[CPJS]

Uncle STU talks a bit of sense, for the UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS2Kq_qzl-A

[whippers]

I haven’t watched most of his videos for awhile even through I’m still subscribed. Sick of the politics and the spruiking of mostly crappy accessories

[Jon_98]

Some of the issues he covers impact the US as well, specifically telemetry devices being mandated for vehicles...... it's buried in the "Build back better" legislation.

[Blazes Boylan]

I got about ten minutes in then had to stop watching.  Uncle Stu is even more verbose than my right wing uncles, which is saying a lot, and an even bigger font of misinformation.

[zimmemr]

Some of the issues he covers impact the US as well, specifically telemetry devices being mandated for vehicles...... it's buried in the "Build back better" legislation.

Telemetry devices are already installed in lot's of vehicles. At the public utility I worked for the first thing we did whenever one of our vehicles was involved in an accident was hook up the scan tool and take a look at the logged information, which among other things told us speed, when the brakes were applied, whether ABS engaged and so on. In several cases having that info exonerated our drivers.

[NVDucati]

Telemetry devices are already installed in lot's of vehicles. At the public utility I worked for the first thing we did whenever one of our vehicles was involved in an accident was hook up the scan tool and take a look at the logged information, which among other things told us speed, when the brakes were applied, whether ABS engaged and so on. In several cases having that info exonerated our drivers.

Those devices are on a 20 second loop of stored info, as I recall. They were in all production GM cars, I think, about 2011 in the USA. Other brands followed.

[Jon_98]

I know that many business vehicles and rental vehicles have telemetry devices and have had for several years.... but for a privately owned vehicle, does a buyer know it's there and consent to it? I'm thinking 4th Amendment here. Suffice it to say I don't like/trust "smart" devices.

[zimmemr]

Those devices are on a 20 second loop of stored info, as I recall. They were in all production GM cars, I think, about 2011 in the USA. Other brands followed.

I don't recall the time frame, but that sounds about right. Most of what you needed to know occured in the last few seconds before impact. On some vehicles, International trucks from around 2012 for one example, you could pull information like average vehicle speed, mileage or how much time the truck had spent idling, even how many times the ABS had come on, from the day the truck was built. A lot of our drivers were scared of it, but like I said, having that info cleared a few guys who might otherwise have been in some trouble after an accident.

[JessHerbst]

Telemetry devices are already installed in lot's of vehicles. At the public utility I worked for the first thing we did whenever one of our vehicles was involved in an accident was hook up the scan tool and take a look at the logged information, which among other things told us speed, when the brakes were applied, whether ABS engaged and so on. In several cases having that info exonerated our drivers.

I drive Audi & VW cars and use Rosstech software to ‘talk’ to the cars. There are tons of things you can do, i.e. set the windows to roll down when unlock fob is held down, change unlock behavior, modify sound system, etc.
 I’ve poked around in the system quite a-lot and never found any stored data other than fault codes.

[travbee]

I drive Audi & VW cars and use Rosstech software to ‘talk’ to the cars. There are tons of things you can do, i.e. set the windows to roll down when unlock fob is held down, change unlock behavior, modify sound system, etc.
 I’ve poked around in the system quite a-lot and never found any stored data other than fault codes.

"waves at fellow VAG driver"

[iblastoff]

lol what a dumb video. cant believe i wasted time watching part of it. why share this trash.

[dickim]

lol what a dumb video. cant believe i wasted time watching part of it. why share this trash.

Confucius says "One man's Trash is another man's Treasure" 🤣🤣 it's about personal choice

[JLewis]

It sounds like it's very much in line with all UK transport policy, rather than singling out bikes in particular.

Ol' Stu sounds like one of those scaremongering 70s and 80s MAG reps, you know, those guys who were on the dole but led all the protest rides on brand new Shovelheads while we wobbled along behind on shagged-out Superdreams wondering where our MAG contributions went...

[dickim]

Jeez I may have to have a watch of this Guy see what it's about 🤣🤣

[5SpeedRacer]

I haven’t watched most of his videos for awhile even through I’m still subscribed. Sick of the politics and the spruiking of mostly crappy accessories

"Sick of the politics" you may be but that is exactly what governments the world over rely on. Nobody pays any attention then before you know it the freedoms you took for granted are a thing of the past.

[justonemore]

lol what a dumb video. cant believe i wasted time watching part of it. why share this trash.

I found it very interesting. Will watch a second time soon and I don't even live in the UK.

[zimmemr]

I drive Audi & VW cars and use Rosstech software to ‘talk’ to the cars. There are tons of things you can do, i.e. set the windows to roll down when unlock fob is held down, change unlock behavior, modify sound system, etc.
 I’ve poked around in the system quite a-lot and never found any stored data other than fault codes.

I can only speak about vehicles and diagnostic systems  I've had experiance with and as far as Audi,VW and Rostech goes that's exactly zero.

 In this instance I'm talking about International and Ford trucks, I probably should have made that clearer.  For all of our diagnostic work we used factory supplied software such as Cummins Insite, or International NED. For smaller vehicles All Data.  As mentioned I could pull up info like speed, brake application, acceleration rates, what gear the truck was in and so forth. Even how much fuel and at what rate it was used since the first fill up. Once you knew where to look accessing the info took about 30 seconds.

FWIW the first time I used it was when a lineman went off the road during an ice storm and totaled a new ish, Ford F750 with an Altech bucket worth around 250K. He claimed he was looking for an address and simply lost control on a very slick downhill. When we went in to the ECU we found he was traveling at 7 mph at time of impact, brakes were fully applied, and the ABS was working but not engaged, which meant that all the wheels had stopped turning due to the ice. It backed up his story and he was off the hook.

[JessHerbst]

I can only speak about vehicles and diagnostic systems  I've had experiance with and as far as Audi,VW and Rostech goes that's exactly zero.

 In this instance I'm talking about International and Ford trucks, I probably should have made that clearer.  For all of our diagnostic work we used factory supplied software such as Cummins Insite, or International NED. For smaller vehicles All Data.  As mentioned I could pull up info like speed, brake application, acceleration rates, what gear the truck was in and so forth. Even how much fuel and at what rate it was used since the first fill up. Once you knew where to look accessing the info took about 30 seconds.

The Rosstech VAG is similar. Its not cheap and you will spend some time learning where things are in the system. Once you know its quick & easy to change.
 Most things are read in binary and you need a lookup chart to know what each byte represents. Rosstech provides that chart.
 

[zimmemr]

The Rosstech VAG is similar. Its not cheap and you will spend some time learning where things are in the system. Once you know its quick & easy to change.
 Most things are read in binary and you need a lookup chart to know what each byte represents. Rosstech provides that chart.

Edited by OP

That sounds like way more work than the systems we were using. 

[axman88]

My understanding, (not from watching Fillingham, there isn't enough time in my life for that) is that legislation is being passed to pave the way for the anticipated self driving vehicles.  The easiest way for an autonomous vehicle to avoid hitting other vehicles, is for every vehicle on the road to be broadcasting its position, speed and direction, even, and perhaps especially, those that are piloted by humans.  A guidance system process this data and look for any "blips" that are relevant to the path they intend to take.

Governments will make it mandatory to include such systems, and illegal to tamper with them.  I imagine that some years from now, the whole system will be no larger than a business card, cheap and readily available to retrofit to our human guided dinosaur bikes.  Of course the side effect of this is, any vehicle will be readily trackable to those with the knowledge and equipment.

[zimmemr]

My understanding, (not from watching Fillingham, there isn't enough time in my life for that) is that legislation is being passed to pave the way for the anticipated self driving vehicles.  The easiest way for an autonomous vehicle to avoid hitting other vehicles, is for every vehicle on the road to be broadcasting its position, speed and direction, even, and perhaps especially, those that are piloted by humans.  A guidance system process this data and look for any "blips" that are relevant to the path they intend to take.

Governments will make it mandatory to include such systems, and illegal to tamper with them.  I imagine that some years from now, the whole system will be no larger than a business card, cheap and readily available to retrofit to our human guided dinosaur bikes.  Of course the side effect of this is, any vehicle will be readily trackable to those with the knowledge and equipment.

At CL&P we used a vendor installed system very similar to what you describe. Basically it was a GPS about the size of a pack of cigarettes, that broadcast the trucks position and speed. If you needed to know where the truck was all you had to do was enter the truck number and it displayed in real time where the truck was and how fast it was going. It also sent red flag alerts anytime the truck broke the speed limit or the brakes were applied harder then expected. As you can imagine a lot of the units "failed" in service.

During road tests we'd sometimes run them up to about 75 mph, which was 10 mph faster then was allowed and then jump on the brakes, which set off both overspeed and over brake alarms, and almost always prompted the dispatchers to send us a nastygram.

Before I retired the system was abandoned, but as far as I know that was a political decision.

[Jack Straw]

The approach of this brave new world makes me glad I'm old.

[JessHerbst]

At CL&P we used a vendor installed system very similar to what you describe. Basically it was a GPS about the size of a pack of cigarettes, that broadcast the trucks position and speed. If you needed to know where the truck was all you had to do was enter the truck number and it displayed in real time where the truck was and how fast it was going. It also sent red flag alerts anytime the truck broke the speed limit or the brakes were applied harder then expected. As you can imagine a lot of the units "failed" in service.

During road tests we'd sometimes run them up to about 75 mph, which was 10 mph faster then was allowed and then jump on the brakes, which set off both overspeed and over brake alarms, and almost always prompted the dispatchers to send us a nastygram.

Before I retired the system was abandoned, but as far as I know that was a political decision.

These days I think cell phone tracker supply the same info. I can real time track deliveries from UPS, doordash, Uber etc.

[Blazes Boylan]

The RE 650 is a unique case.  A lot of us purchased ours with the intention of modifying the engines.  I'll admit I was pretty upset when I briefly thought my bike was Euro 5, though the degree to which Euro 5 ECUs are completely locked down isn't clear yet.  That being said, there's no real need to change the performance of most modern motorcycles.  If you want to buy a fast cheap bike there are plenty of them that come that way from the factory, Euro 5 or no.  And I seriously doubt Theresa May (or her ilk) cares all that much about what kind of mirrors Uncle Stu puts on his Triumph Bobber, so long as they're functional.  Fillingham's video is boilerplate YouTube, full of the usual hysteria, ignorance, and click baiting. 

The internal combustion engine is in it's last days, and probably should be.  There will still be millions of gas-powered motorcycles available, though finding affordable gas in twenty-five years will be all but impossible, not to mention the restrictions that might be put on their use.  I can't imagine what electric or fuel-celled motorcycles will be like by then, but they'll certainly be interesting.  I'll be approaching ninety, so I'll probably be appreciating them from the sidelines.

[greentrumpet]

My understanding, (not from watching Fillingham, there isn't enough time in my life for that) is that legislation is being passed to pave the way for the anticipated self driving vehicles.  The easiest way for an autonomous vehicle to avoid hitting other vehicles, is for every vehicle on the road to be broadcasting its position, speed and direction, even, and perhaps especially, those that are piloted by humans.  A guidance system process this data and look for any "blips" that are relevant to the path they intend to take.

Governments will make it mandatory to include such systems, and illegal to tamper with them.  I imagine that some years from now, the whole system will be no larger than a business card, cheap and readily available to retrofit to our human guided dinosaur bikes.  Of course the side effect of this is, any vehicle will be readily trackable to those with the knowledge and equipment.

That is what the BMF was told verbally (plus mods to avoid emissions tech) but the wording of the proposal is open-ended and says basically any non OE parts on any vehicle. So it could be retrospective which would mean loads of parts in the scrap and a load of small businesses flushed away. I see the sense in wanting to set the rules for the future with electric and self-driving vehicles but ICEs are no longer to be sold new after 2030 so the number of vehicles with these engines will drop over time anyway.

[zimmemr]

The approach of this brave new world makes me glad I'm old.

You and me both. 

[gizzo]

My meatware Youtube filter puts the F into Uncle STU but I've read about the proposal before in Classic bike and on Sump. Maybe 44Teeth will do a vid on it. I'll watch that instead.

These days I think cell phone tracker supply the same info. I can real time track deliveries from UPS, doordash, Uber etc.

I leave my phone at home if I'm planning to go out and be very naughty. Just in case. I wonder whether wrapping it in tinfoil would work?

The approach of this brave new world makes me glad I'm old.

Except there will probably be mandatory life extending drugs for productive members of society by then so you can never get away....

[Mark1971]

Have a look out for the film, The last motorcycle on earth. Its on Amazon. I watched it a while ago and enjoyed it, however its perhaps a pointer of where our world is heading.

[Breezin]

My meatware Youtube filter puts the F into Uncle STU but I've read about the proposal before in Classic bike and on Sump. Maybe 44Teeth will do a vid on it. I'll watch that instead.
I leave my phone at home if I'm planning to go out and be very naughty. Just in case. I wonder whether wrapping it in tinfoil would work?

Except there will probably be mandatory life extending drugs for productive members of society by then so you can never get away....

And they'll encourage the non-productive to ride the remaining motorbikes.  Oh wait... 

[gizzo]

And they'll encourage the non-productive to ride the remaining motorbikes.  Oh wait... 

I'm OK with that...

[north1]

I guess most seem resigned to let it all just happen.  Sad.  Our ancestors had cajones to stand up and protect the rights and freedoms endowed by our Creator.  Lent their own blood no less.  We are just sheep being led to an eventual slaughter.  Over dramatic?  We will see. 

[CPJS]

At the very least do some homework and find  the most effective motocycle action group in your country, join them.
The subs you pay will help fund the people with the desire/ability to fight on your behalf.
I have no time for anyone that complains about loss of freedom/rights and does nothing about. Anything positive you can do will help.
Lecture over.

[NVDucati]

At the very least do some homework and find  the most effective motocycle action group in your country, join them.
The subs you pay will help fund the people with the desire/ability to fight on your behalf.
I have no time for anyone that complains about loss of freedom/rights and does nothing about. Anything positive you can do will help.
Lecture over.

Lecture appreciated.
In the USA _ Join the AMA
https://americanmotorcyclist.com/

[whippers]

The workshop has just eviscerated Uncke Stu once again.  Highly entertaining
https://youtu.be/8IDqTWLFKfY

[iblastoff]

The workshop has just eviscerated Uncke Stu once again.  Highly entertaining
https://youtu.be/8IDqTWLFKfY

lol. stu is just the motorcycle equivalent of "old man yells at cloud" about shit he clearly doesn't know anything about. the entire comment section of stu's video is just frightening. bunch of nutjob "omgz my freedomz!!" crowd.

[Mort]

lol. stu is just the motorcycle equivalent of "old man yells at cloud" about shit he clearly doesn't know anything about. the entire comment section of stu's video is just frightening. bunch of nutjob "omgz my freedomz!!" crowd.

Dammit. You actually posted something I agree with.

Progress happens. Seat belts became mandatory at some point, but you're still allowed to drive an antique car that doesn't have them in most countries. Fuel injection happened, and emissions standards. They didn't go around collecting all the carbureted muscle cars to crush into cubes.

Electric bikes will become the norm within a decade or so. Eventually most gas vehicle production will stop. That's the march of progress. It's not stormtroopers suppressing your rights, it's just the way shit works.

Also, maybe test ride a Zero if you get a chance. They're a lot of fun, and that's with 2nd or 3rd gen tech. By the time they get really refined I bet most people won't miss their internal combustion predecessors.

Though there will always be old men yelling at clouds.

[JessHerbst]

Dammit. You actually posted something I agree with.

Progress happens. Seat belts became mandatory at some point, but you're still allowed to drive an antique car that doesn't have them in most countries. Fuel injection happened, and emissions standards. They didn't go around collecting all the carbureted muscle cars to crush into cubes.

Electric bikes will become the norm within a decade or so. Eventually most gas vehicle production will stop. That's the march of progress. It's not stormtroopers suppressing your rights, it's just the way shit works.

Also, maybe test ride a Zero if you get a chance. They're a lot of fun, and that's with 2nd or 3rd gen tech. By the time they get really refined I bet most people won't miss their internal combustion predecessors.

Though there will always be old men yelling at clouds.

Yep

[justonemore]

Electric bikes will become the norm within a decade or so. Eventually most gas vehicle production will stop. That's the march of progress. It's not stormtroopers suppressing your rights, it's just the way shit works.

Also, maybe test ride a Zero if you get a chance. They're a lot of fun, and that's with 2nd or 3rd gen tech. By the time they get really refined I bet most people won't miss their internal combustion predecessors.

I love big burbling engines BUT after following MotoE (electric bike competition run in conjunction with MotoGP) now look forward to the day I'm riding an electric bike.

[axman88]

My grandfather owned a car.  A car, ... one, in his entire lifetime.  My father owned less than a dozen, and I have already exceeded that number.  But before my grandfather, my ancestors rode the streetcar, or train, rode a horse, or walked.

We've had a lot of fun with our engines in 120 years, and managed to use up the majority of the easily accessible hydrocarbons created over millions of years.  Fighting change politically won't have much impact on the economics of a technology that is fueled by a limited, naturally occurring resource.  Setting aside any environmental concerns, the cost of this limited resource in a world with rising demand must inevitably increase.  The world's population has just about doubled since I bought my first car, a 1963 Olds F-85, back in 1979.  And, personal vehicle ownership is increasing at an even faster rate.

I'm not sure what "rights" people think they have to internal combustion engines, but I don't see how it could have been a right ascribed by either God or by my country's constitution.  And, I dread the impact on the world's resources and gas prices should all the world's 7.7 billion inhabitants decide that they need to exercise their right to own the same 25 or so internal combustion engines that I've managed to collect.

There was considerable resistance to the last big change in personal transportation, which was, in my opinion, much more radical.  https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/01/get-horse-americas-skepticism-toward-first-automobiles/
      https://thetyee.ca/News/2013/03/06/Horse-Dung-Big-Shift/

It turns out that the horse was maybe not so bad.  15 - 20% efficient, much better than a steam engine, and not much worse than my old V8 F-85.

[lucky phil]

Dammit. You actually posted something I agree with.

Progress happens. Seat belts became mandatory at some point, but you're still allowed to drive an antique car that doesn't have them in most countries. Fuel injection happened, and emissions standards. They didn't go around collecting all the carbureted muscle cars to crush into cubes.

Electric bikes will become the norm within a decade or so. Eventually most gas vehicle production will stop. That's the march of progress. It's not stormtroopers suppressing your rights, it's just the way shit works.

Also, maybe test ride a Zero if you get a chance. They're a lot of fun, and that's with 2nd or 3rd gen tech. By the time they get really refined I bet most people won't miss their internal combustion predecessors.

Though there will always be old men yelling at clouds.

I couldn't disagree more. When the time comes that i'm forced to ride an electric bike I'll find another passion, simple as that. It amazes me all the people choosing to ride a bike/s that are non mainstream or bikes with "character" and at the same time proclaiming the virtues of characterless electric bikes. MotoE is as boring as batshit with riders "wizzing around" on fat overweight poor handling things without any character at all.
All but 1 of my 5 bikes is a twin and the feel and sound of a twin cylinder ICE is a very major part of the enjoyment of riding for me. I don't want to ride something with about as much character as a white good. There's a lot of wokeism involve her with older riders trying to "keep relevant" personally I'm looking forward to the day when an electric vehicle is a practical option as a DD car but from an enthusiasts point of view I'm not interested. As a "transport tool" without an emotional connection an EV's fine with me but as a passion forget it.
Ciao   

[whippers]

I couldn't disagree more. When the time comes that i'm forced to ride an electric bike I'll find another passion, simple as that. It amazes me all the people choosing to ride a bike/s that are non mainstream or bikes with "character" and at the same time proclaiming the virtues of characterless electric bikes. MotoE is as boring as batshit with riders "wizzing around" on fat overweight poor handling things without any character at all.
All but 1 of my 5 bikes is a twin and the feel and sound of a twin cylinder ICE is a very major part of the enjoyment of riding for me. I don't want to ride something with about as much character as a white good. There's a lot of wokeism involve her with older riders trying to "keep relevant" personally I'm looking forward to the day when an electric vehicle is a practical option as a DD car but from an enthusiasts point of view I'm not interested. As a "transport tool" without an emotional connection an EV's fine with me but as a passion forget it.
Ciao   

I agree with the electric bikes comments, the motoE bikes are slower than Moto3 bikes.  However those two final races at Misano were outstanding. Of course there was a race series in the UK on CB500s so anything can produce exciting racing.

[Hoiho]

If we are talking pragmatically; I really think you are better off on a pedal ebike, if all you are doing is a bit of commuting. I put 7000km on mine last year and it’s brilliant at what it’s designed for - no warrant/registration, low entry/running costs and you get a bit of exercise.
 I wouldn’t bother with an eMoto until the range goes up and price comes down, and I don’t see that happening any time soon

[Mort]

If we are talking pragmatically; I really think you are better off on a pedal ebike, if all you are doing is a bit of commuting. I put 7000km on mine last year and it’s brilliant at what it’s designed for - no warrant/registration, low entry/running costs and you get a bit of exercise.
 I wouldn’t bother with an eMoto until the range goes up and price comes down, and I don’t see that happening any time soon

Electric Bicycles were the fastest growing EV market this year. My wife rode a Yamaha one at IMS this year and had nothing but good things to say about it. I think the lines are already starting to blur, though. It's hard to call it an "electric bicycle" when it can do 50MPH. I think the electric bicycle market has a real chance to make motorcycles more mainstream in the future... but they'll be electric bikes.

[ReddingRider]

I haven’t ridden any kind of electric bike/motorcycle, but isn’t it true that whatever the power output of any particular machine, the feel of the power delivery is exactly the same — dead linear?

[north1]

All this EV talk is interesting but seriously.  Our infrastructure now is struggling just to handle the load we are currently requiring.  It is struggling mightily.  Wind and solar going to provide the massive load….laughable.  So let us burn hydrocarbons to produce electricity to ride our bikes….head scratcher.
Nuclear could do it.  Want it in your backyard?  China produces the vast majority of metals and rare earth elements that are needed in batteries, etc.  Sign over your soul to a communist regime?  Not to mention the massive amount of toxic waste produced in battery production and the components needed to make this whole experiment possibly work.  What about the thousands upon thousands of products that are essential to our lives now produced in the refining of hydrocarbons?  The world in which we live, all the products that surround us are hydrocarbon related.  This includes the device you are currently communicating with.  People seem to have no conception of the domino effect of what they are about to do.

[dickim]

Electric Bicycles were the fastest growing EV market this year. My wife rode a Yamaha one at IMS this year and had nothing but good things to say about it. I think the lines are already starting to blur, though. It's hard to call it an "electric bicycle" when it can do 50MPH. I think the electric bicycle market has a real chance to make motorcycles more mainstream in the future... but they'll be electric bikes.

I think your spot on  - in 08 & 10 I did Lecturing secondment in China, Semi-rural outside Nanjing and again in Hefei, and the VAST majority of the traffic was electric bikes, especially in the semi-rural. Even the college had them for transport on and to/from campus.MORE than enough speed & range for the environment, NOT a motorcycle but has it's place - modern day version of the 50cc 2 stroke moped...

[dickim]

Just saw this 😣 am I the ONLY Pom/ Brit  who sees Sinclair C5 which was powered by a Hoover Washing machine motor and.....Pedals

I thought you would be interested in this story I found on MSN: White Motorcycle Concepts Unveils WMC300FR Hybrid Police Scooter

http://a.msn.com/01/en-au/AARxcVi?ocid=se

[JLewis]

I love my traditional vehicles, but after taking around 30 kicks to get my wife's spare Bullet going at 4.00 this morning (it's low and handles way better in snow than my Interceptor) I would've gladly jumped on an electric bike.

[dickim]

I love my traditional vehicles, but after taking around 30 kicks to get my wife's spare Bullet going at 4.00 this morning (it's low and handles way better in snow than my Interceptor) I would've gladly jumped on an electric bike.

😣😣😣😣

[Hoiho]

All this EV talk is interesting but seriously.  Our infrastructure now is struggling just to handle the load we are currently requiring.  It is struggling mightily.  Wind and solar going to provide the massive load….laughable.  So let us burn hydrocarbons to produce electricity to ride our bikes….head scratcher.
Nuclear could do it.  Want it in your backyard?  China produces the vast majority of metals and rare earth elements that are needed in batteries, etc.  Sign over your soul to a communist regime?  Not to mention the massive amount of toxic waste produced in battery production and the components needed to make this whole experiment possibly work.  What about the thousands upon thousands of products that are essential to our lives now produced in the refining of hydrocarbons?  The world in which we live, all the products that surround us are hydrocarbon related.  This includes the device you are currently communicating with.  People seem to have no conception of the domino effect of what they are about to do.

Oil company rep? The world is already on a downward trajectory, if you haven’t noticed.

Over here 82% of our ‘tricity comes from renewable sources and it’s growing…

[north1]

Oil company rep? The world is already on a downward trajectory, if you haven’t noticed.

Over here 82% of our ‘tricity comes from renewable sources and it’s growing…

You are not seeing the forest for the trees.  The refining of hydrocarbons is a step by step basis that has been perfected for decades and the byproducts created are interwoven into our daily lives.  The EV bike or motorcycle you use may be powered by electricity but virtually every component on it is directly or indirectly related to and produced due to hydrocarbons.  Remove a link in that hydrocarbon refining chain and you don’t have a EV vehicle to ride enough though you may have electricity.

[iblastoff]

You are not seeing the forest for the trees.  The refining of hydrocarbons is a step by step basis that has been perfected for decades and the byproducts created are interwoven into our daily lives.  The EV bike or motorcycle you use may be powered by electricity but virtually every component on it is directly or indirectly related to and produced due to hydrocarbons.  Remove a link in that hydrocarbon refining chain and you don’t have a EV vehicle to ride enough though you may have electricity.

no fucking shit, obviously the production process for practically anything today heavily involves all sorts of non-eco-friendly means, whether its tons of water use for clothes or plastics or etc etc. thats because we decided to do this ourselves and almost all of it is based on capitalist means.

this is like trying to call out someone trying to live eco-friendly because they still happen to take a bus that emits fumes. the idea isn't to 100% switch over to all non-hydrocarbon based production in one night. technology improves. designs in lithium ion batteries are constantly being improved to make them more recyclable and extractable of existing minerals, mainly due to increase of demand and *gasp* incoming government regulations *gasp*!!!! there is headway to making batteries metal-free without losing storage and longevity.

hell, even places like china has placed incentives for battery manufacturers to get their materials from recycled parts vs batteries sourced from mined materials. will this completely solve the supply chain issue and/or mining for metals? no. but it all has to start somewhere.

just saying "oh well, things are the way they are because its the way they are! so thats it!" is just a cheap, uninformed opinion.

[Mort]

You are not seeing the forest for the trees.  The refining of hydrocarbons is a step by step basis that has been perfected for decades and the byproducts created are interwoven into our daily lives.  The EV bike or motorcycle you use may be powered by electricity but virtually every component on it is directly or indirectly related to and produced due to hydrocarbons.  Remove a link in that hydrocarbon refining chain and you don’t have a EV vehicle to ride enough though you may have electricity.

The ways things were, the way things are, and the way things are going to be are different worlds. Industries are moving away from petroleum every day.

Unless someone figures out a way to turn lengthy internet diatribes into oil then that movement away from fossil fuels will only accelerate.

I really despise this kind of fatalistic argument. Yes, we've built up an economy around oil. No, it's not impossible to change that. It's not just possible, it's imperative.

[gregrb41]

The ways things were, the way things are, and the way things are going to be are different worlds. Industries are moving away from petroleum every day.

Unless someone figures out a way to turn lengthy internet diatribes into oil then that movement away from fossil fuels will only accelerate.

I really despise this kind of fatalistic argument. Yes, we've built up an economy around oil. No, it's not impossible to change that. It's not just possible, it's imperative.

Quite true. I'm going to start investigating growing hemp commercially 

[north1]

I may be mistaken but I believe the UK is at around 35% on renewable energy production.  As a farmer using equipment to produce food I can tell you that this shift has caused enumerable problems.  Expensive equipment that doesn’t run properly.  Uses more fuel.  Nightmare to work on and a huge expense to keep running.  Older, reliable equipment is selling at astronomical prices because it runs reliably and efficiently.  The environmental regulations have out stripped manufacturers ability to produce reliable equipment.

Working several years in the electrical trade has served to provide me with enough knowledge and practical experience to see firsthand just how fragile and over stressed our electrical infrastructure currently is.  It will take trillions upon trillions of dollars to upgrade and expand it.  We keep churning out greenbacks but I don’t see printing our way out of it.

Not arguing for pollution and continually improving upon the environment in which we live.  However if this is pushed too hard(which IMHO we are) and we forgo capitalism in favor of full blown socialism which some seem intent on, things will not end well.  People will be schooled rather quickly on just how miserable life can be.  Sometimes being older is a blessing.  I don’t want to experience that outcome.  Feel sorry for my children and grandchildren though.

Have nothing against EV transportation.  Everyone should have a choice as to their means to get from point A to B.  Not all of us have the “luxury” of living in urban areas.  Nearest community with amenities to me is 50 miles away.  Yesterday morning it was -22 F and this morning -16.  Last year had several days at -30.  My doctor is actually 211 miles away.  If an EV vehicle can get me to town reliably and safely, charged and back home that would be okay.  My experience tells me we have quite a way to go for that to happen.  Just hoping I am not forced to experiment with it before it is practical and safe.

[gregrb41]

'Expensive equipment that doesn’t run properly.'

Amen to that. Try using E10 in a chainsaw, the twats are hard enough to start with E5.

[Starpeve]

"Sick of the politics" you may be but that is exactly what governments the world over rely on. Nobody pays any attention then before you know it the freedoms you took for granted are a thing of the past.
Yep. It’s the insidious creep of things that do us in.

[Mort]

I may be mistaken but I believe the UK is at around 35% on renewable energy production.  As a farmer using equipment to produce food I can tell you that this shift has caused enumerable problems.  Expensive equipment that doesn’t run properly.  Uses more fuel.  Nightmare to work on and a huge expense to keep running.  Older, reliable equipment is selling at astronomical prices because it runs reliably and efficiently.  The environmental regulations have out stripped manufacturers ability to produce reliable equipment.

Working several years in the electrical trade has served to provide me with enough knowledge and practical experience to see firsthand just how fragile and over stressed our electrical infrastructure currently is.  It will take trillions upon trillions of dollars to upgrade and expand it.  We keep churning out greenbacks but I don’t see printing our way out of it.

Not arguing for pollution and continually improving upon the environment in which we live.  However if this is pushed too hard(which IMHO we are) and we forgo capitalism in favor of full blown socialism which some seem intent on, things will not end well.  People will be schooled rather quickly on just how miserable life can be.  Sometimes being older is a blessing.  I don’t want to experience that outcome.  Feel sorry for my children and grandchildren though.

Have nothing against EV transportation.  Everyone should have a choice as to their means to get from point A to B.  Not all of us have the “luxury” of living in urban areas.  Nearest community with amenities to me is 50 miles away.  Yesterday morning it was -22 F and this morning -16.  Last year had several days at -30.  My doctor is actually 211 miles away.  If an EV vehicle can get me to town reliably and safely, charged and back home that would be okay.  My experience tells me we have quite a way to go for that to happen.  Just hoping I am not forced to experiment with it before it is practical and safe.

I mean, you're wrong that it's moving too fast, but like most of the policymakers you'll be dead before it's apparent that we didn't change things fast enough so who cares, right? But hurr durr socialism is bad. Sigh.

[YellowDuck]

All this EV talk is interesting but seriously.  Our infrastructure now is struggling just to handle the load we are currently requiring.  It is struggling mightily.  Wind and solar going to provide the massive load….laughable.  So let us burn hydrocarbons to produce electricity to ride our bikes….head scratcher.

Indeed, but some really smart heads got scratched, and there have been many well-to-wheels type studies on this.  Considering all components of the system, you can actually save quite a fraction of carbon emissions by doing exactly this (mostly because conversion of hydrocarbons to electricity and then using that electricity in an electric motor is still more efficient than burning the hydrocarbons in an ICE directly), plus implement more effective pollution controls (since controlling pollution from a single powerplant is more efficient than controlling pollution from thousands of vehicles).

This aren't "common sense" kinds of question.  There is math and physics involved, and the answers are already known.