[Raymond]

Hi Karl, I think what I want to do is pare down the existing system but not to a single wire to the spark plug. The bike will need to have front and rear actuated brake lights to pass an MOT test. One person has already suggested to me that the indicators (turn signals) look anachronistic on a mid-20th century bike but they are damned useful. A few years ago I was running a 1970 Triumph TR6 - it probably came out of the factory with signals but they had been removed. It is quite awkward coming up to a right-turn junction where you have to cross the traffic, be prepared to brake, manage the throttle to change down the gears and give a clear hand signal at the same time.

That bike had a diabolical electrical system. The original rectifier was still there resembling a stack of bent tin lids with some green copper wires snaking between them. Needless to say, the charging system didn't work despite fictions offered up by the seller - he had wired the ammeter reverse polarity. Ahem! When I bought that bike I knew nothing about bike electrics but I had to learn and in the end I ripped out everything, one wire at a time, noting where it went to and from. Then simplified and omitted unnecessary elements, and rebuilt the system using tracer wire and 3.9mm bullets. Taught me a lot. Have since re-wired my XS650.

The Bullet is a lot newer and the wiring looks not too bad. If I re-wire the bike it will hopefully be more a case of going through and removing everything I can do without. Such as engine cut out and clutch safety switch . . .

[richard211]

First and foremost, as a quick search of this Forum section's Archive of the term "sprag" should quickly reveal, you would do well to NEVER use that electric start. I mean, don't even look at it! Learn to kickstart it only, and both you and she will be MUCH happier in the long run.

My own "sprag fragging" is described here: https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=26991.0;all

On the the electric start equipped Iron barrel engine would it be safer to turn on the de-compressor, press the electric start switch which would spin the engine over freely, release the de-compressor and let go of the electric start switch once the engine fires up? Objective being that it would be similar as doing a roll start in second gear and popping the clutch?
 
 

[Paul W]

Nope.

Glad to hear it. Not long ago I was shown photos of a modified “hybrid” bike where the owner had modified the front end for better manoeuvrability and I asked him the same question. He hadn’t fully compressed the suspension and when he did so the front wheel fouled against the down tube. It wasn’t usable so it became a scrap yard job!

[Raymond]

On the the electric start equipped Iron barrel engine would it be safer to turn on the de-compressor, press the electric start switch which would spin the engine over freely, release the de-compressor and let go of the electric start switch once the engine fires up? Objective being that it would be similar as doing a roll start in second gear and popping the clutch?

Hmmm. Maybe the safest option as Bilgemaster says is to completely avoid touching that button.

[AzCal Retred]

My 2 pesos:

Kudos on the BB regulator. The OEM Indian units seem to allow battery charging voltage to hover at 16V, soon boiling the battery dry. The BB unit regulates precisely, hovering around 13.5V-14V @ full charge.

Wiring is a weak point on these. The wiring can be really simplified if you move the ignition switch to the LH battery/tool box area and let the AC headlight run continuously, the number of conductors drops precipitously. The ammeter is useful for starting, but an LED indicating point closure would be just as helpful if needed at all. Skip the ammeter & the wiring cleans up fast, use a voltmeter & clock to fill the holes.

I'm ambivalent about scrapping the kill switch. A PB grounding around the points mimics the existing main switch scheme & would require only 1 small wire. A kill PB is useful when laying in the dirt with the throttle pinned open,.

The AC headlight uses an AC regulator and Hi/Lo handlebar switch - 2 wires, L1 & N. An AC compatible LED headlight or diode bridge with smoothing cap would reduce current draw to 3-4 amps max.

Your other wiring is horn & speedo/casquette lighting, & maybe turn signals. A (+) to the horn switch and casquette LED lamps from the battery, a (-) to the casquette for actual ground, mount the horn to the triple clamps near the turn signal. Turn signals are 3 small wires, a (+) from the TS flasher unit to the switch (on-R-off-on-L), then 2 wires back to the LH & RH signals. Speedo illumination is moot, as you end up driving these machines by feel anyway, and night riding is best left to those that still heal rapidly.

The front brake switch is superfluous as is the clutch switch. The rear brake is applied when coming to a stop anyway.

If you are removing the E-start, even more wire disappears. To keep it & increase reliability, ground the solenoid at the toolbox & put a single (+) back from a start PB back to it. You don't need the permissive as the sprag can't "engage" the running engine like a bendix can, anytime engine RPM exceeds sprag speed power transmission stops. My 350ES works flawlessly now that the solenoid is getting full voltage. IF it frags AND you like the ES feature, H's has a (not cheap) kit that really improves the situation parts wise. Other than removing the ES guts & cheaply plugging off the ES starter motor hole, you'd have to buy & fit up a KS(kickstart) inner case.

I have some home-brew PDF's if you are interested in a starting point for a minimized scheme. You can modify as wanted using Microsoft Paint.

Good hunting - ACR -

[Bilgemaster]

On the the electric start equipped Iron barrel engine would it be safer to turn on the de-compressor, press the electric start switch which would spin the engine over freely, release the de-compressor and let go of the electric start switch once the engine fires up? Objective being that it would be similar as doing a roll start in second gear and popping the clutch?

Indeed. The decompressed-start you describe, helping the crank to build up a bit of momentum, also shutting it down with the decompressor and only THEN killing the ignition, running about 800ml of Automatic Transmission Fluid (Type F if possible) in the primary drive instead of the pre-starter recommended level of 420ml, as determined by the outer case's fluid level screw (in order to better bathe the starter sprag assembly), and always, and I do mean ALWAYS having a tip-top battery in fully charged state...All of these are "folk techniques" practiced to hopefully ameliorate the Wrath of Sprag. And you know what? In the end none of them worked for me. In fact, my sprag decided to crap out all by itself one fine day after not having been prodded for weeks!

Also, that's a hearty concurrence from me on that earlier suggestion to pick up a copy of Pete Snidal's superb Bullet Service Manual, which one can do right here: http://www.enfield.20m.com/bullet1.htm

Personally, I've often found my old fashioned printed spiral-bound copy of the Royal Enfield published Spare Parts catalogue  useful, as shown in this FleaBay offering: https://www.ebay.com/itm/190978293959, but I imagine one could get along fine, perhaps even better in many respects, by simply using our Forum host's online versions. It would certainly expedite ordering, and an individual part's "Fitment" notes can be helpful.

Other beguiling Enfield-related literary objects, manuals and guides may be purchased here: https://www.royalenfieldbooks.com/index.html

[Paul W]

The front brake switch is superfluous as is the clutch switch. The rear brake is applied when coming to a stop anyway.

Not correct for U.K. bikes. A non operative front brake light switch would cause it to fail the annual MOT test. All bikes after 1986 are required to have switches on both front and rear brake controls. 

[AzCal Retred]

Raymond is aware of this already.

Raymond @ #15: The bike will need to have front and rear actuated brake lights to pass an MOT test.

[Raymond]

Now have the V5 registration document. Interestingly, this shows date of first registration & date of first registration in the UK as 13/2/2003. So this bike has never been registered anywhere else, which leaves me mystified about having a KPH speedo. But never mind.

Going to go in the garage and start having a look at the wiring. With the eventual objective of removing unneeded stuff such as the clutch switch - what does that do anyway? And in the fullness of time, the starter and associated gubbins.

Thank you all for helpful pointers on simplifying the electrics. Bound to be back with questions . . .

[Paul W]

If you operated the starter motor with the bike in gear, it would perhaps motor forwards unless you disengaged the clutch. Presumably, like on other bikes, the clutch switch isolates the starter motor.

[Raymond]

Thank you Paul. So to guard against people starting in gear and lurching off, it requires the clutch to be pulled every time the starter is used?

As I said, haven't used the starter yet.

[Adrian II]

Only when you're IN gear as far as I can tell. Your 4 speed box might be different, but on my Electra with the 5 speed the neutral warning light switch and the clutch switch were wired in parallel. The neutral light switch would sometimes stick open, meaning I could not use the electric start even in neutral unless I pulled the clutch lever in.

A.

[Raymond]

I see. I'm not too clear on the functionality but that might not matter if I dispense with the whole lot.

Attached show scene in the garage a wee while ago.

[Adrian II]

If losing the E/S you can also tidy things up by fitting the inner primary cover of a kick start model. This involves drilling and tapping the outside of the lhs crankcase for fitting the three K/S model fixing studs, which can be done with the engine in the frame.

If you really want to simplify the electrics for a more basic 12V system, Pete Snidal's manual has a note on how to reconfigure the 4 wire alternator to pump all of its output through the reg/rectifier instead of powering the AC headlight separately. A new Lucas or Sparx alternator will fit in place of the RE (India) item, including the three phase versions, it you wanted to upgrade.

To simplify the electrics further, ditch the coil ignition and fit a Lucas SR1 magneto like the late 50's Redditch Bullets used. These bolt straight on, you just need to find the correct auto advance unit (which is actually the reason for the bulge at the top of the timing cover).

A.

[Raymond]

Thank you for that, Adrian.

On the inner chaincase, my feeling is maybe a bit too drastic, especially for a bike I've barely ridden. Got a feeling it would open a can of worms, all the more so if the crankcases would need to be modified . . . but, and there's always a but, would something like this do?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144084660081?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3Dee43716fe28e4ee58f153c06cdc08253%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D154468183867%26itm%3D144084660081%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c101224.m-1

In case the link don't work, was looking at ebay and found a couple of places supplying Indian made inner chaincases at around £43. Hitchcocks seem to list used items?



BTW, the forum let me make my previous post without having to do a robot test.