am sure it would have been possible..where the oil filler hole is. Forgive my noobness, but wouldn't the dipstick idea work on the oil filler lid/screw type thinggy? Just attach some sort of level/stick on the cap so that when you unscrew the thing and take it out, you can observe the oil level. Just like the CI engines. But then, wouldn't this require that the engine be cold and should've been sitting on a flat surface to accurately observe the level? Either way, it still seems like a better option as compared to the sight-glass.
There must be a real good reason for not including the dipstick on the UCEs. I am also interested in a more detailed/knowledgeable/philosophical answer to this question haha. Maybe the RE engineers were just lazy and wanted to give this a go :o :D